Is there ANY hope for radio

[jamesh]

I don't know if I have ever seen such a mess-makes Obama look financially conservative and responsible by comparison-and that's scary!

Guess who Clear Channrel gets their money from: Romney's old company. Debt is the American way. Nobody pays cash any more.

2012 losses $424,000,000
long term debt $20,700,000,000

Not a typo. Maybe Romney wouldn't have been a good choice either based on those numbers.

That's scary. And we wonder why corporate radio sucks. Don't understand how companies like CC can even continue to exist. They're awful at running radio stations and even more awful, it seems, at running a business. Even cutting air talent and putting out inferior product is not getting them a profit, so just get out of the radio business and let someone who knows what they're doing take over.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1400891/000140089112000011/10-Q.htm

It's all there, I spent some time in a former life around a Big 8 accounting firm (at that time). Believe me looking at stuff like this 10 hours a day will make you start your own business...

 

[TheBigA]

Even cutting air talent and putting out inferior product is not getting them a profit, so just get out of the radio business and let someone who knows what they're doing take over.

Sure...no problem. Got $20 Billion? Then you can buy them and run things yourself.

Here's what I've learned: Those who think they know how to run radio stations don't have any money. Or if they do, they're smart enough not to spend it on owning radio stations.

 

[jamesh]

Even cutting air talent and putting out inferior product is not getting them a profit, so just get out of the radio business and let someone who knows what they're doing take over.

Sure...no problem. Got $20 Billion? Then you can buy them and run things yourself.

Here's what I've learned: Those who think they know how to run radio stations don't have any money. Or if they do, they're smart enough not to spend it on owning radio stations.

Ain't that the truth!

 

[awp69]

Even cutting air talent and putting out inferior product is not getting them a profit, so just get out of the radio business and let someone who knows what they're doing take over.

Sure...no problem.  Got $20 Billion?  Then you can buy them and run things yourself.

Here's what I've learned: Those who think they know how to run radio stations don't have any money.  Or if they do, they're smart enough not to spend it on owning radio stations. 

Well, I didn't say I was smart enough to run a radio station. Just sayin' that I don't particularly think corporate radio puts out a great product and they still don't make money anyway.

If you want to give me $20 billion, I'll take a stab at it though  Probably wouldn't do that much worse!

 

[TheBigA]

If you want to give me $20 billion, I'll take a stab at it though Probably wouldn't do that much worse!

Funny...then you'd be $20 billion in debt to me! And you'll have to cut expenses to meet your payments. Just like them.

See how easy it is?

 

[jamesh]

Even cutting air talent and putting out inferior product is not getting them a profit, so just get out of the radio business and let someone who knows what they're doing take over.

Sure...no problem. Got $20 Billion? Then you can buy them and run things yourself.

Here's what I've learned: Those who think they know how to run radio stations don't have any money. Or if they do, they're smart enough not to spend it on owning radio stations.

Well, I didn't say I was smart enough to run a radio station. Just sayin' that I don't particularly think corporate radio puts out a great product and they still don't make money anyway.

If you want to give me $20 billion, I'll take a stab at it though Probably wouldn't do that much worse!

Lost 424 million last year. That's a loss of around 1.63 million per business day every business day in 2012 (260 days). Or about $181000 an hour on a 9 hour day. Or $498,823 per station loss in 2012 (850 stations.) Could you burn half a million a year and run a decent station? I would hope so! So show me on what level is this showing business "smarts" OR producing great product for the communities served by the government (us) owned airwaves ?

 

[carolinaradio]

"we're not corporate radio folks" because none of us could keep our jobs there.

....because corporate was too focused on slashing budgets than keeping good talent.

Anyway, I have nothing but admiration for what Earth is trying to do. Independent, locally run radio is great. But I do have to agree with carolinaradio, that I'm not sure how well they're going to peform with their current mix of music. It's too broad and, as he mentioned, isn't exactly pointed at the money demo.

I'd love independent radio stations for any genre so they can at least have more local talent and can maybe go outside of the box with some music that is different and not pushed by the big music companies. You still have to be realistic, though, because even though big corporations have continued to kill radio with voice tracking, limited playlists, etc., in the end you still have to at least make some profit to succeed.

