Is Miami The Worst Major Market For News/Talk

[briancraig]

One station (WIOD) and it can't get a 2 share. Does that make Miami the worst city for English language news/talk?

 

[davideduardo]

One station (WIOD) and it can't get a 2 share. Does that make Miami the worst city for English language news/talk?

WAQI, WSUA and WQBA are all quite good talk stations. And that explains why the English talk market is reduced; half the population is better served by Spanish language stations.

 

[ScottBurns]

I have said this before, but a little diversity in English-language talk programming would help. I know i probably is not fair to compare today's talk market to that of the past, but mixing in some local, more liberal voices might help. After all, some of the most successful talkers in South Florida history - including Neil Rogers and Randi Rhodes - hosted local, liberal shows.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

I have said this before, but a little diversity in English-language talk programming would help. I know i probably is not fair to compare today's talk market to that of the past, but mixing in some local, more liberal voices might help. After all, some of the most successful talkers in South Florida history - including Neil Rogers and Randi Rhodes - hosted local, liberal shows.

Ha ha, welcome to the "one size fits all" world of Clear Channel!

 

[davideduardo]

After all, some of the most successful talkers in South Florida history - including Neil Rogers and Randi Rhodes - hosted local, liberal shows.

Remember that none of those voices made the transition from diary to PPM very well.

 

[ScottBurns]

If I am not mistaken, Neil and PPM overlapped by only about 10 months. Randi Rhodes' local program was long gone by the time that PPM came around.

I trust your professional opinion, David, and not that it matters, but I don't believe in the validity of PPM.

 

[davideduardo]

If I am not mistaken, Neil and PPM overlapped by only about 10 months. Randi Rhodes' local program was long gone by the time that PPM came around.

I was generalizing based on your comment about "some of the most successful talkers..." The PPM pretty much showed that the "loyalty" factor shown in the diary where listeners wrote that they tuned in for long periods of time to favorite, memorable shows was just not true in reality. Thus the decline of WQAM from the market's #1 biller, and the general state of talk in Miami overall.

I trust your professional opinion, David, and not that it matters, but I don't believe in the validity of PPM.

It certainly beats the diary!

 

[Ai4i]

PPM is totally objective and is one step closer to instant electronic feedback.
The transition will have become complete when we all use the web for all our listening.
Meanwhile, even the LudwigEnt.com platform promises realtime measurement in that respect.

 

[ScottBurns]

Not to take the conversation in a completely different direction, but there are some good arguments against PPM:
1. PPM doesn't take into account the difference between background radio listening (such as in an office) and stations with which listeners are actively involved (such as the Talk format).
2. PPM does not tell us much about listener preferences - especially due to the reason stated above.
3. Respected industry website Radio InSights claims, when comparing diaries to PPM, that "Neither Arbitron nor any other organization has done the work to really determine which methodology is more accurate." Read it at http://harkerresearch.typepad.com/radioinsights/2009/05/who-says-ppm-is-more-accurate.html.
4. From the same website, the following example is illustrative: "If you walk past the stereos at Walmart on the way to the battery section carrying a PPM, the station playing on the radio will get credit, even though you weren’t even aware of what was playing. If you were a diary keeper, you probably wouldn’t write the station down when you got to filling out your diary."

 

[benale]

WFTL does local talk and they put a decent signal into Broward and North Dade. There are three all sports stations in South Florida..another three if you count 104.3, 106.3 and 760. Yes, I know 104.3 and 106.3 are simulcasts of their AM's, but that's two more sports signals.

How does WINZ survive? A .2 share 6 plus? I can't imagine them doing much better in the money demos. Three full time sports stations is a bit overkill.

 

[Gregg]

Could All-News Work Again in Miami?

Miami is the only large market in the U.S. without an All-News station. An All-News station is #1 in San Francisco, Philadelphia and Detroit. An All-News station is #2 in Chicago, Washington and Boston. Among the biggest earning radio stations in the U.S., WTOP Washington is #1. WCBS and WINS NYC, and WBBM Chicago are also in the Top 10.

Houston and Atlanta, like Miami, had been markets with no All-News station till they got one, both on FM, last year. New York, San Francisco and Washington now have TWO All-News stations.

In Miami, if a tanker truck overturns on I-95 or the Dolphin Expressway, and it happens outside morning drive, how would any radio listener know? If you want to know the weather while driving outside of 5-10am weekdays, do you know when your station would tell you? Other than top of the hour newscasts on WIOD, if you wanted to hear the latest news, where would you go? It seems inconceivable that in the 12th largest market, you can't get news around the clock or get Traffic and Weather Together Every Ten Minutes on the radio.

Some years ago 940 WINZ was an All-News station. If you watch the Don Henley video of the song "Smuggler's Blues," the video ends with the sound of the radio tuned to WINZ reporting on the crime Don Henley's character had just been involved in. How odd that Miami had All-News on the radio in the 80s but not today.

 

[Gregg]

David said >>>
WAQI, WSUA and WQBA are all quite good talk stations. And that explains why the English talk market is reduced; half the population is better served by Spanish language stations. <<<

But even if you remove the Spanish-speaking population from Miami, that still leaves an English-speaking population similar to St. Louis or Kansas City. Those cities have several Talk stations. They're not limited to one WIOD.

And when you consider that English-speaking population is probably older than in other markets, you wonder why the Talk format, which skews older, isn't better represented in Market #12.

 

[davideduardo]

But even if you remove the Spanish-speaking population from Miami, that still leaves an English-speaking population similar to St. Louis or Kansas City. Those cities have several Talk stations. They're not limited to one WIOD.

But two of the best AM signals, at least for Dade County, are taken for Spanish language talkers... 1140 and 710.

