is AAR killing progtalk?

[raccoonradio]

>>liberal radio failed

for the libs out there (I'm conservative on most issues, lib-moderate on a couple), at first I was kinda
getting schadenfreude at the idea of AAR failing but I figured maybe one or two hosts of libtalk may catch
on, somewhere. Now it seems that some libtalk hosts like the ones on Jones might do moderately well (but
still lag far behind the numbers of listeners a Limbaugh would have), be it on all-liberal stations or perhaps
shoehorned into one of the supposed conservatalk stations. And I'm actually being tolerant of libtalk:
it should be on the air, not that I'd necessarily listen to it; but it may take awhile before it catches on
the way conservatalk has. And who knows, it may NEVER do that, because there is liberal bias in far
too many other places, so talk radio has become a refuge for those who want the other view.

Sure, have your liberal/prog. talk hosts and yeah, who's to say that someday a Schultz or Hartmann might
have 16 million listeners like Limbaugh does. (Though so far libtalk has had about as much success as the
Republican Party has in Massachusetts.) But the fact is that the owners of the "big" stations didn't
want to put prog. talk on for fear that the ratings would plunge. In some smaller markets, like Prov. RI,
that is just what happened with WHJJ and at this point their lineup is now back to just about all
conservative.

 

[raccoonradio]

>>since he is a republican

some on the Right have said he's a RINO, Republican In Name Only btw

>>the liberal message was simply too confusing

In addition, when I think liberal, I think about the elites in Hollywood and elsewhere; the celebs who "do as I say not as I do", and who are "screwing up America (and Al Franken is #37)" (yeah, I worked in a couple book
titles!). People get a kick out of these celiberals, like Streisand assuming that what she read on the Net was
by Shakespeare, or the "non-violent" Tim Robbins threatening the punch the lights out of a writer who dared
to write about Susan Sarandon's conservative mom...etc. This is why I like shows like Ingraham: "politics,
the culture, media bias"...yes not everyone on the Right is a saint either but somehow conservatalk
has clicked...

 

[raccoonradio]

>>Now the issue of actually selling libtalk to advertisers- that's the problem.

That is a good point. In Boston, the ratings for WKOX and WXKS haven't been all that great and I don't
know about the billing, but the fact that they're getting ready to Rumba should tell you it wasn't that great either. Take into account the lack of good signals, promotion, or local hosts, but still how could AAR fail
in "the progressive capital of America" (as one of their liners say...or will say for the next couple weeks
before the format change).

SPINAL TAP:
"Well, the gig in Boston got cancelled, but not to worry. I understand it's not a big college town."

AIR AMERICA:
"Well, we're losing our station in Boston, but not to worry. I understand it's not a big liberal town."

MASS.: 10 Congressmen, all Dems; 2 senators, both Dems. 95 per cent of legislature, incoming Gov & Lt Gov,
treasurer, auditor, atty general, sec of the Commonwealth, all Dems.

 

[radiophiler]

A couple posts above, someone mentioned they thought some of the libtalk hosts, such as the three at Jones Radio, might do relatively well.
I guess it all depends on what measure of success you use.
Few talk radio hosts have Limbaugh and Hannity numbers. There's really a big drop off, even among conservative talkers, when you get outside of the top three or four hosts.
Ed Schultz is # 10 in listeners, according to Talkers. I'd say that's relative success.
True though: He's the only lib talker in the top 10.

As far as quality lib talk hosts go, if you're in a major market, and could afford your own AM drive local host, you could have a decent lineup of quality hosts with Stephanie Miller 9-noon, Schultz noon-3, Randi Rhodes 3-6 and tape delayed Tom Hartman 6-9pm. At 10 pm you could pick up Lionel from WOR. If you're outside a top-50 market and cost is a factor, just run Bill Press in AM drive.
That's only two current AAR hosts from 6am-1am. Filling weekends might be tough.

 

[Radio_Realist]

Filling weekends might be tough.

That's why "brokered airtime" was invented.

