Is WVKO AM in trouble??

[markbohach]

No one under 50 listens to AM radio. No 18-44 year old consumer cares about radio in the first place. Ipod, Mp3, satellite, internet, cell phones, etc. All lot of other technology is on their radar. AM is not one of them.

Gee- I must have missed a memo somewhere along the line.

Judging from the bevy of 30-somethings I hear from on a weekly basis listening to Dave Ramsey or the Blue Jackets or the Indians or Ingraham or even my little local show, I must be doing something wrong.

I should have consulted you before putting another 50K into new studios last year for a standalone AM.

Well, maybe not considering our revenue was up 2.5% in '08. We're one a few stations that can make a claim like that.

Mark Bohach

 

[gr8oldies]

WLW still has some pretty strong numbers in good demos.

 

[jharmon]

just adding to the 36 pages of dribble.

 

[del_griffith]

No one under 50 listens to AM radio. No 18-44 year old consumer cares about radio in the first place. Ipod, Mp3, satellite, internet, cell phones, etc. All lot of other technology is on their radar. AM is not one of them.

Gee- I must have missed a memo somewhere along the line.

Judging from the bevy of 30-somethings I hear from on a weekly basis listening to Dave Ramsey or the Blue Jackets or the Indians or Ingraham or even my little local show, I must be doing something wrong.

I should have consulted you before putting another 50K into new studios last year for a standalone AM.

Well, maybe not considering our revenue was up 2.5% in '08. We're one a few stations that can make a claim like that.

Mark Bohach

With great admiration, I must say that's quite an accomplishment for an AM station with a very limited night signal (Lancaster primarily with little county coverage).

There are many AM stations, both small and larger market, that run a very similar operation with strong local news and public affairs, similar programs and would just about sell their soul to accompish what you have done.

What are you doing that they aren't? What's the secret?

 

[Elephant]

jharmon = genius

 

[redsfan1966]

Props to ME---for creating such a popular and inspiring thread. Props to ME---for creating a place for Sean Gilbow, Willcail and Dale Jackson to vent their respective spleens. Props to ME---for creating what will continue to be an eternal shrine to the great legacy of the one bright, shining year that progressive talk flourished on the heritage WVKO. Long may it wave!

In true Jim Rome fashion---I will give myself a tongue for my hypothetical microphone and a "rack me" for a job well done.

Finally, I hope to heck those reading this have the intelligence and sense to realize I have my tongue firmly planted in cheek..... ;D

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Newbie, there are some things more important than money. Obviously, you have a lot to learn.

Sean, frankly, that's what you and the other folks who poured their lives into WVKO, either as staff members, supporters or cheerleaders, don't realize.

In this case, it IS about the money. By definition it is.

WVKO(AM) is a *commercial* radio station. Even the St. Gabriel folks need money - to keep paying the LMA rent and towards the future purchase. They apparently are both selling spots and asking for donations, if this thread is to be believed.

The liberal talk format that went away late last month? It was operated by a long-time radio time salesman and manager (Mr. Richards). He sold (gasp!) commercials. He sold time for infomercials and even took money from the Columbus Clippers to carry their games (so it's been said, at least) in 2008. He also called play-by-play for high school sports and sold time on those broadcasts, which he has been doing for ages.

The point to my own ramblings?

Those who actively work to support the liberal talk format seem to think it's a cause, not a commercial talk radio format. They think it influences elections. This goes from supporters of the now-former WVKO format all the way up to executive ranks of Air America Radio.

You can't win elections by trying to promote a commercial talk radio format on a lower-tier high-band station, or even on WTVN.

Sure, Rush gets credited a lot with the Republican wins in Congress in 1994. But Mr. Limbaugh is no activist. Even his "Operation Chaos" in this past election cycle was a show bit more than it was any "operation".

Just the same, liberal talk radio played a very, very, very, very, microscopic part in the election of Barack Obama.

Quit thinking of talk radio (on both sides!) as an election catalyst. Think of it as a commercial format, and commercial formats are meant to bring in listeners, who provide ratings, which stations can use to sell advertising time.

 

[DaytonRadio]

Newbie, there are some things more important than money. Obviously, you have a lot to learn.

Sean, frankly, that's what you and the other folks who poured their lives into WVKO, either as staff members, supporters or cheerleaders, don't realize.

In this case, it IS about the money. By definition it is.

WVKO(AM) is a *commercial* radio station. Even the St. Gabriel folks need money - to keep paying the LMA rent and towards the future purchase. They apparently are both selling spots and asking for donations, if this thread is to be believed.

