Is There Hope For Dying Formats?

[TheFonz]

An article in our local newspaper today mentioned how the FCC would be opening a number of non-commercial "educational" radio station licenses. The article was related to Classical music. But I was thinking that other types of music might fit the "educational" definition. For example, Big Band has been around for about 80 years. And roots Rock & Roll has been around for over 50 years. Seems to me that there would be some educational value there. Maybe there's some hope for formats that commercial radio has given up on.

 

[amfmsw]

Fonz,

Your'e absolutely right. The Non-com stations, whether 88-92Mc or LPFM in the commercial band would succeed with any of those formats. But the Big band should be presented as a Jazz genre instead of nostalgia. There aren't may 85 year olds tuned to radio at all anymore, yet alone FM. It would be a waste. But as a Jazz mix, it would appeal to many students of music and general population as an alternative.


The Early Rock / Group Harmony would be the same, although it would still be able to stand on it's own merits as a format appealing to 50-65 year olds. And, as long as it's non-commercial and underwritten by listeners and community business, no worries about nay-sayers.

 

[palalwanabe]

Music from 1940-1970...........there is a whole generation of fans for this music. Given the success fo all the Standard's Cd's (Rod Stewart alone had three Gold CD's), and the sudden fame of Michael Buble and others. Almost every established singer has released a Standards CD. Tony Bennett has a huge following with the younger audience. My wife is 49, At her 30th reunion is was a Big Band Theme, her classmate produced two hit movies featuring the music of Burt Bacarach. A local AM staion enjoyed their highest ratings when they featured more music from 1940-1970, when they modernized their format they lost 50% of their base. Hey, most of the WWII veterans are gone, but they left a lot of children and grandchildren that love and appreciate that music. The orginators of that music are long gone but their music is alive. The fact is good music is good music. One last item, on live365.com, Goerge Wilsons Memory Tunes has moved to #3 within genre, and #361 (over 10,000 stations) featuring the music of 1940-1970, with some 1980-2007 cuts.

 

[amfmsw]

pala,

I agree that there is an interest in the music from the 40's, but it would be really hard, if not impossible, to support a station,staff and pay bills with it.

 

[kirkiefan]

I almost hate to say it,but if public radio won't keep first generation top-40 rock alive(as a historical documentation) you may as well build or buy a one watt transmitter and hook it up to your computer and doing neighbor(hood)casting on your own..surely there are a few netnerds out there who are also radionerds who can!

 

[KFodor]

I almost hate to say it,but if public radio won't keep first generation top-40 rock alive(as a historical documentation) you may as well build or buy a one watt transmitter and hook it up to your computer and doing neighbor(hood)casting on your own..surely there are a few netnerds out there who are also radionerds who can!

Given the large amount of "doo wop" shows I see on PBS Television (and yes, I do watch those shows...I am 50, you know!), I would think a non-comm that relied on public support just might do alright with that type of format. But, remember...it would have to be done well. A playlist that was wide...but not too deep. (Sorry, but Teresa Brewer's "Music! Music! Music!", or Nat Cole's "Too Young" doesn't fit here. Nor would, necessarily every "B" side.) Good, interesting air talent. (They don't have to be all in their 60's, but need to be entertaining and know the music.) Attention to imaging (jingles, even the period kind could work.) And yes, reverb on the air chain. Then, have the air personalities appeal to the listeners. ("If you love this music, help us keep it alive with your pledge.") Perhaps, with the right connections, such stations (if they took off) could lure a big name talent (such as a "Cousin Brucie", who also does pitches for PBS) to do a one or two hour syndicated program which could be underwritten to offset the cost. And, oh yes...a "doo wop shop" on the weekend, definitely.

But, I would focus these stations on the time frame of 1955-1972. This would be a good comparison to the classic hits style of oldies station in vogue today. And, I would limit the "pledge pitches" or underwriting time to no more than about
3-6 minutes per hour. That would allow the station to play up to 54 minutes of music. And yes, do the weather, the sports, a good morning show, etc. Don't just be a jukebox. Play the old music...but live in today, just as good oldies stations always have.

Actually...it just might work.

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

It's the "non-commercial band, " not "educational." There is no requirement that stations between 88 and 92 be educational. There are a lot of community stations playing Big Band, Standards and Oldies (at least on a part-time basis).

The problem with low power stations is, well, they are low power. They don't reach very far. So unless one playing what you want opens up near you, you are out of luck. The other problem is such stations can interfere (and have interfered) with existing non-commercial stations (including public radio stations). The prospective licensee has to hire an engineer and provide evidence the proposed station will not cause any interference (and this may be subject to challenge for your local public radio or religious station).

Then we get to money. Who is going to pay to revive a dying format? Often an enthusiast with deep pockets gets a non-commercial license and operates a music format as a hobby station. History has shown music lovers (regardless of the type of music) don't pledge in sufficient numbers and amounts to support a music station. Keep in mind that PBS gets most of their money from corporate underwriters plus some from the government (community stations don't qualify for CPB funding).

Besides, if Oldies fans were willing to pay for their music, they'd be listening to XM or Sirius (or get an iPod).

