Is D/FW the 5th or 4th largest market?

[jeffdfw]

Why do radio markets differ from other rankings? D/FW is listed below as 4th and San Fran is not in the top 10. The Arbitrons rank San Fran as 4th with D/FW 5th. Just something that I always wondered about... ???

Latest population stats on the top ten metros, according to the Dallas Business Journal/Buffalo Business First:

1. New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA 19,154,092
2. Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA 12,931,077
3. Chicago-Naperville-Joliet, IL-IN-WI 9,641,146
4. Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX 6,618,405
5. Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, TX 6,022,719
6. Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD 6,000,904
7. Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA 5,620,829
8. Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL 5,594,422
9. Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV 5,558,015
10. Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH 4,621,095

 

[little1]

Has a lot to do with how you differntiate different cities and metro areas. IIRC the SF arbitron market includes San Jose, Oakland, etc.

And I just checked your source- they have SF 13th with 4.3 million and San Jose further down the list (30th?) with 1.8 million. Add those together and they surpass Houston and get within sniffing distance of DFW.

 

[LibertyNT]

Television Markets are sometimes Different as well from radio Markets.

Arbitron does it according to the DMA. (I Think)

 

[Huff]

Those populations are for "Metropolitan Statiscal Areas" as defined by the Office of Management and Budget for the Census Bureau. They include all ages (0+). Arbitron metros generally correspond to MSAs, but exclude persons less than 6 years of age (for PPM markets) and less than 12 years (for diary markets.) Counties may not belong to more than one MSA, whereas a county may be a part of two separate Arbitron metros (eg. Santa Clara [San Jose], CA).

DMA's are a Nielsen creation and define larger television viewing areas. Every county in the US is part of a Nielsen DMA, while not every county in the US is part of an Arbitron radio metro.

Here is a map of Arbitron's metro areas, which also shows the boundaries of Nielsen's DMAs:
http://www.arbitron.com/downloads/Arb_US_Metro_Map_10.pdf

 

[jeffdfw]

Thanks for the info...

 

[amfmxm]

Domingo, your explanation is pretty much correct, with a couple of caveats. The 0-6 or 0-12 figures do serve to make Arbitron metros smaller, but rarely-if-ever affect the relative rankings of those metros, since those are ordinarily fairly small numbers--and all markets are affected.

The key difference is that most Arbitron markets are largely defined by listening patterns, with counties included or excluded by whether a percentage of the population listens to stations from that "metro."

BUT, the words "mostly" and "largely" are important. Throughout Arbitron's history, many of its markets have been designed/defined by the broadcasters who requested that their markets be surveyed. See Greenville/Jacksonville/New Bern... Hagerstown/Waynesboro/Chambersburg... there are dozens of examples. Many "imbedded" Arbitron markets like Frederick, MD and Fredericksburg, VA--both officially part of DC--exist only because broadcasters were willing to pay for it. (Yes--SHOCK--Arbitron does stuff for money)! Likewise, many markets have disappeared--especially in recent years--because broadcasters stopped paying Arbitron. So, in Arbitron-Land, the entire concept of "markets" is a wishy-washy idea. Very little is etched in stone.

Nielsen DMAs are rigidly defined by "preponderance of viewing" in each county.

Official OMB MSAs & CSMAs & PMSAs are defined by commuting patterns.

 

[davideduardo]

The key difference is that most Arbitron markets are largely defined by listening patterns, with counties included or excluded by whether a percentage of the population listens to stations from that "metro."

It's a little more than that, as the explanation of the 55/15 rule in "The Purple Book" describes. In essence, a county can be part of a metro if a percentage of listening and a percentage of commuting is exceeded.

This is actually a better razor than the one Nielsen uses; the difference being that TV stations are routinely viewed way beyond their coverage area and have been since we called cable "CATV." A further difference with TV had to do with network affiliation protection, must-carry, etc.

