Is Country Music Dead Yet?

[DJboutit2]

Is country music dead yet hardly any big cities 500k people or more have a country station that has good ratings/numbers. Country music does not seem to make the top billboard charts so how long till country music will totally be dead I say 3 to 5 years.<P ID="signature">______________
Radio Pirates Forum http://radiopirates.ny-cp.net/index.phpmforum=radiopirates
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[Wazzie]

I was going to respond to this post. Then I saw the writers http addresses.
'Nuff said.<P ID="signature">______________
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[radioboy]

> I was going to respond to this post. Then I saw the writers
> http addresses.
> 'Nuff said.
>


LOL!

Bit I'll answer the question: No, it's not dead.

Even on the internet it's going strong. My station stats today show that I've
had 13,231 listeners to the country stream since its inception.

Our local country stations are going strong as well. But neither is #1.<P ID="signature">______________
WJJD The Country Giant Revisited
http://www.live365.com/stations/alanmccall</P>

 

[nwside7725]

Well there has to be music worth listening to in order for the artform to be successful. That has not existed since 1995, generally speaking.

Besides, Country music is the experience of the working person, and the experience of rural U.S. America.

As our industries go from manufacturing and agriculture to a more service-oriented economy, people are trading in pick-ups for Kias and Saturns.

Modern country music does not talk about direct life experience any longer. Nor are there any songs about heroes of the West or of US History.

Drinking songs were in the context of a lost love, where a listener shared the pain of the artist. The listener too had a hard time making ends meet, and might also have been drinking.

Now the songs are just about drinking, but nothing else.

The songs were natural, and perhaps the people pejoratively called rednecks identified with Country music.

But now being called a redneck is glorified. So the music is dumbed down, and grammatical errors are more common.

Country has gone the way of other artforms. It is not the identity with the music. Now it is image. Country music has become mere noise, with little substance.

I swear, if the Country station was at 99 and the soft rock station were at 100 and the rock station were at 98 on the FM dial, the station on 99 would sound exactly as the station on 98 and 100. We've had soft rock and hard rock for a long time now. Now that Country music is no longer country, people just go to the rock stations to get rock and soft rock stations to get soft rock. I guess I know why soft rock rates high, or 'Light AC music'. The so called country station is no longer needed since there are already other rock stations playing rock music. There was a market for Country music, but Country decided to stop being country and to sound like every other format but Country. Now it's dying out. No big surprise there.

I know the Nashville Pop apologists would disagree with me, but your 'Country' audience, if they are smart, gave up radio a long time ago and are depending on CDs and the Internet for Country Music. I say get new gatekeepers or something, because what you are letting in the gate is stinkin' up the house.

 

[middlega]

> Is country music dead yet hardly any big cities 500k people
> or more have a country station that has good
> ratings/numbers.

???

Not sure what you're looking at, I see country holding it's own (or better) vs other non-ethnic formats in a lot of places (Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Washington, Detroit, and Atlanta, just to hit the top 10 markets, never mind going all the way down to the 51-100's).

But I think you also have to be realistic about what constitutes "good" numbers in today's radio environment. As niched as the marketplace is today, it doesn't take a 20 Share to be doing just fine.

I'm not wild about a lot of the music that gets airplay on a lot of country stations, but the numbers aren't bad at all, which is two totally different conversations.

 

[Jay_F]

> Is country music dead yet hardly any big cities 500k people
> or more have a country station that has good
> ratings/numbers. Country music does not seem to make the
> top billboard charts so how long till country music will
> totally be dead I say 3 to 5 years.
>


The new Rascal Flatts CD "Me and My Gang" entered the sales chart not only #1 on the country chart but #1 on the Billboard top 200!

When the #1 selling CD of any type of music is country I would hardly say country is in danger of dying off anytime soon.

There are several country station in larger markets with good ratings. Of course the format generally does the best in smaller and medium sized markets, but it's always been that way, it goes with the territory, after all it's called country music.

Is country music dead yet? Not even close!

 

[RFLA]

I have a few questions?



> Well there has to be music worth listening to in order for
> the artform to be successful. That has not existed since
> 1995, generally speaking.

So what makes the cut off date so cut and dry in 1995? I mean artists are still out there doing country just like the older artists...



>
> Besides, Country music is the experience of the working
> person, and the experience of rural U.S. America.
>
> As our industries go from manufacturing and agriculture to a
> more service-oriented economy, people are trading in
> pick-ups for Kias and Saturns.

Ok most of rural america with television,radio, newspapers, and now the internet want what every other american wants... just human nature.... and the fact that agriculture has higher yields compared to years ago where the people who adapted still farm, those that couldn't are out or doing the service economy...

