It All Sounds The Same

[MikefromDelaware]

Thank you GRC. It is complicated.

 

[nitnitr]

Thank you GRC. It is complicated.

It is complicated, so that is why our station is licensed through a licensing agency as an Internet station under an umbrella license. If we ever get big enough, we'll go to direct licensing, which likely isn't all that far off, humbly speaking.

Podcasts are handled differently, and will cost more, as a per download instance, as another member posted.

SOG is a fine program though, and I love Larry Wayne (KLOVE talent), and more often than not, he hosts the show. Gator Gaynor hosts the rock shows. Gator is a former EMF employee, and now residing in New Mexico as a PD at a local station in Farmington.

As for the original topic, there is a lot out there that sounds the same. Many of the Indies have a different sound, one of which I love out of West Virginia, called Sons Of Thunder, a recent group I came upon. Their music is Christian Rock or CHR, and outside the mainstream AC sound, but they are solid with the sound, and also with the lyrics. They are always God honoring. Check them out if you ever have the time, or you can contact me if you need their info.

The issue with Indies, more often than not, is the production of the music. Small studios often are not up to par with what the major studios can produce, and the sound engineers, though often excellent, are limited to what they have to work with. I know this from my own experience. You can only do so much tweaking.

Personally, I hate the homogenous sound from mainstream AC Christian radio, but deal with it while programming LMTTRR. I get in more indies than most, and also more outside the "norm" as it pertains to AC Christian radio. Wish other stations would do the same. There are some real gems that don't get heard, and likely more than I will ever find. So much good music out there, besides Chris Tomlin, Casting Crowns and the like (not dissing them), but there is so much good Christian music many have never heard, and we need to expose for the glory of God!

 

[jhguthlac]

I, like many people, have grown so tied over the years of stations with a limited playlist. Smooth Jazz killed itself withsuch a policy. AC CCM can suffer the same fate, unfortunatly.

 

[WPHA]

I, like many people, have grown so tied over the years of stations with a limited playlist. Smooth Jazz killed itself with such a policy. AC CCM can suffer the same fate, unfortunately.

K-Love already drove my Wife and I away with the constant repetition. It is as though the station is deliberately programmed for people who seldom listen. We love their airstaff, they are excellent! We just got so TIRED of the SAME SONGS over and over, ad nauseam, for such extended amounts of time! I've not listened regularly to the station since October. Just the other day, I tuned in for about 15 minutes. It was as though I was still listening in October.

When you hear the exact SAME SONGS, every three hours like clockwork, that's just too much. Even my Mom, who ONLY listens while driving to/from local errands, has gotten tired of the repetition! She loves the music, but is sick of "the same songs all the time".

 

[Rick Rose 2.0]

This is often the case of people saying one thing and behaving another.

Tight playlisted, constant playing of the hits is what draws the most audience. I tried the variety of Salems XM Fish years ago and the wide playlist gave us many poor songs. I kind of gave up on the local fish because they are ac and i prefer hot ac/chr and i know they follow the tight playlist formula along with industry standard KLTY.

 

[xmusicmatt]

This is often the case of people saying one thing and behaving another.

Tight playlisted, constant playing of the hits is what draws the most audience. I tried the variety of Salems XM Fish years ago and the wide playlist gave us many poor songs. I kind of gave up on the local fish because they are ac and i prefer hot ac/chr and i know they follow the tight playlist formula along with industry standard KLTY.

Exactly -- the Majority wants only the hits and the hits repeated... I know there a few out there that feel different but the majority wins... I face the same thing with my internet station, I have a wider playlist and play some indie stuff (great quality but not Toby, Chris Tomlin every hour..) and honestly listenership suffers due to it.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Problem is, each of us have songs we really like, some we'll tolerate, and other that make us station surf. The fly in the ointment is that list is different for each listener with common songs on everyone's list. Those consultants tell the stations which songs those are and that's what they play. Those of us who prefer a wider variety make terrible demos as we just can't stay with one station all day long. After a while that station's music is repeating and we change stations, but apparently the majority will sit there and listen (makes you wonder are they really listening??) to the same songs over and over day in and day out. It is what it is.

