Is WVKO AM in trouble??

[DaleGriffin]

All radio is hurting and this all goes back to my much earlier point in this thread... Liberal talk is not business freindly, that makes it a very had sell with no ratings.

This shows that a big dog like CC couldn't make a go with it AND a start up couldn't make a go with either.

Would it be a wise move for someone else to try again?

I call concern trolling here.

The start-up had shown an improvement in the ratings here. Clearly their numbers will be higher than whatever St. Gabriel radio gets. The numbers we've seen are not even a full year on the air, with a crippled signal. Think what a competitive signal could do. Think what a little promotion money could do. In a year or two, I suspect the WVKO's of the world won't be the only signals available at fire sale prices.

As for liberal radio being "business unfriendly", let's compare it to what is probably the most business-friendly format of all: business talk radio. Surely the most pro-business format would be one that celebrates American capitalism in all its forms, right? Yet the format doesn't exist in most markets. The biggest success (WBBR in New York) is on solely to promote Mayor Bloomberg's two-screen machines with keyboards of many colors. The other business radio stations subsist as brokered time outlets for stock software and gold hawkers. I'm not sure there's ever been such a station in Columbus. Business radio has no KPOJ, no KPTK, no station that can be pointed to as an obvious success -- just a lot of marginal stations that test every business school textbook concept -- including Chapter 11.


I live in a market where business radio has been tried (and failed) at least four times in the past 20 years -- 1990, 1991, 2000, 2001 and 2002. By that yardstick, liberal talk has at least three more tries left it in...

Were not talking about business talk, liberal talk is the issue. I imagine business talk has the same issues because the market just doesnt seem to be there for it.

Here's a question that I hve had regarding talk radio and advertisers... I read of a liberal host complaining that car dealerships wouldn't advertise with her because she was preaching autos are kill the earth/big business bad (or something similar) but I notice car dealers (GM/Ford etc) are still advertising on talk radio even though the conservative hosts are feverishly anti-bailout. Why?

 

[Chuck Douglas]

I read of a liberal host complaining that car dealerships wouldn't advertise with her because she was preaching autos are kill the earth/big business bad (or something similar) but I notice car dealers (GM/Ford etc) are still advertising on talk radio even though the conservative hosts are feverishly anti-bailout. Why?

Ratings. Content and political ideals are meaningless. If a talk host preached a message that all people of a certain race/religion/political lean/skin color etc. should be hung by their toes, covered in honey and dipped into a pit of fire ants,  I may personally find that to be offensive garbage, but if huge numbers of people with the inclination and ability to buy possum steaks listened to that program, Possum inc. would buy every available commercial minute.

Ideology has nothing to do with what is on the airwaves. It's about business.

 

[smedge2006]

I read of a liberal host complaining that car dealerships wouldn't advertise with her because she was preaching autos are kill the earth/big business bad (or something similar) but I notice car dealers (GM/Ford etc) are still advertising on talk radio even though the conservative hosts are feverishly anti-bailout. Why?

Probably because Michigan auto workers haven't made an issue of it -- yet. There are sites that advocate "boycotting Alabama" and such -- but I think if GM and Ford chose to make an issue of it, you'd hear that anti-bailout talk disappear fast. Radio stations and networks are notoriously fearful of ticking off any part of the auto industry. Personalities have been fired for it (see Q100, Atlanta, a few years back).

Ratings. Content and political ideals are meaningless. If a talk host preached a message that all people of a certain race/religion/political lean/skin color etc. should be hung by their toes, covered in honey and dipped into a pit of fire ants, I may personally find that to be offensive garbage, but if huge numbers of people with the inclination and ability to buy possum steaks listened to that program, Possum inc. would buy every available commercial minute.

Would that it were so. In San Diego, Sacramento, Atlanta, and of course Columbus, among other places, the programming that succeeded liberal talk got lower ratings than liberal talk. Didn't matter that liberal talk did better than its successor formats. Liberal talk got higher ratings than St. Gabriel Radio ever will, but in the end it didn't matter. WVKO has been bought out by people who believe that those who don't hold certain religious views will be dropped into a pit of fire at some point, probably including a lot of the former listeners of that station. The fact that they won't get any ratings doesn't matter.