Many "imbedded" Arbitron markets like Frederick, MD and Fredericksburg, VA--both officially part of DC--exist only because broadcasters were willing to pay for it.

Spotsylvania County is not part of the DC metro. Frederick, MD, is a diary condensed measurement market, which, considering that DC is a PPM market, makes it a true separate survey (per the Spring 2010 Blue Book)

An embedded market is a an area, often a county or set of counties, that are part of a larger metro but which local broadcasters who cover that portion of the big market wish to have to show usage in their coverage area. Santa Clara County, CA, is part of the San Freancisco MSA, but is also "extracted" as a separate report; to satisfy MRC, the same controls have to be put on the embedded market as a full market.

Likewise, many markets have disappeared--especially in recent years--because broadcasters stopped paying Arbitron. So, in Arbitron-Land, the entire concept of "markets" is a wishy-washy idea. Very little is etched in stone.

Since stations pay essentially 100% of the cost of a survey... not networks, not clients, there has never been a reason for a survey company to do markets that don't have subscribers. Not Hooper, not Pulse, not Trendex, not Birch... radio does not depend on full national coverage, although the Arbitron Network and County by County data pretty much does that.

Nielsen DMAs are rigidly defined by "preponderance of viewing" in each county.

And the standard, beyond whether anyone will pay for a survey, for Arbitron is the 55/15 rule.

Official OMB MSAs & CSMAs & PMSAs are defined by commuting patterns.

The difference is that OMB's MSA initials stand for Metropolitan Statistical Area and Arbitron's somewhat unfortunate usage of the same initials actually means Metro Survey Area.

 

[davideduardo]

Has a lot to do with how you differntiate different cities and metro areas. IIRC the SF arbitron market includes San Jose, Oakland, etc.

And I just checked your source- they have SF 13th with 4.3 million and San Jose further down the list (30th?) with 1.8 million. Add those together and they surpass Houston and get within sniffing distance of DFW.

And the SF radio metro is 4th, ahead of Dallas.

NY 12+ Population per Arbitron 15,669,000
LA 10,999,000
Chicago 7,862,000
SF 6.145,000
Dallas 5,216,000
-----
Miami, 12th, 3,580,000

Full list: http://www.arbitron.com/home/mm001050.asp

Note the heading "METRO SURVEY AREA" which is not the same as an OMB MSA.

 

[dfwrunner]

Dallas 5,216,000
-----
Miami, 12th, 3,580,000

Full list: http://www.arbitron.com/home/mm001050.asp

Note the heading "METRO SURVEY AREA" which is not the same as an OMB MSA.

I never liked how these "metro areas" are defined. If you take approximately the same area as the 11 county metroplex and center it approximately around Indianapolis, you get 3M people by adding the population of those counties, so it seems abit askew to me. But then they're at a disadvantage in that stations are limited to 50kw. Unfare comparisons.

 

[davideduardo]

I never liked how these "metro areas" are defined. If you take approximately the same area as the 11 county metroplex and center it approximately around Indianapolis, you get 3M people by adding the population of those counties, so it seems abit askew to me. But then they're at a disadvantage in that stations are limited to 50kw. Unfare comparisons.

Since Arbitrons 55/15 rule means most of the weight in defining the additional counties in a market is listening to the stations that are home to the market, then the system is eminently fair since it is based on the geography where people make great use of those stations. That is why it is a radio market... TV markets are basically defined the same way, except that cable makes huge areas where a station has no air signal part of the market area... but it is based on usage of stations still.

 

[e-dawg]

I lived in the San Francisco Bay Area. San Francisco Metropolitan Bay Area consist of 9 Bay area counties (Solano, Sonoma, Napa, Marin, San Francisco, Contra Costa, Alameda, San Mateo, and Santa Clara). If you talk to most people in San Francisco bay area. San Jose is part of the San Francisco Bay Area. People commute back and forth from San Francisco to San Jose. I don't know why the census considered to be a separate area, but San Jose area is connected to San Francisco and Oakland.