Is it time to end AM night skywave protection?

[KeithE4]

But the horse is out of the barn. Those good old days are gone and when you pick up one of these giants today, it isn't anything special. Sad, but time marches on.

Those "good old days" only lasted about 25 years, from the end of most prime-time network radio in the mid 1950s to rock's almost total switch to FM in the late '70s and early '80s. Before that, there were four major program services, aka networks, that aired on 95% of the stations then on the air: NBC (Red), CBS, NBC Blue/ABC, and Mutual.

If you were DXing the AM band on a Sunday night in the late 1940s, you'd hear Jack Benny on 1 or 2 dozen stations if you lived in the East or Midwest. Today, you'll hear ESPN Radio or a "best of" talk-show rerun on 1 or 2 dozen stations. And there was a reason for having the 50kW blowtorches then, and it wasn't just to cover a major market. In many small cities and towns, those stations were their only access to network radio since a lot of their own stations were daytimers or there was no local radio at all.

 

[TheBigA]

In many small cities and towns, those stations were their only access to network radio since a lot of their own stations were daytimers or there was no local radio at all.

True but there was also access to local entertainment, such as the KWKH Louisiana Hayride or the WSM Grand Ole Opry. Hard to imagine but the record labels and musicians union prevented radio stations from playing recorded music prior to 1940. So the only way people had to listen to popular music was by live performances on the big radio stations. This started to wind down in the 50s with the rise of DJs playing records. One of the few remaining examples is the Metropolitan Opera.

The need for skywave today is more about quality of the signal over the noise floor rather than reaching 16 states.

 

[semoochie]

Those "good old days" only lasted about 25 years, from the end of most prime-time network radio in the mid 1950s to rock's almost total switch to FM in the late '70s and early '80s. Before that, there were four major program services, aka networks, that aired on 95% of the stations then on the air: NBC (Red), CBS, NBC Blue/ABC, and Mutual.

If you were DXing the AM band on a Sunday night in the late 1940s, you'd hear Jack Benny on 1 or 2 dozen stations if you lived in the East or Midwest. Today, you'll hear ESPN Radio or a "best of" talk-show rerun on 1 or 2 dozen stations. And there was a reason for having the 50kW blowtorches then, and it wasn't just to cover a major market. In many small cities and towns, those stations were their only access to network radio since a lot of their own stations were daytimers or there was no local radio at all.

I believe that the big push for daytimers was after World War II, not so much before that.

 

[davideduardo]

I believe that the big push for daytimers was after World War II, not so much before that.

Correct. Following WW II, the count of licensed stations jumped.

Pre-War, there were roughly 800 stations. By 1950, there were 2200 AM stations and 1,000 licensed FM stations.

Prior to the war, non-network stations were either in areas too close to other affiliates (such as suburbs and nearby towns) or in cities where there were more than 4 stations. New York City had 14 AMs, 10 of which were independent as an example. And places like Ponca City, OK, Olean, NY and Owensboro, KY had stations, but no network affiliate. Around half of the 813 stations at the start of 1940 were not network affiliates.

By the end of the decade, network affiliates had not grown anywhere as significantly as the number of stations because most viable markets were already covered.

Radio revenue quadrupled from 1940 to 1949, with the bigger part of that growth being in local sales. And by the time that Petrillo and the AFM lost their stranglehold on the playing of recordings, there were plenty of stations that played records as well as other non-network fare.

The first Top 40 station, in 1952, was a daytimer in Omaha... a market that 10 years before only had 3 stations. Stations like the legendary KLIF in Dallas began as daytimers in that era, as well.

I did a count of one representative state in 1940: Ohio. 28 AM stations, only 3 daytimers. There were 63 AMs by 1949, and 18 were daytimers. From only about 10% of all stations in 1940 to nearly a third... a big growth in the post WW II years.

Of course, those post-War daytimers were not generally network affiliates since network prime time before the 1952 lift of the TV freeze was in the evening.

