Is PPM working? Is the methodology flawed?

[MisterRadio]

Now that we have had a couple of books on the PPM system, what do you think about how its working? My personal opinion is that the methodology is flawed. Here are a couple of points:

1) The cost of putting the little People Meters out there is more than sending out the diaries, so Arbitron is sending out less. This is bound to mess with the sample size and cause some statistical anomolies.

2) I think that initially, wearing the meters was a unique thing but I have to believe that novelty is wearing off. I especially think that the coveted Men 25-54 demo is being undersampled.

3) One of the differences with the meters is they measure "hearing" instead of "listening". I was sitting in a restaurant the other day and realized after about 20 minutes that Majic 95 was playing in the background. If I would have had a meter on, it would have registered me listening to Majic for a half hour when I wasn't listening at all. It was just on.

That's my take. Please discuss.

 

[dallasboyz]

both ways are heavily flawed.

at least its more "true" than diary. Where someone could just write down whatever they wanted/remembered.

its a step in the right direction. But its far from "right"

 

[DominiqueRadio]

In my opinion I feel Arbitron should create a cell phone app to also serve the purpose of a PPM meter. This would greatly reduce cost and allow Arbitron to get more people involved in the process.

 

[fredcantu]

The intrusiveness of the process has always been a problem. In these times when everyone is so concerned about their privacy, how are you going to get people to carry PPM pagers or hook Meter boxes to their TV. Most people just won't think it's worth it to them.

 

[DominiqueRadio]

The intrusiveness of the process has always been a problem. In these times when everyone is so concerned about their privacy, how are you going to get people to carry PPM pagers or hook Meter boxes to their TV. Most people just won't think it's worth it to them.

I somewhat agree. However this is why Arbitron offers the almighty dollar gives them a reason to do it. Money is a great incentive for joining and taking part of PPM.

Sure privacy is an issue, but privacy issues, cost, and other reasons only further justify the need for a PPM mobile application. Anyone agree?

 

[dallasboyz]

The intrusiveness of the process has always been a problem. In these times when everyone is so concerned about their privacy, how are you going to get people to carry PPM pagers or hook Meter boxes to their TV. Most people just won't think it's worth it to them.

I somewhat agree. However this is why Arbitron offers the almighty dollar gives them a reason to do it. Money is a great incentive for joining and taking part of PPM.

Sure privacy is an issue, but privacy issues, cost, and other reasons only further justify the need for a PPM mobile application. Anyone agree?

obviously a mobile app is needed. they are already working on one.

 

[MisterRadio]

The intrusiveness of the process has always been a problem. In these times when everyone is so concerned about their privacy, how are you going to get people to carry PPM pagers or hook Meter boxes to their TV. Most people just won't think it's worth it to them.

I somewhat agree. However this is why Arbitron offers the almighty dollar gives them a reason to do it. Money is a great incentive for joining and taking part of PPM.

Sure privacy is an issue, but privacy issues, cost, and other reasons only further justify the need for a PPM mobile application. Anyone agree?

obviously a mobile app is needed. they are already working on one.

The question of with a mobile app is just how are you going to make it work. On just about any phone, once you start an app running, it puts an extra drain on the battery. Plus, on many phones, only one app can run at a time. So, if you make a call or surf the web, then the PPM app will stop functioning.

I really think they need to use a combination of diaries and PPM. Both methods are flawed, but both also have their positives. I just hope that Arbitron doesn't sit back on their laurels thinking that they have found the ultimate method and go no further.

 

[DominiqueRadio]

The question of with a mobile app is just how are you going to make it work. On just about any phone, once you start an app running, it puts an extra drain on the battery. Plus, on many phones, only one app can run at a time. So, if you make a call or surf the web, then the PPM app will stop functioning.

I really think they need to use a combination of diaries and PPM. Both methods are flawed, but both also have their positives. I just hope that Arbitron doesn't sit back on their laurels thinking that they have found the ultimate method and go no further.

In my opinion battery drain is a small price to pay for getting paid to take part of PPM. Also, having both PPM and diaries is like having a horse drawn carriage and a corvette. Maybe a different way to tabulate ratings is needed?????

 

[willdav713]

I think Arbitron should use all of the above. There are some people like me who don't text, and rarely use a cell phone thus have prepaid. I prefer my VOIP phone plus my Lifeline telephone with DSL. The rates are 1.9 cents a minute state to state, in state, Canada, and Mexico.

I wish Arbitron would send me a diary. The problem with diaries (or any mailed survey) is they tend to give them out to people who have listed landline telephone numbers and addresses (excluding apts). Take Nielsen for instance they call you to tell you a survey is being done in the area they send you the diary you fill it out and send it back to them, and they create statistics. Because of the analog landline vs. cell phones and digital mediums diarys don't cover as complete a picture as they did 11 years ago.

On the PPM Fred made an interesting point about privacy. I would like to add further with people worried about idenity theft and after the Patriot Act, and FISA they don't want some freaky black box hooked up to their stereo. People are more likely to answer a diary if it was done online. You would get the Greenies interested by doing so.

I would fill a diary out online if Arbitron sent it to me. Of course I would list 10:30 to 12:10AM every Saturday on KROX, KXBT, KXXS (when I can pick up the signal) various timings and 9:00pm to 9:38pm Monday thru Friday on KBPA.Since KKMJ dropped Super Songs of the 70s they wouldn't be listed on my diary

 

[grantchester]

Properly adjusted statistical samples should be accurate. The PPM is better than diary, because it shows minute by minute listening (if not hearing). I would suggest combining three things: diary, PPM and personal interviews.
Diary methodology rewarded stations with active, engaged listeners who are loyal to their station choices. PPM rewards passive exposure. I think it would take personal interviews to determine quantity and quality of listening.
But for stations in all but the top markets, sales (especially direct sales) is more dependent on results than ratings.

