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Is it my radio?

"My personal interest in AM HD is to provide a robust, stable platform for digital broadcasting. When I understood that IBOC would employ ISB (as opposed to the 8VSB of HDTV), I jumped aboard the IBOC bandwagon."

iyiyi: You are completely wrong about IBOC. It is not an ISB signal. The digital information is carried as a quadrature-modulated component of the AM carrier.
Actually, HD is similar in implemention to the old AM C-Quam system.

The fact is .... Analog and digital cannot co-exist on the same carrier without causing cross-contamination ... digital noise on the analog signal and analog "hits" to the digital sidebands.

AM HD is not robust. Impulse noise kills the digital datastream. Once the receiver loses digital lock, it takes a bit of time to re-establish the lock and the digital audio just goes away.

Narrow band frequency modulation might be a better choice for the AM (MW) band.
 
frankberry said:
Narrow band frequency modulation might be a better choice for the AM (MW) band.
That was tried back in the '80s, as "Noise-Free Radio" (NFR). But due to the low frequencies and limited bandwidth, using FM on the AM band wasn't exactly "noise-free", nor was it any more hi-fi than a typical narrowband AM receiver. NBFM on MW is communications-grade quality, at best.
 
You are absolutely wrong.
You can get a 15kHz response and stay well within the NRSC mask.
I should know. I'm the person who received the FCC approval and ran the tests on WQYK-AM.
 
Hey, Clouseau! Did you install HD on your AM yet? If not, why not?? :D

"Pedantic?" I thought this was a discussion board. How can you discuss anything without exposition? "Pessimistic?" On the contrary, after 45 years in radio, I remain steadfastly upbeat about this amazing medium. The industry constantly reinvents itself and succeeds, echoing Churchill's sentiment about Americans who "can always be counted on to do the right thing - after they've exhausted everything else."

Just look at how HD has flopped. Makes you kind of quietly proud....see, truth prevails... 8)
 
Savage said:
Hey, Clouseau! Did you install HD on your AM yet? If not, why not?? :D

Because, like you, I have been working on getting on FM via translators. :D We have 2 soon to be 3 (crossed fingers). Also managed to buy the station a while back.

As for HD on AM, We're about 49000 watts short of being able to get the WOAI results. We're 2 1/2 years in and paying the bills. Rumor has it the other 2 commercial AMs aren't.

Glad to see you are doing well. You ought to move down here. Zero HD AMs and two Non-comm HD FM's. No commercials HD at all.

We're virtually a Digital free zone...
 
Wow, that's fantastic, Clouseau. Congratulations on joining the ranks of entrepreneurial radio. Just a week ago I went to the ribbon-cutting for the new studios for Dave Radigan's WEBO in Owego, NY (suburban Binghamton market.) It's a showplace; Dave (former Entercom PD and on-air talent) is doing a fantastic job down there. When he bought the station it was a Behringer mixer running Winamp in a closet at a movie theater, and the transmitter site was a rented utility shed with a longwire between two phone poles running about 100w AM. It's great to see guys who love the medium getting into ownership.

I sincerely wish you all the best - as you already know, it's gonna be a real adventure!

PM me sometime. I've got an NTR idea for you in case you're not already doing one.
 
clouseau said:
Because, like you, I have been working on getting on FM via translators. :D We have 2 soon to be 3 (crossed fingers). Also managed to buy the station a while back.

As for HD on AM, We're about 49000 watts short of being able to get the WOAI results. We're 2 1/2 years in and paying the bills. Rumor has it the other 2 commercial AMs aren't.

Good to hear from you Clouseau. Welcome to the ranks of small station ownership! Although it "has it's moments," running a small station is a lot of fun. There are a lot of ex-radio people who would love to be doing what you and I are doing, even if we don't get rich doing it. :)
 
Yeah all I neeed is an old TV remote unit to resotre and I'll be complete. :)

Thanks Y'all
 
There are some FM stations that put HD on the transmission system but left a 15 Khz bottle neck in the delivery to the transmitter. As an economy thing, they took a short cut. Some of the older STL systems, Audio Processors, DSP 6000 encoders etc. are built around the old analog FM 15 Khz limits. To do a proper job of HD, a full 20 Khz audio path is needed from the source to the transmitter. It's not enough to just output HD without delivering a signal worthy of the medium. I'm not a big fan of FM HD, and am totally opposed to the AM abomination called HD. HD has it's place and has some advantages, but is rarely used to it's fullest potential.
 
clouseau said:
Yeah all I neeed is an old TV remote unit to resotre and I'll be complete. :)

Thanks Y'all

There is probably a rotted out hulk just sitting in a junk yard that has your name on it... :) Misery loves company....
 
bilco said:
To do a proper job of HD, a full 20 Khz audio path is needed from the source to the transmitter. It's not enough to just output HD without delivering a signal worthy of the medium.
Trying to squeeze more than 15 kHz of audio response out of HD Radio is pointless anyway due to the very limited data rates involved. And at the extreme high end, remember that it's all fake SBR "simulated" treble, which will bear little or no resemblance to the original unencoded audio anyway.