 

[brian.marchand]

I agree. I do not understand how people can listen to the same few songs over and over year after year. I am thinking of Air1 and K-Love especially. In the past I could only listen to Air1 a couple times a year and hear the same songs. For over a year I only listen to classical music now.

 

[WPHA]

My point is that the repetition is TOO much, and for TOO LONG!

Yes, I like certain songs, and it's nice to hear them a few times a day for a while... but not for OVER A YEAR! That's what K-Love is doing with some songs... you hear them over and over again, every day, for a YEAR or so. ??? My Wife is VERY tolerant of hearing the same songs over and over... and even *SHE* got totally sick and tired of the constant repetition after a few months. :-\

The key to the wider playlist, is making sure you don't have any "poor" quality songs! Surely, playlists have been archived for YEARS and so have the songs... why not mix-into the "currents" library, oodles of "top 30" Christian songs from the past 20 years? All hits... but with a WHOLE LOT more variety!

I work for a station that is playing currents *AND* songs from years ago. Our listeners constantly tell us how much they love the variety! (The station only started playing currents more often in the past couple of years, and listeners have expressed their appreciation!) ;D

 

[nitnitr]

Air 1 and KLOVE do repeat a lot, but it works for them, or they wouldn't keep doing it. These folks have money for research, so know their target audience. I applied for a job there recently (live in the Rocklin, CA area, and didn't get the job, but came close-a shameless plug) but know KLOVE is targeting the female audience in the middle age range, so if you don't like that music, there are plenty of stations on the web that will satisfy your need for Christian music.

On another note, I am like XMusic, in that the station I program isn't a cookie cutter station, or in the mold of a station only catering to the music charts. LMTTRR is more of a hot AC/CHR station, which is what I like, and being on the Internet, can do some improvising with the format. It works for us, and so will stick with it. There are plenty of indies in rotation, plus a lot of the current charted music too.

Listeners are fickle too, and channel hop. It is nice to have loyal listeners, but that isn't always the case, so repeating the hits, so to speak, will allow the channel hoppers to hear the current music, even though that isn't what I like myself.

 

[anotherguyTN]

I think that one reason some listeners tolerate so much repetition on K-LOVE and Air 1 is that in many cases they're the only option available for CCM, or if there is a local option they're no better. If someone wants CCM only and doesn't listen to other music formats they're probably more willing to put up with the repetition.

I do still listen to K-LOVE occasionally, but I'll switch to Air 1 when it's avaialble since I don't get to hear it as often, and I fall back to my MP3 player for classic CCM (and also other music and comedy) a lot of the time.

 

[nitnitr]

I think that one reason some listeners tolerate so much repetition on K-LOVE and Air 1 is that in many cases they're the only option available for CCM, or if there is a local option they're no better. If someone wants CCM only and doesn't listen to other music formats they're probably more willing to put up with the repetition.

I do still listen to K-LOVE occasionally, but I'll switch to Air 1 when it's avaialble since I don't get to hear it as often, and I fall back to my MP3 player for classic CCM (and also other music and comedy) a lot of the time.

You need to listen to more Internet radio. There is so much available that will fit your taste.

I like KLOVE and Air1 at times, but I bet you can find a station on the web that will supply what you like, and bless you overall with the music and programming.

 

[xmusicmatt]

Agreed. My internet station does feature a lot that you hear on Air1/WayFM (and even some KLove stuff) but I also play a lot of "newer" artists that are tryin' to get their feet on the ground.

-- Matt
Positive Rock Radio - http://www.xmusiconline.com/

 

[mz41966]

In my case, CCM didn't become a part of me till 1989. Knew about Stryper already but didn't pay much attention to the style. It was in 1989 that Mylon LeFevere was introduced to me, by a former youth minister and the rest is history. After that introduction, then he also turned me on to Charlie Peacock and Petra. Haven't looked back.

