Someone posed a question on this board about the significance of the AM band. In Columbia, WVOC's best numbers are far behind them. 1320 actually has a somewhat decent lineup (if you like conservative talk) of Bortz, Hannity, and Levin. Would either of these signals benefit from an FM simulcast? And if so, what would Clear Channel of Citadel flip to make it happen?
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Is it time for FM news in Columbia?
- Thread starter whopper
- Start date
My original reply was not completely responsive.
Will FM NEWS work in Columbia. Given the ratings and revenue successes in other markets, yes. If it is properly executed. That requires the willingness to incur the costs running a fully-staffed all-news station.
If it is just an automated syndicated talk station with rip and read headlines dropped into the system, I think it would be a disappointing performer.
Will FM NEWS work in Columbia. Given the ratings and revenue successes in other markets, yes. If it is properly executed. That requires the willingness to incur the costs running a fully-staffed all-news station.
If it is just an automated syndicated talk station with rip and read headlines dropped into the system, I think it would be a disappointing performer.
I think regardless of programming, news/talk will eventually be on FM just about everywhere. Things aren't going to get any better for the AM band. Look at Greenville - Entercom added 106.3 to their "WORD" brand and they went from mediocre to doing VERY well with the FM.
WVOC on 96.7, yes that makes the most since (WSCC in Charleston has a similar lineup and has been on FM for years and does pretty well), but WISW....98.5? It's especially difficult if you want to simulcast a talker on FM in a market where there isn't really one WEAK signal to put it on.
Side note, sorta - I think WTMA in Charleston (sister to WISW) will eventually be on FM. If 96.9 there ever drops out of the 3-way country battle, I bet it will go to a TMA simulcast to better compete with 94.3 WSC.
WVOC on 96.7, yes that makes the most since (WSCC in Charleston has a similar lineup and has been on FM for years and does pretty well), but WISW....98.5? It's especially difficult if you want to simulcast a talker on FM in a market where there isn't really one WEAK signal to put it on.
Side note, sorta - I think WTMA in Charleston (sister to WISW) will eventually be on FM. If 96.9 there ever drops out of the 3-way country battle, I bet it will go to a TMA simulcast to better compete with 94.3 WSC.
DudeFan said:
In a market the size of Columbia? Not gonna happen. There are only a handful of markets in the country big enough to support the kind of staffing that an all-news station requires: New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, Philadelphia and Washington. (Boston, Dallas and Seattle have stations that are all-news by day but talk in off-hours.)
There's no other format as staffing-intensive as all-news. Your minimum staffing requirement for a single four- or five-hour news block alone is two anchors, an editor, at least one newswriter, a couple of reporters, plus the infrastructure to support them. And that's not counting a sports staff, traffic, weather, and all the other elements that somehow have to be refreshed multiple times an hour, every hour.
I've worked in the format. It takes revenues in the multiple millions of dollars a year to sustain, and that kind of revenue level simply doesn't exist in any market as small as Columbia. It's not even sustainable in much larger markets like Atlanta and Charlotte.
Scott, I don't think anyone would disagree with you. I guess I should have named this post "Will FM TALK work in Columbia?" I am talking about taking existing AM talk and simulcasting on FM like many markets are starting to experiment with. Your point is well made. Columbia would never invest what it takes to do news right.
Scott, while I totally respect your experience and I think you are correct to some extent. I think with the deep pockets to wait it out, a 6a to 7p rolling news service would probably work and be successful in this market if -- and it is an if -- you can start suctioning dollars of everyone else. Yes, you'd have to go fairly light on the staffing especially compared to a WTOP or WCBS-A, but it is not impossible with the assistance of technology to streamline some of the heavy lifting. But there is no doubt that the margins would be smaller.
Would there be a demand in the market? Absolutely. There's no radio outlet in this market to tune to for breaking news. At all. After 7p on a weekday? Forget hearing any local news at all.
Atlanta should be able to support an All-News operation. No one, in my recollection, has tried. If a top 10 (and extremely under-radio'ed) market like Atlanta can't support all-news, then this country is in deep doo-doo for a number of reasons.
Back to the issue of talk, AM 1320 has been doing fairly well these recent trends. They would probably benefit from an FM signal. At night in Northeast, the AM signal is uncopiable due to the directional antenna.
Would there be a demand in the market? Absolutely. There's no radio outlet in this market to tune to for breaking news. At all. After 7p on a weekday? Forget hearing any local news at all.
Atlanta should be able to support an All-News operation. No one, in my recollection, has tried. If a top 10 (and extremely under-radio'ed) market like Atlanta can't support all-news, then this country is in deep doo-doo for a number of reasons.
Back to the issue of talk, AM 1320 has been doing fairly well these recent trends. They would probably benefit from an FM signal. At night in Northeast, the AM signal is uncopiable due to the directional antenna.
With all due respect to DudeFan, the numbers just don't add up.
