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Is Rap Really Music?

V

valkyrie777

An honest question seeking serious replies...


As a musician (singer) and a radio guy, I'm having a hard time reconciling certain pieces of performance as "music". "Rap" is the offender. I find it to be "spoken word" and not "music"...in the strictest sense.

Tunes that I can hear as "music", although containing lots of "Rap", are "Feel Good, Inc"/Gorillaz, "Goodies"/Ciara and "Grind With Me"/Pretty Ricky. Nice musical hooks run throughout.

Pieces that I CAN'T hear as "music" include "Back Then"/Mike Jones and "Just A Little Bit"/50 cent. They're just "spoken word" with a rhythym and/or a monotonous one or two note background. There are NO musical hooks anywhere on these pieces of performances.

And, yet...ALL the above pieces are lumped together as "Music".

Back in the day, Walter Brennan did a piece of performance called "Old Rivers", Lorne Greene did "Ringo", Victor (?) did "An Open Letter To My Teenage Son" and in the 70's there was "Desiderata"...all spoken word performances over music...not sung. These weren't "music" either, imho.

So...help me out here...how can "Rap", those performance pieces with no true musical hooks, be called "music"?

As I said at the outset, an honest question seeking serious replies. Thanks...
 
> An honest question seeking serious replies...
>
>
> As a musician (singer) and a radio guy, I'm having a hard
> time reconciling certain pieces of performance as "music".
> "Rap" is the offender. I find it to be "spoken word" and not
> "music"...in the strictest sense.
>
> Tunes that I can hear as "music", although containing lots
> of "Rap", are "Feel Good, Inc"/Gorillaz, "Goodies"/Ciara and
> "Grind With Me"/Pretty Ricky. Nice musical hooks run
> throughout.
>
> Pieces that I CAN'T hear as "music" include "Back Then"/Mike
> Jones and "Just A Little Bit"/50 cent. They're just "spoken
> word" with a rhythym and/or a monotonous one or two note
> background. There are NO musical hooks anywhere on these
> pieces of performances.
>
> And, yet...ALL the above pieces are lumped together as
> "Music".
>
> Back in the day, Walter Brennan did a piece of performance
> called "Old Rivers", Lorne Greene did "Ringo", Victor (?)
> did "An Open Letter To My Teenage Son" and in the 70's there
> was "Desiderata"...all spoken word performances over
> music...not sung. These weren't "music" either, imho.
>
> So...help me out here...how can "Rap", those performance
> pieces with no true musical hooks, be called "music"?
>
> As I said at the outset, an honest question seeking serious
> replies. Thanks...
>
There are a lot of avenues from which one can look at this. The roots of rap aren't really in music, per se, they're in spoken word and poetry. Would the work of Gil Scott-Heron and others who were influential to the beginnings of the form be considered musical in nature? How about Ginsberg, McKuen, and other avant-garde poets who sometimes used accompaniment?

I'd say that the vast majority of what we hear on the radio in 2005 is unquestionably musical in nature. The lyrics are secondary to the beat and generally written to fit it, unlike those earlier examples where the spoken message came first and any music was basically an afterthought.

When you get into areas like freestyle or battle rap (which usually don't end up on radio outside of pirate stations), the lines are blurred. I consider those styles to be more spoken word than music because the lyrics are the focus, but YMMV.
 
> An honest question seeking serious replies...
>
>
> As a musician (singer) and a radio guy, I'm having a hard
> time reconciling certain pieces of performance as "music".
> "Rap" is the offender. I find it to be "spoken word" and not
> "music"...in the strictest sense.
>
> Tunes that I can hear as "music", although containing lots
> of "Rap", are "Feel Good, Inc"/Gorillaz, "Goodies"/Ciara and
> "Grind With Me"/Pretty Ricky. Nice musical hooks run
> throughout.
>
> Pieces that I CAN'T hear as "music" include "Back Then"/Mike
> Jones and "Just A Little Bit"/50 cent. They're just "spoken
> word" with a rhythym and/or a monotonous one or two note
> background. There are NO musical hooks anywhere on these
> pieces of performances.
>
> And, yet...ALL the above pieces are lumped together as
> "Music".
>
> Back in the day, Walter Brennan did a piece of performance
> called "Old Rivers", Lorne Greene did "Ringo", Victor (?)
> did "An Open Letter To My Teenage Son" and in the 70's there
> was "Desiderata"...all spoken word performances over
> music...not sung. These weren't "music" either, imho.
>
> So...help me out here...how can "Rap", those performance
> pieces with no true musical hooks, be called "music"?
>
> As I said at the outset, an honest question seeking serious
> replies. Thanks...
>