I would add this: The fact that a bunch of rank amateurs, operating on a shoestring in a pigsty, with terrible audio and all kinds of technical problems, on a signal at the high end of the AM band, managed to break out of fractional Arbitron territory should be a stinging rebuke to 1230, WTDA and all the other so-called "professionally run" stations in the Columbus market.

 

[Chuck Douglas]

smedge2006

You're confusing two questions.
1. Why do advertisers buy time on a station? (That's what was asked.)

Answer-They want to reach an audience that contains potential business for their product or service.

2. Why does a station owner or ownership group choose to air or to not air certain programming? (A question I think more closely addresses your point.)

Answers are numerous and various. It's not always about ratings. Sometimes it's about strategy. Sometimes it's about contractual agreements. Sometimes it's about necesity. I don't think any owner of any size is in the game to lose but 'winning" is subjective.

 

[DaleGriffin]

Would that it were so. In San Diego, Sacramento, Atlanta, and of course Columbus, among other places, the programming that succeeded liberal talk got lower ratings than liberal talk. Didn't matter that liberal talk did better than its successor formats. Liberal talk got higher ratings than St. Gabriel Radio ever will, but in the end it didn't matter. WVKO has been bought out by people who believe that those who don't hold certain religious views will be dropped into a pit of fire at some point, probably including a lot of the former listeners of that station. The fact that they won't get any ratings doesn't matter.

This is about ROI, the seller wasn't getting anything from liberal talk and could get something from the church group. VKO was NOT successful for their advertisers, ask Sean Gilbow he straight up stated he lost money on his ads (including trade for news work) and they had trouble making ends meet.

I would add this: The fact that a bunch of rank amateurs, operating on a shoestring in a pigsty, with terrible audio and all kinds of technical problems, on a signal at the high end of the AM band, managed to break out of fractional Arbitron territory should be a stinging rebuke to 1230, WTDA and all the other so-called "professionally run" stations in the Columbus market.

What? If anything it spoke to how much sense it made to dump the dog of a format. It's not all about ratings it's about money too.

 

[smedge2006]

What? If anything it spoke to how much sense it made to dump the dog of a format. It's not all about ratings it's about money too.

We all know we have to grade on a curve here. Liberal talk pulled a one share on a station at the high end of the band that lost its heritage glow long ago. After ONE YEAR! Talk formats take time to build. One consultant says you can't judge a talker until SIX BOOKS IN! That's 18 months!

A one share on WTVN would be disastrous. A one share on WVKO(AM) is way overachieving. When Rush Limbaugh pulled such numbers on incredibly small stations in the early 90's, big stations took the chance. That isn't likely to happen here because of groupthink and well-documented ideological biases in ownership and middle management.

As far as the allegation of bias in the Dispatch article: the Dispatch is a notoriously right-wing newspaper and no one thinks its management wants to see liberal talk flourish. I don't blame people for reading into the dismissive way it was handled.

As far as advertiser response, factors such as the small size and (mostly) relative inexperience of the staff may have made it more difficult to frame the advertisers' messages.

Would you be proud to own or run the station with a zero share that hasn't made the Arbitron in 30 years but makes a modest profit from preachers and colon cleansing shows?

The former Jacor news-talkers focused on ratings and let the money take care of itself. Other companies chose to be more sales-driven. Most of the ex-Jacor talkers (WGST excepted) still dominate their markets today, despite years of erosion. An ownership/management like that (but without the right-wing bias of Jacor) would have worked on goosing that one share into a six.
Better signal, lots of promotion, maybe a local host or two. What would WVKO have been on WTVN's signal with promotion, local hosts and a news department?

Liberal talk is not a dog in Columbus. It's a healthy kitten, despite two attempts to stuff it in a sack and drown it. It will rise again.

 

[redsfan1966]

As much as I am disappointed in the loss of the "progressive" format on VKO as an option--I dont blame Bernard Media for swapping out. Mr. Richards and his crew were operating on a shoestring budget and St. Gabriel came in with ready cash with a clear intention to eventually purchase.

