Is the oldies format dead??

[classic_rocker]

Say it ain't so!!! CBS-fm the 1st oldies station in America gone?? Wow I am shocked. Question of the day is..... is the oldies format on its death bed?? Will it go the way of easy listening, or adult standards? I heard one comment on another board that said classic hits is now considered the "oldies" format. What is going on??? I love oldies.. So a demo gets to old and advertisers jump ship?? No revenue?? SAVE OUR OLDIES!!!

 

[Oldiesaholic]

> Say it ain't so!!! CBS-fm the 1st oldies station in America
> gone?? Wow I am shocked. Question of the day is..... is the
> oldies format on its death bed?? Will it go the way of easy
> listening, or adult standards? I heard one comment on
> another board that said classic hits is now considered the
> "oldies" format. What is going on??? I love oldies.. So a
> demo gets to old and advertisers jump ship?? No revenue??
> SAVE OUR OLDIES!!!
>
I've saved my oldies to my CD collection! I'm glad I've held on to all those 45 and LPs (not to mention a few 8-tracks as well as cassettes). I knew this day would come eventually. I was a boy scout once and I was prepared!

 

[RadioFreak965]

> > Say it ain't so!!! CBS-fm the 1st oldies station in
> America
> > gone?? Wow I am shocked. Question of the day is..... is
> the
> > oldies format on its death bed?? Will it go the way of
> easy
> > listening, or adult standards? I heard one comment on
> > another board that said classic hits is now considered the
>
> > "oldies" format. What is going on??? I love oldies.. So a
>
> > demo gets to old and advertisers jump ship?? No revenue??
> > SAVE OUR OLDIES!!!
> >
> I've saved my oldies to my CD collection! I'm glad I've held
> on to all those 45 and LPs (not to mention a few 8-tracks as
> well as cassettes). I knew this day would come eventually. I
> was a boy scout once and I was prepared!
>
I'm thankful for my local <a target="_blank" href=http://www.oldies1063fm.com>Oldies station</a>, and if they go away anytime soon, I've got my CDs and tapes. Those will last forever, so the music is never really "dead."

 

[wwes]

> Say it ain't so!!! CBS-fm the 1st oldies station in America
> gone?? Wow I am shocked. Question of the day is..... is the
> oldies format on its death bed?? Will it go the way of easy
> listening, or adult standards?

Actually Adult Standards is doing pretty well on L.I. at WHLI...
and in Cleveland on WKHR (FM 91-5) www.wkhr.org.
In the Akron/Cleveland area
commercial-free oldies...
and THOUSANDS of them thrive on FM 88-9 heard live at:

www.SundayOldiesJukebox.com

(Which BTW was mentioned 2 wks ago on WCBS-FM w/ Norm N Nite).
A REAL request show 9-Mid too....but only Sundays (all day).
Bill

 

[Mouth1390]

Clearly Oldies as a format has a lot of life in it as does Adult/Standards. You can make the case that prior to its flip to Oldies a few years ago, KB 1520 in Buffalo had a .5 rating and very few advertisers. Now it is doing some money and it has a consistent 1.5 rating. In the case of Adult/Standards, look at the success of WHLI. Strong ratings. Strong local revenue. The key in both situations is that the sales people don't wait for national advertisers to place a buy. They get out and sell to the local businesses. And that's they way the formats will survive, the stations grow and the advertisers thrive.

In as far as the 'Jack' thing goes. . .it reminds me of an old song, 'Everything Old is New Again'. So, you pick out, oh, I don't know, about 1,400 songs of a certain era that were good and people liked and you play them. I hate to be the bearer of bad news BUT, we've been doing something similar (although we do have certain parameters) for the better part of 35 years at WRIV and our friends at WLNG have been doing that since 1969. Heck, even WHLI would qualify as a 'Jack' format by definition.

I did spend about 20 minutes listening to WCBS-FM this morning. It was a wild mix of music broken up every fifteen or so minutes by five minutes of spots. And that's entertainment ?

 

[bigwoody]

> Say it ain't so!!! CBS-fm the 1st oldies station in America
> gone?? Wow I am shocked. Question of the day is..... is the
> oldies format on its death bed?? Will it go the way of easy
> listening, or adult standards? I heard one comment on
> another board that said classic hits is now considered the
> "oldies" format. What is going on??? I love oldies.. So a
> demo gets to old and advertisers jump ship?? No revenue??
> SAVE OUR OLDIES!!!
>


OLDIES ISNT DEAD...as long as Mgmt is cool with 35-64 - where there is A LOT of money. 35-64 is what 25-54 was 10 years ago. Buyers are SLOWLY coming around to it...but not fast enough to save ALL the oldies stations.

 

[OldiesCat]

no

Oldies as a radio format isn't dead (or, at least, doesn't need to be dying).

This is a shake-out period-- the major groups will continue to flip Oldies stations that aren't consistent Top 5 performers (those who are make a boatload
of bread).

Mid to small sized groups will take over the format (as has already begun in markets like Jacksonville, Nashville, Raleigh/Durham, Grand Rapids).

