Is Bad HD-1 Programming a valid objection to HD radio?

[hipporadio]

NO, Mr. Inspector, Tom’s view is ANYTHING but “elitist”—in fact YOURS IS, as a current apologist for what passes as passé “corporate radio”... It is indicative of corporate radio’s self-serving attack on a legitimate critique... One you’d be best-served to abide! In decades past, I WAS A FAN—A big fan—NO LONGER ...Your industry has “lost it”! Tom no doubt, feels the same... I know this because I shared his Chicago address a few decades ago, and witnessed the FINE radio there in another era.

You come into this forum and attack this gentile man—who admittedly is more a listener than a participant...SHAME! He has been witness to more of the best [and worst] than I have suspect have you! Admittedly, he is fairly eclectic—enjoying his music collection thru a WELL ENGINEERED Part 15 AM transmitter that he lovingly-built and processed –HOOREY! Yet, he is no-doubt—a perfectionist, and entitled to his opinion. He may be every bit as savvy as you! I learned LONG-AGO to RESPECT the opinions of those who, for some reason evaded – but appreciated our industry!

After reading DOZENS of his polite posts, I have concluded that Tom is every-bit the consummate radio-lover that are we... and we are well-served by his visitation here. His critique of IBOC on AM probably bears more providence then does mine! It is borne from a long-withstanding technical servitude that goes back to an impressive technical EDUCATION... Did YOU or I have one of those, or did we merely-acquire the credentials along the way?

 

[LinoNYC]

NO, Mr. Inspector, Tom’s view is ANYTHING but “elitist”—in fact YOURS IS, as a current apologist for what passes as passé “corporate radio”... It is indicative of corporate radio’s self-serving attack on a legitimate critique... One you’d be best-served to abide! In decades past, I WAS A FAN—A big fan—NO LONGER ...Your industry has “lost it”! Tom no doubt, feels the same... I know this because I shared his Chicago address a few decades ago, and witnessed the FINE radio there in another era.

You come into this forum and attack this gentile man—who admittedly is more a listener than a participant...SHAME! He has been witness to more of the best [and worst] than I have suspect have you! Admittedly, he is fairly eclectic—enjoying his music collection thru a WELL ENGINEERED Part 15 AM transmitter that he lovingly-built and processed –HOOREY! Yet, he is no-doubt—a perfectionist, and entitled to his opinion. He may be every bit as savvy as you! I learned LONG-AGO to RESPECT the opinions of those who, for some reason evaded – but appreciated our industry!

After reading DOZENS of his polite posts, I have concluded that Tom is every-bit the consummate radio-lover that are we... and we are well-served by his visitation here. His critique of IBOC on AM probably bears more providence then does mine! It is borne from a long-withstanding technical servitude that goes back to an impressive technical EDUCATION... Did YOU or I have one of those, or did we merely-acquire the credentials along the way?

You come into this forum and attack this gentile man—who admittedly is more a listener than a participant...SHAME!

Oh brother,what a crock.

I chose not to respond to Mr Wells comments, which were aimed equally in my direction because I've noted that he carries the 'sanctimony gene" -he also seems of the impression that he is the only one around here with an engineeing license.

His remarks commenced with:

I'm happy that you are still being served by radio. With so few stations having the courage to provide "gourmet" listening,
What other areas of preference and taste do you feel should be dictated by lowest-common denominator?

Mr Wells takes swamp dittys by hillbillys as his brand of "gourmet" that's his choice, it doesn't imbue him with "gourmet" tastes.

Clouseau's counter points were entirely warranted, you however are up to your stock-and-trade in keeping with your role as a gnat.

Lino

 

[Tom Wells]

Dear Lino,

I've pointed out several times I never got the ANY FCC license, I was too late coming along to test for the 1st Class.
I did graduate from a very old radio engineering school, that all.

Swamp ditties are only the favor of interesting radio that I am able listen to here these past few weeks.
Today I return to Chicago.

Sorry if I sound sanctimonious. I really do respect your position and experience.

I'm really much too working class to ever acheive elitism.
Those who must get dirty and greasy by trade and/or cut up working on mechanical equipment will
never be the country club set you must think I aspire to.
I try to make the point that there ARE radio stations I enjoy, and can't be the only one who listens.
Just not many of them, and they are not walking in lockstep with what the "research" shows to test well.

