Is HD Radio in full coverage now?

[purpledevil]

I rather like Houston, actually.

Just curious, being a resident from Houston, do you find HD2 breakup from the local stations to be a big problem?

No. I have no issues with any HD signals originated from Missouri City's Senior Road, nor the HD signals from those that do not originate from Senior Road, such as KGLK, KHPT, KSBJ, KLTN, and KAMA-FM. I can not receive the HD signal from KOVE, as it's too far south from my QSL, nor do I receive the HD of KHJK, as it is too far east, coming from Devers. The HD signals I receive, once locked in, stay locked in.

I mean, this is Bruce's penmanship, you know. I personally recommend a grain of salt included in your reading, Kelly.

 

[tomservo]

I have trouble with a few stations here in the Mobile area, but I chalk it up to an issue with that particular site, as it affects on the iHeart stations on the WKRG-TV tower in Spanish Fort. They are further away, but it's still just right at 20 miles. If I get more than 20 miles from the other stations in town they don't act that wonky. Of course, the problematic ones don't run higher power at all, either, which doesn't help.

I've had much more positive experiences with HD reception in cars, getting dropout-free reception of even the more troublesome stations a good 30-35 miles away. Now, in this particular area that's still well within the main coverage area, as Pensacola and Mobile are basically one big market (despite not being rated as such), and all the major stations transmit from roughly the same area halfway between the two cities. It does mean the edges of each metro area do suffer dropouts, but here in between we get great reception.

 

[purpledevil]

I should further note that my straight-line distance is 26 miles to the north northeast of the Missouri City antenna farm on Senior Road.

Edit to add: BTW, where exactly is this Radio Disney programming airing at on CBS Radio Houston? 95-7 HD2 is "Energy", 96-5 HD2 is "The Wave", 100-3 HD2 is "KIKK Country Classics", and 101-1 HD2 is "La Grande" from Dallas. The HD3 of 95-7 and 100-3 are CBS Sports Radio and Sports Radio 610, respectively. I missed where in this thread it was mentioned earlier, but we haven't had the Disney programming in Houston since the sale of 1590 KMIC to Radio Aleluya.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

No. I have no issues with any HD signals originated from Missouri City's Senior Road, nor the HD signals from those that do not originate from Senior Road, such as KGLK, KHPT, KSBJ, KLTN, and KAMA-FM. I can not receive the HD signal from KOVE, as it's too far south from my QSL, nor do I receive the HD of KHJK, as it is too far east, coming from Devers. The HD signals I receive, once locked in, stay locked in.

I mean, this is Bruce's penmanship, you know. I personally recommend a grain of salt included in your reading, Kelly.

Glad it works for you. Maybe they are aiming their signals further East. Or you don't listen to HD-2, where the dropouts are REALLY apparent and annoying. If it were just one vehicle, I'd be shopping for a new radio. But when another HD equipped vehicle does the same thing - its a problem in the area where i live. I don't know why, because I can see the towers at night and the land is flat. But I get dropouts, and the other car gets even more dropouts. I might be able to test a couple of other HD equipped vehicles soon, if they drop out, too, I will know I am not dealing with two defective radios.

Oh - I think it was Kelly who brought up Radio Disney. It has yet to make an appearance on HD-2 here.

 

[Kelly A]

Oh - I think it was Kelly who brought up Radio Disney. It has yet to make an appearance on HD-2 here.

You made the incorrect assertion...again, that HD-whatever channels do not contribute to a bottom line. I used the recent migration of Radio Disney to HD channels as just one example of stations leasing their ancillary channels. And I was using that example in large markets, not specifically Houston.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

You made the incorrect assertion...again, that HD-whatever channels do not contribute to a bottom line. I used the recent migration of Radio Disney to HD channels as just one example of stations leasing their ancillary channels. And I was using that example in large markets, not specifically Houston.

I think the disconnect is where I am assuming it is RATINGS and that is probably incorrect when it comes to the bottom line. Almost nobody can sell ads on HD-2, because listenership is so low. But I agree it could be a source of revenue if they lease it to somebody that doesn't care about ratings. Either because they are after the translator to extend the station's range, or maybe they are brokering it. Either way it would make money for the owner.