The staffing I outlined is already quite streamlined compared to what you'd find even now at a WCBS or WINS or KNX or WBZ. But let's say you cut it down even further - one field reporter per shift, for instance. And let's say you hire younger, less-experienced staffers and that you can pay them less in Columbia than you could in Boston or LA or Chicago, which is certainly true. You're still not going to get anchors you'd want to put on the air for less than $35k or $40k a year, times two per shift, times three shifts. That's $350,000 in salary a year just for anchors. Three editors (one per shift) at $30k a year is another $90,000. Three reporters at $25k a year is $75,000. Three writers at $25k a year is $75,000. So even before dealing with sports or traffic or weather - or nights or weekends - we're at nearly $600k a year in salaries just for the core of your news staff...which means close to a million bucks a year once you factor in the costs of providing benefits. And we still haven't bought a single piece of equipment, rented a studio facility, put gas in a news car or done a bit of promotion for our hypothetical station.
And remember, the cheaper you make your product, the harder it is to draw the massive cume you need to attract advertisers at the premium rates that the big all-newsers can charge...and the less you pay your people, the greater the likelihood that you'll lose them to bigger markets after a year or two on the job, which means you're spending more money now to hire and train new people. (Not as easy to do as it once was, since you no longer have the farm team of small-market newsrooms to draw from!)
But let's say, even so, that we can somehow do all that on the cheap, for total annual expenses of $1.5 million. In what scenario can you draw that much revenue out of the Columbia market for a single station, much less the $2 million or so you'd realistically need to derive even a modest profit margin?
I'm not intimately familiar with the financials of the Columbia market, but I have a hunch that there's not much more than $10 million in annual revenues for the whole market. The numbers just aren't there.
The staffing I outlined is already quite streamlined compared to what you'd find even now at a WCBS or WINS or KNX or WBZ. But let's say you cut it down even further - one field reporter per shift, for instance. And let's say you hire younger, less-experienced staffers and that you can pay them less in Columbia than you could in Boston or LA or Chicago, which is certainly true. You're still not going to get anchors you'd want to put on the air for less than $35k or $40k a year, times two per shift, times three shifts. That's $350,000 in salary a year just for anchors. Three editors (one per shift) at $30k a year is another $90,000. Three reporters at $25k a year is $75,000. Three writers at $25k a year is $75,000. So even before dealing with sports or traffic or weather - or nights or weekends - we're at nearly $600k a year in salaries just for the core of your news staff...which means close to a million bucks a year once you factor in the costs of providing benefits. And we still haven't bought a single piece of equipment, rented a studio facility, put gas in a news car or done a bit of promotion for our hypothetical station.
And remember, the cheaper you make your product, the harder it is to draw the massive cume you need to attract advertisers at the premium rates that the big all-newsers can charge...and the less you pay your people, the greater the likelihood that you'll lose them to bigger markets after a year or two on the job, which means you're spending more money now to hire and train new people. (Not as easy to do as it once was, since you no longer have the farm team of small-market newsrooms to draw from!)
But let's say, even so, that we can somehow do all that on the cheap, for total annual expenses of $1.5 million. In what scenario can you draw that much revenue out of the Columbia market for a single station, much less the $2 million or so you'd realistically need to derive even a modest profit margin?
I'm not intimately familiar with the financials of the Columbia market, but I have a hunch that there's not much more than $10 million in annual revenues for the whole market. The numbers just aren't there.
This is one of those rather difficult situations I was referring to - the two FM's that I think would simulcast it, 98.5 or 103.1, aren't doing fantastic but the ratings aren't terrible, from what I can see. Would one be worth ditching for a simulcast of WISW? I would think 98.5 is pretty cheap to run (not sure about WLXC) and it does decently.DudeFan said:
This is basicly the same question I asked on the AM thread since it has a lot of the same elements. My personal thought is that 96.7 has the best signal verses rating crunch to shift to simulcast with AM talk or become an FM talk station. It is a shame that a station like 96.7 couldn't go news part time and talk the rest and afford the expences for the news side of things. Do you think an AM station could get an FM translator an go news/talk enough to make a decent station.
I feel these AM's getting translators is kind of a "band aid." These stations are going to have to go FM with a decent signal that has wide coverage eventually. I don't think translators are a long-term solution to the problem, which is the decline of the AM band all around.Gatekeeper007 said:
w00t said:
I know, I used to work there. (Cox/Atlanta) Yes, they DO have long form talk, for sure, but they have a fully staffed news department, too, that does a great job. I guess it's considered news/talk, but it's heavy on the news, too. That's why I wanted the parameters the initial poster considered in deciding what was solely "news".
The revenue is only the beginning of the issue. The demographics for Columbia make an FM talker (or news) out of the question for now. WVOC numbers are typical for a mid-sized city. WISW according to the latest book tanked.
The stations that get it right like WLW, WCBS, WBBM have a news staff, totally different from a DJ ripping and reading from the AP wire which would be the case at most stations today.
The stations that get it right like WLW, WCBS, WBBM have a news staff, totally different from a DJ ripping and reading from the AP wire which would be the case at most stations today.
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