 

[NewsVet]

but still how could AAR fail
in "the progressive capital of America" (as one of their liners say...or will say for the next couple weeks
before the format change).

Of course, when right-wingers like Raccoon are confronted by the fact that progressive talker KPOJ has great ratings in Portland, Oregon, they say, "well of course, Portland is a liberal town.' But the difference between liberal Portland and liberal Boston is that KPOJ has a decent signal and a local morning show...something that the progressive talk stations in the Boston area do NOT have.

 

[evnlee]

Is WWRL will be next to dump Air America in New York City after moving from 1190 AM to 1600 AM?

[EDIT], I don't know why I bother answering but....

WWRL hasn't "moved" anywhere. And its ratings have much improved since it started carrying Air America (despite its terrible signal), so why would it "dump" the network?


[EDIT-inflammatory]

I think the poster was referring to AAR 'moving', not WWRL.

And, speaking of which: what about the flagship station, WLIB? In April Mediaweek, Baloney, and RnR all reported that the Arby's show Air America registering a weak 1.0 share in Los Angeles, an even tinier share in Chicago, and a catastrophic drop in New York City, where flagship station WLIB hemorrhaged nearly half its listenership over the last ratings period, falling from a mediocre 1.4 to a pathetic 0.8 share. That’s smaller than the all-Caribbean format the network replaced when it first launched in New York .

So, you have the #1 market and the flagship station ( which is no longer ) in the tank, and Air America is a 'virtual success'.


http://www.nysun.com/article/28658
http://www.radioandrecords.com/RRRatings/

I love this! Everyone is so new to this board. The All Carribean Format (I love the Italics btw) is the way republicans like to mislead people into thinking WLIB was a tiny bit player in the NY market. Actually the Tropical fomats are very popular in New York and do well- more like a mix or country station in the rest of America.

hmmm. interesting.

I was not aware that bustin' a 1.4 market share in the #1 market is considered 'doing well', considering the amount of $$ and press deciated to propping them up, especially since the Arby's say that 17 other stations do better with a + 2.0 average, compared to the 22 stations that cluster around the drain with everything from a 1.8 and below.


So, I suppose WABC should be very concerned with thier rock solid 3.5 that the Tidy Bowl Network finally fought through the corn and pulled in another staggering 0.8, like the sorry sports networks.

http://www.radioandrecords.com/radiomonitor/ratings/index.jsp

 

[Radio_Realist]

I was not aware that bustin' a 1.4 market share in the #1 market is considered 'doing well',

That share in the #1 market translates to a whopping big number of people. And, if all of those people share common interests in certain products and commodities, it should be no trouble selling airtime to business that want to reach that segment.

If I was selling left-handed fly swatters, and a certain radio station had 100% of the left-handed. fly-swatting population as their listeners, I'd buy time on that station.

 

[evnlee]

I was not aware that bustin' a 1.4 market share in the #1 market is considered 'doing well',

That share in the #1 market translates to a whopping big number of people. And, if all of those people share common interests in certain products and commodities, it should be no trouble selling airtime to business that want to reach that segment.

If I was selling left-handed fly swatters, and a certain radio station had 100% of the left-handed. fly-swatting population as their listeners, I'd buy time on that station.

I stand corrected.

Here's a question: what would have been an acceptable market share to make AAR a 'success' in NYC?

And please, I'm not talking about billing. I'm asking what it takes to be considered 'doing well' in the #1 market.

 

[Radio_Realist]

And please, I'm not talking about billing. I'm asking what it takes to be considered 'doing well' in the #1 market.

Then you are asking a question that cannot be answered. The bottom line is that the main consideration for whether or not a business is "doing well" is the bottom line. Ratings are nothing more than a means to an end, they are not the end itself. If good ratings translate to good billings (as they usually do), then good ratings are good. But if good ratings do not translate to good billings, then they are meaningless.

Ask yourself which would you rather see in your paycheck, ratings points or dollars? It's no different for people operating radio stations. You can't spend ratings points at the grocery store.