Again I hold up WFMU as one of the best examples of good radio.

Please tell us how you do or don't enjoy this station.

I've been dealing with a particularly bad customer these past few weeks, and perhaps my frustration has left a bad flavor in
my postings, I apologize if this is the case.
I'm trying to be emphatic, not sanctimonious.

It is safe respond to my comments, I am civilized and not given to attacks.

 

[LinoNYC]

Dear Lino,

I've pointed out several times I never got the ANY FCC license, I was too late coming along to test for the 1st Class.
I did graduate from a very old radio engineering school, that all.

Swamp ditties are only the favor of interesting radio that I am able listen to here these past few weeks.
Today I return to Chicago.

Sorry if I sound sanctimonious. I really do respect your position and experience.

I'm really much too working class to ever acheive elitism.
Those who must get dirty and greasy by trade and/or cut up working on mechanical equipment will
never be the country club set you must think I aspire to.
I try to make the point that there ARE radio stations I enjoy, and can't be the only one who listens.
Just not many of them, and they are not walking in lockstep with what the "research" shows to test well.

Again I hold up WFMU as one of the best examples of good radio.

Please tell us how you do or don't enjoy this station.

I've been dealing with a particularly bad customer these past few weeks, and perhaps my frustration has left a bad flavor in
my postings, I apologize if this is the case.
I'm trying to be emphatic, not sanctimonious.

It is safe respond to my comments, I am civilized and not given to attacks.

Hello Tom, I do empathize with your situation -it's allway a shame when a talented individual has to put up with a s-theel.

The license situation in my case is a good example of wasted time and effort.

For laughs:

With alot of textbooks, an early Hp calculator and coaching from two NBC guys I'd knwon since the Hullabaloo Show, I got a First-Class ticket at seventeen. The joke here was that my only studio experience had been as a child actor in front of the cameras. Nothing came of that one, as you probably know it's now worthless.


Next: Commercial HVAC took almost three years of partime trade class to get this. My Brother got two Masters in less time.

Finally we have: High Pressure Boiler (operating). While in collage, I volunteered at my old elementary school. The custodian convinced me that I need a fallback to my theater career and that I should consider being a custodian Engineer. To cut to the chase, it involved a no-show "job" for two years (kicking back salary) and a written and practical exam which were legitimate (I think).

Blew all of this to work 80hr-7day weeks, get a Local 1 IATSE card and decided after 12 years..no thanks.


I can atleast say that I know what hard work is. The irony is that one phone call to a stockbroker back in the early 1990's negated the need for any of that hoop-jumping.

I try to make the point that there ARE radio stations I enjoy, and can't be the only one who listens.
Just not many of them, and they are not walking in lockstep with what the "research" shows to test well.

-Same here, these days almost none are commercial stations.

I used to enjoy DX'ing but gradually all the new authorizations during the '90s filled the dial with hash and nowadays the internet let's me hear stations from such places as Thailand (have friends from there).

Hope your next gig is a breeze.

Regards, Lino

 

[hipporadio]

Mr Wells takes swamp dittys by hillbillys as his brand of "gourmet" that's his choice, it doesn't imbue him with "gourmet" tastes.

Clouseau's counter points were entirely warranted, you however are up to your stock-and-trade in keeping with your role as a gnat.

Lino

Are you capable of a post here that doesn’t depend on personal attack and sarcastic invective? I doubt it! ...You contribute little else. If I were employed in “damage control” at iBiquity HQ, and reading your posts here – I’d be screaming “SHUT UP!”... If I were moderating this board – I’d BAN YOU!

So Bob Savage is little-more than a soul that speed-up Gilbert O’Sullivan songs in the 70s in Hackensack, NJ and now makes a living from church donations; Tom Wells is some cultural degenerate for his listening to AM “hillbilly music” while on a business trip to the Bayou; and Hippo is just “a gnat”... Are you proud of this low-base you have chosen to publish here? I’m happy that you displayed the initiative to get a “First-Phone” at age 17 [mine came at 21], but WHAT have you done with this technical enlightenment? ...Fallen victim to supporting an outrageous technology VERY-FEW are purchasing at the retail level and promises to doom what is left of AM radio? I don’t know WHY I continue to post here, and deal with the small-minded/small-person attacks from those such as yourself... I guess it’s a committal to a simple opinion—one that WILL bear-relevance in a final tally.