Your first sentence is partially true, but some of the people at Earth were dropped for multiple reasons, really. Hudson was involved in that fiasco that wound CC up in court with Roxanne Walker back in 2003. Pretty sure his departure from MY was related to that. Love didn't fit the direction MY went in a couple of years ago. Lee Alexander is a little more confusing, but maybe he did leave Magic to work at Earth. Who knows. He sounds much happier at Earth.

Earth can play a variety and sound good. Listen to 105.9 SunnyFM in Orlando. Mostly 70s and 80s, almost entirely upbeat, and they dig back pretty often and play stuff that's not heard often, and back as far as the early 60s even. But it sounds good. It flows. The numbers are good. They aren't jerking from Madonna in to The Everly Brothers. They present their large variety well, noting that they're about to "dig in to the ____ vault", etc. The difference is hard to describe. Earth has a good airstaff, but the music holds it back. I hope I don't sound like I'm criticizing them, because I certainly am not. KC and Lee are great talents. Love and Hudson (to me), meh. They're talented, but just not my cup of tea.

In response to Scooter's comment about Magic, they've updated/freshened their playlist in March/April for years. It's nothing new for them to do.

 

[TheBigA]

Could you burn half a million a year and run a decent station? I would hope so! So show me on what level is this showing business "smarts" OR producing great product for the communities served by the government (us) owned airwaves ?

How much debt does the government have? How much smarts does that show? Nuff said there.

Have you ever looked at the list of stations CC owns? Sure they have some of the most successful and profitable stations in the country. They ALSO own a bunch of boat anchors that are dragging the entire company down. Lots of AMs in small markets that cost more to run than they bring in. If you study how they ended up owning those stations, you'll find they were sorta tricked into buying them by station brokers looking to make fat commissions. The deal was: Do you want to buy this profitable FM in South Carolina? Then you have to buy a bunch of money-losing AMs in Mississippi. So now they're stuck, and it's hurting the company. But what can they do? Shut them down? They've already donated some boat anchors just to get out of the hole. I'm sure more will go in the next two years.

 

[vchimpanzee]

Have you ever looked at the list of stations CC owns? Sure they have some of the most successful and profitable stations in the country. They ALSO own a bunch of boat anchors that are dragging the entire company down. Lots of AMs in small markets that cost more to run than they bring in. If you study how they ended up owning those stations, you'll find they were sorta tricked into buying them by station brokers looking to make fat commissions. The deal was: Do you want to buy this profitable FM in South Carolina? Then you have to buy a bunch of money-losing AMs in Mississippi. So now they're stuck, and it's hurting the company. But what can they do? Shut them down? They've already donated some boat anchors just to get out of the hole. I'm sure more will go in the next two years.

Waynesville, NC could have a community radio station. Several years ago CC decided WWNC, with a powerful signal day and night, needed a simulcast partner. WMXF goes its own way for high school sports, University of Tennessee sports, and Nationwide and Truck Series races. But if you want to hear good music that isn't classical, you're not going to find it there on the radio. And that town has no community radio.

 

[jamesh]

Could you burn half a million a year and run a decent station? I would hope so! So show me on what level is this showing business "smarts" OR producing great product for the communities served by the government (us) owned airwaves ?

How much debt does the government have? How much smarts does that show? Nuff said there.

Have you ever looked at the list of stations CC owns? Sure they have some of the most successful and profitable stations in the country. They ALSO own a bunch of boat anchors that are dragging the entire company down. Lots of AMs in small markets that cost more to run than they bring in. If you study how they ended up owning those stations, you'll find they were sorta tricked into buying them by station brokers looking to make fat commissions. The deal was: Do you want to buy this profitable FM in South Carolina? Then you have to buy a bunch of money-losing AMs in Mississippi. So now they're stuck, and it's hurting the company. But what can they do? Shut them down? They've already donated some boat anchors just to get out of the hole. I'm sure more will go in the next two years.