And I think the HDC codec is only capable of 20 kHz audio when you devote the entire 96 kbps data rate to just the main program audio. Once you add an HD2 or HD3 channel, the bit rates drop down to the point where the HDC encoder is forced to chop off everything above 15 or 16 kHz.

And of course with AM HD, 15 kHz is the most you can squeeze through anyway, for the handful of listeners who might actually hear it... until they drive under a bridge or noisy power line, then the radio drops out to 5 kHz analog AM...
 
iyiyi said:
My personal interest in AM HD is to provide a robust, stable platform for digital broadcasting. When I understood that IBOC would employ ISB (as opposed to the 8VSB of HDTV), I jumped aboard the IBOC bandwagon. The current IBOC modulation scheme supplies a rock solid foundation to construct a viable lattice for digital data in the MW band.

I needed a good laugh! Stable?! You've got to be kidding.

At the risk of being labelled a "hater" or a throwback with too much Neanderthal genes or something - I'll describe the stability of HD AM from a listener perspective, and compare it to the previous system C-Quam.

I am an engineer by profession, and therefore am thoroughly familiar with the scientific method. My test methodology was to select two test stations, and compare the viability of stereo reception at a distant location pre and post HD conversion. My listening location was partly dictated by reports from another poster that mountainous terrain caused problems with C-Quam. I also selected a location remote enough that any coverage problems caused by C-Quam would be immediately apparent.

- Test receiver was a Sony SRF-A1 portable, selected because I was going to hike all over the mountainous terrain to ascertain if there was any effect from it.

- Test stations were KMKI 620 and KAAM 770 from the Dallas area.

- Primary test location was a rest area in a canyon just east of Crosbyton, TX, on highway 114. This is about 290 miles distant from the test stations.

- Test time was daytime. It is unwise to hike a wilderness area infested with rattlesnakes after dark.

C-Quam results. Both stations were surprisingly clear, although they had some static. A portable loop cleared both to local quality, but wasn't used for the rest of the test. I would characterize them as completely listenable. KKOB interference was noted on 770, although not enough to affect the C-Quam stereo decode. After a few hours of hiking around up one wall of the canyon and the other, I observed no dropouts or effect on the stereo decode at all. It was rock solid stable over several hundred feet of vertical climb on both walls of the canyon.

Because the test revealed no weaknesses in the C-Quam system at all, I move the test location to a location in the West part of Lubbock, TX, about 330 miles distant. KMKI static was noticably increased, but C-Quam still decoded. It would not be what I would call listenable, although the portable loop again brought it in with almost local clarity. KAAM was about the same, but KKOB interference was much worse, and the portable loop brought both stations in with almost equal strength. Nevertheless, KAAM C-Quam still decoded properly with no hint of any problem.

Post HD conversion results:

Both stations were markedly weaker in the primary test location. Static had increased to the point that I would characterize both at unlistenable. KKOB interference was worse on 770. A small loop did help the situation, but could not clear static completely. As the SRF-A1 is not an HD radio, I did not get HD decode, of course. Because the signal strength was so poor, I did not conduct hike tests. At the secondary west Lubbock location, KAAM was virtually covered with KKOB, which seemed to be the dominant signal on the frequency. KMKI could still be largely cleared, but even with the loop was noticeably weaker. The effect was also noticed by other DX'ers in the area who previously enjoyed the station but had largely given up in favor of streaming.

I next found a listening location nearer to Dallas to find what the coverage was of HD AM. I used a Sangean HDT-1 as my test receiver. I selected my home, of course, which was less than 10 miles from both test stations. KMKI stereo decode was good, but KAAM at 9.6 miles would not decode at all. I moved my test location to Van Alstyne, TX. KMKI HD decoded in mono, but stereo was very finicky with the supplied loop.

