IS THERE A NATIONAL STANDARD TO DETERMINE REVENUE POTENTIAL FOR A NON-COMM FM

[MattParker]

No, not really. When regular people talk about listening to public radio, they say they listen to NPR. Much as local station people hate to admit it, any listener loyalty is to NPR.

Demonstrably false. If that were true, then WGBH would have twice as many listeners during drive-time as WBUR, since they air primarily the national feeds of ME and ATC, whereas WBUR frequently overrides a nat'l segment to air a locally-produced segment or story. Yet the reverse is true - WBUR has nearly twice as many listeners. Why is that? A host of reasons, but a major one is: providing a product that's not just local, but has successfully ingrained the idea that "it's local and LOCAL IS BETTER."

I agree 100% that it's better to just stick with the national feed than to attempt to do something that's local but half-assed; that'll engender loyalty to the national brand of NPR only. But if you do quality local programming AND you successfully "sell" it to your listeners as being better than the national feed in no small part because it's local? That gets you loyalty at the local level.

Some people tune around but many don't. Maybe the fact that WGBH doesn't pick up Morning Edition until 7am and only carries it for two hours has something to do with the difference in ratings. I'm all in favor of competition but The Takeaway is a weak competitor to Morning Edition. Maybe the fact that WGBH came late to the news-talk format, well after WBUR had established itself also has something to do with the ratings disparity. And maybe the casual listener is not aware when WBUR preempts segments of ME and ATC. If so, it sounds like wasted time and money for WBUR to produce local features to "cover" network programming when listeners don't notice the difference.

 

[aaronread]

Actually I was talking more about before WGBH made the jump to the "all" news/talk format. Back when they played classical mid-day, but were still solid national feeds of ME and ATC for the morning and afternoon drive times, respectively. IIRC, it was pretty much the same as WBUR: 5-9am ME, and 4-6:30pm ATC (6:30-7pm Marketplace).

The difference in listenership between WBUR and WGBH was roughly the same back then. Something, in fact, that I imagine is a concern at WGBH these days...I'd sure they'd prefer to see a marked jump in listenership, although I rather suspect they know it's going to be a gradual process at best.

As for casual listener not knowing that WBUR pre-empts national stories for local ones? That's a tougher call. It's amazing how unaware of the "behind the scenes" most listeners are...but OTOH, WBUR goes waaaaaay out of their way to promote that they do LOCAL stories. Both throughout the day and when the actual local story gets aired. It's kinda hard to miss.

On reflection, though. I will grant you that when most listeners say they "listen to NPR", in their mind they mean they listen to their local NPR affiliate and they leave it at that. The greatest evidence of this is how listeners almost NEVER differentiate between NPR shows, PRI shows, APM shows, Pacifica shows and independent shows...something that can be quite maddening to the show producers, I might add. Listeners don't usually understand the complex relationship between NPR and the affiliate stations, so they just think of "NPR" as "their affiliate station" and leave it at that.

Most people are still flummoxed by how their local NPR affiliate airs "Car Talk" Saturdays at 10am but when they visit grandma 100 miles away, that NPR affiliate airs it at 12n on Sundays. They don't even understand that the show is recorded over 3 hours, mid-day on Wednesdays and then edited down to 59 minutes...and that none of the callers are actually "live". Christ, I know a lot of sports fans that don't have a clue how the blue line of scrimmage and yellow first-down line are inserted into the videocast of the NFL games. One guy swore to me that it was special wires on the field. (!!!! )

That sort of ignorance about how network programming works has gotten somewhat better in the last 5 years or so as everyone and their 100-year-old uncle Morty have been dragged into the Internet Age. But the Average Joe still has next to no clue how everything really works at an NPR affiliate vis a vis their relationship with the mothership.

 

[MattParker]

@Aaron: It's amazing the way the human mind works. There are lots of things I use and I have no idea how they work (nor do I really care). I flick the switch and the light comes on. Probably the people at the electric company think I should really understand how they do what they do. No, I don't expect listeners to know what goes on "behind the scenes" in radio. Just as when I go into a restaurant, if there's a problem with my order I don't need to know or care what problem they are having in the kitchen. What boggles my mind is the conclusions people jump to (and then think they do know). And this is for public radio, which supposedly smart people listen to. Imagine the phone calls commercial stations get.

