is this format dying? so many stations are flipping and also there's no rock/alternative on CHR anymore. I miss the days when Green Day, Fall Out Boy, Gorillaz, Panic!, Nirvana, and others were on CHRs and all stations were flipping to Alternative
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is it dying?
- Thread starter XCountry285
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R
ratingsgeek
Guest
Yeah, me too. And it isn't that there's no demand for the music/format--there's plenty. But it would require radio decision-makers to get beyond their own personal comfort zones.
And that isn't all that different from the early nineties when every AOR in America was stuck in the seventies...
And that isn't all that different from the early nineties when every AOR in America was stuck in the seventies...
Normally, I would say trends come and go and Alternative, or Rock in general, will come back eventually. However, there is a profound demographic trend in the US that is defining the future of radio, among other things. That is the influx of Latinos.
Not to over-generalize but it would appear that Latinos favor rhythmic over rock music and they make up a growing percentage of younger demos (under 35 years old). So, formats that appeal to younger demos are likely to lean rhythmic for a long time to come. Rock and Alternative music will continue to thrive as formats appealing to adults (25-54) but that probably means more emphasis on oldies instead of new music.
Not to over-generalize but it would appear that Latinos favor rhythmic over rock music and they make up a growing percentage of younger demos (under 35 years old). So, formats that appeal to younger demos are likely to lean rhythmic for a long time to come. Rock and Alternative music will continue to thrive as formats appealing to adults (25-54) but that probably means more emphasis on oldies instead of new music.
I definitely think the future of the Modern Rock/Alternative format is going to be based on "indie" bands like Phoenix, Vampire Weekend, The Black Keys, The xx, Passion Pit, etc. I went to a Passion Pit show in Pomona last night and it was completely packed. I talked to people around me, and they came from as far away as San Diego to all the way from as North as Bakersfield.
And pretty much all these bands have grown due to the internet. Imagine what will happen when mainstream radio stations start playing them...
And pretty much all these bands have grown due to the internet. Imagine what will happen when mainstream radio stations start playing them...
radiojomo said:
Except stations like WFNX, CD 101/102.5, FM 94/9, and Channel 92.3 have been playing them for a while. The other stations are finally starting to drop the buttrock and catch on. I made a similar post here a while ago. bout time these bands got the recognition they deserve!
WBIMDJ said:
It's what's keeping alternative, nationally, alive.
G
upstate29651 said:
But isn't alternative one of those formats that really belongs to localism. One band may be huge in an area of the country and not so hot in the next.
It is dying on the radio, however alternative rock is alive and well everywhere else such as youtube, satellite radio, underground scenes, concerts, and many other ways to hear about the music.
The radio dial around my way only has one alternative rock station with a city-grade signal. That is radio 104.5 out of philly. That station is ok, if you like the same 50-100 recurrents/gold songs, safe and softer playlist with hot a/c tracks mixed in and the classic alternative they play. i get sick and tired of the same predictable playlist.
The last time I heard a good alternative rocker was g-rock radio 106.5 from bass river twp. NJ. they actually played quite a bit of good music with a good balance of new and old songs. quite a few songs gave me a "oh my god this is actually on the radio" feeling.
The radio dial around my way only has one alternative rock station with a city-grade signal. That is radio 104.5 out of philly. That station is ok, if you like the same 50-100 recurrents/gold songs, safe and softer playlist with hot a/c tracks mixed in and the classic alternative they play. i get sick and tired of the same predictable playlist.
The last time I heard a good alternative rocker was g-rock radio 106.5 from bass river twp. NJ. they actually played quite a bit of good music with a good balance of new and old songs. quite a few songs gave me a "oh my god this is actually on the radio" feeling.
M
MarcR
Guest
How can people argue that the format is "dying on the radio" when it's currently performing quite well in a number of markets (Los Angeles, San Diego, Portland, Seattle, Kansas City, Salt Lake City, Houston etc.)?!
Actually, I believe Nirvana (& ilk) drive away the very audience alt radio serves! Alt lovers are the most serious rock and rollers. Excessive gold may keep some older demos, but is a slap in face insult (and huge tuneout) to the REAL modern rock lovers driven off by it. Kind of the way "Stairway to Layla" fragmented the AOR audience and ratings.upstate29651 said:
WBIMDJ said:
Good points. Old habits die hard and some programmers today may have came up through the ranks in the 90s. They might be shocked if they stop to realize that some Nirvana, RHCP, etc. are the same age now as some Boston, Zep and Hendrix were in the early 90s. In 2010, how does an 18-34 year old look at 90s Alternative? As a college kid in 1990, I liked Zep but I didn't want to hear them on an Alt. station. As has been mentioned here, some songs may be burnt. And some may just not belong on the same station as Temper Trap and Mumford & Sons.
Then there's the individual market differences. Some Alt stations play Bob Marley, while you'd never hear him on others.