 

[NewsVet]

hmmm. interesting.

I was not aware that bustin' a 1.4 market share in the #1 market is considered 'doing well', considering the amount of $$ and press deciated to propping them up, especially since the Arby's say that 17 other stations do better with a + 2.0 average, compared to the 22 stations that cluster around the drain with everything from a 1.8 and below.


So, I suppose WABC should be very concerned with thier rock solid 3.5 that the Tidy Bowl Network finally fought through the corn and pulled in another staggering 0.8, like the sorry sports networks.

http://www.radioandrecords.com/radiomonitor/ratings/index.jsp

We're not supposed to quote ratings or link to ratings on these board, but since you've chosen to do so...
WABC is a 50,000 watt flamethrower that can be heard clearly all over the New York-New Jersey-Connecticut area. Air America is on WWRL, which has a puny signal that can't be heard in much of New York City itself, much less the suburbs, especially after the sun goes down. There's no way you can compare the ratings of these stations if you can't break down the number of WABC listeners in the small area that WWRL covers.

 

[redneckriviera]

Whew--this one's moving fast.

No one in their right mind even tries to compare WWRL with WABC. But, just for fun, we'll extend the challenge again. Swap facilities and then compare the numbers... and the billilng.

Radio_Realist (or ex-realist, since he/she has "moved on to other things") says "liberal" and "progressive" are NOT synonyms because ""Synonym" means "has the exact same meaning."

Naw, that ain't right. Webster's defines synonym as "two or more words of the same language having the same or nearly the same meaning." The American Heritage College edition adds "a word or expression accepted as a substitute for another." Live with it. Progressive and liberal are interchangeable in the context of American politics.

Beyond that, our radio expert from "outside" the industry equates liberals with Marxists. That's nonsense. We do, however, believe in the commonwealth--the notion that we all do better when all of us--not just some of us--do better. And the core of the commonwealth? Public schools, not private; public hospitals, not private; public highways, not private (see the Indiana Toll Road); public parks, public utilities, public libraries--and, yes, public health insurance. Who among us would rather pay an extra $1000 in federal taxes than the $1000 a month premium currently paid for family health insurance? A show of hands?

Not exactly radical ideas... just covering basic needs. No Marxism involved.

 

[evnlee]

Whew--this one's moving fast.

No one in their right mind even tries to compare WWRL with WABC. But, just for fun, we'll extend the challenge again. Swap facilities and then compare the numbers... and the billilng.




NewsVet : WABC is a 50,000 watt flamethrower that can be heard clearly all over the New York-New Jersey-Connecticut area. Air America is on WWRL, which has a puny signal that can't be heard in much of New York City itself, much less the suburbs, especially after the sun goes down.

So we cant compare WABC to WWRL because the signal is weak and you can't hear it in all the 5 boroughs.

But, Err America's flagship WLIB had 10,000 watts, could be heard clearly during the day all over the city, and had 30,000 watts pm, and what was the result?

The kicked AAR right out the door.

Since they landed on a rimshotter, I guess that gives the apologistsas a one way ticket on the AAR "excuse caboose' while advertisers choo choo choose not to do business with these losers.

 

[NewsVet]

So we cant compare WABC to WWRL because the signal is weak and you can't hear it in all the 5 boroughs.

But, Err America's flagship WLIB had 10,000 watts, could be heard clearly during the day all over the city, and had 30,000 watts pm, and what was the result?

The kicked AAR right out the door.

Since they landed on a rimshotter, I guess that gives the apologistsas a one way ticket on the AAR "excuse caboose' while advertisers choo choo choose not to do business with these losers.

Newsflash. The Arbitron ratings aren't for "the city." They're for the market, which includes vast areas of the suburbs where WLIB's directional signal can't be heard at all, much less "clearly." And WLIB can't be heard "all over the city," either. I used to live in Manhattan and couldn't get it clearly in my apartment. It came in OK (in the city) when I rented a car, but most people in the city don't have cars. But WABC came in loud and clear in that apartment, just the way it comes in all over the area (unlike both WLIB and WWRL). AM signals have a tough time in NYC, what with all those tall buildings filled with electronic equipment, etc. 50,000 watt flamethrowers like WABC can blast through all that. 10,000 watt directionals have a much tougher time of it.