The liberal talk format that went away late last month? It was operated by a long-time radio time salesman and manager (Mr. Richards). He sold (gasp!) commercials. He sold time for infomercials and even took money from the Columbus Clippers to carry their games (so it's been said, at least) in 2008. He also called play-by-play for high school sports and sold time on those broadcasts, which he has been doing for ages.

The point to my own ramblings?

Those who actively work to support the liberal talk format seem to think it's a cause, not a commercial talk radio format. They think it influences elections. This goes from supporters of the now-former WVKO format all the way up to executive ranks of Air America Radio.

You can't win elections by trying to promote a commercial talk radio format on a lower-tier high-band station, or even on WTVN.

Sure, Rush gets credited a lot with the Republican wins in Congress in 1994. But Mr. Limbaugh is no activist. Even his "Operation Chaos" in this past election cycle was a show bit more than it was any "operation".

Just the same, liberal talk radio played a very, very, very, very, microscopic part in the election of Barack Obama.

Quit thinking of talk radio (on both sides!) as an election catalyst. Think of it as a commercial format, and commercial formats are meant to bring in listeners, who provide ratings, which stations can use to sell advertising time.

Amen brother

 

[hdtvnewbie]

Sean, frankly, that's what you and the other folks who poured their lives into WVKO, either as staff members, supporters or cheerleaders, don't realize.

In this case, it IS about the money. By definition it is.

WVKO(AM) is a *commercial* radio station. Even the St. Gabriel folks need money - to keep paying the LMA rent and towards the future purchase.

Amen Dittos! The religous example is a good analogy. Storefront and nondenominational churches are notorious for opening and going out of business. For that matter, court records have a decent number of mainline churches who have gone through foreclosure or bankruptcy. (A recent Wall Street Journal article says that church foreclosures have been significantly high during the recent downturn.) In other words, EVERYTHING is a business ..... or, to put it more mildly, you have to be able to balance your checkbook and pay your bills or you won't survive. Clear Channel, notorious for being stingy, if they can't make it pay for itself, outside of San Francisco and Madison, WI, I don't think anybody can! And, trust me, if there were money to be made under that format, they would LOVE to make it.

I think you also make a good point about the romanticists who view this as some sort of a cause. I can't understand the naivete of people who want to pour out their heart and soul to line someone else's pockets. All of these guys, from Gary Richards right up to Christopher Dodd and Tom Delay (to be bipartisan) are in it for themselves. John Glenn went into the Senate as a pauper, he is now worth $30 million ...... making $120,000 a year as a Senator. DO THE MATH! Clinton, Gingrich, Frank, Biden, etc. have turned their $120,000 jobs into multimillion dollar gigs. [EDIT]

Finally, political radio is in for a low tide right now ....... Rush and the rest championed real change--cutting governent and taxes. To some extent they were successful, but then they screwed up and championed a second-rate Presidential candidate (who has made some top-rate decisions) who believes that baseball team finance was a model for government finance ...... and they lost the war. Now people have given up ... [EDIT]


[EDIT-inflammatory & off topic]

 

[SeanMGilbow]

Contrary to what some of you would like to believe, I am not some sort of romanticist. I've have had my contentions with some of the Ohio Majority Radio people as much as I have with some of the posters here.

OMW: Not once have I ever said anything about progressive talk playing any particular role in this past election. Further, I have made clear the station was on the sales block while Gary was given the opportunity to program the station. It was also Gary's intention from the outset to have a news/talk/sports format, and sports was a major part of the format. To be honest, I would not have expected progressive talk to have been on the station a year if Gary did not have the sports programming, which helped provide revenue to finance the rest of the operation.

Newbie: Since you are relatively new, you may not be aware that I was in radio in both Akron and Parkersburg/Marietta. If I knew then I what was going to happen to the radio industry, I would have pursued a different college degree and a different career path. You may consider my income rather low, but it is a more than the majority of people in this market make in radio. When a person wrote on another thread in 2006 that he was making only $18,000 a year on the night shift and was about to be let go, it indicated to me the industry was on a downhill path.

I will be very clear, Newbie. I will never want to work in radio for a paycheck. My association with progressive talk radio was as an advertiser.

Further, Newbie, there are those who make lots of money but don't necessarily know how to manage it. Unlike my fellow members of the me generation, I own my car which I bought new (and paid off in one year), and I didn't mortgage my future by buying a home I couldn't afford. I have no debt, and I have been able to put away a nice little nest egg for my retirement.

The issue, plain and simple, is greed. And the major media companies which bought up stations and spit out employees over the last decade are a perfect example. Local talent was replaced by syndicated hosts who championed big corporations and the greed that has put us in the "fat and bankrupt" scenario you mention.