Nice topic. From my point of view Faulkner is literature, Picasso is art, rap (and I include hip-hop) is music.<P ID="signature">______________
Free Lil Kim
April 29, 2005 5pm What a glorious day it was
</P>
 
>

It's a very good question, and it's part of the big lie we all live in today. Rap artist are not musicians. There more like producers. There good at what they do by putting samples, other musician tracks, and rapping their lyrics to it. Plus most or half the music is computerized.
When the Sugar Hill Gang, Rapper's delight came out...they used Chic's "Good Times" to it and was later sued for plagarism. But it became a cultural thing especially in the black community. Also a message thang.
I was in radio when that Rapper's Delight came out, and we played it at that time as a current Novelty. Something similiar viewed as an Alan Sherman record.
But a few year's later....a few more came out, mostly charting in the black community.
As far as the Gorillaz.....you can trace hits like these going back to Kool & The Gang, "Jungle Boogie", or Blondie with the second semi rap hit "The Rapture".
Those are music, musicians,with a rapish hook in there. The sing and play their instruments. That would be music. Somebody like 50 Cents, or Eminem, is not. Their producers making records. Sure , some of them had a few cuts where they sing a note or two, but they couldn't even hold that much.
Somebody like Nelly can be an artist in the music field , because he sings. Mixes rap and sings, and has put out more mass appeal product.
The spoken word hits (Walter Brennan, Tom Clay, Red Sovine) came out from time to time in many music categories, not just pop, but country, gospel, etc. It's not rap, it's spoken word. They were produced since the late 1800's when the record industry first got started.
But as far placing rap artist calling them musicians, composers, etc. it's like placing someone with an IQ of below 50 at an IVY league college, and calling them academic scholars. If 50 Cents becomes a music teacher one day, you already know where the country is going...


An honest question seeking serious replies...
>
>
> As a musician (singer) and a radio guy, I'm having a hard
> time reconciling certain pieces of performance as "music".
> "Rap" is the offender. I find it to be "spoken word" and not
> "music"...in the strictest sense.
>
> Tunes that I can hear as "music", although containing lots
> of "Rap", are "Feel Good, Inc"/Gorillaz, "Goodies"/Ciara and
> "Grind With Me"/Pretty Ricky. Nice musical hooks run
> throughout.
>
> Pieces that I CAN'T hear as "music" include "Back Then"/Mike
> Jones and "Just A Little Bit"/50 cent. They're just "spoken
> word" with a rhythym and/or a monotonous one or two note
> background. There are NO musical hooks anywhere on these
> pieces of performances.
>
> And, yet...ALL the above pieces are lumped together as
> "Music".
>
> Back in the day, Walter Brennan did a piece of performance
> called "Old Rivers", Lorne Greene did "Ringo", Victor (?)
> did "An Open Letter To My Teenage Son" and in the 70's there
> was "Desiderata"...all spoken word performances over
> music...not sung. These weren't "music" either, imho.
>
> So...help me out here...how can "Rap", those performance
> pieces with no true musical hooks, be called "music"?
>
> As I said at the outset, an honest question seeking serious
> replies. Thanks...
>
 
some is..somes not..run dmc yes...snoop dog ..yes..coolio..yes..ice t..hell yes :)...cant think of any of the artists that are not...




