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It All Sounds The Same

rbrucecarter5 said:
As for the critics of Christian rock - I know of your hatred, intolerance, dogmatism, and hypocrisy. I've experienced it first hand. You go slam somebody's ministry because you don't like the style of music, then make it sound like you speak for God. You do not. You are only foisting your personal musical taste on the rest of us. Knock it off - you don't know anything about Christian rock, and you certainly don't speak for God. Psalm 150

Someone do me a favor. I am somewhere beyond the teen age years.... shoot, I'm beyond the middle-age crazy years. I don't know that I have ever heard Christian rock. (My generation assumes that term is an oxymoron. ;D ) Someone share with me an on-line source where I can listen to Christian rock. I would like to participate in this conversation but I would want my participation to have some integrity on the topic. Also, maybe a website where I read something about the genre.
 
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
rbrucecarter5 said:
As for the critics of Christian rock - I know of your hatred, intolerance, dogmatism, and hypocrisy. I've experienced it first hand. You go slam somebody's ministry because you don't like the style of music, then make it sound like you speak for God. You do not. You are only foisting your personal musical taste on the rest of us. Knock it off - you don't know anything about Christian rock, and you certainly don't speak for God. Psalm 150

Someone do me a favor. I am somewhere beyond the teen age years.... shoot, I'm beyond the middle-age crazy years. I don't know that I have ever heard Christian rock. (My generation assumes that term is an oxymoron. ;D ) Someone share with me an on-line source where I can listen to Christian rock. I would like to participate in this conversation but I would want my participation to have some integrity on the topic. Also, maybe a website where I read something about the genre.

http://www.radiou.com/ a good source of Christian Rock (and it's an FM too) ... I would give you a link to my own station but we lean CHR (and play some of that praise-y stuff people here complain about) :)
 
I used to be one of those rabid "Anti-Rock" people. Now, I have matured in the LORD. I have learned "do not put God into a box". While I do, readily, admit that it is NOT my cup of tea, I do NOT say "God can't use that" like I used to. Just because *I* don't like it, doesn't mean God can't use it. Lessons learned. :)

If you want to hear an *EXTREME* view on this... the (former? still?) president of BBN goes so far as to call ANYTHING with a drum beat Satanic. Steve Green, Larnelle Harris, 4-Him, Integrity's Hosanna!... all demonic, according to him. That is definitely the most radical, extreme opinion I have ever heard! Makes the anti-rock rhetoric sound mild.
 
WPHA said:
If you want to hear an *EXTREME* view on this... the (former? still?) president of BBN goes so far as to call ANYTHING with a drum beat Satanic. Steve Green, Larnelle Harris, 4-Him, Integrity's Hosanna!... all demonic, according to him. That is definitely the most radical, extreme opinion I have ever heard! Makes the anti-rock rhetoric sound mild.

2 Praise the LORD with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings. 3 Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise. - Psalm 33

3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp. 4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. 5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals. - Psalm 150

Sounds kind of loud like a Christian rock band to me. BTW a timbrel is a tambourine, which is nothing more than a small drum with cymbals in the side. So much for BBN's opinion on drums. I'll take God's opinion over any opinion of merely human origin.
 
MikefromDelaware said:
rbrucecarter5, have you considered starting an online Christian Rock station. The young use online more than radio anyhow and that trend will only grow, plus that probably is cheaper to do and you have total control of what you're doing vs trying to make your show fit a particular station's "format". Also your show could be heard anywhere around the world, as well with I-phones, MP-3's, etc.

Probably won't happen. I've had my fill of whining crying spiritual babies that spout out KJV only'ism, anti-Christian rock'ism, and half a dozen other distractions from what they ought to be doing, which is drawing people to faith in Christ - not fighting these trivial issues.

Doing Christian radio is doing something I no longer have to offer. I feel like one of those salmon fish - having sum a hundred miles upstream against the current, having spawned my guts out, laying on the gravel drying up. I've done my stint in Christian radio. I'd prefer jumping into a great white shark tank with a bleeding wound - than diving back into the back biting, gossiping, hostile world of Christian radio again. The secular world could take some cruelty and hostile takeover lessons from Christian radio, because the things I've seen first hand are atrociously vicious and calculated.

