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Is urban really a dying format?

B

bucwhyl

Banned
I was thinking about the situation in Pittsburgh and PPM, but then I thought about my 18 year old daughter. You would think the average African-American teenager's music choice would be hip hop and r&b. That's not the case with my daughter.

She's into the rock music. She used to watch the rock videos faithfully. She listened to her hip hop and r&b as well, but it was a mixture of both.

What I'm trying to say is, her music of choice is basically top 40.

Here she is, a young lady who graduated from a high school that is predominantly African-American and this music was her preference. Nothing wrong with that, but it just proves how times have changed.

Sometimes I wonder if we need to go back to the old style of urban radio: No hip hop station. No urban adult station. Just a people's station. A station where you can hear "The Thunderstorm", as well as, "The Quietstorm". Maybe that would bring all of us back together, and take urban radio off of life support.

Not saying that doing that would take the kids away from top 40, but having an urban station that plays music that everybody can relate to, could possibly save the format.

Just my two cents...
 
Wow...VERY enlightening. I can easily see rap/hip-hop being a turnoff to a lot of people, but to me, it looks like it's more of a you-love-it-or-hate-it deal. I think some folks feel like rap represents their "community" (or maybe "commonality") or it's just a unifier of those who feel disenfranchised from mainstream life. You've got ideas and ideals and views that aren't necessarily unbiased and it seems to be more important to rhyme than to give off any kind of accurate, well-thought, socially-responsible, positive-growth message. For those who can't make up their own minds for themselves and decide what's right and wrong for themselves, I guess it's a great crutch. (Rush Limbaugh does the same courtesy for white people.) On the other hand, there are indeed people out there who listen to rap/hip-hop purely for entertainment value. (Same for Limbaugh.)

I'm not trying to go toe-to-toe with anyone over this; it's just my 2 cents.

All I would ask or expect of ANYONE, regardless of sex, color, creed, political affiliation, etc, is to make up your own mind for yourself...research things...get educated...form a well-thought mindset...stay informed...know who the liars are...and be open-minded. Just because we all seem to hold entertainers in high regard these days does NOT imply that what they say or do is the gospel truth. (Same caveat for that thing they still call "news" and "journalism.")

Now, where was I....? Oh, yeah, Buc, you're sounding the battle cry for a return of 100.3 JAMZ again. And why not...a fully-staffed station 24-7, one that's literally entrenched in the community (and proud of it, and willing to give something back to it,) and one that proves in voice/programming/action that they ARE sincere, and they do give a damn about the listeners and the community they serve. Why is this such a foreign concept today? Older folks still have KKDA-AM, but us 25-54's of ALL colors could sure use some unity and understanding and common ground these days.
 
When I was in College, a African-american freind of mine admitted that he loved a lot of Rock music (ZZ Top, AC/DC and Van Halen) but that kind of music wasn't "cool" to his freinds. Maybe that stigma that "black people don't listen to white music" after so many decades is finally changing.

I think we're going through another generational shift with CHR radio, as the kids raised on Radio Disney as kids are now in their mid-late teenage years, and still loving upbeat pop and rock music. Plus I think the current sound of hip-hop is getting stagnant and tired with too many rappers sounding all the same. And also Guitar Hero and Rock Band have introduced pre-teens and teenagers to a lot of classic rock, and that could be a big factor in why tastes are changing.

If there was a younger version of Lenny Kravitz, geared to the pre-teenage audience as Hanna Montana and the Jonas brothers, I bet he'd blow up big.
 
Learning from my kids, it seems that music is not black/white anymore. It's just music. Now don't get me wrong. I'm happy about that, but for those who grew up on urban radio, it's a tough blow.
 