The only true day and night full coverage AM in the market is 610. 560, besides billing quite well as a sports outlet, is not able to put a good night signal over the whole market. 940 has the same issue... bad night coverage of much of Broward. 790 is so bad at night with that flashlight beam signal from the swamp across central Dade that they had to buy an FM move-in to complement it and get coverage of the places most of the English speakers live.

It's hard for any talker to get traction if the signal does not fully cover the market.

I think that is part of the reason why there is no all-news station in the market, either. There is no adequate AM signal, and nobody wants to take an FM to news given the high costs of the format. There is a reason why local-content all news stations are limited to the top 10 markets... cost vs. available revenue. The jury is still out over Atlanta and Houston on all news, but neither of those markets is over half Hispanic and neither has such a high percentage of Spanish dominants.

 

[davideduardo]

1. PPM doesn't take into account the difference between background radio listening (such as in an office) and stations with which listeners are actively involved (such as the Talk format).

Advertisers more or less demanded that radio provide electronic measurement. Since ratings are bought mostly to establish a metric for ad rates, stations accepted the higher cost. And advertisers got what they wanted: a measure of impressions, not of people´s memory ability in filling out a diary.

Remember, the same attitude used in buying billboards is used in buying other media. Nobody looks at a billboard on purpose (unless you are traveling and need gas and food ) and billboard rates are set based on cars that drive by... impressions, not involvement. Advertisers wanted the same measure for radio... how many people are exposed to an ad.

2. PPM does not tell us much about listener preferences - especially due to the reason stated above.

Sure it does. Just filter on a minimum number of hours a week, and you start seeing which stations generate good, loyal TSL. It's one click in the PPM Analysis Tool from Arbitron.

3. Respected industry website Radio InSights claims, when comparing diaries to PPM, that "Neither Arbitron nor any other organization has done the work to really determine which methodology is more accurate."

It's not really about compared accuracy... it's about what advertisers want and will use. In any case, it is pretty easy to see that the diary measured cume, TSL and memory skills, while the PPM measures just cume and TSL. That alone is an improvement.... although it resulted in 40% lower PUR's in the PPM markets.

4. From the same website, the following example is illustrative: "If you walk past the stereos at Walmart on the way to the battery section carrying a PPM, the station playing on the radio will get credit, even though you weren’t even aware of what was playing. If you were a diary keeper, you probably wouldn’t write the station down when you got to filling out your diary."

That statement is a bit naïve. First, to give credit to a station in PPM, five discreet minutes in a given quarter hour have to register PPM detection. Someone passing by a radio at WalMart will not spend enough time for the five minute minimum... nor will someone buying coffee at a cart on the street. And the incidental listening that does get registered tends to be for short periods of time, and thus does not really contribute to the TSL of a station anyway.

The real issue with the diary is that it depended on memory. People tended to round up the listening to favorite stations, and not even write in the listening to stations they did select and use, but not quite as often. So much "secondary and tertiary" listening did not get written in a diary because it was not as memorable.

 

[benale]

Nobody mentions WFTL. They have a nice signal in Broward and most of Dade. Unless they don't subscribe, I didn't even see them in the latest ratings. They run a news block in the morning and local talk until 6PM. Paul Barsky does an entertaining show in the afternoon,but I wonder if the station would better serve the area with a news block from 3 to 6PM, considering there is no all news station in South Florida.

Even Tampa,Orlando and Titusville have all news stations..of course they are America's News affiliates and only run news during weekdays until 7PM or so,but at least it's something.

Many all news stations only run during the week. On a Saturday night, for example, I think there are only eleven stations nationwide that run news and 4 out those 11 are in New York and Washington DC.

 

[davideduardo]

Nobody mentions WFTL. They have a nice signal in Broward and most of Dade. Unless they don't subscribe, I didn't even see them in the latest ratings. T

WFTL's 50 kw day / 25 kw night facility barely puts a 5 mV/m over Coral Springs and misses Margate and Pompano. At night, it is even tighter (and farther to the south, the Cuban interference is brutal). That's a station for the Palm Beaches.

It's been pretty well proven that it takes near a 10 mV/m signal to get in-home and at-work listening in noisy metro areas; about 70% of radio listening takes place in those locations.

In the Oct, Nov and Dec surveys, averaged, the station was 36th in WPB and 45th in Miami.

 

[gordonlee]

Re: Could All-News Work Again in Miami?

In Miami, if a tanker truck overturns on I-95 or the Dolphin Expressway, and it happens outside morning drive, how would any radio listener know? If you want to know the weather while driving outside of 5-10am weekdays, do you know when your station would tell you? Other than top of the hour newscasts on WIOD, if you wanted to hear the latest news, where would you go?

Well, fortunately there is a live person doing news at WIOD beyond morning drive. The problem is that after 6pm, they're all automated and there isn't anyone in the building (so to speak). Those "local" newscasts heard in the evenings and overnights are recorded in the afternoon.

Same goes for the "live" traffic reports heard after 6pm. They're recorded (though apparently within a half hour of airing). And let's not get started on the weather forecasts that play after 6pm. I can't tell you how many times on a Wednesday for example I'm hearing, "Partly sunny today with a chance of showers, more showers tonight and sunny again on Wednesday..." Uh... you're playing yesterday's pre-recorded weather forecast!

WIOD is (mostly) a horrible station, but to their credit, they're trying hard to keep a local show during PM drive.

 

[Ai4i]

The police would direct them to NW 7'th St. or Ave.

 

[Ai4i]

This early add for "service 610" will soon be replaced with a pic of a metromover with the number 100.3 in front.
Thanks to country singer, Josh Turner.