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Is this valid?

B

BDBopper

Without the original Rock N' Roll from the 1950's the music "Oldies" stations play now does not exist. In fact all contemproary Pop music does not exist either. By not exposing people to the sounds from the beginning cheapens music for further generations (enthusiasts and muscians alike). In other words it is like a classical music teacher exposing his/her students and teaching them about music from the 20th century alone, while ignorning the fact that Bach, Motzart, Handel, and Beetoven came before them and paved the way for what has come after them.

Is this a valid point? I think this is what Oldies stations/radio un general is doing by not playing the music from the beginning. There is nowhere else for the music to go. Music of Your Life stations bite the dust and it is all ok. It's white-collar enough for NPR. 50's Rock N' Roll is blue collar and not snooty enough.

Sorry for beating the old horse to death once again. I just feel like an activist for the music. <P ID="signature">______________
In Harmony
From the Bop Shop,
Brian "BD Bopper"</P>
 
> > In other words it is like a classical music teacher
>
> But education isn't the goal of commercial radio.
>

I guss my point is this-Pretty much every genre has a place on radio. And if time runs out on a genre/format it is usally white collar and ok for Public radio. 50's music is not and is an outlier. I guess I am just taking it too personal that I chose to love and enjoy a period of musical time that is about to die a quick death and be lost forever. <P ID="signature">______________
In Harmony
From the Bop Shop,
Brian "BD Bopper"</P>
 
> I guess I am just taking it too
> personal that I chose to love and enjoy a period of musical
> time that is about to die a quick death and be lost forever.

Cheer up. Simply because those oldies are not being played on radio doesn't mean they're dead and gone forever.
 
Incorrect

> > In other words it is like a classical music teacher
>
> But education isn't the goal of commercial radio.
>

Education is not the PRIMARY goal of commercial radio. But education is subsumed under the still statutory responsibility to broadcast for the public interest.

I'm gonna throw this out again: maybe the FCC should be looking at format allocation and retention once again. And forget about the First Amendment argument against it--jurisprudentially, I can argue against it.
 
I understand your feelings here. In our system radio stations are in it for the profit, which I think is the best system.

You can hear early rock and roll from the fifties on many streams of internet and non-profit stations. There is a very good show from the UK on BBC 2 called Shake, Rattle and Roll hosted by Mark Lamarr. He only plays fifties on his show. It is one hour a week and you can listen to a show any time within a week of broadcast.

Also check out some of the shows that Bob Shannon is doing. His shows are around half fifties and half early sixties.



> Without the original Rock N' Roll from the 1950's the music
> "Oldies" stations play now does not exist. In fact all
> contemproary Pop music does not exist either. By not
> exposing people to the sounds from the beginning cheapens
> music for further generations (enthusiasts and muscians
> alike). In other words it is like a classical music teacher
> exposing his/her students and teaching them about music from
> the 20th century alone, while ignorning the fact that Bach,
> Motzart, Handel, and Beetoven came before them and paved the
> way for what has come after them.
>
> Is this a valid point? I think this is what Oldies
> stations/radio un general is doing by not playing the music
> from the beginning. There is nowhere else for the music to
> go. Music of Your Life stations bite the dust and it is all
> ok. It's white-collar enough for NPR. 50's Rock N' Roll is
> blue collar and not snooty enough.
>
> Sorry for beating the old horse to death once again. I just
> feel like an activist for the music.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
Re: Incorrect

> > > In other words it is like a classical music teacher
> >
> > But education isn't the goal of commercial radio.
>
> Education is not the PRIMARY goal of commercial radio. But
> education is subsumed under the still statutory
> responsibility to broadcast for the public interest.

In Ohio it is against the law to roller skate without notifying the police. Do you think anyone makes that call - or even considers doing so? ;-)
 
Re: Incorrect

The problem right away with the FCC dictating formats is that no station would take a chance on any kind of new format knowing that if it failed, they'd be stuck with it. If you think radio programming is "safe" now, wait til something like that goes into effect. Public radio, hobby clubs and the internet will do the educating about the early days of rock and roll, and I'm sure they'll be doing that after the original audience has gone to the big juke box in the sky. Some of it may even be considered "classical" (Now, the third movement from the Sgt. Pepper LP).
 
Re: Get Real

I would rather see the FCC abolished and private property rights of frequencies go into effect with a sale of all government owned frequencies (all frequencies).

The government is the biggest ***up in this country. The US government should be cut back as much as is possible, which is a lot.

How can anyone, such as you, have any kind of faith in the US government? Everything they touch turns to dust. They can do nothing right. I mean nothing! bar none. You want the total deterioration of radio? Just let the government in, they are helping the process along toward deterioration by just owning frequencies and licensing stations. Letting stations decide their format and programs is all that has kept radio alive this long.