More disturbing (and I understand timing may be an issue) is 103.9's switch to an even more right-wing and boring format than even 1230's (Jim Rome and O'Reilly aside). Just by picking up Stephanie Miller and Ed Schultz and maybe even Rachel Maddow on a limited basis--they would have a built in bump for their ratings. Even if Mr. Fish is a rightie (as has been rumored); he should be able to swallow some personal preference for an audience.

And yes, Hal was the "Kingfish" a long, long time ago....

 

[gr8oldies]

If Jacor was so right wing, how do you explain Carmine Guzman in Cincy?

 

[Limp73]

AS of Christmas Eve WVKO-AM 1580 began simulcasting WUCO 1270 "St. Gabriel Radio"

The website has been redesigned and agknowledges the takeover of programming on WVKO.

http://www.stgabrielradio.com

Don't know if they bought the station outright or if they are leasing it from Bernard.

St. Gabriel also operates repeater WFOT-FM in Lexington near Mansfield.

Their new top of the hour ID mentions both WUCO and WVKO but not WFOT-FM
(does WFOT have its own ID?...or are they dropping the FM in favor of WVKO's better coverage area?)

The liberal talk format remains as a stand alone internet-only station as "Ohio Majority Radio" on the old WVKO site

at http://www.wvko1580.com

 

[SeanMGilbow]

Three things:

1. Dale Jackson is paying a heck of a lot of attention to what's happening up here in Columbus. With the financial troubles Cumulus is facing, one would think he would be paying attention to keeping his job in Huntsville rather than perusing the WVKO message board, where he read about my non-affiliation with Ohio Majority Radio--not here.

2. The station was for sale when progressive talk began airing a year ago, and Gary Richards was aware the sale could happen at any time. St. Bernard is the process of raising the money to buy the AM in a capital campaign. The question will be whether the money will all be raised.

3. I do see Gary and progressive talk resurfacing.

But my comments about the Columbus radio market still stand: It is dying a slow and painful death.

 

[DaleGriffin]

sean why are you attacking me?

Don't worry about my job here... ratings on WVNN higher than ever... same with morning show... I'm fine.

 

[gabigley1]

Found this posted on theohiomajorityradio website. It seems to me that Dave is not giving the Columbus Dispatch the whole truth in repose to this article in the Columbus Dispatch:

http://www.dispatch.com/live/conten...2-28-08_E5_E2CB29P.html?type=rss&cat=&sid=101

Gary Richards and Cowtown Communications* made an announcement at the end of last May that sales were slow at WVKO-AM and they were having problems paying their bills and may have to leave the air because of
that. That was the so called "BAD NEWS".

They then asked their listeners to make contributions to the radio station so it could stay on the air. That was labeled, "The Good news". Well, WVKO-AM may have not received enough financial support from it's listeners because it abruptly went off the air. For all we know, the Catholic group may also have a month-to-month contract. Cowtowns money should be just as good as the Catholic groups money so maybe Cowtown gave notice that he didn't want to lease WVKO-AM radio any more because they couldn't pay the bills. To quote one the the programmers on WVKO-AM, "Things that don't get support tend to go away" and
that looks like the case here. Like Blood is to a body money is to a business very survival.
* See my previous post on this topic.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ohiomajorityradio/message/5202

Aargh! The Dispatch did it again. Message List

Here's what I just emailed to Tim Ferranand Ann Fisher. Their emails
are 'tferan@...'; 'afisher@...'

Dave

-----------------------
SUBJECT: So I'm a Catholic Now?

Tim:

I know that newspaper writing sometimes verges on telegraphese, but
imagine my surprise when I read:

"WVKO (1580 AM) was unable to gain support for its liberal-talk format
and switched to a religious format."

Not to be picky, but when WVKO celebrated it's 1-year anniversary this
month at Studio 35, people had to be turned away at the door. So there
was support.

If you meant there was not enough support to keep the station going
and growing, I don't think that conclusion is evident.