 

[LinoNYC]

The hippo, as usual drops another load:

Are you capable of a post here that doesn’t depend on personal attack and sarcastic invective? I doubt it! ...You contribute little else. If I were employed in “damage control” at iBiquity HQ, and reading your posts here – I’d be screaming “SHUT UP!”... If I were moderating this board – I’d BAN YOU!

In many areas of the country AM radio now has less than 10% of listeners.

In all areas the median demos are well over 50.

Try find any number of AM listeners under 40.

In nyc market #1 All but one of the sub-50K AM's are now, brokered, religion, combination of both. None have any ratings.

Three of the 50K's are vanity..no ratings there either.

The top N-T has the oldest listeners in market, rents out much of it's weekend, and it's recent hires are a 79 and 67 year old (who sound every day of it).

The second NT has the second oldest listeners, rents much of it's weekends, takes money to carry some of what it clears. It has also been letting people go recently.

Both bill less than half of the top All News (WINS) in fact, there are only 3 AM's that can be considered long-term healthy: WINS, WCBS-am, WFAN.

Many of the major AM have co-owned FM's running iboc and already WINS is on 102.7's hd2. Look for more of that soon.

AM is dying because it's audio is not competitive, it doesn't matter how good the receiver you and I have, the public has crap and it has poisned their opinion of AM.

You and the rest of the naysayers offer what?, put on some reverb get a "boss jock" and play the oldies.

That, and everything else has been tried these past 30 years.

IBOC may be the Faustian Bargain offering a chance for better audio in exchange for truncated coverage, but that's the deal.

If it fails, you know the alternative.

Lino

 

[SUPERCASTER]

LinoNYC said about HD radio:

If it fails, you know the alternative

Yes. Better, more interference free High Fidelity reception, and many more "stations between the stations" just as as before HD radio. How wonderful! I can't wait.

 

[LinoNYC]

LinoNYC said about HD radio:

If it fails, you know the alternative

Yes. Better, more interference free High Fidelity reception, and many more "stations between the stations" just as as before HD radio. How wonderful! I can't wait.

Right Ol' Sup! But you better like religion and speak a foreign language to enjoy it.

Lino

 

[SUPERCASTER]

LinoNYC said about HD radio:

If it fails, you know the alternative

Yes. Better, more interference free High Fidelity reception, and many more "stations between the stations" just as as before HD radio. How wonderful! I can't wait.

Right Ol' Sup! But you better like religion and speak a foreign language to enjoy it.

Lino

More dogma, bias, and nonsense.

Definition of dogma:

c: a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/dogma

What makes you think that HD Radio will reduce or eliminate specialty, religion, ethnic and foreign language programming from the airwaves?

It is likely that HD radio broadcasters will turn to more minority, ethnic and religious programming to cover the increased HD operating expenses and fill the additional HD channels. With the reduced coverage, increased interference, increased competition (more stations such as HD2, 3 etc.) lower analog fidelity, and the digital channel jamming HD radio causes, it is MORE LIKELY that all broadcast stations will desperately turn to any sources of additional revenue. With the HD radio caused loss of lucrative suburban coverage and loss of commuter listeners, radio broadcasters will be left with listenership, coverage and marketing essentially reduced to the city of license.

 

[LinoNYC]

LinoNYC said about HD radio:

If it fails, you know the alternative

Yes. Better, more interference free High Fidelity reception, and many more "stations between the stations" just as as before HD radio. How wonderful! I can't wait.

Right Ol' Sup! But you better like religion and speak a foreign language to enjoy it.

Lino

More dogma, bias, and nonsense.

Definition of dogma:

c: a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/dogma

What makes you think that HD Radio will reduce or eliminate specialty, religion, ethnic and foreign language programming from the airwaves?

It is likely that HD radio broadcasters will turn to more minority, ethnic and religious programming to cover the increased HD operating expenses and fill the additional HD channels. With the reduced coverage, increased interference, increased competition (more stations such as HD2, 3 etc.) lower analog fidelity, and the digital channel jamming HD radio causes, it is MORE LIKELY that all broadcast stations will desperately turn to any sources of additional revenue. With the HD radio caused loss of lucrative suburban coverage and loss of commuter listeners, radio broadcasters will be left with listenership, coverage and marketing essentially reduced to the city of license.