For the past few years now, I've been learning more about this musical style and its history on my own. Hence my reason for wanting to buy the older songs, as I can find them. Yes I've been able to get many of the old songs, from various flea markets, Internet only classic music vendors and/or thrift stores. Because of this, my 4Him collection is just about completed. I'm still missing their two late 1990s CD's, a Greatest Hits CD from that same decade and their Visible CD from 2003. Just got my hands on their wonderful 2001 Walk On CD. Playing it, as I type this post. Man this CD is awesome.

It's not too hard to find the classic songs. You have to look in the right places, like I'm doing, if you want them really bad.

And yes my area wasn't exposed to CCM till Moody came along. When they did, then CCM had a small presence on the radio. The bigger presence has yet to happen. Trying to work on that, as I post this. Still waiting for the door to open on this.

And yes I still listen to WDJC from Birmingham, when I'm able to drag them in. A talk station from Dothan tends to bleed them out, on most days. Believe it or not, Dothan is too far away for me to get but they come in just like a local on many days here.

R.D.P. <><

P.S. And yes it looks like I'll soon be posting my 1000th post on here. I'm not going to gloat over it and/or get excited. Just glad to be here. As I continue to learn about radio broadcasting, I want to see what others are saying, so I can learn from them and not mess up, should my dream some day work out.

B.T.W. July will be an awesome time for me. Look forward to getting the new versions of Petra's This Means War and More Power to Ya CD's. This will be my first time ever owning a copy of those two CD's. Look forward to getting their Best of 80s CD in June, along with a new Greatest Hits CD from my buddy Mr. Steve Green, later on this month. Man just to listen to these classic singers and their timeless songs will be an awesome event for me, as I relive the excitement they brought to me, when I first heard them.


Well said. Petra was my first cassette tape back in 1984, "Not Of This World". They don't write 'em like that anymore!

 

[mz41966]

Explain the details of that one for me, please.

Are you saying that religious music is subject to a different set of copyright laws, and a different set of royalty schemes?

For *ANY* music played to ANYONE but oneself, fees must be PAID to the MAFIAA. Regardless of genre'. The *ONLY* exception is truly Public Domain, OR where the copyright holder (usually an independent writer, who hasn't signed all of their rights over to another) has given specific, written permission for it's use w/o compensation.

Willie, if that's true than New Creation Radio shouldn't be playing any CCM at all over the air. That station we're on is a non-profit station, we're probably breaking the law. Comment on this.

 

[mz41966]

I, like many people, have grown so tied over the years of stations with a limited playlist. Smooth Jazz killed itself with such a policy. AC CCM can suffer the same fate, unfortunately.

K-Love already drove my Wife and I away with the constant repetition. It is as though the station is deliberately programmed for people who seldom listen. We love their airstaff, they are excellent! We just got so TIRED of the SAME SONGS over and over, ad nauseam, for such extended amounts of time! I've not listened regularly to the station since October. Just the other day, I tuned in for about 15 minutes. It was as though I was still listening in October.

When you hear the exact SAME SONGS, every three hours like clockwork, that's just too much. Even my Mom, who ONLY listens while driving to/from local errands, has gotten tired of the repetition! She loves the music, but is sick of "the same songs all the time".

That's why I listen to "the Current" www.currentfm.com . They play the same songs, but a greater variety. And they also play unusual songs, which I have grown to love. For those who love alternative, pop and urban CCM, give them a try!

 

[rbrucecarter5]

In my case, CCM didn't become a part of me till 1989. Knew about Stryper already but didn't pay much attention to the style. It was in 1989 that Mylon LeFevere was introduced to me, by a former youth minister and the rest is history. After that introduction, then he also turned me on to Charlie Peacock and Petra. Haven't looked back.

For the past few years now, I've been learning more about this musical style and its history on my own. Hence my reason for wanting to buy the older songs, as I can find them. Yes I've been able to get many of the old songs, from various flea markets, Internet only classic music vendors and/or thrift stores. Because of this, my 4Him collection is just about completed. I'm still missing their two late 1990s CD's, a Greatest Hits CD from that same decade and their Visible CD from 2003. Just got my hands on their wonderful 2001 Walk On CD. Playing it, as I type this post. Man this CD is awesome.