I can truthfully say, if I were to judge Christianity by the behavior of its adherents, I should never have become one myself. Thankfully, I can look to Christ instead of his followers for sincerity. It can truly be said that Christianity attracts people who want to control other people, and use the authority of Christianity to try to accomplish that evil end. It can also be said that God is not fooled by their expressions of false piety. Their misdeeds are known, and their judgement set. 25000 or so days to be manipulatively evil on Earth pales to insignificance compared to the eternity of judgement awaiting them.
 
WPHA said:
I used to be one of those rabid "Anti-Rock" people. Now, I have matured in the LORD. I have learned "do not put God into a box". While I do, readily, admit that it is NOT my cup of tea, I do NOT say "God can't use that" like I used to. Just because *I* don't like it, doesn't mean God can't use it. Lessons learned. :)

and Yes it does work -- I am proof of that... Came to know Jesus thru Christian Rock Radio in 2000! :)
 
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:

Someone do me a favor. I am somewhere beyond the teen age years.... shoot, I'm beyond the middle-age crazy years. I don't know that I have ever heard Christian rock. (My generation assumes that term is an oxymoron. ;D )

I, the MightyFrenchman, am a 57-year old babyboomer who became a born-again Christian while a college student back in 1974. One of the first CCM groups I heard was the heavy-metal Christian group, Resurrection Band. Or as most people knew them, Rez Band. On Halloween night when Carbondale's Illinois Ave. would get closed down because of all the students getting drunk & stoned, Rez Band would come down from Chicago, set up a stage in the street in the middle of it all and start jammin' Gospel hard rock at the gates of hell.
 
My objection to so-called "Christian rock" (as much as my limited listening provides) is the virtual complete lack of musical talent the performers exhibit. Nothing but over-driven and repetitive noise. To be sure, there are musicians in the CCM genre who do have talent and are worth listening to but none of them seem to exist in the rock genre. And this is not to say that the other rock genre's are devoid of musical embarrassments. It's almost like the Grunge Rock folks made a move en masse to CR.
 
landtuna said:
so-called "Christian rock"

- opinionated statement against Christian artists who perform a different genre of music than you are accustomed to hearing. You have no right to judge another person's musical taste, nor the sincerity of their walk with Christ. Leave the quotes off of Christian, and leave off the term so-called before we will have an intelligent conversation.

landtuna said:
My objection to so-called "Christian rock" (as much as my limited listening provides) is the virtual complete lack of musical talent the performers exhibit. Nothing but over-driven and repetitive noise.

Your opinion, not something many of us on this board would agree with. You don't like it personally, don't listen. But do not presume to sit in the judgement seat of Christ and make pronouncements from on high to the rest of us concerning the validity of the ministry of Christian rock artists. And do not presume to judge the musical talent in a musical style you personally know nothing about. What is noise to you is music to somebody else's ears, and many of these Christian rock artists begin as classically trained musicians, or playing music in churches. Were I one of those artists, I would be deeply insulted by what you said and the way you said it.

I could make the exact same statements about Southern gospel artists, because I loathe the musical style. I do not make such statements. I thank God for them, because they reach people for Christ, and bless those who already know Christ. I'd make the same statement about praise and worship, hymns, Christian country, and any other genre of Christian music. Thank you, Lord, that they exist to serve the needs of the people they reach. When I see your attitude as equally grateful for Christian rock and the people it reaches for Christ, I will have a lot more respect for you.
 
O.K. Hoss. You about got all that out of your system now? You showed up out of the blue about 10 messages ago and began ranting about people who exercise judgement on you in the name of the KJV only routine and other belief systems. Now you want to cry foul when someone doesn't like the music you adore.

Wouldn't it be fair about here to say that you are trying to "sit in the judgement seat of Christ and make pronouncements from on high to the rest of us concerning the validity of the ministry of Christian belief systems" regarding translations of the Bible.

Let it rest. The Board Editor is not going to tolerate this kind of bickering. At best we will find the topic moved to Take It Outside. At worst some of us will lose our log-on privileges.