 

[clouseau]

Glad it works for you. Maybe they are aiming their signals further East. Or you don't listen to HD-2, where the dropouts are REALLY apparent and annoying. If it were just one vehicle, I'd be shopping for a new radio. But when another HD equipped vehicle does the same thing - its a problem in the area where i live. I don't know why, because I can see the towers at night and the land is flat. But I get dropouts, and the other car gets even more dropouts. I might be able to test a couple of other HD equipped vehicles soon, if they drop out, too, I will know I am not dealing with two defective radios.

Oh - I think it was Kelly who brought up Radio Disney. It has yet to make an appearance on HD-2 here.

Bruce,

I used to be really horny to get HD radio. Anymore, I really don't care. But I DO routinely hear KILT HD-2 (or is it 3) which is Sportsradio 610. When driving from Houston south I get it without ANY dropouts through Wharton on 59. It's just NOT as problem for my car a stock Kia Soul from 2014. I just don't see your issue. Specific please...

 

[purpledevil]

I listen to "The Point" quite often, Bruce. No dropouts, anywhere in between my commute to or from work, which is either near the Galleria, Westchase, Energy Corridor, Gulf Freeway, or downtown Houston, depending on which property I am required to pop in on. That particular HD signal, as you know, comes from the far north exurbs of Houston. Then there's "Good Time Oldies" on KRBE HD2, coming from Senior Road, that I have also been very happy with the reception. Finally, there's KSBJ HD2, N-GEN, and just as the other examples, I receive it on both the auto and home receivers without fail. I will state that KHPT HD2 does take an extra second or two to lock in, from time to time, but once locked it remains consistent.

You are not a proponent of the technology. I get that and have no problem with you having your opinion. However, you are not giving anywhere near an accurate representation nor description of the signals available on the HD equipped facilities in our market. You are instead giving a skewed view of the situation, which is nothing new. Perhaps you need to invest in better equipment, because even my newest HD receiver, which is a table top unit I recently purchased from Best Buy for $39, picks up the aforementioned HD signals without fail.

Can anyone tell me if posting a video from my phone is possible here on radiodiscussions, without uploading it to YouTube? That would be the easiest way to disprove his hyperbole.

Edit to add: Clouseau, KILT-FM HD3 is Sports Radio 610 KILT.

 

[purpledevil]

Almost nobody can sell ads on HD-2, because listenership is so low. But I agree it could be a source of revenue if they lease it to somebody that doesn't care about ratings.

I overlooked this statement, in my last reply.

Are you even serious? This is an excellent example as to why I have called you an out and out troll on past occasions. Do YOU even listen to HD2? Please, enlighten a fellow Houstonian as to the HD2's that aren't running at least some amount of paid commercials. I bet you the ones I list that do, outnumber those you list that don't.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Can anyone tell me if posting a video from my phone is possible here on radiodiscussions, without uploading it to YouTube? That would be the easiest way to disprove his hyperbole.

"You are not a proponent of the technology." Actually, I am. I use it all the time. I just wish it worked better in the two vehicles equipped with it that I have access to. I don't dispute your drive tests results. You get better results - that is another data point. There have been other people posting about successes, and others posting about failures. All are valid observations and contribute to a body of test observations. The only conclusion possible is that for a significant number of receivers in cars, there are problems with HD reception. Other people - like you - have better luck. Is it 50/50, 30/70, 10/90? And how is it skewed - more people having problems than not having problems. I am not keeping score. I doubt anybody is motivated to do so. For better or worse, the industry adopted it and HAS to make it work.

Youtube is a good question - I am still stuck in codec / format conversion hell, so I may not be able to post anything. As much as I would like to say "look, here it is, I told you so" - doing so is unlikely to convince anybody one way or the other. More trouble than it is worth right now. If I get an easy way to do it - I will. I promise to be gracious in my proof. Your video will confirm your observations, and mine my observations, which are clearly different from your observations. We are only two people - hardly indicative of a trend either way.

Stationary radios are either going to work, or not, depending on their location, orientation, and antenna. Once you get it receiving HD, I would expect it to continue. Congratulations on even finding an HD radio for sale - it was darn hard for me to find the two I got.