The company is horribly run from a financial standpoint-period. If they bought bad properties or overpaid for any of them they are bad businessmen. If they racked up unpayable debt they are bad businessmen. This is not a statement on programming, only on financials. I defer to you on that for now-seems the decisions they are making are probably related to debt service as opposed to good radio.

 

[TheBigA]

The company is horribly run from a financial standpoint-period. If they bought bad properties or overpaid for any of them they are bad businessmen. If they racked up unpayable debt they are bad businessmen. This is not a statement on programming, only on financials. I defer to you on that for now-seems the decisions they are making are probably related to debt service as opposed to good radio.

Depends. They really haven't used any operating cash to pay down debt. They could fire everybody, and it wouldn't make a dent. They're using operating cash to build the new online service. That's a growth area, compared to broadcasting. The other thing they do is sell portions of the company. They just did one of those of few weeks ago. It's called selling equity. That's now sharing the debt among more people. Kind of like how the US government is run.

The reality is that it costs a lot of money to run a radio station. If you're bringing in half a mil on a station in SC, you're losing money, if you consider salaries, benefits, rent, insurance, and utilities. Even if you have a staff of five. They bought these stations in 2001, and the crash happened in 2008. Everything was fine until then. I don't blame businessmen for not having the foresight to anticipate the 2008 crash. A lot of people got burned there, including millions of homeowners who overpaid for their homes.

 

[jamesh]

The company is horribly run from a financial standpoint-period. If they bought bad properties or overpaid for any of them they are bad businessmen. If they racked up unpayable debt they are bad businessmen. This is not a statement on programming, only on financials. I defer to you on that for now-seems the decisions they are making are probably related to debt service as opposed to good radio.

Depends. They really haven't used any operating cash to pay down debt. They could fire everybody, and it wouldn't make a dent. They're using operating cash to build the new online service. That's a growth area, compared to broadcasting. The other thing they do is sell portions of the company. They just did one of those of few weeks ago. It's called selling equity. That's now sharing the debt among more people. Kind of like how the US government is run.

The reality is that it costs a lot of money to run a radio station. If you're bringing in half a mil on a station in SC, you're losing money, if you consider salaries, benefits, rent, insurance, and utilities. Even if you have a staff of five. They bought these stations in 2001, and the crash happened in 2008. Everything was fine until then. I don't blame businessmen for not having the foresight to anticipate the 2008 crash. A lot of people got burned there, including millions of homeowners who overpaid for their homes.

Quite familiar with bonds offerings and the like. They also just settled out of court for paying themselves an immoral if not outright illegal 50 percent dividend with their public CC Outdoor stock, leaving pension funds and investors with a tax headache and a crushed stock price and CC with a lawsuit they had to settle. They did this to make a paltry debt payment compared with the one that is coming in 3 years. They has no other means of making this payment, they just issued themselves credit. They are abysmal businessmen.

S and P 500 companies have had the highest earnings in corporate history this quarter. Corporations have the highest cash on balance sheets in stock market history now, and CC has increasing debt and losses? They have released 10000 employees since private equity took over? Where is the profit? Companies are refinancing debt left and right if they have debt with the Fed keeping interest rates near zero they should, but not CC, they can't qualify-because they are lousy operators of a business and a bad risk for a loan.

Good luck with the streaming fixing all that. This hole is deep, much worse than the U S government, they will be paying billions in debt down this quarter (no thanks to Obama.)

 

[TheBigA]

S and P 500 companies have had the highest earnings in corporate history this quarter.

Great. Any of them own broadcasting? Any of them considering using any of their money in the bank to buy radio stations? Why not?

I'm not defending CC. I'm just sayin' they're playing the cards they were dealt. The guys who got them in the hole are all gone. It's easier to just walk away from it, but that would put a lot more innocent people out of work.

 

[jamesh]

S and P 500 companies have had the highest earnings in corporate history this quarter.

Great. Any of them own broadcasting? Any of them considering using any of their money in the bank to buy radio stations? Why not?

I'm not defending CC. I'm just sayin' they're playing the cards they were dealt. The guys who got them in the hole are all gone. It's easier to just walk away from it, but that would put a lot more innocent people out of work.