And while we are at it, how about letting foreign individuals and corporations own radio stations. We should be able to hear the best that the world has to offer.

Expand the FCC? How foolish!


> Education is not the PRIMARY goal of commercial radio. But
> education is subsumed under the still statutory
> responsibility to broadcast for the public interest.
>
> I'm gonna throw this out again: maybe the FCC should be
> looking at format allocation and retention once again. And
> forget about the First Amendment argument against
> it--jurisprudentially, I can argue against it.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
Re: I Love The Fifties Too

Hey guy, I love the fifties too. Many things about the fifties especially the rock and roll. It is out there. I can have all fifties all the time, if I want it. I could list stations for you from the net, and there are fifties stations on satellite. I also have my records, tapes and CD's of fifties. And there is much more that I could buy.

Radio may no longer be the place for fifties. There are very few places to hear it on AM where it was born. Thank God for WRLL. We can have our fifties, but the music will just be elsewhere now.

Let me know if you want to know where to hear fifties.


> I guss my point is this-Pretty much every genre has a place
> on radio. And if time runs out on a genre/format it is
> usally white collar and ok for Public radio. 50's music is
> not and is an outlier. I guess I am just taking it too
> personal that I chose to love and enjoy a period of musical
> time that is about to die a quick death and be lost forever.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
Re: Incorrect

> > > > In other words it is like a classical music teacher
> > >
> > > But education isn't the goal of commercial radio.
> >
> > Education is not the PRIMARY goal of commercial radio.
> But
> > education is subsumed under the still statutory
> > responsibility to broadcast for the public interest.
>
> In Ohio it is against the law to roller skate without
> notifying the police. Do you think anyone makes that call -
> or even considers doing so? ;-)
>

Is it? Do you have a statute?
 
Hello 911...I'll be roller skating now!

> > > > > In other words it is like a classical music teacher
> > > >
> > > > But education isn't the goal of commercial radio.
> > >
> > > Education is not the PRIMARY goal of commercial radio.
> > > But education is subsumed under the still statutory
> > > responsibility to broadcast for the public interest.
> >
> > In Ohio it is against the law to roller skate without
> > notifying the police. Do you think anyone makes that call
> > - or even considers doing so? ;-)
>
> Is it? Do you have a statute?

Not off hand. But isn't that one a classic?

(Hey...please know that I hear you on the education thing. It's just that we both know that CC didn't take WSAI real oldies to educate Cincinnati about The Tune Weavers.)
 
Well put, Brian! I guess it will take some of us "newies" in the radio business to keep the torch alive for the oldies. My station (WXRB-FM/Dudley, MA), small as it may be, is into oldies for the long haul. No format of the week club, here. Anything that is Rock and Roll oldies from 1954-1979 is our territory. We're a small Class D (non-commercial!) FM Stereo station, with an Internet counterpart (no simulcast but roughly the same format as we play on the FM station). NO, we're NOT the second coming of WCBS-FM (nooooo way, not even close). But we believe that the oldies DESERVE the opportunity to be played "respectfully". I'm sure others in the web universe feel the same way. If the big guys won't do it anymore, then it's up to us, you know.... "the small guys" (Internet and AM & FM radio stations) to keep the music alive AND available!

After all, honestly, WHO will remember the Tiffany's (Now THERE'S an old one, yecch!), the Britany Spears, the Snoop Doggy Dog (what ever his name is) or anything being played on today's CHR stations in say..... 20 years from now? I doubt ANYBODY will remember (or would want to listen to) the music in today's CHR playlists, 20 years from now. I'll betcha' though, these same people will still WANT to hear Elvis, Bill Haley and The Comets, Sinatra, Bobby Darin, Chubby Checker or the many, many other artists of Rock's "Golden Era". Guaranteed, the teens of today (the ADULTS of TOMORROW) will want to hear the music that made America (and the rest of the world) great on their IPod's (or whatever the technology happens to hold for us, in the future)! I'm 45 years old, born in 1960, several years AFTER the early rock and roll days. But you know something? I love the oldies. It's ALL I listen to, for the most part. (I DO like Techno and Classic Rock as change of pace, from time to time). But, I've listened to oldies since 1972 and NEVER get tired of them. Thank God for XM, Sirius, WRLL, WMTR, WARE and OF COURSE Buffalo's 'KB/1520 (and I'd like to think that 'XRB would get an honorable mention there, as well). I'm proud to be playing that great oldies music in my little corner of the world.

Keep the faith, folks! "Rock and Roll is here to stay!"