Because the HDT-1 also has FM, I did a quick test of Dallas HD stations. All decoded in HD with only a dipole antenna about one meter off the ground. Distance was about 70 miles. Another DX'er has reported reliable HD decode on Houston stations 84 miles from the towers with a dipole.

The only conclusion possible is that C-Quam is a much more robust AM stereo system. Of course the demographics of my listening locations were characterized by rattlesnakes and cattle, nobody cares about coverage out there for a few ranchers. But - diminished signal strength translates directly to diminished building penetration were the station do care. And the dramatic decrease in signal strength is bad news for any AM station wishing to penetrate office buildings.

The only thing "robust" about AM HD appears to be the persistence of the HD sidebands. I have previous reported the distinct presence of HD sideband pairs on Chicago stations at a rest stop near Grenville, NM on highway 64 / 87 in the daytime, two different times of the year - with nothing but a factory car radio. This is very alarming, because it means the sideband propagate very much farther than intended, over a thousand miles in this case - long after the carrier and analog signal have gone. Since there are so few AM HD stations on the air, the source of the sideband pairs is pretty obvious. Those sideband pairs were gone by Flagstaff, AZ.

Far from being a "hater" - I own three HD radios. Not out of any particular love for HD, but because the radio situation in my home town of Houston is so horrible that the only formats I have any interest in are all on HD-2. I do what it takes to get my preferred format, whether it is DX, stream, or HD. IF HD has the format I want, I'll use HD - and live with the lack of robustness in the system. It is too bad that HD is yet another aspect of DX'ing, only this time I need to DX on local signals to get the system to work at all.
 
It's not just about stupid choices in radio.

It's a LOT to do with gee-whiz screen interfaces and cheapness above all.

Since about 1980, I ve been watching more and more "real-world" hardware-type applications,
meaning mechanical, parts-built, etc, being delivered into the control of CPU processing.

Sometimes, when a product ( application) is migrated to something new, real effort goes into
understanding why it works well. I'll take the case of a remote ink adjustment console and a disaster
I am currently enjoying from a close perspective.

In ancient times, when a print job ( think a magazine) was printed, the job would start up, and an amazing amount
of paper and time were spent while pressmen adjusted many things up to a saveable copy, but many, many trips
from the end of the press and back to the printing units where they adjusted typically up to 24 individual thumbscrews
adjusting the size of a tiny gap metering exactly the needed amount of ink. That's 24 keys x 2 per each unit!

In the 60's Harris, yes, the same HARRIS developed the Telecolor console.
A color control desk let the pressman put a sheet in front of him and a proof sheet above that.
An arrangement of plus/minus mil-spec rocker switches along the front edge allowed him to adjust "ink keys"
arranged across the width of desk in front of him.
He'd select one button for the desired "fountain", and IMMEDIATELY a relay circuit connected it, and B/W
TV monitor showed a bar graph display. Later, they improved with a time multiplexed LED bar graph rear panel
meaning less eye movement and even easier to use.
By the mid-80's there was a 8024 based system to preset keys to a curve defined by the image data. Even less waste.

I became Telecolor Tommy when I went to work for Harris Graphics in 88.
By the 90's with the cost of so much hand-wiring and the march of technology the product was migrated into
a 486 cpu design running QNX and while the layout of operator keys was still optimized to the needs of the user,
the users started to become confused because the old ones had always displayed positions in real time live, where the new one
displays "updates" as received in data packets. The old system tolerated the way pressmen would often
miscalibrate keys, as absolutely necessary running some jobs. The newer system just got worse and worse.
The old system kept all the "brains and works" in the desk , the new one put circuit boards where they
were certain to be water damaged.

Anyway, even that Telecolor II system became accepted because the efficiency of the desk-type interface for that job is so perfect.

Where I work now we are installing a brand-spankin new "Brand x" system that does several things neatly:

1. Completely ignores the desk/keyboard layout, and requires them to punch little areas of a touchscreen to highlight
keys they want to move, then slect another box to adjust a NUMBER to tell it how much to move, then tap another
area to tell it up or down. This is so much clunkier to use I can't believe it's offered for sale.

2. Doesn't work. Hasn't got enough current from the driver boards to drive the keys, so the system marks them as "stuck".