The format is suffering from an identity crisis. What is it? From what I have witnessed, there is no originality. Back in the 70's we had BANDS...now all we have are vocal groups. No one is showcasing actual musical talent. Most of these folks out these days are over processed vocalists. I do have varied musical tastes, but number one is Jazz, then most of the Neo-Soul music. I think the originality is in Neo-Soul, but can you do a 24/7/365 neo-soul format. It would be a very difficult sell to advertisers. I do think that old school hip hop could be viable, but its all about selling/marketing it. That's the key.

As quiet as its kept, young white america supports the (C)rap that is played on today's airwaves. Look at that show Super Sweet 16. You see all these white kids and their rich parents paying 10-40 thousand for rappers to come perform at a birthday party.

Buc, you ask does it bother me about the state of urban radio. My answer is no. The format left me in 1989. I have not looked back since. The record companies and radio have to share the responsibility of the demise of the format. You can only play what the companies give you. If you get crap, you play crap on the air. Thats my opinion.
 
salemjedi54 said:
The format is suffering from an identity crisis. What is it? From what I have witnessed, there is no originality. Back in the 70's we had BANDS...now all we have are vocal groups. No one is showcasing actual musical talent. Most of these folks out these days are over processed vocalists. I do have varied musical tastes, but number one is Jazz, then most of the Neo-Soul music. I think the originality is in Neo-Soul, but can you do a 24/7/365 neo-soul format. It would be a very difficult sell to advertisers. I do think that old school hip hop could be viable, but its all about selling/marketing it. That's the key.

As quiet as its kept, young white america supports the (C)rap that is played on today's airwaves. Look at that show Super Sweet 16. You see all these white kids and their rich parents paying 10-40 thousand for rappers to come perform at a birthday party.

Buc, you ask does it bother me about the state of urban radio. My answer is no. The format left me in 1989. I have not looked back since. The record companies and radio have to share the responsibility of the demise of the format. You can only play what the companies give you. If you get crap, you play crap on the air. Thats my opinion.
Click to expand...


I understand your point but, in my area its young fil-am's supports the (C)rap that is played on today's airwaves. Look at that show You see fil-am kids and their parents pay for DJ's to play loud blaring Rap Music. I am a Filipino man living in the USA who likes to listen to World Class rock, New Age, Chill, Smooth Jazz, Classic Jazz, and Classical
 
billyg said:
When I was in College, a African-american freind of mine admitted that he loved a lot of Rock music (ZZ Top, AC/DC and Van Halen) but that kind of music wasn't "cool" to his freinds. Maybe that stigma that "black people don't listen to white music" after so many decades is finally changing.

I think we're going through another generational shift with CHR radio, as the kids raised on Radio Disney as kids are now in their mid-late teenage years, and still loving upbeat pop and rock music. Plus I think the current sound of hip-hop is getting stagnant and tired with too many rappers sounding all the same. And also Guitar Hero and Rock Band have introduced pre-teens and teenagers to a lot of classic rock, and that could be a big factor in why tastes are changing.

If there was a younger version of Lenny Kravitz, geared to the pre-teenage audience as Hanna Montana and the Jonas brothers, I bet he'd blow up big.
Click to expand...


Hey billyg. I lost some friends in college because I would not have on K-104 in my room. Back in 1989 I just stopped listening to K-104. I wanted something different. I found KOAI 106.1 The Oasis. In the earlier 80's I would listen to Stevens & Pruitt on 97.1 or Pamela Steele on 92.5. I loved those stations. Y95 was a big player as well. Good Music is good music (except classical and country).
 
I think there will always be a place for Urban. The problem is that too many markets have too many urban stations. This was fine for the diary world. But because Urban does so poorly with PPM the format can no longer afford to be fragmented. It would be healthy for the format if many of the second and third tier urban stations flip formats and compete aginst the general market formats that get such big numbers with PPM. Even Urban specialists like Radio One should do this in the markets where they are not dominant. I am not refering to KBFB since they are competitive, I mean the Urban stations nationally that are really doing poorly with PPM.
 
salemjedi54 said:
The format is suffering from an identity crisis. What is it? From what I have witnessed, there is no originality. Back in the 70's we had BANDS...now all we have are vocal groups. No one is showcasing actual musical talent. Most of these folks out these days are over processed vocalists. I do have varied musical tastes, but number one is Jazz, then most of the Neo-Soul music. I think the originality is in Neo-Soul, but can you do a 24/7/365 neo-soul format. It would be a very difficult sell to advertisers. I do think that old school hip hop could be viable, but its all about selling/marketing it. That's the key.