73,

Peter Q. George
http://wxrbfm.com


> Cheer up. Simply because those oldies are not being played
> on radio doesn't mean they're dead and gone forever.
> <P ID="signature">______________
Peter Q. George (K1XRB)
Whitman, Massachusetts</P>
 
radio biz

I think we should also remind ourselves that in business in general, the whole idea is to produce a great product AND do it profitably. "Radio stations are in it for the profit" is the whole idea- if a TV show has low viewership or it's demos aren't right, it gets cancelled. If an automobile is produced that doesn't sell or hit it's profit margins, they stop manufacturing that car.

Boys & girls- the Radio Business is and has always been that: A BUSINESS. We sure can't (or shouldn't) be resentful because the companies we work for operate in such a way to get a return on their investments.


> I understand your feelings here. In our system radio
> stations are in it for the profit, which I think is the best
> system.
>
> You can hear early rock and roll from the fifties on many
> streams of internet and non-profit stations. There is a
> very good show from the UK on BBC 2 called Shake, Rattle and
> Roll hosted by Mark Lamarr. He only plays fifties on his
> show. It is one hour a week and you can listen to a show
> any time within a week of broadcast.
 
What you can't "sing" the lyrics to a Snoop "song"?

>
> After all, honestly, WHO will remember the Tiffany's (Now
> THERE'S an old one, yecch!), the Britany Spears, the Snoop
> Doggy Dog (what ever his name is) or anything being played
> on today's CHR stations in say..... 20 years from now? I
> doubt ANYBODY will remember (or would want to listen to) the
> music in today's CHR playlists, 20 years from now.

Peter I agree with your entire post... You make a wonderful point. But you don't even have to go back 10 years or even 5 years .. Just go back 3 years the year 2002 #1 CHR/Rhythmic song on R&R was Ashanti's "Foolish", #1 on Urban - Usher's "U Don't Have To Call"; #1 on CHR/Pop Nickleback's "How You Remind Me".
How many can sing along to these songs? How many remember the lyrics?

Now Go back to the #1 song 1959 Mack the Knife... Any fan still remembers the lyrics. Sweet Little Sixteen, Don't Be Cruel, Take Good Care of My Baby, and on and on... Who CAN'T sing along with those songs popular over 44 years ago?
Is it just the dumbing down of America or the many many many choices in music and other forms of entertainment available today?
 
Re: What you can't "sing" the lyrics to a Snoop "song"?

> >
> > After all, honestly, WHO will remember the Tiffany's (Now
> > THERE'S an old one, yecch!), the Britany Spears, the Snoop
>
> > Doggy Dog (what ever his name is) or anything being played
>
> > on today's CHR stations in say..... 20 years from now? I
> > doubt ANYBODY will remember (or would want to listen to)
> the
> > music in today's CHR playlists, 20 years from now.
>
> Peter I agree with your entire post... You make a wonderful
> point. But you don't even have to go back 10 years or even
> 5 years .. Just go back 3 years the year 2002 #1
> CHR/Rhythmic song on R&R was Ashanti's "Foolish", #1 on
> Urban - Usher's "U Don't Have To Call"; #1 on CHR/Pop
> Nickleback's "How You Remind Me".
> How many can sing along to these songs? How many remember
> the lyrics?
>
> Now Go back to the #1 song 1959 Mack the Knife... Any fan
> still remembers the lyrics. Sweet Little Sixteen, Don't Be
> Cruel, Take Good Care of My Baby, and on and on... Who CAN'T
> sing along with those songs popular over 44 years ago?
> Is it just the dumbing down of America or the many many many
> choices in music and other forms of entertainment available
> today?

Folks, let me remind you that people were saying the exact same thing back then--just replace "Snoop Dogg" with "Elvis Presley" and you'll get the same idea. The kids have always come up with music that the old folks can't stand. That was true back then, it's true today and it will be true in the future. Nothing ever changes. It just changes.

(And I can sing along to "How You Remind Me" and have a number of times, thank you very much.)
 
Re: What you can't "sing" the lyrics to a Snoop "song"?

> Folks, let me remind you that people were saying the exact
> same thing back then--just replace "Snoop Dogg" with "Elvis
> Presley" and you'll get the same idea. The kids have always
> come up with music that the old folks can't stand. That was
> true back then, it's true today and it will be true in the
> future. Nothing ever changes. It just changes.
>
> (And I can sing along to "How You Remind Me" and have a
> number of times, thank you very much.)
>

Ha what about Gettin Jiggy With It
How about Shoop? (the Salt n Pepper song?)
I agree with your point about the previous generations etc

But can you really claim that today's music fans can sing a chorus of such classics like "Hot In Herre" , "Toxic" or tomorrow's classic "Gold Digger" or any other classic from Kanye West?

Give me a break, please.
 
Re: What you can't "sing" the lyrics to a Snoop "song"?