It's not too hard to find the classic songs. You have to look in the right places, like I'm doing, if you want them really bad.

And yes my area wasn't exposed to CCM till Moody came along. When they did, then CCM had a small presence on the radio. The bigger presence has yet to happen. Trying to work on that, as I post this. Still waiting for the door to open on this.

And yes I still listen to WDJC from Birmingham, when I'm able to drag them in. A talk station from Dothan tends to bleed them out, on most days. Believe it or not, Dothan is too far away for me to get but they come in just like a local on many days here.

R.D.P. <><

P.S. And yes it looks like I'll soon be posting my 1000th post on here. I'm not going to gloat over it and/or get excited. Just glad to be here. As I continue to learn about radio broadcasting, I want to see what others are saying, so I can learn from them and not mess up, should my dream some day work out.

B.T.W. July will be an awesome time for me. Look forward to getting the new versions of Petra's This Means War and More Power to Ya CD's. This will be my first time ever owning a copy of those two CD's. Look forward to getting their Best of 80s CD in June, along with a new Greatest Hits CD from my buddy Mr. Steve Green, later on this month. Man just to listen to these classic singers and their timeless songs will be an awesome event for me, as I relive the excitement they brought to me, when I first heard them.


Well said. Petra was my first cassette tape back in 1984, "Not Of This World". They don't write 'em like that anymore!

Wow, you took me down memory lane on this one - great old CD's and albums. We won't hear their equals again on "CCM" stations! I was seeing some push back from churches in the early to mid 90's. Some chucklehead put up an anti-CCM web site called Dial the "Truth". 99% of the stuff on there I agree with, but they are totally wrong on CCM. You had Dave Wilkerson having a minor stroke at a Mylon concert - he promptly lashes out at them instead of getting treatment. And it just went on and on. The Nashville folks kept feeding us CD's full of what they wanted us to play - and it kept getting mellower and mellower. I remember the Sparrow CD coming in each month, the last few did not have even one song that fit our format so it was endless trips down to the one Christian bookstore in the area to buy our own CD's and keep real Christian rock on the air.

We did quite well - thousands of positive telephone calls to three negative - one of which called back and apologized, another of which hurled profanity at the 14 year old girl we had manning the phones. So that would leave one negative comment from a sincere Christian out of probably 6000 or 7000 calls. We sponsored concerts, had three world premieres, 2 or 3 artist interviews with one doing an acoustic set in the studio. We were the top rated show - secular and Christian - in our time slot. The top-40 DJ across town even played our show on his monitor while he did his show. The alternative station was calling us and writing us wanting suggestions for alternative music from Christian artists. We actually introduced them to Jars of Clay, so they were playing them 9 months before they went mainstream, and 2 months before Atlanta's 99x - which got the idea from the local alternative station and indirectly from us. Of course we got the idea from WCIE, so I can't take credit for the discovery. The local top-40 station tried to hire our air staff away from us - interviewing them and offering them big salaries. Thankfully our staff members refused, they wanted to do Christian music on air.

The whole time there was a creeping infiltration from the Hosanna Integrity praise and worship movement. We had callers requesting the stuff, we accomodated them for a while but we would lose our core audience if we played that stuff too much. But every single CCM station around the country, it seems, sold out to the movement about the mid to late 90's. The stations that didn't had a tough time going it alone. At the same time, Jimmy Swaggart, Bill Gothard and that ilk kept whining and whining - they seized on every CCM artist's mistakes like poor Amy getting divorced (from a man who struck her and made vulgar statements in Rolling Stone). Just more "proof" to the establishment that CCM was "evil".

Our own situation was tenuous at best - the station owner - a diabetic - wavered from enthusiastic support to total disdain for us. He strangled us by raising rates, putting us at undesirable time slots. Eventually we couldn't take it any more and just gave up. We couldn't fight a whole hoard of pharisees. They won, Hosanna Integrity won - the young people lost. CCM is BOR-RING now, Christian Delilah stuff. But it is safe for legalistic anti-CCM churches. And everybody pays for it, so it will go on. Those of us who bucked the trend - reviled when the history of CCM and Christian radio is discussed.