As quiet as its kept, young white america supports the (C)rap that is played on today's airwaves. Look at that show Super Sweet 16. You see all these white kids and their rich parents paying 10-40 thousand for rappers to come perform at a birthday party.

Buc, you ask does it bother me about the state of urban radio. My answer is no. The format left me in 1989. I have not looked back since. The record companies and radio have to share the responsibility of the demise of the format. You can only play what the companies give you. If you get crap, you play crap on the air. Thats my opinion.
Click to expand...

I felt the same when the Gangsta rappers and Divas took over black radio. We have too much sound-a-like crap on black radio now.

Major record companies have such a tight grip on radio now that they'll bury any indie company from making a breakthrough with a different sound for fear of making their big hitmakers obsolete.

I miss the days of Cameo, P-Funk, Zapp & Roger, ConFunkShun, Gap Band, Heatwave (yes they could funk), Prince's various groups.. even the Commodores when Lionel wasn't doing all those sappy ballads. Those were artists who PLAYED on their records and in concert instead of programming everything into Pro Tools.
 
HIP HOP AND RAP IS WHAT KICKED OFF MY RADIO CAREER. I LOVE PERCUSSION SOUNDS. SO I'M A DRUMMER. HIP HOP AND RAP HAVE ALOT OF DRUM AND BASS SOUNDS. I LEARNED HOW TO DJ, MIXING, SCRATCHING,AND SAMPLING. SO I STARTED DJING AT MY HIGH SCHOOL RADIO STATION(88.5 KEOM). I HAVE HAD SO MUCH FUN EVER SINCE THEN.
 
Hey, don't get it twisted. Hip hop will always be a part of my life, and like a good woman, I will always love it and never abandon it.

I do have a new love in my life though: Neo-Soul. I'm 39 and like anybody else, my tastes have changed a little bit. Too bad urban radio had to go into seperation mode with urban, urban ac, etc. If it wasn't for that, I could probably hear both of my loves on the same station.
 
Interesting discussion. I just can't bring myself to listen ot K104 or the Beat. Its the same slow 2 beat sounding stuff, stretching words or creating word to rhyme, Auto Tone usage is heavy in trying to improve bad vocals. There is no real creativity, its all imagery of whose got a bad attitude, or a diva with a shrill voice. RB needs another Marvin Gaye,Smokey Robinson, Gap Band,Prince,. Groups like the Temptations,Kool and the Gang,4Tops, are needed. The formats are in a rut. Personally I like it when you heard rock, pop and RB and the announcer was live and knew the music,not the computer,title reading crap of today.
 
I listened to K104 online (I'm out of maket) Sunday afternoon and I was impressed. First of all that had to be a live jock on the air. If not she did the best job of faking it that I ever heard. Several phone calls were aired and it didn't sound canned at all. I liked all the promos, sweepers, and the overall energy of the station. They don't have that cookie cutter on autopilot sound that so many stations do today.

As far as today's urban music is concerned. Yes there is no doubt this is a weak period. Somebody I know said it best when they said it sounds like hip hop "ran out of ideas". A lot of it is stale sounding and just not very good. But if you love music like I do you will find something good on just about any station and format.