 

[davideduardo]

I think Arbitron should use all of the above.

The problem is that the PPM uses an ongoing panel, the diary uses a weekly sample and personal interviews are coincidental. Combining methodologies is very challenging.

I wish Arbitron would send me a diary. The problem with diaries (or any mailed survey) is they tend to give them out to people who have listed landline telephone numbers and addresses (excluding apts).

For both the diary and the PPM, Arbitron incorporates, in theory, a proportional sample of cell phone only households. And in the PPM, they use address based recruiting (or are expanding it) and GeoZones to get a better sample, proportional for non-phone homes and for geographic diversity. But if you do the math, you'll be picked to be in the survey about once every 150 years.

 

[davideduardo]

obviously a mobile app is needed. they are already working on one.

Arbitron has been working on incorporating PPM technology into cellular phones for over 10 years. The issue is finding a solution to the problem of having different phones with microphones with different directionality, sensitivity and response curves. In theory, MRC accreditation would require the same ability / lack of ability characteristics on every device or some would detect and others would not in identical situations.

This gives new meaning to the age-old question of "can you hear me now?"

 

[DMcCloy]

I feel PPMs, though not perfected, are the correct step for Arbitron. Look at KVET-FM. That station ran the ratings every book in the diary era. Now in PPMs it dropped significantly and had to shift format to bring it up. KVET is one of those stations that all diary markets have that have "phantom cume," those diary keepers who forget to fill their diaries out as they listen and then in the end just fill out their 'best guess' to what they listened to and when. Big name legacy stations are, in my opinion, almost always the beneficiary of those diary keepers. PPMs take the hassle out of reporters hands.

PPMs change advertising for radio stations, too. Advertising is not about getting people to remember their name when reporting, it's about getting them to dial in the station right then and there and listen.

Again, I think the PPM system will need tweaking and reworking to get it to be a 'perfect' system, but at least compared to diaries it's in the right direction.

 

[fredcantu]

That Phantom Cume was real enough to KVET's children's hospital radiothon.
After climbing year after year, the take this year was $150,000 lower than last year.
Apparently phantom listeners have more disposable income than PPM listeners.

 

[dallasboyz]

That Phantom Cume was real enough to KVET's children's hospital radiothon.
After climbing year after year, the take this year was $150,000 lower than last year.
Apparently phantom listeners have more disposable income than PPM listeners.

or maybe you've seen the money drop only in the last few years because the economy is so bad.

I bet there is a correlation there

 

[mmnassour]

This is Austin.....our economy's never bad!


(Unless you're selling for Clear Channel! )

 

[fredcantu]

That Phantom Cume was real enough to KVET's children's hospital radiothon.
After climbing year after year, the take this year was $150,000 lower than last year.
Apparently phantom listeners have more disposable income than PPM listeners.

or maybe you've seen the money drop only in the last few years because the economy is so bad.

I bet there is a correlation there

The radiothon receipts back me up. The Radiothon has been defying the economy until now.

2008-- $375,289 (source allaccess.com)

2009-- $400,693 (source CC press release)

2010-- $469,604 (source hospital press release)

2011-- $311,000 (source allaccess.com)

 

[dallasboyz]

That Phantom Cume was real enough to KVET's children's hospital radiothon.
After climbing year after year, the take this year was $150,000 lower than last year.
Apparently phantom listeners have more disposable income than PPM listeners.

or maybe you've seen the money drop only in the last few years because the economy is so bad.

I bet there is a correlation there

proves my point even more...

its one bad year. Its not like the system has collapsed.

The radiothon receipts back me up. The Radiothon has been defying the economy until now.

2008-- $375,289 (source allaccess.com)

2009-- $400,693 (source CC press release)

2010-- $469,604 (source hospital press release)

2011-- $311,000 (source allaccess.com)

 

[austingeezer]

That Phantom Cume was real enough to KVET's children's hospital radiothon.
After climbing year after year, the take this year was $150,000 lower than last year.
Apparently phantom listeners have more disposable income than PPM listeners.

or maybe you've seen the money drop only in the last few years because the economy is so bad.

I bet there is a correlation there

You're not reading close enough, dallasboyz. As Fred pointed out, the total has gone UP every year UNTIL this year. The economy was a disaster in 2008, and STILL the radiothon total went up in '08 and '09. Why? Because K-VET listeners WERE STILL CONNECTED to the station. Now, they are no longer connected to K-VET, thanks to all the changes. What's left are PPMs, and, as Fred has pointed out, they simply don't care as much.

 

[DMcCloy]

That Phantom Cume was real enough to KVET's children's hospital radiothon.
After climbing year after year, the take this year was $150,000 lower than last year.
Apparently phantom listeners have more disposable income than PPM listeners.

What you're saying is that, hypothetically, 100% of the listeners donated each year and therefore because less money was raised this year there are less listeners this year compared to past years. That is flawed logic. There could be any number of factors to determine why less money was raised this year compared to years previous. Bottom line is when PPMs started recording what people are actually hearing compared to what they remember hearing KVET's numbers dropped. When KVET shifted format, more PPMs began picking up the signal again.