Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

[DavidKaye]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

Perception is reality for them, no matter that I tell them that I checked the computer and Mediabase, many times they just don't believe me.

This is the case in areas outside of broadcasting as well. The San Francisco Board of Supervisors once refused to meet in the Hunters Point neighborhood because they said they wouldn't be safe. Yet, crime statistics clearly show that meeting in Hunters Point is SAFER than meeting at City Hall! Fewer assaults, fewer robberies, fewer burglaries, fewer murders; lower crime rate all across the board compared with Civic Center.

People believe what they want to believe and logic cannot shake them.

 

[LKellerIII]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

Quite often listeners will tell me..."how come I hear Maggie May every 2 hours? Well, they don't hear Maggie May every two hour, obviously. But, if they don't like the song, they think they hear it more often than it is actually played. Perception is reality for them, no matter that I tell them that I checked the computer and Mediabase, many times they just don't believe me. (lol)....The reverse is true for a song that someone reeeaally likes...for that person, you can't play it often enough.

I hear what you're saying and I agree. Human nature being what it is, we obsess on the things we don't like. But about 2004, KFRC really was playing at least a few of the same songs at close to the same time every afternoon - at least in afternoon drive, which was when I usually had KFRC on, because I was in the car going to pick up my kid. It wasn't that they were repeating those songs too often per se, it was that they were repeating them at the same time every day...OK, could have been almost every day, but I'm not kidding.

And I actually didn't start out hating Honky Cat - I used to think it was a pleasant, humm-able and innocuous song - but I learned to despise it after hearing it so many times on the radio.

 

[oldies76]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

Now if I lived in LA, I'm sure I would detect repetition in KRTH over time, but Kaye seems to program the station very cleverly, so there is not much repetition over a couple days time, and certainly not in the same day parts.

So true, but the real issue is about the lack of songs, lack of variety on many stations, including KRTH. Any station can have the same 400, 800 or 1200 songs rotating weekly. Once these songs have been played over time, week after week, month after month, then there's some burnout. Stations need to add in a few "lost 45's" or "lost oldies" every so often and include these with their existing lineup, to avoid burn-out on the same songs week after week after week. There's absolutely nothing wrong, to play classic hits on a "classic hits" station.

Updating a playlist is a good thing. Don't need to hear "Honky Cat", "My Girl", "Maggie May" or "Low Rider" every day of every week, do we?

 

[LKellerIII]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

Now if I lived in LA, I'm sure I would detect repetition in KRTH over time, but Kaye seems to program the station very cleverly, so there is not much repetition over a couple days time, and certainly not in the same day parts.

So true, but the real issue is about the lack of songs, lack of variety on many stations, including KRTH. Any station can have the same 400, 800 or 1200 songs rotating weekly. Once these songs have been played over time, week after week, month after month, then there's some burnout. Stations need to add in a few "lost 45's" or "lost oldies" every so often and include these with their existing lineup, to avoid burn-out on the same songs week after week after week. There's absolutely nothing wrong, to play classic hits on a "classic hits" station.

Updating a playlist is a good thing. Don't need to hear "Honky Cat", "My Girl", "Maggie May" or "Low Rider" every day of every week, do we?

Actually, the two songs I mentioned in my screed (Honky Cat and She's A Lady) (Tom Jones) were not the heavy rotation regulars, like My Guy, but two of the songs that were rotated in, then out again. But still, if you hear them 5 times a week - even for a few months, they wear thin.

I have no idea what the most repeated Classic Top 40 song is, but my first nomination is Let's Stay Together, by Al Green - it's a staple of practically every pop-rock format - Classic Hits, Oldies, Smooth Jazz, Lite Rock, Old School, etc.

Second nomination for most repeated - Brandy (You're a Fine Girl).". IMO, this is one of the most clever pop songs of the late 20th Century. But after about 5,000 repetitions, who cares?

But these days, with MP3s, itunes, etc - who needs Classic Hits radio? Program what you want on your i-pod. It's fast, it's easy, it's inexpensive.

BTW - I was driving my old Subaru today (no MP3 jack) and was listening to Oldies 1037. They seem to have grown a Johnny Mann (Drake) style jingle - one, in any case.

 

[JEREMIAH]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

When I was a jock at KXOA Sacramento in the mid 60's we played the hits but had a good balance of oldies and even played album cuts ie: Some 10 minute cuts by the stones, Pet Sounds by the Beach boys, Sgt. Pepper(all of it.)
We even played Acupulco Gold (forgot who did that). We were solid No. 1. People liked what we did. It was a time that folks were more apt to listen to new stuff not the same old repetition. We had very good demo spread, our newcasts were even listened to by State Legislators. It was a heady time.