Sup, you're grasping at straws here,let it go.

Lino

 

[clouseau]

What makes you think that HD Radio will reduce or eliminate specialty, religion, ethnic and foreign language programming from the airwaves?

I don't think he said that. He said that without help, the vast majority of AM broadcasters will be driven to sell out or carry specialty, religion, ethnic and foreign language programming. I think that might well be true.

It is likely that HD radio broadcasters will turn to more minority, ethnic and religious programming to cover the increased HD operating expenses and fill the additional HD channels.

I would agree to an extent. And while you're trying to get your "Additioanl expenses" dig in there, IS RENTING OUT AN ETHNIC SUBCHANNEL BAD? There have always been ethnic programs and to a lesser extent stations. These formats deserve outlets. The concern as I see it is that with the now substandard AM audio, the entire AM band may well become a vast wasteland of this stuff. Ala Short Wave.

With the reduced coverage, increased interference, increased competition (more stations such as HD2, 3 etc.) lower analog fidelity, and the digital channel jamming HD radio causes,

Virtually EVERYTHING you put forth in that last sentence is junk,IMHO, but let's just agree to disagree and get by the political rhetoric and get to the actual point.

it is MORE LIKELY that all broadcast stations will desperately turn to any sources of additional revenue. With the HD radio caused loss of lucrative suburban coverage and loss of commuter listeners, radio broadcasters will be left with listenership, coverage and marketing essentially reduced to the city of license.

OK, the whole paragraph is "that foolishness". Let me rewrite a question and answer it.

MODIFIED.<Is> it MORE LIKELY that all broadcast stations will desperately turn to any sources of additional revenue.

I think so. I'd be GLAD to see additional ethnic choices if they are viable. And I think you'll see that more of them will come on board.

As for reduced coverage, maybe a little on FM. The Mantra of "It creates interference" is a little hard for me to give a lot of credence. I live in S. Texas in the land of Tropo and the like. Do I think we should allocate stations based on tropo? No. The radio landscape has changed a lof in 15 years. There's translators all over the place. Around where I am, some stations have powered way up. Others have powered way down. MAANY have moved in. 80-90's have been built. I have far less DX, but far MORE choices.

It's not a bad thing.

Clouseau

 

[SUPERCASTER]

LinoNYC said about HD radio:

If it fails, you know the alternative

Yes. Better, more interference free High Fidelity reception, and many more "stations between the stations" just as as before HD radio. How wonderful! I can't wait.

Right Ol' Sup! But you better like religion and speak a foreign language to enjoy it.

Lino

More dogma, bias, and nonsense.

Definition of dogma:

c: a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/dogma

What makes you think that HD Radio will reduce or eliminate specialty, religion, ethnic and foreign language programming from the airwaves?

It is likely that HD radio broadcasters will turn to more minority, ethnic and religious programming to cover the increased HD operating expenses and fill the additional HD channels. With the reduced coverage, increased interference, increased competition (more stations such as HD2, 3 etc.) lower analog fidelity, and the digital channel jamming HD radio causes, it is MORE LIKELY that all broadcast stations will desperately turn to any sources of additional revenue. With the HD radio caused loss of lucrative suburban coverage and loss of commuter listeners, radio broadcasters will be left with listenership, coverage and marketing essentially reduced to the city of license.

Sup, you're grasping at straws here,let it go. :'(

Lino

I'd never bother wrestling your straws away from you. Cheer up, you may keep them all.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

What makes you think that HD Radio will reduce or eliminate specialty, religion, ethnic and foreign language programming from the airwaves?

I don't think he said that. He said that without help, the vast majority of AM broadcasters will be driven to sell out or carry specialty, religion, ethnic and foreign language programming. I think that might well be true.

Answer: If you are saying HD radio is no help, I agree.

It is likely that HD radio broadcasters will turn to more minority, ethnic and religious programming to cover the increased HD operating expenses and fill the additional HD channels.