In fact, what happened was a Catholic group bought the station out
from under Gary Richards, who had a month-to-month contract. At least
that's how I understood what he told me.

So it was not Gary, or Cowtown Communications, that got religion. It
was the ownership that changed. (And, if we progressives all suddenly
converted, I would think it would have been front page news.
Especially the extreme right-wing Obama-bashing Catholics you hear on
1580 now. "The most anti-life administration in American history...".
Sheesh!)

And we at Ohio Majority Radio (separate from WVKO) are not giving up.
Our web site continues to stream progressive radio. Just add antennae.

Meanwhile, we are asking fans to go to the web site and continue to
support our past sponsors.

Thanks!

Dave Daulton

Three things:

3. I do see Gary and progressive talk resurfacing.

But my comments about the Columbus radio market still stand: It is dying a slow and painful death.

Garry's very last words before he was "evicted" from the WVKO-AM studio was "GOODBYE COLUMBUS". He did say he was "evicted" from the station so that makes it sound to me like he was not paying his monthly rent for the station. The reasons for that may be above.

"GOODBYE COLUMBUS" is a hint and read in between the lines and you will get the message that "Progressive Talk" AND Cowtown Communications are history in Columbus. As far as "Progressive Talk" format, it may resurface in Columbus but only with a group with deeper pockets that is willing to give the format a decent chance to succeed.

 

[SeanMGilbow]

The station got the contributions from across the nation. This led to the station meeting its obligations through the lean months.

I cannot from memory say from which state contributions came the furthest, but it was either Alaska or Hawaii.

Keep in mind: If Bernard had a problem with delinquent payments, Gary would not have mentioned talks underway for 103.1. And my conversation with Chris McMurray from Bernard's home office in Texas indicated the bills were being paid. This was a couple of months ago.

I have left a message with Bart Logan, whose dad is Gary's attorney, to see if any contact has been made from Ed Schultz' investors.

I again need to mention I have no affiliation with Ohio Majority Radio group and never have, even though I do post on the Yahoo! group periodically. That was made clear when I said I was moving on in that the WVKO website is not hosting Ed Schultz' podcast.

Personally, I have been tempted to provide some of the members upset with my decision with Dale Jackson's public e-mail address, as accessible on his station's website, so the verbal sparring can be done directly with the Ohio Majority Radio folks without me serving as a middleman. I would rather have the two extremes fight amongst themselves if they so desire.

Unless I have something new to share in the next couple of days...Happy New Year.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

The station got the contributions from across the nation. 

Why do you think that happened?  To support LibTalk in general?  Or for a more-directed purpose, e.g., to help Obama get elected in this swing state?  Or just because out-of-towners were listening via the website?  Or ex-Columbusites?  Or ??

 

[SeanMGilbow]

I would say it's a combination of supporting the format in general and listening on the webcast. The webmasters have done a good job in maintaining the site.

 

[DaleGriffin]

Sean,

What exactly have I said in this thread that warrants you contemplating anything about me.

I explained adverts weren't getting results and refrenced that the biggest vko cheerleader stated so. How does this make me extreme? You said it.

I have not mention politics at all, this is a perfect example of the business model not being successful. A packed bar does not mean you have advertising support. Quit being so sensitive.

 

[SeanMGilbow]

Your words, Dale:

If anything it spoke to how much sense it made to dump the dog of a format.

The format was not dumped, Dale. The station had been looking for a buyer for more than a year and found one. The question now is whether St. Gabriel will meet its end of the bargain, as it is now trying to solicit $2 million in donations.

That said, I will let the members of Ohio Majority Radio share their thoughts.

 

[DaleGriffin]

fair enough... let me rephrase that...

The failure to deliver for advertisers such as Sean Gilbow should give other operators pause when considering this dog of a format.

I will update everyone on what Sean accomplishes when he sicks his dogs on me.

My guess will be 5 emails.

 

[SportsRadioDoc]

Hi, I'm WVKO's dead horse... Please stop beating me!

 

[DaleGriffin]

this thread will never die...

thump
thump
thump