There is one thing that will reverse the trend - youtube. New Christian artists can distribute their material away from the tradition channels dominated now by praise and worhip mongers in Nashville. Internet Christian rock stations have popped up, and forward thinking Christian stations like WPOZ and KSBJ have HD-2 channels dedicated to what young people really want. Safe for the family, it seems, now includes all members of the family - including the previously overlooked teenagers. When the monopoly is broken, the whole praise and worship empire comes tumbling down. People now have choices.

Pioneers in Christian radio like me are gone, but there are new generations of programmers to take my place. I was honored to be there for a season - with countless praise reports, answered prayers, rededications, salvations, and even prevented suicides in my call logs. I doubt very many praise and worship "CCM" stations can equal that record - we give all the glory to the Lord Jesus Christ for the mighty way He used us. To Him goes all the glory.

BTW - Moody was a formidable adversary to CCM. They took down WCIE in Lakeland and went after WAY-FM in Ft. Meyers. They attacked us viciously on our first station, we had to leave after two weeks to find another station.

 

[R.D.P.]

Now for some possible good news.

I might get to make a real return to the radio business, very soon.

A local AM station might soon be up for sale. (WHBB 1490 AM)

Should this happen, I might entertain the thought of getting it.

Stay tuned and I'll keep you posted.

R.D.P. <><

P.S. I will even entertain the thought of getting a FM translator counterpart for fill in purposes and to help market my presentation better, should this work out and God allow it to happen.

 

[mz41966]

In my case, CCM didn't become a part of me till 1989. Knew about Stryper already but didn't pay much attention to the style. It was in 1989 that Mylon LeFevere was introduced to me, by a former youth minister and the rest is history. After that introduction, then he also turned me on to Charlie Peacock and Petra. Haven't looked back.

For the past few years now, I've been learning more about this musical style and its history on my own. Hence my reason for wanting to buy the older songs, as I can find them. Yes I've been able to get many of the old songs, from various flea markets, Internet only classic music vendors and/or thrift stores. Because of this, my 4Him collection is just about completed. I'm still missing their two late 1990s CD's, a Greatest Hits CD from that same decade and their Visible CD from 2003. Just got my hands on their wonderful 2001 Walk On CD. Playing it, as I type this post. Man this CD is awesome.

It's not too hard to find the classic songs. You have to look in the right places, like I'm doing, if you want them really bad.

And yes my area wasn't exposed to CCM till Moody came along. When they did, then CCM had a small presence on the radio. The bigger presence has yet to happen. Trying to work on that, as I post this. Still waiting for the door to open on this.

And yes I still listen to WDJC from Birmingham, when I'm able to drag them in. A talk station from Dothan tends to bleed them out, on most days. Believe it or not, Dothan is too far away for me to get but they come in just like a local on many days here.

R.D.P. <><

P.S. And yes it looks like I'll soon be posting my 1000th post on here. I'm not going to gloat over it and/or get excited. Just glad to be here. As I continue to learn about radio broadcasting, I want to see what others are saying, so I can learn from them and not mess up, should my dream some day work out.

B.T.W. July will be an awesome time for me. Look forward to getting the new versions of Petra's This Means War and More Power to Ya CD's. This will be my first time ever owning a copy of those two CD's. Look forward to getting their Best of 80s CD in June, along with a new Greatest Hits CD from my buddy Mr. Steve Green, later on this month. Man just to listen to these classic singers and their timeless songs will be an awesome event for me, as I relive the excitement they brought to me, when I first heard them.


Well said. Petra was my first cassette tape back in 1984, "Not Of This World". They don't write 'em like that anymore!