I would agree to an extent. And while you're trying to get your "Additioanl expenses" dig in there, IS RENTING OUT AN ETHNIC SUBCHANNEL BAD? There have always been ethnic programs and to a lesser extent stations. These formats deserve outlets. The concern as I see it is that with the now substandard AM audio, the entire AM band may well become a vast wasteland of this stuff. Ala Short Wave.

Answer: I never said religious or ethnic programming was bad. Lino seemed to think so. He expressed some sort of impending doom.
As for the "now substandard AM audio" it is HD radio that is responsible for cutting AM analog fidelity in half in order to accomodate the additional HD digital signals.

With the reduced coverage, increased interference, increased competition (more stations such as HD2, 3 etc.) lower analog fidelity, and the digital channel jamming HD radio causes,

Virtually EVERYTHING you put forth in that last sentence is junk,IMHO, but let's just agree to disagree and get by the political rhetoric and get to the actual point.

Apparently everything you disagree with you just dismiss as "junk".

it is MORE LIKELY that all broadcast stations will desperately turn to any sources of additional revenue. With the HD radio caused loss of lucrative suburban coverage and loss of commuter listeners, radio broadcasters will be left with listenership, coverage and marketing essentially reduced to the city of license.

OK, the whole paragraph is "that foolishness". Let me rewrite a question and answer it.

MODIFIED.<Is> it MORE LIKELY that all broadcast stations will desperately turn to any sources of additional revenue.

I think so. I'd be GLAD to see additional ethnic choices if they are viable. And I think you'll see that more of them will come on board.

Answer: I'm glad you agree.

As for reduced coverage, maybe a little on FM. The Mantra of "It creates interference" is a little hard for me to give a lot of credence. I live in S. Texas in the land of Tropo and the like. Do I think we should allocate stations based on tropo? No. The radio landscape has changed a lof in 15 years. There's translators all over the place. Around where I am, some stations have powered way up. Others have powered way down. MAANY have moved in. 80-90's have been built. I have far less DX, but far MORE choices.

It's not a bad thing.

Answer: I agree, more choices are a good thing, as long as the choices you previously had are not taken away by unnecessary new HD radio generated digital interference.

Clouseau

 

[clouseau]

Answer: If you are saying HD radio is no help, I agree.

Cute. When you have nothing to say, make a funny.

As for the "now substandard AM audio" it is HD radio that is responsible for cutting AM analog fidelity in half in order to accomodate the additional HD digital signals.

As I'm sure you know, I was referring to the improved audio of today such as FM and CD's as opposed to AM fidelity from the 40's. AMHD analog audio is capable to 8KHz I'm told. I believe Tom poseted about the improved fidelity on ANALOG in Chicago. Obviously HD audio is much improved. Broadcasters seem to have a couple of analog choices and they have made them. You seem to disagree.

Apparently everything you disagree with you just dismiss as "junk".

Not at all. However It's pretty hard to not just dismiss a tirade or garbage like you posted there as anything less. Why not just go back to IBUZZ, Iniquity, Defective, destructive, Titanic 2000 of Broadcasting as well. Sorry, It just isn't worth dealing with.

As for reduced coverage, maybe a little on FM. The Mantra of "It creates interference" is a little hard for me to give a lot of credence. I live in S. Texas in the land of Tropo and the like. Do I think we should allocate stations based on tropo? No. The radio landscape has changed a lof in 15 years. There's translators all over the place. Around where I am, some stations have powered way up. Others have powered way down. MANY have moved in. 80-90's have been built. I have far less DX, but far MORE choices.

It's not a bad thing.

Answer: I agree, more choices are a good thing, as long as the choices you previously had are not taken away by unnecessary new HD radio generated digital interference.

Oh I get it.

So
More choices because of translators that take away distant station's reception are OK.
More choices because of new FM stations that take away reception of existing out of market choices is Ok.
And
More Choices because of Stations increasing power that take away existing reception is OK.

BUT, if we use HD technology to increase choices which clearly does far less to take away anything that the other scenarios - that's Bad.

Ya Know Sup' all your concocted techincal objections and interference "The Sky is fallin" garbage and penetration stuff and High operating Costs and uncompelling content is just a smoke screen for what you wrote in another thread.

You don't like the way it's marketed.

I'm done with this.

Clouseau

 

[SUPERCASTER]

clouseau said:

Oh I get it.

Obviously, you don't, at all.