But still I think country as a whole is still doing most of the same love and hurt singing that it did years ago... albet with more cookie cutter lyrics and less of the "thinking" lyrics of the 1960s and 1970s (like Tom T. Hall)



>
> Modern country music does not talk about direct life
> experience any longer. Nor are there any songs about heroes
> of the West or of US History.

Ok How? Most of country today talks about the same topics it was in 1975.. Love and Hurt ... been like this for ages. I will agree with the heroes of the old west and US history.. but most of the old west songs were made famous by Marty Robbins... and a few others, US history... hum like Johnny Horton's "Battle of New Orleans"? There were a few but I'm not remembering any other than that song right now that was a hit..




>
> Drinking songs were in the context of a lost love, where a
> listener shared the pain of the artist. The listener too had
> a hard time making ends meet, and might also have been
> drinking.
>
> Now the songs are just about drinking, but nothing else.

About Drinking only? More like the Toby Keith song "get drunk and be somebody" who basically is a anthem for the same people the song is presented to, the same people who go to bars to get drunk for no reason other than as a good time?

Brad Paisley had a song called "alcohol" recently.. read the lyrics.. it shares with the listener the same context of stupid stuff we all do when drunk... can't deny that...






>
> The songs were natural, and perhaps the people pejoratively
> called rednecks identified with Country music.
>
> But now being called a redneck is glorified. So the music is
> dumbed down, and grammatical errors are more common.

..and we can thank Jeff Foxworthy for that one Making everyone realize they are rednecks, not the trailer trash that most people stereotype as Rednecks...

Redenecks , blue collar and others all Identified with the themes of country music then and all still do now IMO.



>
> Country has gone the way of other artforms. It is not the
> identity with the music. Now it is image. Country music has
> become mere noise, with little substance.
>
> I swear, if the Country station was at 99 and the soft rock
> station were at 100 and the rock station were at 98 on the
> FM dial, the station on 99 would sound exactly as the
> station on 98 and 100. We've had soft rock and hard rock
> for a long time now. Now that Country music is no longer
> country, people just go to the rock stations to get rock and
> soft rock stations to get soft rock. I guess I know why soft
> rock rates high, or 'Light AC music'. The so called country
> station is no longer needed since there are already other
> rock stations playing rock music. There was a market for
> Country music, but Country decided to stop being country and
> to sound like every other format but Country. Now it's dying
> out. No big surprise there.

Nope, remember that big gate we opened with TV and all? well Country music just picks up influences from everything from rock to pop... I'll admit that the Nashville people are putting image before substance with some... But some coming out, can write, can play, and may not look like that slicked back person as some of the stuff coming out of Nashville right now... But name me a music form that doesn't? Rap has been doing it for years... rock and pop too.. ever hear of american idol?

If we go back to the country from years ago and got rid of all new country, then you'd see the people leave that like the newer country I'd agree, but do you think these people left over could sustain country music in today's money hungry market that is Nashville?



>
> I know the Nashville Pop apologists would disagree with me,
> but your 'Country' audience, if they are smart, gave up
> radio a long time ago and are depending on CDs and the
> Internet for Country Music. I say get new gatekeepers or
> something, because what you are letting in the gate is
> stinkin' up the house.
>


You could call me a Nashville pop apologist or what ever... I listen to all forms of country... Everything from the 1940s on... Yeah some of today's music is more approaching pop than anything called country, but we could have said the same thing about Dolly Parton in the 1970s and 1980s.... Yeah those who prefer the traditional song usually are onto CDs, internet , and classic country stations.. Just like Nashville pop lovers listen to CDs, the internet, and the new country stations for their fix... Country tries to satisfy a wide listening group and sometimes it don't work that way.. because wither side don't like the others music.


I'm just getting tired of people who sometimes close their mind to new things. My way or the highway reasoning.... Listen to some of the country stations in the south... they are mixing the classics with the new country... creating new listeners of older music and hits.. want the nashville pop to change.. Influence them with Johnny Cash and George Jones....even Tom T Hall Don't think getting rid of all the "pop" will somehow sanitize country.. country has followed other styles and formats for years it's been proven time and time again...

I'm sorry if I come off as a jerk but I think everyone needs to be exposed to a lot of the different forms of country and make the decision from there... and keep an eye on Texas country... It's coming into country slowly and is rawer than today's pop.

RFLA

 

[nwside7725]

I have heard some wonderful stations from the south, the most worthwhile being WSM 650, the one station that still gives voice to Country music. Once while stationed in the Carribbean, you better believe I appreciated KWKH as well.