> > Folks, let me remind you that people were saying the exact
>
> > same thing back then--just replace "Snoop Dogg" with
> "Elvis
> > Presley" and you'll get the same idea. The kids have
> always
> > come up with music that the old folks can't stand. That
> was
> > true back then, it's true today and it will be true in the
>
> > future. Nothing ever changes. It just changes.
> >
> > (And I can sing along to "How You Remind Me" and have a
> > number of times, thank you very much.)
> >
>
> Ha what about Gettin Jiggy With It
> How about Shoop? (the Salt n Pepper song?)
> I agree with your point about the previous generations etc
>
> But can you really claim that today's music fans can sing a
> chorus of such classics like "Hot In Herre" , "Toxic" or
> tomorrow's classic "Gold Digger" or any other classic from
> Kanye West?

Salt 'n' Pepa, dude.

Most of these records have a hook line or two that is sung, even if it is mostly rap. So yes, they can sing along.

You're sounding just like your parents--and if I wanted to, I could dig up lots of crappy records from the early rock era, some of which were Top 10 hits, so things haven't changed a bit. Do I like a lot of what's on the charts today? No, but I'm not supposed to and I'm happy with that.
 
Re: What you can't "sing" the lyrics to a Snoop "song"?

> Folks, let me remind you that people were saying the exact
> same thing back then--just replace "Snoop Dogg" with "Elvis
> Presley" and you'll get the same idea. The kids have always
> come up with music that the old folks can't stand. That was
> true back then, it's true today and it will be true in the
> future. Nothing ever changes. It just changes.
>
> (And I can sing along to "How You Remind Me" and have a
> number of times, thank you very much.)


Good point. But here is the irony. My parents grew up with music from the late 60's and 70's and don't enjoy the music I love either. I am 23. My parents, nor my siblings want anything to do with the 50's music I enjoy. It bores my parents to sleep and annoys the heck out of my siblings who would rather listen to Green Day and Linkin Park (not that those are bad bands either)
<P ID="signature">______________
In Harmony
From the Bop Shop,
Brian "BD Bopper"</P>
 
Re: WXRB

Peter,

Thanks and I have been listening to WXRB on the net lately. I do like the variety of solid gold that you play. I have told a few people about the WXRB stream. I have made it one of my "presets" because you do play good music. Keep it up and keep on rockin' and rollin'.

> Well put, Brian! I guess it will take some of us "newies"
> in the radio business to keep the torch alive for the
> oldies. My station (WXRB-FM/Dudley, MA), small as it may
> be, is into oldies for the long haul. No format of the week
> club, here. Anything that is Rock and Roll oldies from
> 1954-1979 is our territory. We're a small Class D
> (non-commercial!) FM Stereo station, with an Internet
> counterpart (no simulcast but roughly the same format as we
> play on the FM station). NO, we're NOT the second coming of
> WCBS-FM (nooooo way, not even close). But we believe that
> the oldies DESERVE the opportunity to be played
> "respectfully". I'm sure others in the web universe feel
> the same way. If the big guys won't do it anymore, then
> it's up to us, you know.... "the small guys" (Internet and
> AM & FM radio stations) to keep the music alive AND
> available!
>
> After all, honestly, WHO will remember the Tiffany's (Now
> THERE'S an old one, yecch!), the Britany Spears, the Snoop
> Doggy Dog (what ever his name is) or anything being played
> on today's CHR stations in say..... 20 years from now? I
> doubt ANYBODY will remember (or would want to listen to) the
> music in today's CHR playlists, 20 years from now. I'll
> betcha' though, these same people will still WANT to hear
> Elvis, Bill Haley and The Comets, Sinatra, Bobby Darin,
> Chubby Checker or the many, many other artists of Rock's
> "Golden Era". Guaranteed, the teens of today (the ADULTS of
> TOMORROW) will want to hear the music that made America (and
> the rest of the world) great on their IPod's (or whatever
> the technology happens to hold for us, in the future)! I'm
> 45 years old, born in 1960, several years AFTER the early
> rock and roll days. But you know something? I love the
> oldies. It's ALL I listen to, for the most part. (I DO like
> Techno and Classic Rock as change of pace, from time to
> time). But, I've listened to oldies since 1972 and NEVER
> get tired of them. Thank God for XM, Sirius, WRLL, WMTR,
> WARE and OF COURSE Buffalo's 'KB/1520 (and I'd like to think
> that 'XRB would get an honorable mention there, as well).
> I'm proud to be playing that great oldies music in my little
> corner of the world.
>
> Keep the faith, folks! "Rock and Roll is here to stay!"
>
>
> 73,
>
> Peter Q. George
> http://wxrbfm.com
>
> <P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
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