But the bulk of radio revenue, well before TV became common, was already coming more and more from local accounts. The agency system of producing client's own shows was declining, and broadcasters could already smell the money that could be taken from newspapers... an industry that did initially not understand non-network radio and definitely did not get television. Example: The Cleveland Plain Dealer sold WHK to Kluge in the late 50's because "we knew that radio was dead and it was better to get back something than wait for the station to be worthless" (quote from the patriarch of the ownership family).

 

[Kelly A]

watch the last truly viable big AM signals become something less than viable. And then what?

Isn't that already happening without any change in night protections? I don't think any AM station in the country is valued at even one third of what it was twenty years ago.

 

[kevtronics]

This will hurt the big stations more than it helps the little stations. And how many small AM stations are really asking for a marginally better nighttime signal, anyway? They know that's not going to keep them financially viable for much longer than if there was no change. And if enough of those small stations boost their nighttime signals, it'll be like the "graveyard channels" all across the band, and any gains in coverage would be more than wiped out by the increase in interference.

My proposal to the FCC was to migrate Channel 6 TV stations to other channels, which would free up 87.7 and 87.9 MHz for use as translators for AM stations. But fat chance that's gonna happen...

 

[TheBigA]

This will hurt the big stations more than it helps the little stations. And how many small AM stations are really asking for a marginally better nighttime signal, anyway?

If they don't have an FM translator, it won't matter. Not much money to be made at night anyway.

 

[kb3ouk]

Also, the only benefit will be to stations on US clears, I don't see anyone that shares frequency with a foreign (Canadian, Mexican, etc.) clear channel being given anything more than they already have since that would violate existing treaties. Everyone keeps bringing WSM up, most of the time here in south central PA they are unlistenable except for early mornings, most evenings there is so much adjacent channel splatter from 660 and some distant cochannel interference that listening to WSM is useless. IBOC from adjacent clear channels kills reception already, just look at 1020. I can't hear KDKA at all here if WBZ has IBOC on, about a month ago I believe they had it off or something and I was able to hear KDKA for the first time in years. Honestly, if the FCC allows skywave protection to be dropped, I don't look for too many class As to object to it, and at the same time I don't look for too many of the daytimers/etc. that share those clears to jump on the opportunity, given that they already have a translator, which is going to be the bulk of their nighttime listening. The only stations I see trying to take advantage are those without a translator that could actually benefit from increased power because they are 24/7 with no translator, and those that are running DA-N that could go ND-N, which reduces maintenance costs on the DA. I see a good number of stations going ND-N with a handful of watts at night so they can dump the rest of the array and just run a single tower.

 

[WJPYFM]

AM broadcasting was great back in the day but technology is moving forward and it really on death’s door. The issue is two parts. 1st is the programming. Is there anyone that wants to listen? I don’t like sports, ethnic, or religious programming so AM does not speak to me or my family. Yes I do like music so I still like some AM stations but that brings me to my 2nd issue is noise. If I wanted to listen to a clear channel AM station in my house there is just too much noise from electrical devices. But the band also suffers from transmitter noise from stations still on the air with low power. Anyone listening in a car will hear their local station but underneath is this noise of other stations coming in. I say clean up the band by 1st shutting down any station less than 1kw at night. Most people will stream the station or listen on FM via translator or on HD sub channel if the content is worth listening to.

 

[boombox4]

But the band also suffers from transmitter noise from stations still on the air with low power. Anyone listening in a car will hear their local station but underneath is this noise of other stations coming in. I say clean up the band by 1st shutting down any station less than 1kw at night. Most people will stream the station or listen on FM via translator or on HD sub channel if the content is worth listening to.

Chances are that any station that is lower than 1KW at night isn't causing much interference to anyone. It's the higher powered stations that tend to interfere with other stations hundreds of miles away.

 

[semoochie]

Chances are that any station that is lower than 1KW at night isn't causing much interference to anyone. It's the higher powered stations that tend to interfere with other stations hundreds of miles away.

No, you might need 5KW to cover an area but 500 watts skipping in can do an inordinate amount of damage!

 

[boombox4]

No, you might need 5KW to cover an area but 500 watts skipping in can do an inordinate amount of damage!

I think that would depend on the distance of the 500 W station.

The only interference I've heard to locals is from distant 10 and 50 KW'ers. Maybe your experience has been different.