But Americans are not happy.

[EDIT]


[EDIT-off topic]

 

[gabigley1]

Props to ME---for creating such a popular and inspiring thread. Props to ME---for creating a place for Sean Gilbow, Willcail and Dale Jackson to vent their respective spleens. Props to ME---for creating what will continue to be an eternal shrine to the great legacy of the one bright, shining year that progressive talk flourished on the heritage WVKO. Long may it wave!

In true Jim Rome fashion---I will give myself a tongue for my hypothetical microphone and a "rack me" for a job well done.

Finally, I hope to heck those reading this have the intelligence and sense to realize I have my tongue firmly planted in cheek..... ;D

I always thought you started this thread because you sensed WVKO-AM was struggling with it's "Progressive Talk" format and was likely to see a rather slow and painful death. Even Cowtown Commutations own GR
said on the air(WVKO-AM) that he was surprised the format lasted as long as it did!
Why do you say the format "flourished" on WVKO-AM? To me, for that format to have flourished meant that
it would have had to be financially viable and most of us know that was not the case when it was on VKO-AM
under Cowtown Commutations. I have very little business scene but even I can figure that out because you don't go begging for cash contributions when you can't pay your bills on a commercial station. You certainly
don't hear WTVN begging for money to keep ther station on the air and you will never hear them begging for
money. In fact, I've NEVER heard of ANY commercial radio station begging for money so it can stay afloat.
This may be a first in the broadcast industry.

redsfan1966, This is your very first post on this thread you started almost nine months ago:

Noticed that tonite (5/1) that the VKO website has been "account disabled", also happened to tune in occasionaly on 4/30 to hear the trouble with the Jones Radio feeds with Bill Press and Ed Schultz....(Thom Hartmann was aired in Big Ed's slot)...could the progressive format already be in trouble here in C-Bus?

So, do some of you think the format under GR's CCs was a success? Personally, I think it was a failure because of a bad business model as had been mentioned by someone in a previous post. I've never
heard of the business term "business model" before that point. Shows you how much I know about the
business world. The bottom line to me is that this is a failed business venture and is history.

That is not to say that I hoped the format failed here. I'm acquainted with a person that was a guest on WVKO-AM. This person has make a lot of social contributions to this community in my opinion. I came up
to him and told him that WTVN would never have you on their airways. I then told him that WVKO-AM
was putting a lot of alternative voices on the air so in a scene it's a shame that "progressive talk" on VKO
is off the air. I also complained to CC Columbus when they took the format off of WTPG 1230 here in Columbus. But where dose that leave the THOUSANDS of very disappointed listeners to go because the format is NOW again off the Columbus, Ohio radio airways?
This is a niche format that some "progressive talk" listeners are very very compassionate about. Just ask
Sean and some of the other WVKO-AM cheerleaders!

 

[markbohach]

With great admiration, I must say that's quite an accomplishment for an AM station with a very limited night signal (Lancaster primarily with little county coverage).

There are many AM stations, both small and larger market, that run a very similar operation with strong local news and public affairs, similar programs and would just about sell their soul to accompish what you have done.

What are you doing that they aren't? What's the secret?
[/quote]

Del,

There are no real secrets to what we do.

There are lots of little things that go into it.

We are a mom and pop operation and we want our listeners and advertisers
to know that. We are proud to be a small fish in a huge corporate ocean.

We follow the teachings or Roy Hollister Williams religiously and we educate our clients how radio REALLY works.
We have priced our spots realistically to our market reach. By doing so, we can give a client a hundred spots per month for the cost of ONE of those billboards you see along the road. I will take full stopsets at 7 bucks a spot
over empty ones at any price.

We look for ways to add value to every buy. If a client spends a certain level, we give them a free matching flight from 7PM to 6AM. You mentioned it, our coverage after dark is limited so why not just give it as a value added. There is a reason why Verizon and other phone companies give free nights and weekends. It costs them nothing and makes for loyal customers.

As for listeners, I have to thank our local staff for getting out there and promoting the station. Anne Darling, JR Smith, Ron Moffis and Jack Greathouse are our greatest assets. They take pride in what they do on the air and they relate that when they talk to people. It also helps that Dave Ramsey and other national hosts has exploded on the scene in the last three years.

Take a look at this article- it shows our philosophy on how to equip and maintain a station.

http://radiomagonline.com/studio/wohl-new-studio-small-community-radio-0501/

There is so much more I could add but you get the idea.