There are good Country stations out there, just few and far between.


I live in a one station market, and am at least happy that there is a two hour show on Sunday night that goes back in time. It's not much, but it's a start. It's the 1-800-in the USA show.


IT is not all doom and gloom, but if the original poster wonders why Country's ratings are low, there are good reasons. Garth has died down, and the Garth wannabes are not doing a good job being like Garth. Before Garth was George Strait, Randy Travis, Ricky Skaggs, Dwight YOakum, Clint Black, and Alan Jackson came in about the same time as Garth. Before Garth were the Judds, Highway 101, Reba, HOlly Dunn, Kathy Mattea, and even some hits by Dolly. A new song by Willie Nelson or George Jones would be played, and classics would be mixed in.

Country music was solid then and sounded really good. I at least could tell when I was tuning into a Country Station and a rock station. Now there really is no difference. There really are fewer songs post 1995 worth listening to. There is an occasional Allison Krauss, or good Alan Jackson songs that chart, but other than that, there is nothing good coming out of Nashville, though I hear the Predators aren't doing bad this year.

I hardly ever walk into a bar, and not be able to hear Patsy Cline on the jukebox or on Karaoke. She was even pop sounding for her time. People obviously like her, but Country radio has forgotten about her. And what tailgate party does not have The Devil Went Down to Georgia? Everyone asks what happened to these kinds of songs that used to be the life of the party.

Perhaps it takes a refined taste beyond what most people can handle to really appreciate Hank Sr. and Webb Pierce, so I am not holding my breath to hear them on any station outside of WSM 650. But for the pendulum of Country music to swing back to the Country side so that country radio would be worth listening to again would be a good start.





<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by nwside7725 on 04/19/06 05:32 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[RayDeeOh2004]

>
> But still I think country as a whole is still doing most of
> the same love and hurt singing that it did years ago...
> albet with more cookie cutter lyrics and less of the
> "thinking" lyrics of the 1960s and 1970s (like Tom T. Hall)
>

Speaking of "thinking" lyrics that seems to be coming back now. Look at some of the song writers that are now releasing/have released their own albums. Bobby Pinson and Eric Church specifically.

 

[Jay_F]

> >
> > But still I think country as a whole is still doing most
> of
> > the same love and hurt singing that it did years ago...
> > albet with more cookie cutter lyrics and less of the
> > "thinking" lyrics of the 1960s and 1970s (like Tom T.
> Hall)
> >
>
> Speaking of "thinking" lyrics that seems to be coming back
> now. Look at some of the song writers that are now
> releasing/have released their own albums. Bobby Pinson and
> Eric Church specifically.
>


I like both of the artists you mentioned. I think (no pun intended) the main reason there are less "thinking" lyrics in country (and rock for that matter) than there were in the 60s/70s is that people today are less likely to be thinkers.

I am reading a book called the "Me Generation". Compared to previous generations, today's young people under age 35 (which is the bulk of music buyers including country) are not interested in thinking or reflecting on anything unless it has to do directly with themselves. There is emperical evidence that shows a real shift against thinking about issues or others has occured. So there simply isn't a big market for thinking lyrics at this point and time.

BTW, I recently heard a "thinking" song from the late 60s on a classic country show and it was so good I can't get it out of my mind. It's called "Skip A Rope" by Henson Cargill. Thoughtful lyrics, great hook and guitar. It's so different from anything you would hear these days that it made me feel like I was traveling back to a different dimension.

 

[KeithThompson]

"I hardly ever walk into a bar, and not be able to hear Patsy Cline on the jukebox or on Karaoke. She was even pop sounding for her time. People obviously like her, but Country radio has forgotten about her. And what tailgate party does not have The Devil Went Down to Georgia? Everyone asks what happened to these kinds of songs that used to be the life of the party."

Your results may vary, but I host karaoke on the side and for every singer that sings "Crazy" or "The Devil Went Down To Georgia"...there are 10 who sing "Redneck Woman" or "I Love This Bar". Then again there are about 20 who sing "I Touch Myself" or "New York, New York" so I'm not really sure your point is all that valid. Keep in mind that bar crowds are really not representative of country radio's audience...nor of most radio formats in general.