Jerry Gordon Announcer ...the syndicated Jack B. Show

 

[oldies76]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

I have no idea what the most repeated Classic Top 40 song is, but my first nomination is Let's Stay Together, by Al Green - it's a staple of practically every pop-rock format - Classic Hits, Oldies, Smooth Jazz, Lite Rock, Old School, etc.

"Let's Stay together" is a great song, but so is "Look What You've Done For Me", but is rarely heard anymore...that's the point.

I believe the most repeated Classic Hit these days would have to be either "Brown Eyed Girl", "Boys of Summer" or "Oh Pretty Woman".

 

[recto101]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

How about Hey nineteen and Do it Again by Steely Dan it bounces and repeats on Classic Rock, AAA and NAC stations.

 

[nocomradio]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

Several stations I can pull in who run classic hits seem to think that playing Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody is necessary at least twice every week. I listen to the radio every day sometimes all day in my shop, and flip around the dial for what I can find. That song is a given, and overplayed to death, and it isn't perception, it is what I actually hear. It wouldn't be so bad if they played any of the other songs in the Queen catalog, but they never do.

America's Horse With No Name needs to be retired as well as Sugarloaf's Green Eyed Lady, The Eagles Hotel California, and the three Journey songs all radio stations seem to rotate to death. Again, these artists all had more than one hit, and tons more material, so why oh why do they need to wear out the same old stuff? I can't believe its for any reason other than just laziness.

 

[TheBigA]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

Again, these artists all had more than one hit, and tons more material, so why oh why do they need to wear out the same old stuff? I can't believe its for any reason other than just laziness.

Nope. It's because these songs attract ratings. BIG ratings. Commercial radio isn't attempting to appeal to musicologists, collectors, or snobs. Just normal people who only know one song by Queen, America, or most other older acts. Just play the hits. That's the theory that made them hits in the first place. Back in the 60s, heavy rotation was 5-6 times a day. Maybe more.

 

[oldies76]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

Just normal people who only know one song by Queen, America, or most other older acts. Just play the hits. That's the theory that made them hits in the first place. Back in the 60s, heavy rotation was 5-6 times a day. Maybe more.

"Normal" people do know, more than ONE song, by Queen, America or any artist from then, it's the "dumb" ones that don't. Obscure "album" cuts would be another matter, but we're talking regular charting hits here.

Just play the hits?? They were ALL hits then at one time or another.

"Tin Man" was just as popular as "Horse with No Name" or "Sister Golden Hair" back in the 70's.

 

[oldies76]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

America's Horse With No Name needs to be retired as well as Sugarloaf's Green Eyed Lady, The Eagles Hotel California, and the three Journey songs all radio stations seem to rotate to death. Again, these artists all had more than one hit, and tons more material, so why oh why do they need to wear out the same old stuff? I can't believe its for any reason other than just laziness.

The same goes for the Romantics "What I Like About You" an obscure song back in 1980 (#49),
that was never popular or aired, but yet we never hear "Talking in Your Sleep" which fared much, much better in 1984 (#3). Why not play both songs?? Radio is a mind boggler sometimes.

 

[TheBigA]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

"Normal" people do know, more than ONE song, by Queen, America or any artist from then, it's the "dumb" ones that don't.

Ratings agencies don't distinguish between "smart" ones and "dumb" ones. All are equal in the eyes of Arbitron.

You guys are complaining about stations that are very popular. Changing what they do to suit you won't make them more popular. We've been down that road a million times, and the facts are there for all to see.

The same goes for the "Romantics" What I Like About You" an obscure song back in 1980 (#49),
that was never popular or aired, but yet we never hear "Talking in Your Sleep" which fared much, much better in 1984 (#3). Radio today is a big mystery, isn't it?

It's not always about chart position. All it takes is for a song to be used in a TV commercial or a popular movie, and all of a sudden that song is revived in the minds of listeners. Remember: These stations test these songs frequently. Just because a song didn't chart well 30 years ago doesn't mean it can't become familiar in the minds of listeners. The other thing is the Billboard chart is national. "What I Like About You" was a bigger hit in certain local areas.

 

[oldies76]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

You guys are complaining about stations that are very popular. Changing what they do to suit you won't make them more popular. We've been down that road a million times, and the facts are there for all to see.

It's not us so much, it all the people that constantly gripe or mention that their favorite songs from the past are never played, besides the ones that are overplayed today.