 

[kirkiefan]

Jas:

Would Little Walter DeVenne or Cool Bobby B consider doing a PBS/NPR gig???

I sho' dad blam hope so!

First generation rock can be taught to and appreciated by our kids....my teenage son loves "Abbey Road" by The Beatles. He has it on his mp3 player and listens to it on his way to JVS in the morning. He and his brothers used to watch "Grease" w/Travolta and ON-J with me when they were little young-uns.

Groucho:

Low power FMs do a fair job. I must give credit here to WSWO-LP's "Ultimate Oldies" out of Huber Heights...though jockless...at least the music and vintage PAMS jingles are there.

Many people including myself cannot afford Sirius or XM as much as LPFMs cannot afford to stream until a bigger listsner base is buit and that takes time.... but the potential is there.

 

[firepoint525]

Interesting discussion so far. On a recent Saturday evening at 6:30, channel 5, the CBS affiliate here in Nashville ran a Time-Life infomercial for one of their hit-packed collections that covered the years 1955 to about 1964. It was especially heavy on the music of the 1960-63 era. ("Malt-Shop Memories," I think it was.) Everyone they interviewed in this malt shop appeared to be in their early to mid '60s. They all reminisced about this music, being back in high school, going to their first dance, and all the other memories this music brought back. (One guy even said that the tracks on this collection were arranged just like he used to hear them on the radio, going from one artist to another.) Bobby Rydell was the host for this infomercial, if that gives you any clue to the age group they were targeting in this infomercial. But his female co-host appeared to be much younger. This collection was heavy on groups like the Drifters, some doo-wop groups, Bobby Darin, some teen idols like Rick Nelson, and post-Army Elvis. They of course showed performance footage of many of these artists, apparently from shows like "Bandstand." I'm only 44, but I grew up hearing a lot of the artists represented on this collection, so I remember nearly all of them. I was struck by the fact that channel 5 ran this infomercial at 6:30 on a Saturday evening. Now you could make the case that the younger set is not home at 6:30 on a Saturday evening, but channel 5 usually has "Inside Edition Weekend" in that time slot. I would have figured that an infomercial like this would have run during the wee hours of the morning, regardless of who was the target audience of this infomercial.

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

Yes, there is an audience for this type of music. No question.

But how are you going to pay for the kind of station being proposed? This is not a rhetorical question. Just because there is interest, doesn't mean bills automatically get paid. Even an automated operation takes some money.

And why is there a need for such a station? The music is available (as some of you have mentioned) on (1) Satellite radio (2) Internet Radio (3) Cable/Satellite TV audio channels (4) Music downloads to mp3 players and computers (5) CD collections.

Formats die not so much because of a lack of audience interest; but because of a lack of advertiser interest. If advertisers won't pay for a format, then either it dies or fans have to pay. But it sounds like fans don't want to (or are unable to) pay for the music they like. So there is no hope.

Just because listeners don't pay, doesn't mean radio is free. There is no Santa Claus.

 

[palalwanabe]

Internet Radio Programming ........ not commercial radio , not satellite, etc.

Is for most participants a labor of love, some of which have the means to carry the load without a sponsor. These programmers are keeping the formats alive, and more are coming, than of disappearing. In a couple of months I will be launching on Live365.com. a program so unique, that I am hoping it will create quite a buzz.
No one to my knowledge has ever attempted it beacuse of the standard thinking is that this format will not work. I am anxious to see if it does, and if it does, it will lay to to rest a lot of thinking, that has dominated Oldies Radio Programming since day one.
Please, keep in mind that this will not require revenue, that it will survive, strictly on the basis of listener reponse. I have confidence in my knowledge, my intuitive sense of what listeners like , my access to a massive library (actually a record store,plus my 5,000 plus CD collection) and most of all a passion for music that I have had since I was 6 years old, and I'm 61 years old now.So please, wait until I launch before you call me crazy.

 

[majicjim]

Intenet stations are already out there playing oldies:

http://www.rockitradio.net

http://www.flamingoldies.com

(just to mention a few)

Rock It Radio I especially like since not only because it is less repititious but it also features "average person" jocks who play songs that haven't been played since the 50s and 60s! Lots of specialty programs which focus on doo-wop,rockabilly and early R&B.

Those two are the best..unless (heh-heh) you want to set up a one watt transmitter in your home and hope the dickens you don't get caught!

 

[radiobop]

I operate Radio Bop (RadioBop.com) playing 50s and 60s Rock 'n Roll but have always been fascinated with the pre-Rock 'n Roll era and the music of the mid-40s/early 50s that brought us to Rock 'n Roll...which is why I conceived ROOTSofROCK.US now in soft-launch stage at LoudCity.com and Live365.com (the actual website is still in development). ROOTSofROCK.US features the charted hits on all of BillBoard's charts...pop, country and R&B from 1944-1954...and to my knowledge, the music of that era is not played anywhere else on either a terrestrial or internet station in the manner presented on ROOTSofROCK.US. If Elvis had had an iPod, this is the stuff he would've had on it!

Right now, I have a half-dozen other niche formats under development. Certain music deserves to live on and be heard forever and my goal is to make it happen.