3. Locks up. Amazingly, this new manufacturer has based their product in the QNX environment but it still locks up.

4 Become a maintenance headache on the first press, and we've put it on another before item #2 has been addressed.

5 It works counter to the NEEDS of the press and pressmen, it's so smart.
It's a "self-correcting" system with live camers scanning. Not necessarily bad, if it were to set keys so as to maintain
a "smooth curve" (think old graphic eq sliders). This is how a pressman would always set keys.
This thing will set one key way open and the next one closed, etc, repeat.
It's just so mind-boggling it's unbelievable. When it gets confused, you can't just set it straight and put
a smooth curve to it. It steadfastly refuses to acknowledge the behavior of ink through a series of rollers,
and thinks the press will behave "digitally" if it tells it to.

Whew, I just can't wait to see the next poorly interfaced piece of C++ code we'll get!

C is not a computer language, it's a sort of computer game of charades.

When a computer or any digital mode is well-integrated, transparent, and even offers adavntages
such Breakaway Broadcast Processor, I'm enthusiastic.

When it's hapless engineering, I enjoy poking fun at it.
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
iyiyi said:
My personal interest in AM HD is to provide a robust, stable platform for digital broadcasting. When I understood that IBOC would employ ISB (as opposed to the 8VSB of HDTV), I jumped aboard the IBOC bandwagon. The current IBOC modulation scheme supplies a rock solid foundation to construct a viable lattice for digital data in the MW band.

I needed a good laugh! Stable?! You've got to be kidding.

At the risk of being labelled a "hater" or a throwback with too much Neanderthal genes or something - I'll describe the stability of HD AM from a listener perspective, and compare it to the previous system C-quam...

- Test receiver was a Sony SRF-A1 portable, selected because I was going to hike all over the mountainous terrain to ascertain if there was any effect from it.

You have a Sony SRF-A1? Then you haven't ONE leg to stand on! The SRF-A1 has an A/B switch. The switch is fed by a single, simple I/Q detector. In the "A" position, the I (L+R) and Q (L-R) signals are fed into a matrix that algebraically adds the two signals. Very similar to the way L+R and L-R are added in a FM stereo receiver to retrieve the discrete left and right channels. This "A" position allows the "quadrature" (Harris, Magnavox, Belar, Motorola C-QUAM) systems a straight decode into stereo. The "B" position takes the I/Q outputs of the EXACT SAME I/Q DETECTOR as the above systems, and "band shifts" the entire audio output frequencies +45 degrees for the upper sideband and shifts the entire audio from the lower sideband -45 degrees. Since the audio from both sidebands are effectively 90 degrees in quadrature with each other, they matrix into discrete L and R audio outputs.

Now here's the "Gotchya". Whenever the SRF-A1 is switched into "stereo", the audio is presented as a stereo signal regardless of whether the station is broadcasting a stereo signal or not. Therefore the I signal is matrixed with any Q signal present. A quality, monophonic, properly tuned AM transmitter/antenna system will output no Q signal, so the matrix only outputs the I (L+R) audio for a mono output. Assuming no IPM is present, flipping the stereo switch from "A" to "B" should produce no difference in audio between settings with a clean mono signal.

Add a co-channel signal, even as low as -20dBc, and you now separate the men from the boys. That -20dBc co-channel QRM is seen as a quadrature modulation in the detector. With the "quadrature" systems this "Q" interference manifests itself as "platform motion". Adjacent channel "splash" occurs in the center of the audio. ISB, OTOH, is not affected by co-channel interference. The audio platform remains stable and any adjacent channel splash occurs at the outside edge of the affected channel. Leonard called this phenomenon the "cocktail party effect". The co-channel "clutter" remains in the center with ISB, just as it does with standard AM.

Here's the deal. Take your Sony SRF A-1 and find ANY AM signal with co-channel interference. With the mode switch set to "stereo", flip the switch from "A" to "B" and back while listening to the headphones. Now try doing the same thing with a station that suffers adjacent splash. Flip the radio into mono and stereo and see which position is least affected by QRM.

THEN get back to me about what you believe is the PRACTICAL and ROBUST way to broadcast a MW signal! Also you might try to explain the difference between Independent Sidebands and Assymetrical Sidebands to me.

Thanks!

-
 

You have a Sony SRF-A1? Then you haven't ONE leg to stand on! The SRF-A1 has an A/B switch. The switch is fed by a single, simple I/Q detector. In the "A" position, the I (L+R) and Q (L-R) signals are fed into a matrix that algebraically adds the two signals. Very similar to the way L+R and L-R are added in a FM stereo receiver to retrieve the discrete left and right channels. This "A" position allows the "quadrature" (Harris, Magnavox, Belar, Motorola C-QUAM) systems a straight decode into stereo. The "B" position takes the I/Q outputs of the EXACT SAME I/Q DETECTOR as the above systems, and "band shifts" the entire audio output frequencies +45 degrees for the upper sideband and shifts the entire audio from the lower sideband -45 degrees. Since the audio from both sidebands are effectively 90 degrees in quadrature with each other, they matrix into discrete L and R audio outputs.