The only ads I hear on HD-2 are on KRBE, pretty much the same ads they have had for 3 years. 99.1's classic rock states that they are commercial free. NGEN of course doesn't do commercials. I don't remember hearing commercials on the point, or on 107.5's oldies feed. Pretty sure KCOH runs commercials, but their high frequency "birdie" makes them almost painful to listen to.

As for being a troll - troll for Jesus? Is that a gift of the Holy Spirit? Personally, if I were inclined to post hateful things about people, I would be embarrassed to this tag line on my posts: "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."

 

[purpledevil]

Oh no...you didn't!

Lord, give me the strength to keep this civil. That last statement coming from you, one who claims to be a God fearing Christian, yet posts on a public message forum that you can't stand foreigners, they need to learn English because you are too stubborn or foolish to have ever expanded your own education by learning a language other than the one your parents taught you as a child, that as soon as an African American format comes on the air, the station immediately is "off my presets", that a longtime AM facility here in town that has been airing Spanish language for nearly 40 years is "slop", because you can't DX a station 190 miles away in San Antonio. On top of that, you have the sheer audacity to judge any and everyone else that doesn't meet your "high standards" as a Christian, when you are so blind as to what you truly are, that you gleefully follow the teachings of a full fledged false prophet and are just another sheep in his God forsaken temple that his fraudulent teachings have manipulated other fools like you into affording him to purchase. I'm always going to be critical of everything you ever say, because nearly everything you say is pure hogwash.

In closing, stick it in your holier than thou ear. I am dead wrong for judging you, and I will require forgiveness for what I'm saying here, but you need not worry about the tagline. You are one of those people that like to stand under a beehive and poke it with a stick. I came out of the beehive and stung you initially because I had been watching you poke the Dallas/Fort Worth beehive for so long, that you ran off most of the other posters with your dreck. You then moved to Houston, and decided in the process you'd start your crap down here on our boards. I refused to let you destroy it then, and I refuse to let you do it now. I've tried to be understanding of you, tolerant of you, even accepting of you, but you just keep on poking. Guess where my dead wife is right now, Bruce? In Heaven, jack, and it didn't stop her to be a "foreigner" or be capable of speaking "foreigner". You are the foreigner to me, because you are the definition of lukewarm for Christ, and the Bible specifically states what happens to those who are lukewarm.

They are spit out.

 

[purpledevil]

After several hours of conversation with my Maker, the previous post is weighing heavily on my heart. I apologize to you, Bruce, for stating what I did above. You just make me so mad sometimes, I could just spit nails. I had no right to comment as I did. To all who read it and we're equally offended, my apology to you as well.

PD

 

[almaniac27]

Heck, no need to apologize Purple, this drama has been some of the best entertainment I've had on a radio forum in a long time. I kind of want you two to do your own version of "Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee", where you hash out your differences while listening for dropouts from Houston HD stations.

 

[Kelly A]

I'm just pleased to see that I'm not the only one frustrated with Bruce's comments.

 

[purpledevil]

I'm just pleased to see that I'm not the only one frustrated with Bruce's comments.

My new signature is a part of the scripture that God placed in my heart to study after the conversation I had with him last evening mentioned above. I am unable to add more to it than what He has already spoken.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

My new signature is a part of the scripture that God placed in my heart to study after the conversation I had with him last evening mentioned above. I am unable to add more to it than what He has already spoken.

I appreciate the apology. I accept it in good grace, and hope that we can continue to discuss radio matters pleasantly. There are enough online bullies without you and me adding to the problem. I include myself in the list of online bullies in case I have offended someone as well. There is no place for bullying in our society. Or on a professional board.

I am making mental note of the dropout locations, they seem to be pretty consistent. I had forgotten I could just snap on my phone and get video. But getting that video online - I must admit to being somewhat over my head!

 

[2Speakers]

Someone asked earlier in the thread why some stations have more dropouts on HD3/4 than on HD1/2.

The answer is redundancy of the digital signal.