 

[NewsVet]

AM signals have a tough time in NYC, what with all those tall buildings filled with electronic equipment, etc. 50,000 watt flamethrowers like WABC can blast through all that. 10,000 watt directionals have a much tougher time of it.

Just thought of something that i forgot to mention in the above.

EVERY AM station in the New York City market with better ratings than WWRL has 50,000 watts of power. EVERY one. WINS, WABC, WFAN, WCBS, WOR, and WADO. ALL have 50,000 watts. And they all have much better dial positions than WWRL's 1600.

I'm actually surprised that 'RL is doing as well as it is, so soon after picking up Air America. It's gone from a 0.0 share to 0.8, despite its lousy signal and equally lousy dial position -- and either beats or ties three OTHER 50,000 watt stations. Meanwhile, WLIB has lost half its share since parting ways with Air America.

 

[Radio_Realist]

Beyond that, our radio expert from "outside" the industry equates liberals with Marxists. That's nonsense. We do, however, believe in the commonwealth--the notion that we all do better when all of us--not just some of us--do better. And the core of the commonwealth? Public schools, not private; public hospitals, not private; public highways, not private (see the Indiana Toll Road); public parks, public utilities, public libraries--and, yes, public health insurance. Who among us would rather pay an extra $1000 in federal taxes than the $1000 a month premium currently paid for family health insurance? A show of hands?

There is what killed liberal talk radio in New York City. It wasn't the crappy signal, it was talk show hosts who spouted nonsense like I have quoted above. If people really wanted to hear such condescending crap, then they'd tune in liberal talk radio. And if there was a market full of people who wanted to hear such crap, then one of the 50,000 watt stations would have picked it up. After all, New York was the state that elected a socialist carpetbagger from Arkansas as their Senator.

But even those who want the government to take care of them cradle to grave have trouble accepting the doublethink required to listen on a regular basis to a talk show host who attempts to sell forced collectivism (which was such a whopping success in the Soviet Union) and call it "commonwealth".

As long as Winston Smith and the Ministry of Truth are writing the distortions of reality that the liberals call "progressive", and people with such smarmy disdain for everyone who isn't them (like the individual I quoted) are speaking those lies into the microphones, there's not going to be enough people who find such programming entertaining to make it a viable radio format.

The problem is, to be able to swallow such "black is white" doublespeak, one must either be in denial or not terribly interested in thinking as a leisure activity. Therefore, the people who would vote for that Arkansas carpetbagger aren't interested in hearing anyone talk about her socialist and Marxist ideas on the radio. They're too busy listening to Opie and Anthony, or trying to get the government to buy them a satellite radio so they can listen to Howard Stern.

 

[evnlee]

So we cant compare WABC to WWRL because the signal is weak and you can't hear it in all the 5 boroughs.

But, Err America's flagship WLIB had 10,000 watts, could be heard clearly during the day all over the city, and had 30,000 watts pm, and what was the result?

The kicked AAR right out the door.

Since they landed on a rimshotter, I guess that gives the apologistsas a one way ticket on the AAR "excuse caboose' while advertisers choo choo choose not to do business with these losers.

Newsflash. The Arbitron ratings aren't for "the city." They're for the market, which includes vast areas of the suburbs where WLIB's directional signal can't be heard at all, much less "clearly." And WLIB can't be heard "all over the city," either. I used to live in Manhattan and couldn't get it clearly in my apartment. It came in OK (in the city) when I rented a car, but most people in the city don't have cars. But WABC came in loud and clear in that apartment, just the way it comes in all over the area (unlike both WLIB and WWRL). AM signals have a tough time in NYC, what with all those tall buildings filled with electronic equipment, etc. 50,000 watt flamethrowers like WABC can blast through all that. 10,000 watt directionals have a much tougher time of it.