MB

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

OMW: Not once have I ever said anything about progressive talk playing any particular role in this past election. Further, I have made clear the station was on the sales block while Gary was given the opportunity to program the station. It was also Gary's intention from the outset to have a news/talk/sports format, and sports was a major part of the format. To be honest, I would not have expected progressive talk to have been on the station a year if Gary did not have the sports programming, which helped provide revenue to finance the rest of the operation.

Yes, Sean...I'm aware you have at least some radio knowledge/background, and may have been more practical about it than some of the "activists" drawn to the station because of the nature of its primary format.

But I've heard you and others (on the station itself, via podcasts/streaming, etc.) talk about how important an "alternative voice" is. Really, that is no consideration in this.

The only consideration is if the number of listeners looking for whatever voice WVKO had is large enough to make it commercially viable. And I know you understand this, and the balance between Gary's other programming needs for those reasons.

But you're still part of the "preaching to the choir" group. If the "talk" part of the equation was right-wing talk, using whatever third-tier/fourth-tier (see my other thread) conservative hosts are out there, would you have even advertised or been in the building? No, of course not.

You were there, first as an advertiser and then as basically a volunteer afternoon news person (your only "pay" being in more free ad time/trade), because you agreed with the mission of the programming.m Your considerations weren't radio - and you're probably wisely out of the business full-time for very good personal and financial reasons. (And considering the state of the business in 2009, not many could blame you.)

You were there because you're "on the team"...of a format on a commercial talk radio station.

Nothing wrong with that...but admit it, you wanted to join in because you wanted to help "spread the message".

BTW, what WAS the story with the "Big Eddie investors" anyway? Who are they? Did they even dial one phone digit trying to help Gary or anyone else "buy" the FM side of WVKO? That last part was blown out of the water by, well, Gary himself in this very thread. Were you trying to "drum up hope"?

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

As for listeners, I have to thank our local staff for getting out there and promoting the station. Anne Darling, JR Smith, Ron Moffis and Jack Greathouse are our greatest assets. They take pride in what they do on the air and they relate that when they talk to people. It also helps that Dave Ramsey and other national hosts has exploded on the scene in the last three years.

Mark,

It sounds like you're "doing things right" down there in Lancaster, and the proof is in the proverbial pudding.

 

[markbohach]

As for listeners, I have to thank our local staff for getting out there and promoting the station. Anne Darling, JR Smith, Ron Moffis and Jack Greathouse are our greatest assets. They take pride in what they do on the air and they relate that when they talk to people. It also helps that Dave Ramsey and other national hosts has exploded on the scene in the last three years.

Mark,

It sounds like you're "doing things right" down there in Lancaster, and the proof is in the proverbial pudding.

We are hardly perfect and I sometimes think I am going to jinx things by talking about it.
This thread in all its 38 pages has really facinated me. Partly because I know some of the participants.
Sean Gilbow worked for me once. In fact he was the first employee we hired back at our first venture in 1992. Sean was a helluva salesperson and while we had to ultimately part company, I appreciate his efforts for us back then. Many of the clients he signed were still with us years later.

Gary Richards did the play by play sports and sold advertising at the first station we bought. (Before we took it over- we never actually worked together).

In watching the WVKO situation, there was no shortage of passion for the station. and let's not shortchange the value of passion. Without it, I would not be able to sell a dime of advertising.

However, that passion needed to be grounded in a solid business foundation. That foundation includes getting the product right technically. That costs money. WVKO's audio was sub par and the delivery was choppy. Don't get mad Gary, I'm just stating a fact.

I agree with those who say that there is room for a liberal leaning talk station in Columbus. There are compelling and interesting hosts out there. I personally like Ed Schultz and Stephanie Miller. (No, I don't really agree with a lot of what they say but they come across as people I could tilt a cold one with at the neighborhood watering hole) However, no station based on ideology alone is going to survive for long. There needs to be more.

Let's look at WTVN for a moment- since some have brought it up in this thread. What comes to mind with WTVN is a record of service to the community. Hineygate, the regular guy golf outing, Best Buckeye Coverage (Is there anybody better than Matt McCoy- another WLOH alum by the way). You may think the station sucks or that it's great but they are
so much more than just Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck. They are a complete package.

And in today's operating environment, your station needs to be a complete package.

Just a few thoughts to keep this dead horse thumping

MB

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

I agree with those who say that there is room for a liberal leaning talk station in Columbus. There are compelling and interesting hosts out there. I personally like Ed Schultz and Stephanie Miller. (No, I don't really agree with a lot of what they say but they come across as people I could tilt a cold one with at the neighborhood watering hole) However, no station based on ideology alone is going to survive for long. There needs to be more.