The main HD Radio signal offers 96k of data, which can be divided up amongst several channels. Most stations opt to divide it amongst 2 or 3 at the very most. This main 96k signal is actually broadcast redundantly, both above and below the main analog signal.

HD offers an "extended mode" where you can get an additional 24k of data. If you were looking at a station on a spectrum analyzer, you would see this just inside the upper and lower HD signals. The HD signals would simply appear to be wider on such a station.

The thing is, for the extended partition, half the data is transmitted below the analog signal and half is transmitted above it. If interference blocks reception of one or the other, the result will be a dropout, where the listener wouldn't experience a dropout listening to a service on the main 96k partition.

Because the extended partition is closer in to the analog signal, stations broadcasting it have to pay particularly close attention to their analog modulation level. If your analog signal exceeds 110% modulation, the analog signal will overlap and interfere with any service being transmitted in the extended partition.

 

[Ai4i]

Someone asked earlier in the thread why some stations have more dropouts on HD3/4 than on HD1/2. The answer is redundancy of the digital signal.
The main HD Radio signal offers 96k of data, which can be divided up amongst several channels. Most stations opt to divide it amongst 2 or 3 at the very most. This main 96k signal is actually broadcast redundantly, both above and below the main analog signal.
HD offers an "extended mode" where you can get an additional 24k of data. If you were looking at a station on a spectrum analyzer, you would see this just inside the upper and lower HD signals. The HD signals would simply appear to be wider on such a station.
The thing is, for the extended partition, half the data is transmitted below the analog signal and half is transmitted above it. If interference blocks reception of one or the other, the result will be a dropout, where the listener wouldn't experience a dropout listening to a service on the main 96k partition.
Because the extended partition is closer in to the analog signal, stations broadcasting it have to pay particularly close attention to their analog modulation level. If your analog signal exceeds 110% modulation, the analog signal will overlap and interfere with any service being transmitted in the extended partition.

Yes, yes, a CBS engineer told me that the reason I kept losing a station's subchannel but not their HD1 was that the HD1 is furthur out from the carrier.
Now, it sounds like you are adding that the HD1 and maybe 2 use(s) frequency redundancy, but the additional sub-channels do not.
I still prefer the sound(s) of commercial HD2's & 3's because engineers at commercial stations tend to process the HD1's to match the zero dynamic range of their analogue components, although non-coms do not.
I forgot what the maximum deviation is including two SCA's and stereo, when you say 110%, do you mean over 75KHz, which would be about 82.5KHz?

 

[2Speakers]

Yes, yes, a CBS engineer told me that the reason I kept losing a station's subchannel but not their HD1 was that the HD1 is furthur out from the carrier.
Now, it sounds like you are adding that the HD1 and maybe 2 use(s) frequency redundancy, but the additional sub-channels do not.
I still prefer the sound(s) of commercial HD2's & 3's because engineers at commercial stations tend to process the HD1's to match the zero dynamic range of their analogue components, although non-coms do not.
I forgot what the maximum deviation is including two SCA's and stereo, when you say 110%, do you mean over 75KHz, which would be about 82.5KHz?

You can technically divide things up however you want, making use of the two data streams - 96k and 24k.

You could use the entire main 96k partition for HD1 to deliver maximum fidelity, then divide the 24k extended partition up into HD2, HD3 and HD4 with only 8k per channel.

You could also use the 96k for HD1, HD2 and HD3 with HD4 in the separate 24k partition.

Lots of ways to go about it.

And yes, I'm talking about overmodulation. The regular 96k HD Radio partition starts 130KHz out from the assigned frequency. If in use, the extended partition starts 115KHz out. If the analog modulation hasn't dropped to 45dB down or so by the time you get to 115KHz, expect problems with any HD channels in the extended partition.

You can see how this could be an issue in markets like New York where 115% modulation (or more) is the norm.

 

[Ai4i]

You can see how this could be an issue in markets like New York where 115% modulation (or more) is the norm.

1 Corinthians 13:11, "When I was a child...",
I thought heavy processing was kewl, but the processing got heavier and I got older, and now I cannot tolerate it.
When a friend puts the local oldies station on, my first thought is about how painful the processibng makes it sound.