There's another thread right now on the New York board talking about the ratings shift in the market's two all news stations since PPMs. One big factor: People didn't know which of them they are listening to. I wouldn't be surprised if two public radio stations, now with similar formats, run into that, too.

From what I've read, the flip from classical to talk is more about pledges than ratings. Two public radio news-talk stations didn't work in DC. I wonder if things will go differently in Boston.

 

[bturner]

I love the calls asking what other radio station phone numbers are. They act shocked when you don't know. Had one guy get really angry and I asked him if he'd call McDonalds to ask for Burger King's phone number...and I had to explain that one in detail.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

I love the calls asking what other radio station phone numbers are. They act shocked when you don't know.

Last year, I answered the phone to a caller who wanted to know the call letters of another station in the market. He seemed to be satisfied when I told him that Mix 93.9 is WRLQ.

At one point this year, while on vacation, I found myself at a festival where the local pubcaster station had set up a tent. I walked up, mentioned something about one of their programs, and the station employee asked me when that aired.

But once again, I resent the use of the term "greed," when the only beneficiary is the audience.

I feel that fundraising becomes greed when the NPO has all the money they could ever possibly use to perform their services "to the best of their abilities." Imagine a public radio station with fifty employees, which raises enough money to double its staff. If the quality of the programming doubles, then the audience has benefited. If the programming is only 10% better than it used to be, there was greed.

 

[TheBigA]

Imagine a public radio station with fifty employees, which raises enough money to double its staff. If the quality of the programming doubles, then the audience has benefited. If the programming is only 10% better than it used to be, there was greed.

Imagine a public radio station with 5 employees, all getting paid less than $25 K. In a community that has high unemployment. That's more common than the system you describe. But in this country, our federal government gives money and tax breaks to people and companies that are already rich. It happens every day. But at least with a non-profit, the money is used for the station, not stockholders. Put this in context of what the corporate broadcasters are doing.

 

[aaronread]

Imagine the phone calls commercial stations get.

Oh, I don't have to imagine. In the fall of 1996 I interned as "kid who took phone requests" at Kiss108 in Boston. Remember what album was big in the fall of 1996? That's right: Alanis Morrissette's "Jagged Little Pill". Great album, but not when you're hearing two tracks off it EVERY FREAKING HOUR. And of the 80 or calls I'd get between 7pm and 11pm three nights a week? At least 70 of them were 12 year old girls begging for more Alanis. (or more "At-lan-tis" as I usually heard, ugh)

The other 10 were drunk. :

From what I've read, the flip from classical to talk is more about pledges than ratings. Two public radio news-talk stations didn't work in DC. I wonder if things will go differently in Boston.

Two pubradio news/talk stations in DC was too much truth and honesty for the beltway to handle! ;D Seriously, though, I wouldn't compare these too much because there was a major difference: WGMS changed formats, so WETA went back to all-classical to grab that audience. WGBH bought out WCRB (and at a price they couldn't refuse) so having any classical on WGBH became redundant. In DC's case, it was REactive. In Boston's case, it was PROactive. I'm inclined to think that a proactive move is one that read the market and determined it was a viable path.

 

[Ai4i]

Just this thought, and I wish I had found this thread two pages ago, donating changes the way I feel about pledge drives.
For stations I do not support, I feel nervous and tend to force myself to find another station to listen to, but...
For the stations I do support, I listen to them more during pledge drives than at any other time and I find myself emotionally cheering them on
a l l t h e w a y !

 

[TheBigA]

I listen to them more during pledge drives than at any other time and I find myself emotionally cheering them on
a l l t h e w a y !