> > An honest question seeking serious replies...
> >
> >
> > As a musician (singer) and a radio guy, I'm having a hard
> > time reconciling certain pieces of performance as "music".
>
> > "Rap" is the offender. I find it to be "spoken word" and
> not
> > "music"...in the strictest sense.
> >
> > Tunes that I can hear as "music", although containing lots
>
> > of "Rap", are "Feel Good, Inc"/Gorillaz, "Goodies"/Ciara
> and
> > "Grind With Me"/Pretty Ricky. Nice musical hooks run
> > throughout.
> >
> > Pieces that I CAN'T hear as "music" include "Back
> Then"/Mike
> > Jones and "Just A Little Bit"/50 cent. They're just
> "spoken
> > word" with a rhythym and/or a monotonous one or two note
> > background. There are NO musical hooks anywhere on these
> > pieces of performances.
> >
> > And, yet...ALL the above pieces are lumped together as
> > "Music".
> >
> > Back in the day, Walter Brennan did a piece of performance
>
> > called "Old Rivers", Lorne Greene did "Ringo", Victor (?)
> > did "An Open Letter To My Teenage Son" and in the 70's
> there
> > was "Desiderata"...all spoken word performances over
> > music...not sung. These weren't "music" either, imho.
> >
> > So...help me out here...how can "Rap", those performance
> > pieces with no true musical hooks, be called "music"?
> >
> > As I said at the outset, an honest question seeking
> serious
> > replies. Thanks...
> >
> There are a lot of avenues from which one can look at this.
> The roots of rap aren't really in music, per se, they're in
> spoken word and poetry. Would the work of Gil Scott-Heron
> and others who were influential to the beginnings of the
> form be considered musical in nature? How about Ginsberg,
> McKuen, and other avant-garde poets who sometimes used
> accompaniment?
>
> I'd say that the vast majority of what we hear on the radio
> in 2005 is unquestionably musical in nature. The lyrics are
> secondary to the beat and generally written to fit it,
> unlike those earlier examples where the spoken message came
> first and any music was basically an afterthought.
>
> When you get into areas like freestyle or battle rap (which
> usually don't end up on radio outside of pirate stations),
> the lines are blurred. I consider those styles to be more
> spoken word than music because the lyrics are the focus, but
> YMMV.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
note to tvland...bring back wkrp!!!</P>
 
There's a simple answer to that question. NO. At least when it comes to the live performance aspect of it. One or more people with microphones talking while a DJ spins a record is not making music. That's karaoke. Besides, a turntable is not a musical instrumental. An instrument creates sound, a turntable manipulates sound that somebody else created. A turntable is an appliance.
 
> some is..somes not..run dmc yes...snoop dog
> ..yes..coolio..yes..ice t..hell yes :)...cant think of any
> of the artists that are not...
>
> Man, you are smashed.
>
>
> > > An honest question seeking serious replies...
> > >
> > >
> > > As a musician (singer) and a radio guy, I'm having a
> hard
> > > time reconciling certain pieces of performance as
> "music".
> >
> > > "Rap" is the offender. I find it to be "spoken word" and
>
> > not
> > > "music"...in the strictest sense.
> > >
> > > Tunes that I can hear as "music", although containing
> lots
> >
> > > of "Rap", are "Feel Good, Inc"/Gorillaz, "Goodies"/Ciara
>
> > and
> > > "Grind With Me"/Pretty Ricky. Nice musical hooks run
> > > throughout.
> > >
> > > Pieces that I CAN'T hear as "music" include "Back
> > Then"/Mike
> > > Jones and "Just A Little Bit"/50 cent. They're just
> > "spoken
> > > word" with a rhythym and/or a monotonous one or two note
>
> > > background. There are NO musical hooks anywhere on these
>
> > > pieces of performances.
> > >
> > > And, yet...ALL the above pieces are lumped together as
> > > "Music".
> > >
> > > Back in the day, Walter Brennan did a piece of
> performance
> >
> > > called "Old Rivers", Lorne Greene did "Ringo", Victor
> (?)
> > > did "An Open Letter To My Teenage Son" and in the 70's
> > there
> > > was "Desiderata"...all spoken word performances over
> > > music...not sung. These weren't "music" either, imho.
> > >
> > > So...help me out here...how can "Rap", those performance
>
> > > pieces with no true musical hooks, be called "music"?
> > >
> > > As I said at the outset, an honest question seeking
> > serious
> > > replies. Thanks...
> > >
> > There are a lot of avenues from which one can look at
> this.
> > The roots of rap aren't really in music, per se, they're
> in
> > spoken word and poetry. Would the work of Gil Scott-Heron
>
> > and others who were influential to the beginnings of the
> > form be considered musical in nature? How about Ginsberg,
>
> > McKuen, and other avant-garde poets who sometimes used
> > accompaniment?
> >
> > I'd say that the vast majority of what we hear on the
> radio
> > in 2005 is unquestionably musical in nature. The lyrics
> are
> > secondary to the beat and generally written to fit it,
> > unlike those earlier examples where the spoken message
> came
> > first and any music was basically an afterthought.
> >
> > When you get into areas like freestyle or battle rap
> (which
> > usually don't end up on radio outside of pirate stations),
>
> > the lines are blurred. I consider those styles to be more
>
> > spoken word than music because the lyrics are the focus,
> but
> > YMMV.
> >
>
 
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