K104 did play some songs I thought were good. My favorite was probably Letoya Luckett-Regret. I also like Mario-Break Up, it has an interesting sound to it. I noticed a lot of current R&B is experimenting with drums. I know the DFW Urbans are young sounding (they always have been. I can remember in 1985 K104 played lot's of rap that you would never hear in most other markets) so I'm not sure if they play Chrisette Michele, but I think she's an excellent artist. I even like some of the hop hop out now. One of my favorites is Piles-Becky. The new Lil' Boosie K104 played sounded pretty good. For some I reason I can't warm up to Gucci Mane-Wasted. Probably my worst song in the format is Drake/Trey Songz-Successful. I think that the topic of materialism is sooo played out in the Urban format. I have always believed music should take you somewhere higher than the material plane.

My favorite Urbans to listen to (and K104 would qualify) are the ones that play virtually nothing you would hear on a CHR, even a Rhythmic. CHR is certainly very hot right now and I do love the format. But it's refreshing to listen to an Urban and hear an entirely different set of songs. The lack of burn is a huge plus to me.
 
Can I ask a question JayF and everyone else? I totally agree, today's hip hop is all about materialism:money, cars, being "iced out". But the hip hop of the late 80's/early 90's talked about criminal acts:187, peeling caps, drive-bys, f the police. Let's not forget the b!tches and hoes part of it. While today's artists is criiticized as no talent, etc., those gangsta rap artists are considered rap pioneers. So I ask the question, what's the difference? A rapper rapping about having all the things now, that they didn't have growing up, or a rapper rapping about killing someone in a drive-by, jacking someone, and killing a cop?
 
bucwhyl said:
Can I ask a question JayF and everyone else? I totally agree, today's hip hop is all about materialism:money, cars, being "iced out". But the hip hop of the late 80's/early 90's talked about criminal acts:187, peeling caps, drive-bys, f the police. Let's not forget the b!tches and hoes part of it. While today's artists is criiticized as no talent, etc., those gangsta rap artists are considered rap pioneers. So I ask the question, what's the difference? A rapper rapping about having all the things now, that they didn't have growing up, or a rapper rapping about killing someone in a drive-by, jacking someone, and killing a cop?
Click to expand...
Right, Buc. It's a rhetorical question: What's the difference? Rapping was, and always will be all about bragging. It started with the concept of "I can rap better than you", then it went to, "I'm tougher than you", then "My crew is cooler than your crew", etc. Rap music in general has always been "I can do (blank) better than you". Now it's evolved into, "I can shop and buy cooler stuff than you". It's all part of the evolution of the music. Currently, I'm not that impressed with they're bragging about these days, but I'll hang in there because I know it'll change soon enough... and with any luck, it'll come full circle and get back to bragging about skills again. I miss the days of "My only weapon is my rappin' sword."
 
billyg said:
salemjedi54 said:
The format is suffering from an identity crisis. What is it? From what I have witnessed, there is no originality. Back in the 70's we had BANDS...now all we have are vocal groups. No one is showcasing actual musical talent. Most of these folks out these days are over processed vocalists. I do have varied musical tastes, but number one is Jazz, then most of the Neo-Soul music. I think the originality is in Neo-Soul, but can you do a 24/7/365 neo-soul format. It would be a very difficult sell to advertisers. I do think that old school hip hop could be viable, but its all about selling/marketing it. That's the key.

As quiet as its kept, young white america supports the (C)rap that is played on today's airwaves. Look at that show Super Sweet 16. You see all these white kids and their rich parents paying 10-40 thousand for rappers to come perform at a birthday party.

Buc, you ask does it bother me about the state of urban radio. My answer is no. The format left me in 1989. I have not looked back since. The record companies and radio have to share the responsibility of the demise of the format. You can only play what the companies give you. If you get crap, you play crap on the air. Thats my opinion.
Click to expand...

I felt the same when the Gangsta rappers and Divas took over black radio. We have too much sound-a-like crap on black radio now.

Major record companies have such a tight grip on radio now that they'll bury any indie company from making a breakthrough with a different sound for fear of making their big hitmakers obsolete.