It may be wishful thinking but in my heart, I don't believe the format is dying. From the healthy debate in this thread, it looks like there are plenty of people who have ideas, support new artists and who still believe in it. But it may be a challenge to convince high-level management of this. It's easier for some of them to "get" Classic Rock, Country and AC than it is Alternative.
Alt is a format consisting almost entirely of P1s! Corporate mindset has ruined a large number of stations by acquisition. CBS killed WNEW, XRK, KRK(Detroit) among other Alts and Rockers in their grasp. Mighty BCN was killed by a computer (WBOS)! WYSP, once perennial 5.0 ratings champ, on life support since the Free FM "fix". KROQ's "girl" has been spending a great deal of time over at KSYR lately. Press with WHTG and let's not forget Indie 103.1 or WPLY. WLIR went for $60 million but you must give them credit for selling a Class A FM for THAT amount, even in NYC! KROQ certainly will stomp 98.7 now that Lovelines is back at 10PM. Corporate understanding of Alt is the equivalent of mixing Buck Owens tunes into a Classical station's play list.
xyz said:
Correct. M18-34 to be exact. And those P1's with money are those at the upper end of the scale. These are also those who grew up with 90's alt rock. Yet another reason why it's not going away.
G
xyz said:
A good observation. A well-run alternative station will not get Hit Radio ratings. It will, however, attract an audience that'll go through hell or high water to keep it on the air.
Of course, when WHTG-FM flipped to hit radio here in in central NJ and publicly blamed the listeners for the change, they never came close to matching the alt's ratings. Jilted alt fans will go to great lengths to sabotage a "traitor". My suspicion - and it is only that - is that thousands of people in the market simply reminded their friends who listened to hit radio that NYC hit radio stations were better.
I've just about given up on corporate "alternative" radio. Those corporations are best off sticking to what they're good at - serving up the hits. I'd like to see more stations like WFNX and WEQX, run by smaller companies that truly believe in the format. And I'd also love to see more college stations take a more focused approach that isn't "mass appeal", but still strives for some degree of accessibility and consistency.
mjb1124 said:
MJB, your comment was my opinion until a little over a week ago when I found out about Riff2 (the HD2 feed of WRIF/Detroit) which streams http://www.wrif.com/riff2 Most stations - terrestrial or internet-only - are either too mass appeal, way too formulaic (including some of the so-called hip commercial FM modern rockers) or too inaccessible in my view. You provided a key word in there as well with consistency, which is very lacking when it comes to many college and online operators. And the non-comm alternative stations are good for what they are, programming to their narrow audiences.
As a radiohead/radio nerd, over the years I've been asked from time to time what Rev 105/Minneapolis was like. Musically, to me Riff2 comes closest of any station since then by providing an adventurous playlist while keeping things consistent with a regular playlist of currents. Despite the diverse playlist, they don't ignore some of the hits past and present, which keeps things accessible. In some ways, the sound of Indie 103.1/LA was similar to that of Rev 105, however IMO its regular programming was less musically diverse as far as genres go while at the same time being more inaccessible overall and more "soft" than Rev or Riff2.
This isn't an argument against commercialism. The fact is that most people use their ipod, iphone or car radio as an appliance. Therefore playing the top 40 modern rock is the formula used to try to connect with these people, I get that. It's just that some of us like what we consider to be good music, ya' know?! Maybe with a few surprises or a LOT of surprises thrown in such as the time Rev 105 segued from Buddy Holly's "That'll be the day" into Ministry "NWO"
that I was recently reminded of by someone on another site.Fans of "Alternative" (a very broad and misused word) tend to be more tech savvy and independant than fans of other music. The very term Alternative describes a vast plane of music that typical radio stations would not play hence the label. Before stations simply branded themselves as Alternative they had liners and IDs that said something like " Your alternative to -fill in the blank- music" and the suits latched onto one word out of the whole statement. By its very nature Alternative is at least slightly anti-society,anti-establishment and defiant. Advertisers want music that goes WITH the grain so it attracts the most listeners and doesn't offend the 'average Joe or Jane' which leaves most of the stuff we love out back in the alley or someones garage. Underground and Independant actually boast about not comforming to the norm,which is what its fans love to begin with,and its no surprise that Mr Smiley Gladhand and Mr Budget turn thier nose to it. We tend to do whatever it takes to get that unique musical buzz and radio doesn't offer that much so we reach for our Ipod or 'online only' sources leaving FM to grovel and beg for listeners. I think the only way we'll see more stations we like is by fans being station owners. We'll always be treated like that punk down the street even though Alt fans aren't the most likely to be criminals( not many Grungers or Tranceheads shooting each other is there?) or showing up on PPMs but not on a government census. Alternative will come and go in phases on FM radio but will never die off as long as bands and artists refuse to let thier talent be dictated,dumbed down,homogenized and watered down. As for this listener....I've defiantly put old IDs and liners from my favorite stations on my MP3 player since 2005 even though the stations came back online or on HD subchannels in new versions of themselves.
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