We need to circle back around and address radio. Radio is known as BROADCASTING, not NARROWCASTING. Whether it is News/Talk, pop music, country music or any other genre of radio, station operators tend to focus on programming content they think will result in the largest, most "productive" audience they can put together. For commercial stations that results in the best possible revenue and profit combination. For non-profit stations, both in the NPR and Community style radio along with religious broadcasting, there is a goal of maximum effective audience reach. Today a lot of people across the country are apparently receiving some "judgement" from the Clear Channel company. Another day it is those who long to do Christian radio who find themselves being shown the door.

We just have to learn to live with it.
 
The Rockers are out there, it's just that cycle that leaves very few over the air choices to hear them... Many have had mainstream following over the last 25 years.. Skillett, Mat Kearney and others seem to pop up on alternative channels.. But, we are in a bad economy and that pushes an era of 'play it safe' and the variety of formats wains, as it does in AC and CHR... In commerical, mainstream the same thing is happening.. A lot of cardboard narrowcasting to hit the money demos.... ie... Today the ax is falling at Clear Channel and the other "C" company are automating and taking local voice out of successful stations for profit margin.. It's the times..
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
- opinionated statement against Christian artists who perform a different genre of music than you are accustomed to hearing. You have no right to judge another person's musical taste, nor the sincerity of their walk with Christ. Leave the quotes off of Christian, and leave off the term so-called before we will have an intelligent conversation.

My, "we" are certainly defensive! If you would re-read my post you would see I neither judged anyone's musical tastes nor their religion. I said the "Christian rock" music I have heard is over-amp'd repetative noise and inferred it is similar to grunge rock. I did not impune the lyrics or subject matter (as if the lyrics were intelligible anyway). It is obvious we don't share musical tastes.

And because I was replying to another post which had used "Christian rock" instead of the official genre name of CCM I used quotes. I'm sorry if you don't agree with my grammar.

rbrucecarter5 said:
Your opinion, not something many of us on this board would agree with.

Of course it is my opinion, just as is yours. I do not assume though you speak for the "many of us on this board".


rbrucecarter5 said:
You don't like it personally, don't listen. But do not presume to sit in the judgement seat of Christ and make pronouncements from on high to the rest of us concerning the validity of the ministry of Christian rock artists.

I wasn't aware I had made a "pronouncement" as my intention was only to comment upon the music itself. I also wasn't aware the artists considered their work a "ministry". In my experience, ministers, need some form of formal religious education while an artist can be self-proclaimed. To me, these artists are in the same category as any other music maker and I will judge them accordingly.


rbrucecarter5 said:
And do not presume to judge the musical talent in a musical style you personally know nothing about. What is noise to you is music to somebody else's ears, and many of these Christian rock artists begin as classically trained musicians, or playing music in churches. Were I one of those artists, I would be deeply insulted by what you said and the way you said it.

With all due respect you don't know what I do or do not know. Suffice to say it was my opinion and AFAIK I have the same right as anyone else on the board to post an opinion.

I also do not profess to know how much, or little, training any of these artists have. I can only judge what I hear and from what I hear they may of gotten cheated on the cost of their education. If it is any consolation I feel much the same way about Hip-Hop, Rap, Metal or autotuned modern Pop and absolutely refuse to listen to any form of opera. I have yet to receive criticism from one of their artists or admirers.

Artists of any kind will tell you they must have thick skin when it comes to pleasing everyone. It won't happen. The fact that one person does not appreciate the artist's offerings does not mean that the artist cannot be respected as a person.

rbrucecarter5 said:
I could make the exact same statements about Southern gospel artists, because I loathe the musical style. I do not make such statements. I thank God for them, because they reach people for Christ, and bless those who already know Christ. I'd make the same statement about praise and worship, hymns, Christian country, and any other genre of Christian music. Thank you, Lord, that they exist to serve the needs of the people they reach. When I see your attitude as equally grateful for Christian rock and the people it reaches for Christ, I will have a lot more respect for you.