Agreed. And WVKO was smart enough to bring on both Steph and Ed - and within the format, you could say that Steph, especially, has a minor following in Columbus. WTPG was her first affiliate in any decent sized market, and early callers to her show used to identify themselves by locations near major Columbus landmarks.

And I'm a big fan of hers...she's a talented broadcaster that knows how to deliver the goods, as is "Big Eddie".

Entertainment works...activism doesn't. On both sides of the political ledger.

You may think the station sucks or that it's great but they are so much more than just Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck. They are a complete package.

And in today's operating environment, your station needs to be a complete package.

Well said about 'TVN. Agree with what they do or not, they're plugged into the community - a plug-in that's probably about to become even more difficult in the next few months. 610 has had better days, and more local programming, but they still manage to do a decent job down there...despite corporate budget and other pressures.

And no, I don't know if your station is "perfect" or not I've never actually heard WLOH, even in drives around Ohio. But I get the idea that you folks "get it", which a lot of even small city operators do not.

The fact you mention a number of local staffers and their connection with your community there? That's a plus.

 

[hdtvnewbie]

Well said about 'TVN. Agree with what they do or not, they're plugged into the community - a plug-in that's probably about to become even more difficult in the next few months. 610 has had better days, and more local programming, but they still manage to do a decent job down there...despite corporate budget and other pressures.

I run my own business, so I understand the need to watch your expenses. I also understand the theory of going local only at key times when it's justified by revenue. That said, with only 7 hours of local programming, 610 has become a hollowed out shell. I'm a Rush fan, but as to the rest of the schedule, there is simply no reason to listen to any of the rest of their syndicated shows. IMO, there is no excuse for a station like 610 not being local until at least 9 or 10 pm (except for Rush, of course). At the very least they should have someone giving you the temperature outside at the top and bottom of the hour ....... Hellooooooooo is somebody there??? 610 I think can be analogized to Kroger. They don't make any money after 10 pm, but they stay open 24 hours for a broader purpose ... to capture overall market share and to be convenient for its customers. That is what the Clear Channel folks forgot when they gutted 610.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

That is what the Clear Channel folks forgot when they gutted 610.

I don't disagree with everything you write.

But their drive-time local programming (BC in the morning, Corby in PM drive) is insanely popular, and the station could well have been "gutted" even more.

It's a tough world we're in right now, and it looks like it's about to get tougher on the Clear Channel side of things, if the various reports out today are right.

I'm fully in favor of a lot of live, local programming...but sadly, the radio world has changed, both economically and service-wise. They've still done pretty well down there, considering their situation. Let's see what happens Tuesday...or whenever it happens.

 

[hdtvnewbie]

I'm fully in favor of a lot of live, local programming...but sadly, the radio world has changed, both economically and service-wise. They've still done pretty well down there, considering their situation. Let's see what happens Tuesday...or whenever it happens.

Yes, the world has indeed changed. But WTVN is the sole full-service commercial news-talk station, in a market with virtually no other decent AM signals. I think you can justify more than two local hosts on a station like that. Besides, listening to blowhard Sean Hannity repeating himself incessantly, or Glenn Beck talk about what messages he is getting lately from God (he did that this morning) ... what can I say other than that kind of programming shouldn't be on THE city's big AM station!!! I don't want some washed up ex-DJ pontificating ... I WANT TO BE ENTERTAINED!!! They supposedly cater to my politics and I can't stand either of them!!!

 

[Chuck Douglas]

While locally programmed HOURS may be less than ideal to many, think about the number of local PEOPLE on 610.

Maybe Tuesday will bring changes but as of now and aside from my little fill-in contributions we have (as best as my memory can do):

Bob Conners
John Corby (Joe Bradley)
Dirk Thompson
Ron Wilson
Ben Johnson
Dave Maetzold
Chuck Gillespie
Luann Stoia
Ken Stevens
Christy Chatman
Nicole Franks
Scott Gerfen
Collin Smith
Stephanie Bouegher
Ron Smith
Craig Sinclair
Matt McCoy
Larry Larson
Stan Jackson
Bill Conley
Art Schlichter
Earle Bruce
Tony White

That list is not too shabby...and considering the stuff I read on here about the company, it's dang near amazing!

40,000 people in this country were told today that they no longer have jobs. None worked for ClearChannel, most worked for Circuit City. How about the GM plant in Lordstown? What about the 6000 DHL jobs? What of the Columbus Mayor telling employees to forego pay raises or face job losses?

Remember the sign at the George H.W. Bush rally: "IT'S THE ECONOMY, STUPID"?
Well, it IS the economy for all of us, not just CC.