I'm not saying, play all the "obscure" songs or "lower charting songs" all the time. Just mix a few in every so often, to freshen up a daily playlist and make the station sound more appealing. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[TheBigA]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

It's not us so much, it all the people that constantly gripe or mention that their favorite songs from the past are never played, besides the ones that are overplayed today.

"All the people" you're talking about is a small fraction of the audience. We've been down this road a million times before. This debate is more overplayed than the songs you're complaining about.

 

[oldies76]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

All the people" you're talking about is a small fraction of the audience. We've been down this road a million times before. This debate is more overplayed than the songs you're complaining about.

Man, ask anyone on the street and ask them how they feel about radio programming today or if their favorite songs are ever aired and hear what they have to say....you'd be shocked....seriously. And this includes any "audience" to any particular station out there.

They "accept" it, because it's the only thing they have. Same goes for television.

 

[TheBigA]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

Man, ask anyone on the street and ask them how they feel about radio programming today or if their favorite songs are ever aired and hear what they have to say....you'd be shocked....seriously.

Radio research is more scientific than asking "anyone on the street." Regardless of what "anyone on the street" might or might not say, these classic hits stations are very popular. They're popular because they play the songs large numbers of people want to hear.

That there are a small minority of complainers isn't shocking. People complain about a lot of things. Radio research is about facts and real numbers. The complainers are also complaining about SiriusXM and lots of other things. They threaten to cancel, and don't all the time.

They "accept" it, because it's the only thing they have. Same goes for television.

"Only thing they have?" Huh? It's not like this music is hard to find. They accept it because they're cheap and lazy and want others to be forced to sit through their own personal favorites. We've been down that road and it hurts the ratings. That's why radio doesn't do it.

 

[LKellerIII]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

All the people" you're talking about is a small fraction of the audience. We've been down this road a million times before. This debate is more overplayed than the songs you're complaining about.

Man, ask anyone on the street and ask them how they feel about radio programming today or if their favorite songs are ever aired and hear what they have to say....you'd be shocked....seriously. And this includes any "audience" to any particular station out there.

They "accept" it, because it's the only thing they have. Same goes for television.

Not really. With music downloads and Pandora it's easier and cheaper than ever to "create your own radio station."

40 years ago, you had to go to a record store and pay $1 for a single or $3.99 for an album. Correcting for inflation, it's cheaper to download now, and you don't have to leave your home to do it.

As for TV, all you need is a DVR, and you can watch what you want when you want to watch it.

 

[SFStatic]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

ALL research the last few years not only picks the highest testing songs to be played, but also the 'high burn' songs to be avoided or minimized. Stations have been doing this for years. Bear in mind that the average listener only is with a station about 40 minutes a time, generally 4 times a week. They don't hear the repeats that a heavy user does...before the people meter, the 100 and 300 quarter hour diary types.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

ALL research the last few years not only picks the highest testing songs to be played, but also the 'high burn' songs to be avoided or minimized. Stations have been doing this for years. Bear in mind that the average listener only is with a station about 40 minutes a time, generally 4 times a week. They don't hear the repeats that a heavy user does...before the people meter, the 100 and 300 quarter hour diary types.

In the PPM world, the average listening incident span is 11 minutes.

There still are 100+ quarter hour listeners, and P1's may listen to one station around 8 hours a week.

What has happened is that the PPM picks up a lot of hearing or very secondary listening that never made it to the diary. What that did was increase some station's cumes by as much as double. But those increases are made up of people who for the most part listen less than an hour a week. So the net result is lower TSL.

Since listening is in such short intervals, it's often hard to understand when a song might be repeated for the same listeners who last heard it...

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

Just play the hits?? They were ALL hits then at one time or another.

But the question for radio, today, is about which of those songs is a hit, today.

There are tens of thousands of songs that were hits at some given moment or time and which do nothing but drive most of today's listeners away if played.

The art and science of radio is finding only the songs that are still broad based hits and playing them in a pleasing blend.

Since the average PPM listening span is between 3 and 4 hours a week to any one station, that means that the average listener will hear perhaps 40 songs per week. The average classic hits station plays around 800 songs in full rotation, so it would take nearly half a year to hearall the songs over again. Even heavy listeners, which would be those with 7 to 8 hours a week of listening, won't hear the full library repeat for around 10 weeks.

People whose entire lives revolve around one kind of music or musical era will never be happy, so there is absolutely no way to satisfy someone like you. I see a mental picture of Quijote charging a windmill here...

"Tin Man" was just as popular as "Horse with No Name" or "Sister Golden Hair" back in the 70's.

But the appeal, today, of those three songs may be very different.