And there is the difference between you and me. I am judging the music without regard for its message and you just the opposite. I did not condemn your music's message, only its delivery.

Although I do not believe in religion of any kind I do respect the feelings of the people who do. My major issue with believers is, more often than not, they do not reciprocate.
 
Music is very personal. Music is very powerful. It can move you to tears, it can make you jump for joy. Music is where memories linger. Anyone who's been in love probably remembers YOUR song. Or hear a song from years ago and have some obscure memory come back. God create music. As with many things, mankind has corrupted this beautiful gift from God. Some use music to honor, praise, and bless our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Others use music to sing of sinful, evil, and hateful things.

As to worship music and Christian music in general. Each of us probably has certain songs that lift us to the heights of worship. Other worship songs do this for others in the body of Christ. Some like Gregorian Chant as is done in the Lutheran Mass. Others like hymns from Charles Wesley. Still others like the folk hymns that were popular in the Catholic Church in the 1960's-70's. Others will like early praise music like "He's Everything to Me" or "Pass it On". Others like Hosanna Praise, others Vineyard praise, others Michael W. Smith's praise, others White Heart, others, Urban Gospel, or Country Gospel, Jars of Clay, or bagpipes playing Amazing Grace, etc, etc. All of it, if being used to glorify Christ is good. We each may have our preference which is why we all don't tend to worship together as our individual likes. Isn't it cool that the Lord gave us so many options in music to choose from.

Now in terms of radio, it cost money to run a radio station, be it commercial or non-comm. Certain parts of the nation will skew differently. In the Northeast, it's pretty hard to find a Country Gospel type station, yet you'll have no problem finding Urban Gospel, Hymns, and Top 40 CCM. In the South, especially away from the larger cities, probably can find those Country Gospel stations, but maybe not as many CCM or Urban Gospel. Each market is different.

The point is, the owner of the station needs to know what Christ Centered music the largest block of his/her audience will want to hear. They may offer some alternative music styles in off hours or weekends, etc. It is what it is.

That's why I suggested rbrucecarter5 start his own online Christian Rock Music station. No one else is the boss, just you and the Lord. That eliminates all that stuff you mentioned when you answered my post. Your online station has an employee of 2, YOU as the worker, and Jesus Christ as the boss. That's the way to do what you feel lead to do. It may be more work, etc, but you can't make someone else have your vision. Only God can do that. Apparently they don't have the same vision as you. So if God really gave you that vision, he'll find a way for you to do it, maybe NOT as you'd invision, plan A didn't work, but God has plan Z.

What I'd suggest is to first, ask the Lord to help take the anger away from you. I totally understand it, but it may be keeping you from being able to hear God's quiet voice. Then take some time and just wait and seek Christ and HIS will. If God told you to do a Christian Music show that featured Gregorian Chant would you do it? Or say, THAT can't possibly be of God. So often we can get behind a good idea we like as being from God, but say it can't be of God when it's not our cup of tea. So empty yourself of all that. Be willing to do a music show of Gregorian Chant or old Wesley, Luther, and Bach hymns if that's what God wants.

Just remember God is to be our pilot, not the co-pilot. It may be that God wants you to do Christian Rock. If that's the case, then you should ask the Lord to guide you as to how to do this, online, on the radio, on a cable TV station, as a DJ at a Christian Rollerskating event, etc, etc. God may have you start out small, to trust you with something small first before giving you the bigger job. Rest and Trust in him. Christ has your answer. Be open to hear the entire answer.

Blessing to you brother.
 
I am a PD at a CCM station. Why does it all sound the same? In a word - Research. The sound is what our listeners WANT. I've been around CCM radio since the late 80s. I have a wide variety of taste in music. BUT this station is not my personal jukebox. My job is to give my listeners what they want...and what I'm playing is what they want. Sorry it doesn't match your musical preferences but then that's why God made the iPod.
 
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
Let it rest. The Board Editor is not going to tolerate this kind of bickering. At best we will find the topic moved to Take It Outside. At worst some of us will lose our log-on privileges.