Now here's the "Gotchya". Whenever the SRF-A1 is switched into "stereo", the audio is presented as a stereo signal regardless of whether the station is broadcasting a stereo signal or not. Therefore the I signal is matrixed with any Q signal present. A quality, monophonic, properly tuned AM transmitter/antenna system will output no Q signal, so the matrix only outputs the I (L+R) audio for a mono output. Assuming no IPM is present, flipping the stereo switch from "A" to "B" should produce no difference in audio between settings with a clean mono signal.

Add a co-channel signal, even as low as -20dBc, and you now separate the men from the boys. That -20dBc co-channel QRM is seen as a quadrature modulation in the detector. With the "quadrature" systems this "Q" interference manifests itself as "platform motion". Adjacent channel "splash" occurs in the center of the audio. ISB, OTOH, is not affected by co-channel interference. The audio platform remains stable and any adjacent channel splash occurs at the outside edge of the affected channel. Leonard called this phenomenon the "cocktail party effect". The co-channel "clutter" remains in the center with ISB, just as it does with standard AM.

Here's the deal. Take your Sony SRF A-1 and find ANY AM signal with co-channel interference. With the mode switch set to "stereo", flip the switch from "A" to "B" and back while listening to the headphones. Now try doing the same thing with a station that suffers adjacent splash. Flip the radio into mono and stereo and see which position is least affected by QRM.

THEN get back to me about what you believe is the PRACTICAL and ROBUST way to broadcast a MW signal! Also you might try to explain the difference between Independent Sidebands and Assymetrical Sidebands to me.

Thanks!

-
[/quote]

Really? You really think I wouldn't know the difference between the Kahn and Motorola settings on my radio? Or I couldn't tell the difference between true stereo separation and different sonic characteristics? Or that I don't know about platform motion? You seriously underestimate me!

The receiver was set to Motorola / C-Quam mode. While KMKI was broadcasting modern songs with a good deal of mono content in the middle, there was true separation. KAAM happened to broadcast one of those old "singers on on channel instruments on the other" songs from the early days of stereo. It's part of their playlist. And true to form, the song was in stereo. The thing about platform motion - it should have made the channels swap, which would have been VERY obvious on KAAM with KKOB interference. KKOB did not cause platform motion on KAAM, and there was nobody more surprised than me! There is a poster on here who was going on and on about platform motion, so that is one reason I did the test. To either confirm or disprove his assertion. I disproved it, although there was platform motion when I did the test in West Lubbock. But nobody would listen to a frequency with almost equal parts of two stations, so it was unlistenable at that point.

I am aware of the Kahn C-Quam debate. I tend to avoid religious discussions - religions like tube vs. transistor, speaker wire, Mac vs. PC, Linux vs. Windows. I will leave that to religious zealots. As far as Kahn vs. C-Quam - I favored Kahn at the time, because it would have been receivable in some form with just two radios. Kahn lost. I dealt with it. Decent engineer, lousy people skills - that's all. Kahn is dead. Move on.
 
Update! I can't remember which thread it was here, but I recently posted that I "hadn't seen any HD Radio products on retail display locally in more than two years." That's no longer true.

Sunday I was the Henrietta BB with my semi-mother-in-law picking up an HDTV for her spare bedroom and I did actually see four HD Radios in blister-packs on a pegboard - two each Insignia portables and Insignia small table radios, which I gather are the same other than the cabinets. Of course both are FM-only.

I did have to ask two separate sales guys. Only one steered me to where the radios were on display with accessories like USB amplified speakers and emergency flashlight radios.
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
Really? You really think I wouldn't know the difference between the Kahn and Motorola settings on my radio? Or I couldn't tell the difference between true stereo separation and different sonic characteristics? Or that I don't know about platform motion? You seriously underestimate me!