We found that to be true too. That was partly why we did the challenges, and why we told the audience that we made the challenges, and their calls helped. There's a certain amount of empowerment involved, but also a community that is created, when you hear all the people who have joined you in doing the same thing. When people talk about "serving the community," there's more to it than public affairs programming. It's creating that community in the first place, of shared values and experiences. I always loved going to member events and speaking with our members, because it was like a family affair. Everyone there loved the same things, and had stories to tell about why they became members. We'd put them on the air and let everyone hear their story. Maybe through that, someone might be compelled to donate and become a member of that family. That's what differentiates public radio from commercial. After I left public radio, I never heard those stories again. And it's not like commercial stations don't have stories or communities, but it's just not the same thing. Today, in this world of social media, I believe this kind of community is more important for radio than ever.

 

[bturner]

The Big A makes an excellent point. Serving the community is being the community. My first boss in radio said a great radio station was a reflection of life in the community it served.

The audience in commercial radio generally lacks the emotional bond the public station creates through membership. People love to feel they belong and are part of something greater than themselves. Public Radio offers this through membership and those members are on the same page. When you're in a group with a common bond it is like family.

Some might feel members only events might just be just a bunch of elite folks trying to impress one another but the reality is we all have the same emotions and triggers that bond us to others. More often than not, this bond extends beyond financial or educational barriers and makes everyone on the same page. You see the same in some churches. The newbie Christian is welcomed into the fold as a full fledged card carrying member simply because everyone is on the same page. You see it among radio people at conventions and many, many other places and situations. It just is not too common among radio listeners until you reach Public Radio.

 

[MattParker]

You used to see this in commercial radio in small markets and even some suburban communities, as well. Sort of like KBHR in Cicely, Alaska. I worked for such a station at one time. The same morning host was on for over 40 years. Other hosts (including part-timers from the community) stayed almost as long. They covered the meetings, church events and just about every high school sporting event. If your name wasn't mentioned on the radio in a given day, chances are the same of somebody you knew would be. Not many national spots but local businesses responded with enthusiastic support (and the station helped their businesses in turn).

The city of license was small rust-belt type city, which lost its major employer and fell on hard times. The coverage area was largely rural but also fringe suburbs. The county was at the edge of a major radio market but many of the core city signals didn't come in well over much of this station's coverage area. Finally, the owners sold out to a station manager from the city who wanted to own his own station. He moved the studio and office from the city of license to a town closer to his home (and the city). In the new location, stations in the city came in loud and clear and that's what people listened to. In fact, after sunset you couldn't even pick up the station at the new location. Instead of the station being about the community (current or former) the station was about the owner's friends, organizations and pet projects. Groups that used to get free time now were told to pay. The station stopped going to meetings and events. They kept the football and basketball games because somebody always wanted to sponsor those. Most of the regular "friends of the station" stopped calling. Advertising dwindled. Local officials and groups stopped bothering to return calls from the now down-sized news department. People from the station's COL would occasionally stop people from the station ask something like "why are you ignoring us?"

The station's greatest asset was its community and it tossed that away. Now the station is a repeater, no office and no studio, for syndicated paid religious programs.

 

[bturner]

That is so sad. I was fortunate enough to work for a station almost as good as you described. The pay wasn't great but it was one of my favorite times in radio. I can truly say that being on the air there I actually felt my jocking the daily shift quenched that thirst we all have to do something that truly makes a postive impact on the place we live. I was not only connected to the listener but was saddled with the welcomed burden of fulfilling the need or want of the community to be part of a sounding board and source of information for a town. Ah, the glory days!

 

[TheBigA]

I look at the same situation differently. I made a conscious decision to leave public radio. I had a great time while I was there, and proud of the work I did, but I was starving. I knew compromises were going to be made in order to put food on the table. And I made them with no excuses. I cherish my time in community radio. It's definitely affected the work I do now. But I wouldn't change a thing.

 

[bturner]

At least you stayed in the business (guessing you did). I know lots of folks who left radio and pine for it daily working jobs they don't care for but felt the need to be financially stable for themselves, spouse and children. For those of us who love the business, other jobs outside radio seem to go against the grain. It is as if we were hard-wired to do radio.

 

[TheBigA]

At least you stayed in the business (guessing you did).

I did. But I know what you mean. Almost all of the people I started out with went to other businesses in search of more money, more career advancement, or more manageable hours. I tell kids every day that if they're looking for a 40/hr week, find some other line of work.