We need to circle back around and address radio. Radio is known as BROADCASTING, not NARROWCASTING. Whether it is News/Talk, pop music, country music or any other genre of radio, station operators tend to focus on programming content they think will result in the largest, most "productive" audience they can put together. For commercial stations that results in the best possible revenue and profit combination. For non-profit stations, both in the NPR and Community style radio along with religious broadcasting, there is a goal of maximum effective audience reach. Today a lot of people across the country are apparently receiving some "judgement" from the Clear Channel company. Another day it is those who long to do Christian radio who find themselves being shown the door.

We just have to learn to live with it.

Don't worry - I'm going back into hibernation mode. I check in once in a long while to see if the people who don't like Christian rock have either died off or left the business. Clearly, they have not. Praise and Worship, hymns, Southern gospel are considered Christian, Christian rock is not. Whatever (Ed Young Junior's definition of whatever)

People accuse me of not realizing radio is a business and has to make a profit - non-commercial has to get donations. I do realize that. Ratings = sponsors = revenue = salvations. I proved I could get the ratings with Christian rock - and along with them people coming to Christ. I didn't do it with a focus group - I did it by taking calls and listening to the audience. I find focus groups are fatally flawed because the selection of the group pre-determines the conclusions. You want to convince yourself praise and worship will make more money with soccer moms - go right ahead, you are paying the focus group, of course they will come to the conclusion you are doing everything right the way you are (wink wink). Whew, you were right all along, you "followed your instincts". Your focus group told you what you wanted to hear. But it is better (and cheaper) to have your ears to the phones and cater to what listeners want - the way it used to be in radio. The only reason I failed to completely take over and program that station is because of the hostile management environment, and the fact I had no sales team looking for underwriters. Personally I couldn't sell bottled water in the Sahara. But I sure had young people listening in droves - and that is the exact demographic that advertisers covet for top-40 secular. On a better station, with cooperative management supporting me with a sales team - we couldn't have missed. And young people's lives would have been changed. As it is, when the show ended, the phone lines went from jammed to silent as the Christian equivalent of Delilah went back on the air. Audio lukewarmness.

Guys, its been fun, nobody wants to hear what I've got to say - go on feeding the sheep on a milk diet. I'm gone for a while. Maybe I'll come back in a few months in the hope that people start caring about reaching young people and young professionals instead of church choir member soccer moms who are already saved. Ichabod.
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
Don't worry - I'm going back into hibernation mode. I check in once in a long while to see if the people who don't like Christian rock have either died off or left the business. Clearly, they have not. Praise and Worship, hymns, Southern gospel are considered Christian, Christian rock is not. Whatever (Ed Young Junior's definition of whatever)

People accuse me of not realizing radio is a business and has to make a profit - non-commercial has to get donations. I do realize that. Ratings = sponsors = revenue = salvations. I proved I could get the ratings with Christian rock - and along with them people coming to Christ. I didn't do it with a focus group - I did it by taking calls and listening to the audience. I find focus groups are fatally flawed because the selection of the group pre-determines the conclusions. You want to convince yourself praise and worship will make more money with soccer moms - go right ahead, you are paying the focus group, of course they will come to the conclusion you are doing everything right the way you are (wink wink). Whew, you were right all along, you "followed your instincts". Your focus group told you what you wanted to hear. But it is better (and cheaper) to have your ears to the phones and cater to what listeners want - the way it used to be in radio. The only reason I failed to completely take over and program that station is because of the hostile management environment, and the fact I had no sales team looking for underwriters. Personally I couldn't sell bottled water in the Sahara. But I sure had young people listening in droves - and that is the exact demographic that advertisers covet for top-40 secular. On a better station, with cooperative management supporting me with a sales team - we couldn't have missed. And young people's lives would have been changed. As it is, when the show ended, the phone lines went from jammed to silent as the Christian equivalent of Delilah went back on the air. Audio lukewarmness.