Wow, you took me down memory lane on this one - great old CD's and albums. We won't hear their equals again on "CCM" stations! I was seeing some push back from churches in the early to mid 90's. Some chucklehead put up an anti-CCM web site called Dial the "Truth". 99% of the stuff on there I agree with, but they are totally wrong on CCM. You had Dave Wilkerson having a minor stroke at a Mylon concert - he promptly lashes out at them instead of getting treatment. And it just went on and on. The Nashville folks kept feeding us CD's full of what they wanted us to play - and it kept getting mellower and mellower. I remember the Sparrow CD coming in each month, the last few did not have even one song that fit our format so it was endless trips down to the one Christian bookstore in the area to buy our own CD's and keep real Christian rock on the air.

We did quite well - thousands of positive telephone calls to three negative - one of which called back and apologized, another of which hurled profanity at the 14 year old girl we had manning the phones. So that would leave one negative comment from a sincere Christian out of probably 6000 or 7000 calls. We sponsored concerts, had three world premieres, 2 or 3 artist interviews with one doing an acoustic set in the studio. We were the top rated show - secular and Christian - in our time slot. The top-40 DJ across town even played our show on his monitor while he did his show. The alternative station was calling us and writing us wanting suggestions for alternative music from Christian artists. We actually introduced them to Jars of Clay, so they were playing them 9 months before they went mainstream, and 2 months before Atlanta's 99x - which got the idea from the local alternative station and indirectly from us. Of course we got the idea from WCIE, so I can't take credit for the discovery. The local top-40 station tried to hire our air staff away from us - interviewing them and offering them big salaries. Thankfully our staff members refused, they wanted to do Christian music on air.

The whole time there was a creeping infiltration from the Hosanna Integrity praise and worship movement. We had callers requesting the stuff, we accomodated them for a while but we would lose our core audience if we played that stuff too much. But every single CCM station around the country, it seems, sold out to the movement about the mid to late 90's. The stations that didn't had a tough time going it alone. At the same time, Jimmy Swaggart, Bill Gothard and that ilk kept whining and whining - they seized on every CCM artist's mistakes like poor Amy getting divorced (from a man who struck her and made vulgar statements in Rolling Stone). Just more "proof" to the establishment that CCM was "evil".

Our own situation was tenuous at best - the station owner - a diabetic - wavered from enthusiastic support to total disdain for us. He strangled us by raising rates, putting us at undesirable time slots. Eventually we couldn't take it any more and just gave up. We couldn't fight a whole hoard of pharisees. They won, Hosanna Integrity won - the young people lost. CCM is BOR-RING now, Christian Delilah stuff. But it is safe for legalistic anti-CCM churches. And everybody pays for it, so it will go on. Those of us who bucked the trend - reviled when the history of CCM and Christian radio is discussed.

There is one thing that will reverse the trend - youtube. New Christian artists can distribute their material away from the tradition channels dominated now by praise and worhip mongers in Nashville. Internet Christian rock stations have popped up, and forward thinking Christian stations like WPOZ and KSBJ have HD-2 channels dedicated to what young people really want. Safe for the family, it seems, now includes all members of the family - including the previously overlooked teenagers. When the monopoly is broken, the whole praise and worship empire comes tumbling down. People now have choices.

Pioneers in Christian radio like me are gone, but there are new generations of programmers to take my place. I was honored to be there for a season - with countless praise reports, answered prayers, rededications, salvations, and even prevented suicides in my call logs. I doubt very many praise and worship "CCM" stations can equal that record - we give all the glory to the Lord Jesus Christ for the mighty way He used us. To Him goes all the glory.

BTW - Moody was a formidable adversary to CCM. They took down WCIE in Lakeland and went after WAY-FM in Ft. Meyers. They attacked us viciously on our first station, we had to leave after two weeks to find another station.

Love what you said here. Try WJLZ in VA Beach. The owner is like you, she doesn't like "boring" CCM and there's many upbeat songs played on that station. Stuff the "KLOVE"'s would never touch. On my show which is not related at all to that station, we play "edgy" Christian rock.

Keep up the good work!

 

[R.D.P.]

Forget about that AM station.

May end up fishing for a FM broadcast after all.

Me and the owner of WVRV from Montgomery might soon get something going here.

We're in talks now and it looks like he's the one that might can help get my foot into the door.

Stay tuned and I'll keep you posted.

R.D.P. <><