> I have heard some wonderful stations from the south, the
> most worthwhile being WSM 650, the one station that still
> gives voice to Country music. Once while stationed in the
> Carribbean, you better believe I appreciated KWKH as well.
>
> There are good Country stations out there, just few and far
> between.
>
>
> I live in a one station market, and am at least happy that
> there is a two hour show on Sunday night that goes back in
> time. It's not much, but it's a start. It's the 1-800-in the
> USA show.
>
>
> IT is not all doom and gloom, but if the original poster
> wonders why Country's ratings are low, there are good
> reasons. Garth has died down, and the Garth wannabes are not
> doing a good job being like Garth. Before Garth was George
> Strait, Randy Travis, Ricky Skaggs, Dwight YOakum, Clint
> Black, and Alan Jackson came in about the same time as
> Garth. Before Garth were the Judds, Highway 101, Reba, HOlly
> Dunn, Kathy Mattea, and even some hits by Dolly. A new song
> by Willie Nelson or George Jones would be played, and
> classics would be mixed in.
>
> Country music was solid then and sounded really good. I at
> least could tell when I was tuning into a Country Station
> and a rock station. Now there really is no difference. There
> really are fewer songs post 1995 worth listening to. There
> is an occasional Allison Krauss, or good Alan Jackson songs
> that chart, but other than that, there is nothing good
> coming out of Nashville, though I hear the Predators aren't
> doing bad this year.
>
> I hardly ever walk into a bar, and not be able to hear
> Patsy Cline on the jukebox or on Karaoke. She was even pop
> sounding for her time. People obviously like her, but
> Country radio has forgotten about her. And what tailgate
> party does not have The Devil Went Down to Georgia? Everyone
> asks what happened to these kinds of songs that used to be
> the life of the party.
>
> Perhaps it takes a refined taste beyond what most people can
> handle to really appreciate Hank Sr. and Webb Pierce, so I
> am not holding my breath to hear them on any station outside
> of WSM 650. But for the pendulum of Country music to swing
> back to the Country side so that country radio would be
> worth listening to again would be a good start.
>

 

[Joseph_Gallant]

Ever since it's early days, when it was known as "Hill-Billy Music", country has successfully managed to evolve over the decades.

Country music seems to have the ability to pretty much re-invent itself every so often, which is one reason it's still heard on a large number of radio stations.

If the past is any indication, country will continue to evolve and bounce back every time it does.

 

[RFLA]

> BTW, I recently heard a "thinking" song from the late 60s on
> a classic country show and it was so good I can't get it out
> of my mind. It's called "Skip A Rope" by Henson Cargill.
> Thoughtful lyrics, great hook and guitar. It's so different
> from anything you would hear these days that it made me feel
> like I was traveling back to a different dimension.
>

Personally I like Tom T. Hall's thinking songs such as "Old Dogs,Children,and watermelon wine" describing everything going on in the room and the whole conversation with the black gentleman... Or the stylings of "Faster Horses (The Cowboy And The Poet)"

The "Skip a Rope" song By Mr. Cargill is a pretty good song. I remember the Kentucky Headhunters remade it in 1989 (actually that's where I heard it before I must confess). I know he had the song on his website to listen to, but apparently the website has gone.

But depending upon who is running the classic country station/program , will determine what gets played and a few of the stations/programs here where I live seem to play songs like Henson's as well as the normal 1970's/80s fare...

Talking about classic country had me digging up my Johnny Paycheck album... He did some great music but anyone who complains country is too pop today needs to listen to a apparently pop influenced "friend,Lover,Wife".....

and I leave with one more quote by him " you ever seen Dracula in a grey flannel suit brother, well look up I guarantee you".. one of my favorits lines from "me and the IRS"

RFLA

 

[RFLA]

> I have heard some wonderful stations from the south, the
> most worthwhile being WSM 650, the one station that still
> gives voice to Country music. Once while stationed in the
> Carribbean, you better believe I appreciated KWKH as well.
>
> There are good Country stations out there, just few and far
> between.
>

I'm sorry if I sounded harsh again, but I've heard too many people who narrow their listening to anything before a year, I've seen this more with Classic Rock than country without giving the new artists a break that sometimes take you by surprise like Gretchen Wilson...

I listen to both but for some reason I prefer the in-state KWKH "Home of the legends" even though both have rotated more 90s classics to boost ratings. I know for a while, KWKH had a late 1960s-early 1970s kick and songs that hadn't really seen the light of day in ages were being aired (still are but not in as heavy rotation).

I'm also caught up in a in-state Classic country station here in the state of Louisiana lately from Alexandria which doesn't play anything after Garth Brooks (they call themselves K-Buck).