But for the next year the waters will be rough.

 

[TheFonz]

> [I've saved my oldies to my CD collection! I'm glad I've held
> on to all those 45 and LPs (not to mention a few 8-tracks as
> well as cassettes). I knew this day would come eventually. I
> was a boy scout once and I was prepared!]


It's O.K. to listen to the music on tape or CD, but the "personality" is missing. It's fun listening to the DJ chatter along with the music. What you need to do is get into aircheck collecting. And don't forget about satellite radio. Everything you remember about commercial radio (and much more) is available on satellite. Sure it costs a little money, but what doesn't these days?

 

[topsound]

The loss of WCBS, the most influential Oldies station ever, signals the death knell of the format. The format is dead because it requires a substantial investment in talent ($), marketing ($), and sales support ($) in order to win.

And it's not just Oldies. JACK represents the future of terrestrial broadcasting: low-maintenance formats that require little or no on-air talent or other support. The "random" paradigm intentionally downplays the need for skilled music programmers. The days of aggressive street marketing and media promotion such as TV campaigns are also over. Radio stations in every format possible will be run even more leanly to minimize risk and maximize value to stockholders from the increasingly limited top-line revenue available.

From Oldies, this trend will spread to AC, Country and Classic Rock. CHR-flavor stations and News/Talk may be the exception, but the costs of running such formats will suck all resources dry from any other properties in the cluster. Managers consider the value of "live and local" to be outrageously overrated, except in very, very rare circumstances (even in the most major markets).

It's a tragedy. Over-the-air radio as we know it is dead. Thousands of dedicated, passionate people who have dedicated their careers to the business might as well kiss them goodbye. In the case of Oldies, it's "termination with extreme prejudice" because the format represents everything that radio's self-loathing suits despise: exciting, even risky presentation, talent that needs to be both managed and accomodated, mature but passionate listeners that actually care what they hear and how it's presented.

I've dedicated nearly twenty years of my life to programming the Oldies format. I'm 43 years old, and the music of JACK is more "my music" than "true Oldies." But the "total package" fun of Oldies and the passion of the audience are what made me fall in love with it. I could not be more disgusted by Infinity's moves in NYC and Chicago.

Your thoughts?

Tom

 

[TheFonz]

> The loss of WCBS, the most influential Oldies station ever,
> signals the death knell of the format. The format is dead
> because it requires a substantial investment in talent ($),
> marketing ($), and sales support ($) in order to win.
>
> And it's not just Oldies. JACK represents the future of
> terrestrial broadcasting: low-maintenance formats that
> require little or no on-air talent or other support. The
> "random" paradigm intentionally downplays the need for
> skilled music programmers. The days of aggressive street
> marketing and media promotion such as TV campaigns are also
> over. Radio stations in every format possible will be run
> even more leanly to minimize risk and maximize value to
> stockholders from the increasingly limited top-line revenue
> available.
>
> From Oldies, this trend will spread to AC, Country and
> Classic Rock. CHR-flavor stations and News/Talk may be the
> exception, but the costs of running such formats will suck
> all resources dry from any other properties in the cluster.
> Managers consider the value of "live and local" to be
> outrageously overrated, except in very, very rare
> circumstances (even in the most major markets).
>
> It's a tragedy. Over-the-air radio as we know it is dead.
> Thousands of dedicated, passionate people who have dedicated
> their careers to the business might as well kiss them
> goodbye. In the case of Oldies, it's "termination with
> extreme prejudice" because the format represents everything
> that radio's self-loathing suits despise: exciting, even
> risky presentation, talent that needs to be both managed and
> accomodated, mature but passionate listeners that actually
> care what they hear and how it's presented.
>
> I've dedicated nearly twenty years of my life to programming
> the Oldies format. I'm 43 years old, and the music of JACK
> is more "my music" than "true Oldies." But the "total
> package" fun of Oldies and the passion of the audience are
> what made me fall in love with it. I could not be more
> disgusted by Infinity's moves in NYC and Chicago.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> Tom


*****************************************************************


As a consumer (listener) I admire your post. This is the first time I've heard someone in the business explain (and admit) the problem so eloquently. This should be a new thread, at the top, so EVERYONE will read it.
>

 

[benwolf]

I posted this in the coast-to-coast forum and am interested in your thoughts...
My take is that Oldies is still a very viable format! Infinity doesn't seem to know that we produce a niche product, and there's definitely room in the biggest market for an oldies station. If they weren't making enough money, that's a management, marketing and sales problem, NOT a reason to change formats. Oldies stations that change format after these 2 are playing "follow the leader" without really knowing what they're doing. The "follow the leader" mentality left us with a bunch of trigger-happy GM's and failing 80's stations all over the country. I can see that happening with Jack.

In the case of New York and Chicago, place the blame on 2 failing morning shows...Mickey Dolenz and the blander-than-bland Paul Perry.