News VET, what kind of 'vet' are you?

I can provide numerous press articles praising WLIB's signal when they took over as AAR's format.

Tall buildings? C'mon. It's soil conductivity ( and water ) where am is concerned.

You cannot on one hand praise WLIB for booting off the 'Caribbean Format' and giving AAR a chance, and then blame the same signal for booting AAR off to give something else a chance that may bring in more $$$$. ( a nod to RR here )

The Arby's also factor in your 'suburbs', look again. I would include the proof, but I tire of having my entries 'modified' by the 'moderators'.

 

[evnlee]

There is what killed liberal talk radio in New York City. It wasn't the crappy signal, it was talk show hosts who spouted nonsense like I have quoted above. If people really wanted to hear such condescending crap, then they'd tune in liberal talk radio. And if there was a market full of people who wanted to hear such crap, then one of the 50,000 watt stations would have picked it up.

'nuff said!

 

[evnlee]

So we cant compare WABC to WWRL because the signal is weak and you can't hear it in all the 5 boroughs.

But, Err America's flagship WLIB had 10,000 watts, could be heard clearly during the day all over the city, and had 30,000 watts pm, and what was the result?

The kicked AAR right out the door.

Since they landed on a rimshotter, I guess that gives the apologistsas a one way ticket on the AAR "excuse caboose' while advertisers choo choo choose not to do business with these losers.

Newsflash. The Arbitron ratings aren't for "the city." They're for the market, which includes vast areas of the suburbs where WLIB's directional signal can't be heard at all, much less "clearly." And WLIB can't be heard "all over the city," either. I used to live in Manhattan and couldn't get it clearly in my apartment. It came in OK (in the city) when I rented a car, but most people in the city don't have cars. But WABC came in loud and clear in that apartment, just the way it comes in all over the area (unlike both WLIB and WWRL). AM signals have a tough time in NYC, what with all those tall buildings filled with electronic equipment, etc. 50,000 watt flamethrowers like WABC can blast through all that. 10,000 watt directionals have a much tougher time of it.

News VET, what kind of 'vet' are you?

I can provide numerous press articles praising WLIB's signal when they took over as AAR's format.

Tall buildings? C'mon. It's soil conductivity ( and water ) where am is concerned.

You cannot on one hand praise WLIB for booting off the 'Caribbean Format' and giving AAR a chance, and then blame the same signal for booting AAR off to give something else a chance that may bring in more $$$$. ( a nod to RR here )

The Arby's also factor in your 'suburbs', look again. I would include the proof, but I tire of having my entries 'modified' by the 'moderators'.

NV,

By this I meant that WLIB was touted in many press sources 3 years ago as having a 'good' signal, one that would be able to compete with the big dawgs. I dont want you to think I dont realize the AM limitations, such as landscape,buildings and the like.

Here's a question: what does Williamsburg register as? The # 1 market? Or a suburb of NYC? ???

 

[country24]

"You want to swap WRKO and/or WTKK in Boston for the barely audible rim-shot & pea-shooter progressive talk has there? Or how about swapping WMAL for WWRC in Washington? Think Rush would do as well on 1260 in DC? Gimme a break."

If Rush or Sean, without their name recognition and reputations, were on low rated stations with a poor signals, it wouldn't be long before they'd move up to better stations. And in a few years they'd be back on WABC. That's the way talent moves to the top. Not by starting on a top rated full power station.

Rush did start his talk show career on 50 kw KFBK in Sacramento (Mkt #26). But he had previously been successful in Top 40 radio in Pittsburg and got in on the ground floor of talk radio before there was a lot of competition in the area.

Sean started at a college station then went to a 10 kw day 250 watt night rim-shot in Huntsville AL (Mkt #115). Then he was in Atlanta for a while.

And I'm pretty sure thay didn't start with 15 or 20 million listeners. They worked their way up. That's how they got on those big stations.