>
> I live in a one station market, and am at least happy that
> there is a two hour show on Sunday night that goes back in
> time. It's not much, but it's a start. It's the 1-800-in the
> USA show.
>
I'm sorry to hear that, Where I'm at it's a semi rural area between two major areas and I wind up catching 4 or 5 stations (but most of the south has at least 2-3 country stations)
One of the things we are hearing down here in areas without a classic country station lately is more of the country stations playing legend cuts. Mixing a few classic cuts like Don Williams and Freddy Fender with the likes of Dierks Bentley and Brooks and Dunn.. Seems to be working as stations in markets like Jackson,Mississippi (US 96.3)


>
> IT is not all doom and gloom, but if the original poster
> wonders why Country's ratings are low, there are good
> reasons. Garth has died down, and the Garth wannabes are not
> doing a good job being like Garth. Before Garth was George
> Strait, Randy Travis, Ricky Skaggs, Dwight YOakum, Clint
> Black, and Alan Jackson came in about the same time as
> Garth. Before Garth were the Judds, Highway 101, Reba, HOlly
> Dunn, Kathy Mattea, and even some hits by Dolly. A new song
> by Willie Nelson or George Jones would be played, and
> classics would be mixed in.
>
Garth's saying he's not coming back for a while but he sure seems to be trying for the countdown right now... But looks like the people are cooling on some of his newer stuff though...

But It depends upon where you are on the mix..as I said, some country in my area tries to stay with new country, whereas others will mix it up but being where you are, I take it the PD has one demo he's going after and it's probably the proverbial housewife that likes the newer country...




> Country music was solid then and sounded really good. I at
> least could tell when I was tuning into a Country Station
> and a rock station. Now there really is no difference. There
> really are fewer songs post 1995 worth listening to. There
> is an occasional Allison Krauss, or good Alan Jackson songs
> that chart, but other than that, there is nothing good
> coming out of Nashville, though I hear the Predators aren't
> doing bad this year.
>
They've had a few things you'd like, but a lot of it didn't make it up the list too far..mainly first debut songs Like Ray Scott's "my kind of music" (which told of a date with a woman who didn't like country and didn't know who certain classic country and traditional artist were).....

But what is you're opinion of artists like Brad Paisley, Dierks Bentley, and Lee Ann Womack (who basically redid herself from the pop diva to a cd that had the look and sound of something that could have come out of the early 70s)

> I hardly ever walk into a bar, and not be able to hear
> Patsy Cline on the jukebox or on Karaoke. She was even pop
> sounding for her time. People obviously like her, but
> Country radio has forgotten about her. And what tailgate
> party does not have The Devil Went Down to Georgia? Everyone
> asks what happened to these kinds of songs that used to be
> the life of the party.
>
> Perhaps it takes a refined taste beyond what most people can
> handle to really appreciate Hank Sr. and Webb Pierce, so I
> am not holding my breath to hear them on any station outside
> of WSM 650. But for the pendulum of Country music to swing
> back to the Country side so that country radio would be
> worth listening to again would be a good start.
>

Thanks for the compliment on refined tastes .. I've been a life long listener of country and that's maybe why I like all of it compared to others (but I did consider leaving about 5 years ago when the pop diva explosion with cheesy love songs had taken over country... that's probably why country had added more traditional and outlaw sounding stuff I think since then when they were loosing many listeners .. so calling it Nashville pop IMO is not a true reflection right now compared to 5 years ago IMO)

I think you may also be satisfied with some of the country artists doing regionally in Texas such as Kevin Fowler and Robert Earl Keen.. They stay pretty traditional sounding with the Honky tonk twist of course.

RFLA

 

[WyllyWylly]

Dead? I don't think that will ever truly happen... ever go to a country show? Even Hank Jr. still packs a (smaller) house, albeit with a different kind of crowd than Rascal Flatts. Country today is not Merle Haggard or Johnny Cash, although I have listeners who ask from time to time why we don't play them. The simple truth is that they don't generate numbers, which in turn don't generate sales, and without sales and revenue the station has little reason to exist. Advertisers pay based on numbers. The current trend I've been seeing is for stations to start mixing in "southern rock" - Lynyrd Skynyrd, .38 Special, I've even heard America played. A lot of current country releases are skewed more towards a rock and roll sound (Big and Rich) as opposed to what you heard 20 years ago. People believe what you tell, or market, to them: if I say Rascal Flatts is pop, then it is. If I say Bon Jovi is country, so be it. Doesn't matter that Bon Jovi was hair metal in the 80s, he's being marketed as a country singer now, and country stations are playing his new single. It doesn't sound anything like the country you heard in previous generations but it sells.Thus, it's not really a question of "dead" as it is "market viability." With the money that most major stations pay for music research and the number of people who identify with what is being marketed as country, I don't see the format dying at all - just changing and remaining financially viable.