For example, semi-local 850 station KHHO (10KW nights) sometimes has QRM from KOA Denver, but you have to turn the radio to hear it. Local 950 KJR is 50KW at night, and a 1000 watt station 300 miles away is inaudible, even in the null.

On regional, non-local channels, I'd agree with your point, though. 500W can go a considerable distance, but for interfering with local stations? Maybe if the local station is another 500 watter.

 

[xmtrland]

For example, semi-local 850 station KHHO (10KW nights)

KHHO is 1KW nights with a 3 tower directional pattern with a null towards Denver. It's 10KW day with a 2 tower directional.

 

[boombox4]

KHHO is 1KW nights with a 3 tower directional pattern with a null towards Denver. It's 10KW day with a 2 tower directional.

They must have dropped power since the list I use was compiled. Thanks for the update.

It still makes my point though. 1KW at night, and KOA is only audible -- and only readable during good DX conditions -- in the null, and I'm maybe 15-20 miles away from their TX site.

 

[Ai4i]

I would like to add this suggestion:
When the commission permitted almost all graveyard-channel stations to increase their nighttime power from 250 watts to a kilowatt,
they knew that their interference-free contours would not change at all, but the stations would cover their markets with 6db more umph.
By that same reasoning, why not do the same for expanded band stations that reduce power from ten kilowatts in the day to one kilowatt at night?
Let them keep their 10Kw signal going through the darkness
I have argued for this before; two 10-watt stations near each other that both increase to one megawatt will have basically the same interference-free contours toward each other as before.

 

[semoochie]

They must have dropped power since the list I use was compiled. Thanks for the update.

It still makes my point though. 1KW at night, and KOA is only audible -- and only readable during good DX conditions -- in the null, and I'm maybe 15-20 miles away from their TX site.

KHHO(the old KTAC)was 10KW/1KW 45 years ago. How old is your list?

 

[boombox4]

KHHO(the old KTAC)was 10KW/1KW 45 years ago. How old is your list?

2011. Got it off an AM DXers site, which I think went away. The guy running it lost interest in MW. It's a fairly complete list, though -- freq, stations in the US and Canada, format.... Obviously, not all of it was completely accurate.

Has a lot of CPs listed (none of which will be built, obviously), so he must have gotten the info off the FCC as well as other sites. Maybe he typed in one too many zeros when he entered the info for KTAC/KHHO.

 

[boombox4]

I would like to add this suggestion:
When the commission permitted almost all graveyard-channel stations to increase their nighttime power from 250 watts to a kilowatt,
they knew that their interference-free contours would not change at all, but the stations would cover their markets with 6db more umph.
By that same reasoning, why not do the same for expanded band stations that reduce power from ten kilowatts in the day to one kilowatt at night?
Let them keep their 10Kw signal going through the darkness
I have argued for this before; two 10-watt stations near each other that both increase to one megawatt will have basically the same interference-free contours toward each other as before.

I agree. I don't understand why such a vacant band as the X-Band has to be so underutilized at night.

 

[Ai4i]

There is a way to handle the nighttime skywave interference issue within the current legal structure.
Radio licenses are issued for limited periods of time with implied but not guaranteed renewals.
Inform all stations that when their current licenses expire, they will be given new sets of parameters by which to operate.
Most of the original clears will be reduced to 10KW and most stations will either use their day patterns at night,
become non-da, or have nulls to honor international agreements.
I never thought I could be such a heavy-handed statist.

 

[davideduardo]

There is a way to handle the nighttime skywave interference issue within the current legal structure.
Radio licenses are issued for limited periods of time with implied but not guaranteed renewals.
Inform all stations that when their current licenses expire, they will be given new sets of parameters by which to operate.
Most of the original clears will be reduced to 10KW and most stations will either use their day patterns at night,
become non-da, or have nulls to honor international agreements.
I never thought I could be such a heavy-handed statist.

The problem is that 10 kw is not enough to cover larger metros today. In fact, on one market of 18 million the group that built it in 1999 felt 100 kw non-directional was not enough so they directionalized slightly towards the noisy center fo the market.