> > The loss of WCBS, the most influential Oldies station
> ever,
> > signals the death knell of the format. The format is dead
> > because it requires a substantial investment in talent
> ($),
> > marketing ($), and sales support ($) in order to win.
> >
> > And it's not just Oldies. JACK represents the future of
> > terrestrial broadcasting: low-maintenance formats that
> > require little or no on-air talent or other support. The
> > "random" paradigm intentionally downplays the need for
> > skilled music programmers. The days of aggressive street
> > marketing and media promotion such as TV campaigns are
> also
> > over. Radio stations in every format possible will be run
> > even more leanly to minimize risk and maximize value to
> > stockholders from the increasingly limited top-line
> revenue
> > available.
> >
> > From Oldies, this trend will spread to AC, Country and
> > Classic Rock. CHR-flavor stations and News/Talk may be the
>
> > exception, but the costs of running such formats will
> suck
> > all resources dry from any other properties in the
> cluster.
> > Managers consider the value of "live and local" to be
> > outrageously overrated, except in very, very rare
> > circumstances (even in the most major markets).
> >
> > It's a tragedy. Over-the-air radio as we know it is dead.
> > Thousands of dedicated, passionate people who have
> dedicated
> > their careers to the business might as well kiss them
> > goodbye. In the case of Oldies, it's "termination with
> > extreme prejudice" because the format represents
> everything
> > that radio's self-loathing suits despise: exciting, even
> > risky presentation, talent that needs to be both managed
> and
> > accomodated, mature but passionate listeners that actually
>
> > care what they hear and how it's presented.
> >
> > I've dedicated nearly twenty years of my life to
> programming
> > the Oldies format. I'm 43 years old, and the music of JACK
>
> > is more "my music" than "true Oldies." But the "total
> > package" fun of Oldies and the passion of the audience are
>
> > what made me fall in love with it. I could not be more
> > disgusted by Infinity's moves in NYC and Chicago.
> >
> > Your thoughts?
> >
> > Tom
>
>
*****> ************************************************************
>
>
>
> As a consumer (listener) I admire your post. This is the
> first time I've heard someone in the business explain (and
> admit) the problem so eloquently. This should be a new
> thread, at the top, so EVERYONE will read it.
> >
>

 

[Wilkins_Micawber]

And the next Oldies station to take a bullet will be: (Drumroll)

WGVC Greenville/Spartanburg. Entercom is buying it. Rumor is that Entercom has a buyer for WOLI/WOLT and will move the format on that station (Country I think) to WGVC. You can soon add Greenville/Spartanburg to the list of markets without any Oldies stations.

 

[topsound]

The sales problem is exacerbated by the agency mentality - young buyers who have no knowledge of or interest in the Oldies format. The solution is to agressively sell local/direct to the many businesses that cater to the 35+ market. In my town, the news/talk station makes outrageous profits by doing just this. The paradigm for Oldies is the same.

As far as the morning shows go, I don't have first-hand knowledge. I thought the Dolenz move was interesting "out-of-the-box" thinking, but whether he could actually pull it off is a different story. Anybody else have an opinion?

Tom

> I posted this in the coast-to-coast forum and am interested
> in your thoughts...
> My take is that Oldies is still a very viable format!
> Infinity doesn't seem to know that we produce a niche
> product, and there's definitely room in the biggest market
> for an oldies station. If they weren't making enough money,
> that's a management, marketing and sales problem, NOT a
> reason to change formats. Oldies stations that change format
> after these 2 are playing "follow the leader" without really
> knowing what they're doing. The "follow the leader"
> mentality left us with a bunch of trigger-happy GM's and
> failing 80's stations all over the country. I can see that
> happening with Jack.
>
> In the case of New York and Chicago, place the blame on 2
> failing morning shows...Mickey Dolenz and the
> blander-than-bland Paul Perry.

 

[Mouth1390]

> The sales problem is exacerbated by the agency mentality -
> young buyers who have no knowledge of or interest in the
> Oldies format. The solution is to agressively sell
> local/direct to the many businesses that cater to the 35+
> market. In my town, the news/talk station makes outrageous
> profits by doing just this. The paradigm for Oldies is the
> same.
>
> As far as the morning shows go, I don't have first-hand
> knowledge. I thought the Dolenz move was interesting
> "out-of-the-box" thinking, but whether he could actually
> pull it off is a different story. Anybody else have an
> opinion?
>
I never heard the Micky Dolenz morning show, but the scuttle butt was that while is an outstanding entertainer. . .a radio personality he wasn't.

I agree whole heartedly with you on the sales angle concerning oldies and formats that cater to adults, 35+. We know that the 35+ crowd and their subset the 50+ crowd has the disposable income and ability to fulfill their desires yet agencies don't want to sell to them. And you have to wonder if that thought process has driven General Motors to the point where their paper has now sunk to junk bond status. After all, there are only so many kids who will buy small cars but the money is made on Cadillacs. And if no one sells them. . .well, there's a lot of iron sitting there not doing anything.

I know in small market radio, agencies usually account for about 20% of the total station billings and in larger markets, this could reach 30% percent. So the question is this: does a station run the risk of losing upwards of 70% of its current billings in order to make the 30% go up to 40% ?