They dealt the cards. Private equity ( Bain and Lee) sued the banks to take it private when the banks tried to back out, the banks saw this was an over levered mess. They created the situation they are in. Not an Obama guy but what I see of Bain makes me realize it wouldn't be much better with Mitt. People are of out of work because they dealt the cards-because they "bought a home they couldn't afford", not because of their kindness and after looking the the 10-Q I think more firings are a given. There is no other answer from a financial standpoint.

The Titanic sank because of hubris, who needs lifeboats? When the Bain guys bought it was doomed, that was the iceburg...masters of the universe should have focused on Masters of finance instead. It's an unfortunate reality, the ship WILL sink.

 

[TheBigA]

It's an unfortunate reality, the ship WILL sink.

My view is that three years is a long time, and a lot of things can happen between now and then.

 

[SaltyDog]

It's an unfortunate reality, the ship WILL sink.

My view is that three years is a long time, and a lot of things can happen between now and then.

More importantly, to me, what would "sinking" look like? Chapter 11? Chapter 7? Come on, if we're going to predict the outcome, let's fill in the details. By my way of thinking, the ship sinks when the stations go dark. People have been saying to me for years: Radio is dead. And I see thousands of radio stations are still broadcasting and say: Please define "dead".

 

[Tom Wells]

Dead is when nothing else matters any more but serving the debt.

And that goes for all occupations and professions.

Hard to say if the Banksters are more guilty than the shamsters.

It is clear that the design of the scam was to leave honest, hard working folks holding a bag
of debt, after the party of wild consumption, the "party-throwers and goers" having moved on to new exploits
and parties.

I'm all for some deep corporate surgery by the US Justice Dept.
But that doesn't even work.
Enron was touted as the model of what makes a corporation great.
Whoops. It was all lies and scam.
Now lets' get to the bottom of the mess and see where the money went.

How convenient to have terrorists take down the buildings with all the records!

I'm not really a conspiracy kind of guy, but it does seem corporations always find ways to
take advantage over natural persons and leave behind impoverishment and debt whenever it suits
their bottom lline best.
Real persons are "required" to take more responsibility.
Corporations are "allowed to enjoy" an economic advantage because they don't have to have any
"responsibilities" private or public, except that that of making money for the shareholders.

 

[TheBigA]

Dead is when nothing else matters any more but serving the debt.

So then by your definition, they're not dead, because that's not what they're doing.

 

[jamesh]

Dead is when nothing else matters any more but serving the debt.

So then by your definition, they're not dead, because that's not what they're doing.

Tom has a incredibly clear understanding of the situation. CC has been an ATM for private equity to pay themselves huge salaries and consulting fees while running up CC into a financial pit. They have no intention or ability to pay down that debt-ever. In the end they will not suffer financially for what they have done to radio because that is how private equity sets the game up and it is a game. It's financial engineering akin to Wall St algorithmic trading, a scam to siphon off money on a failing business model with no skin in the game. This time using the public airwaves-PUBLIC not private. Employees and listeners have gotten the short end of the stick on this deal.

 

[Scooter Lesley]

Very well put, Mr. Wells. I agree, and this board should hear from you more often. Now, to borrow a Wrestling expression,...I just Tagged in!
Once again, I address Loudly, what others are only quietly thinking:
Not alotta takers...my "I'm Gonna Sue...Youuuuu!" post, about Michael Jackson for example...or the one I recently listed about Payola! I was alone there, as that scared the Dawg Dookie outta everyone. So,...take a good read on the post from Tom Wells. The post is not a reaction, but very well put, as I said. To me, it would seem that corporate radio would pursue any & every avenue known to exsist for more Ratings & Revenue, but they DON'T! So, I ask...since the smarts are there,...why don't they? Somewhere, therein rezzzzzzzzzzzzides...
an enigma! Something and/or a group of Some-suits are blocking the way...here it is,...now keep it just like this. If you are not a reporting station, then why are you still tied to the Labels? Currently, I see both MAGIC & ROCK 101 with the most to gain, but overhauls would have to take place. Stuck in park, with the brake handle yanked-up, and no one on staff with the smarts to know...how to drive!