I miss the days of Cameo, P-Funk, Zapp & Roger, ConFunkShun, Gap Band, Heatwave (yes they could funk), Prince's various groups.. even the Commodores when Lionel wasn't doing all those sappy ballads. Those were artists who PLAYED on their records and in concert instead of programming everything into Pro Tools.
Click to expand...

"Black radio"? Pardon me, sir, but it is called "urban" for a reason because all the artists that fit the music end of the format aren't black persay.
 
bucwhyl said:
Hey, don't get it twisted. Hip hop will always be a part of my life, and like a good woman, I will always love it and never abandon it.

I do have a new love in my life though: Neo-Soul. I'm 39 and like anybody else, my tastes have changed a little bit. Too bad urban radio had to go into seperation mode with urban, urban ac, etc. If it wasn't for that, I could probably hear both of my loves on the same station.
Click to expand...

Amen, to that! I think PPM will force most urban radio stations to widen their appeal beyond the separation of "formats" such as Urban AC, Urban CHR, etc. back to the original "full-service" Urban Contemporary format. That will the best thing to occur for urban radio in a decade because I hate skewed formats.

I miss the days of variety within the urban format in which you would hear an actual R&B, hip-hop, and soul (it would be neo-soul today) songs all on the same station. I also miss the recognition of old school hits with the current stuff in a playlist with a captivating personality on your radio that talked about something other than the "liners" for the stop-break. It's a shame because urban radio used to be interesting when I was coming up.
 
kilamanjero said:
billyg said:
salemjedi54 said:
The format is suffering from an identity crisis. What is it? From what I have witnessed, there is no originality. Back in the 70's we had BANDS...now all we have are vocal groups. No one is showcasing actual musical talent. Most of these folks out these days are over processed vocalists. I do have varied musical tastes, but number one is Jazz, then most of the Neo-Soul music. I think the originality is in Neo-Soul, but can you do a 24/7/365 neo-soul format. It would be a very difficult sell to advertisers. I do think that old school hip hop could be viable, but its all about selling/marketing it. That's the key.

As quiet as its kept, young white america supports the (C)rap that is played on today's airwaves. Look at that show Super Sweet 16. You see all these white kids and their rich parents paying 10-40 thousand for rappers to come perform at a birthday party.

Buc, you ask does it bother me about the state of urban radio. My answer is no. The format left me in 1989. I have not looked back since. The record companies and radio have to share the responsibility of the demise of the format. You can only play what the companies give you. If you get crap, you play crap on the air. Thats my opinion.
Click to expand...

I felt the same when the Gangsta rappers and Divas took over black radio. We have too much sound-a-like crap on black radio now.

Major record companies have such a tight grip on radio now that they'll bury any indie company from making a breakthrough with a different sound for fear of making their big hitmakers obsolete.

I miss the days of Cameo, P-Funk, Zapp & Roger, ConFunkShun, Gap Band, Heatwave (yes they could funk), Prince's various groups.. even the Commodores when Lionel wasn't doing all those sappy ballads. Those were artists who PLAYED on their records and in concert instead of programming everything into Pro Tools.
Click to expand...

"Black radio"? Pardon me, sir, but it is called "urban" for a reason because all the artists that fit the music end of the format aren't black persay.
Click to expand...

So true...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rog8ou-ZepE
 
billyg said:
I miss the days of Cameo, P-Funk, Zapp & Roger, ConFunkShun, Gap Band, Heatwave (yes they could funk), Prince's various groups.. even the Commodores when Lionel wasn't doing all those sappy ballads. Those were artists who PLAYED on their records and in concert instead of programming everything into Pro Tools.
Click to expand...

Right on. It makes me laugh when everyone talks about the "new" Auto-Tone stuff that T-Pain does. Zapp & Roger were doing same stuff 20 years ago. But everyone had a different sound (like those you named) back in the 70's & 80's, now a lot of it is recycled crap. Nobody like Parliament, Sugar Hill Gang, Soulsonic Force, etc. anymore doing their own thing.
 
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