Guys, its been fun, nobody wants to hear what I've got to say - go on feeding the sheep on a milk diet. I'm gone for a while. Maybe I'll come back in a few months in the hope that people start caring about reaching young people and young professionals instead of church choir member soccer moms who are already saved. Ichabod.
My, we certainly are bitter. I've been coming to Radio-Info for probably close to 10 years. I've read Mr. Carter's statements. In all that time, nothing but hurt words and lashing out. I am not a K-Love, CCM or Christian Rock guy. In fact, I would love to see BBN on the air in my area..(Canton, Ohio) I can grudgingly admit that some contemporary music might reach some young people..In my way of thinking, the Soccer Moms and the mature Christians deserve their radio too, as long as it can be supported financially..
 
rbrucecarter5, let's try this again, and maybe you'll read what I wrote this time around.

I suggested you start own online Christian Rock Music station. No one else is the boss, just you and the Lord. That eliminates all that stuff you mentioned when you answered my first post. Your online station has an employee of 2, YOU as the worker, and Jesus Christ as the boss. That's the way to do what you feel lead to do. It may be more work, etc, but you can't make someone else have your vision. Only God can do that. Apparently they don't have the same vision as you. So if God really gave you that vision, he'll find a way for you to do it, maybe NOT as you'd envision, plan A didn't work, but God has plan Z.

What I'd suggest is to first, ask the Lord to help take the anger away from you. I totally understand it, but it may be keeping you from being able to hear God's quiet voice. Then take some time and just wait and seek Christ and HIS will. If God told you to do a Christian Music show that featured Gregorian Chant would you do it? Or say, THAT can't possibly be of God. So often we can get behind a good idea we like as being from God, but say it can't be of God when it's not our cup of tea. So empty yourself of all that. Be willing to do a music show of Gregorian Chant or old Wesley, Luther, and Bach hymns if that's what God wants.


Just remember God is to be our pilot, not the co-pilot. It may be that God wants you to do Christian Rock. If that's the case, then you should ask the Lord to guide you as to how to do this, online, on the radio, on a cable TV station, as a DJ at a Christian Rollerskating event, etc, etc. God may have you start out small, to trust you with something small first before giving you the bigger job. Rest and Trust in him. Christ has your answer. Be open to hear the entire answer.


rbrucecarter5, I've not seen anywhere in your writings here, your willingness to be submissive to God's plan. That is where you need to start. Our plans, no matter how good or noble are never as good as what God has planned. Reread what I've written above. Allow the Holy Spirit to help you. God does have a plan for you, but until you're willing to do it HIS way, you'll not get to first base.

Blessing to you brother. Be at peace, seek HIS face in this.
 
Just to help bring another Christian radio station to my hometown of Selma Alabama would be awesome indeed.

Hey I'll take whatever set up God wants me to have.

Even if the presentation is a Redeemer and/or K-Love type of broadcast, I'll settle for that.

Just to help bring a real revival and reformation to this dead community, will be blessing enough for me.

If the music does end up being of the pipe organ/hymns nature, I could settle for that and use that blessing to help win lost people to Jesus.

I may be into the louder music myself but God knows what's best for us all. 

He knows what this community has a real need for and whatever He allows me to establish, I'm going to celebrate the blessing and use it for the right reasons.

I'm going to enjoy using this new Apple Computer, I got on Monday and let Him work out the details on my return to radio.

While I wait for the door to open and Him to lead me to the programming He wants me to carry, I'm going to keep on doing the Writing, E-Mailing Bible Verses and Lawn Care thing.

Even if most the posters object to the presentation I end up bringing, I'm not going to get bitter or mad over it. 

I'll just thank God for His blessing and then use it to help proclaim His saving message to those needing to hear it for the first time.

R.D.P. <><
 
TR,

Don't bother. These people have the same "discussions," virtually word for word, over and over and over and over as if not a one has a memory that goes back more than four days. Same positions, arguments, and anecdotes every couple flips of the calendar. There's even one here who's been saying the same things since the days of forums on Compuserve, and, to the best of my knowledge, not once did his prescription for success ever show up in a book above an occasional .1 or .2.

You keep using BROADCAST to reach the tens and hundreds of thousands....enjoy your new role!
 
rbrucecarter has some good things in observation of how we are who we are (AC/CHR/INSPO/ROCK/ALT/etc..)......
"Skip"
 
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