The receiver was set to Motorola / C-Quam mode. While KMKI was broadcasting modern songs with a good deal of mono content in the middle, there was true separation. KAAM happened to broadcast one of those old "singers on on channel instruments on the other" songs from the early days of stereo. It's part of their playlist. And true to form, the song was in stereo. The thing about platform motion - it should have made the channels swap, which would have been VERY obvious on KAAM with KKOB interference. KKOB did not cause platform motion on KAAM, and there was nobody more surprised than me! There is a poster on here who was going on and on about platform motion, so that is one reason I did the test. To either confirm or disprove his assertion. I disproved it, although there was platform motion when I did the test in West Lubbock. But nobody would listen to a frequency with almost equal parts of two stations, so it was unlistenable at that point.

I am aware of the Kahn C-Quam debate. I tend to avoid religious discussions - religions like tube vs. transistor, speaker wire, Mac vs. PC, Linux vs. Windows. I will leave that to religious zealots. As far as Kahn vs. C-Quam - I favored Kahn at the time, because it would have been receivable in some form with just two radios. Kahn lost. I dealt with it. Decent engineer, lousy people skills - that's all. Kahn is dead. Move on.

Leonard is dead. His theory lives and is valid none the less. He never promoted his two receiver method as anything more than than a by product of his system. His detractors called it a "gimmick". He was a proponent of "all system" stereo decoders being included in AM stereo receivers. Although I do believe that all receivers produced by his own company were Kahn/Hazeltine system only. Nothing "religious" at all here. Leonard lost, C-QUAM won, and AM stereo went straight down the drain. I would not be surprised if there are now more MW stations running IBOC at night than are running C-QUAM!

C-QUAM worked. It just performed poorly in a "real world" MW environment. I used to listen to WLS in Harris stereo from 1,000 miles away. Many nights it sounded good on the SRF A-100 when we were sitting out in the yard. Try driving around listening to WLS on a C-QUAM radio? Platform motion and constant flipping in and out of stereo mode. WKBW 1520 in Buffalo was a solid flame thrower in mono. When they were playing oldies in C-QUAM they were impossible to listen to in stereo while driving. It sounded like a kid was constantly playing with the balance control and it always flipped back and forth between stereo and mono. It was a real bitch because you couldn't switch the radio to mono only.

I've discussed a method where co-channel stations can co-exist with minimal interference in great detail on another site. So, yes it is possible that you might hear KAAM without KKOB interference if they are both using GPS synched carriers.

Finally, Yes, I do not believe that you know the difference between the Motorola/Kahn settings on your SRF A-1.
If you understood the difference between quadrature and ISB, the SRF A-1 -- and your ears -- would have clearly explained it to you. But, since we are having this conversation...

Peace.

-
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
I am an engineer by profession, and therefore am thoroughly familiar with the scientific method. My test methodology was to select two test stations, and compare the viability of stereo reception at a distant location pre and post HD conversion. My listening location was partly dictated by reports from another poster that mountainous terrain caused problems with C-Quam. I also selected a location remote enough that any coverage problems caused by C-Quam would be immediately apparent.

- Test receiver was a Sony SRF-A1 portable, selected because I was going to hike all over the mountainous terrain to ascertain if there was any effect from it.

- Test stations were KMKI 620 and KAAM 770 from the Dallas area.

- Primary test location was a rest area in a canyon just east of Crosbyton, TX, on highway 114. This is about 290 miles distant from the test stations.

There is the problem. Or "the problems".

First, any test on an AM should be vs. the usable market area analog signal. That is, "how do they compare in the area where the station gets 90% or so of its measured listening." You were about 200 or so miles too far away for a test of the way the real world uses radio.

Then you picked two stations that are not likely to be the best financed, best equipped and best maintained in the market.

In my experience, the in-car HD signal is better than the analog signal for both KFI and KNX in the LA and surrounding areas. I can get full HD with no noise and better quality than the analog, which has noise, mostly man made, in the outer reaches of the extended LA market (northern San Diego County, Riverside/San Berdoo metro, Ventura COunty) and it actually makes noisy analog AMs listenable when one switches to HD.

Unfortunately, there are only a few hundred AMs in the US good enough to have a decent metro signal in the top 200 or so metros, and putting HD on any other station is a waste.
 
There is not a doubt in my mind that co-channel AM's would all do best if they were all synched to NIST's WWVB.
 
I have in my Chrysler van a radio with the 3rd generation CQUAM AM Stereo chip: it has a nice 'fade to mono' that virtually eliminated any 'platform motion' - at least I haven't heard any, even from a distant CQuam station in night pattern/power like the first generation had issues with.
I really think that with DSP and the like, a really decent analog AM (stereo) tuner can be made; we just need to get the manufacturers to make it for us!
 
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