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It *IS* the signal, not the format

I make a point of not saying anything when one of my predictions proves wrong. ;)

But with WTDA I said that nothing could do better than Ted on that signal, in the current competitive environment, and it appears I was right.  Based on the new trend out today, where WTDA barely makes it to a single digit, maybe they'd be better off bringing Ted home.  Couldn't do any worse.  Of course, I don't know how revenue compares.
 
I'd be happy if they moved WMNI (or at least it's format) over to WTDA. Can't hear WMNI unless I'm in my car, and if it's Sundown, forget it. Talk Radio (in my opinion) shouldn't be sucking up the Hi-Fi spectrum of FM. Oh, and congrats on your prediction. ;)
 
Just saw today's numbers, and wow! Sure, WTDA is crashing in spite of the vaunted Glenn Beck, but the real nosedive gets taken by WODB as it graphically demonstrates "where all the good songs have gone". Central Ohio's "Big Hits" Station takes a big hit of its own. At least 'YTS is still holding down last place, so the world hasn't turned completely upside down.
Can't wait for the Summer book. Tim Feran, who cares who's up there at the top? The real news, the real tragedies, the real human interest stories all lie down there at the other end of the spectrum, so write 'em up. Nu Roo, Old Riley, I'm going to get you off of your respective Ted and Adult Standards joneses and into my camp. If the report on October 19 isn't any better for these three outfits, and if none of their people have contacted me by that date, then I'll -- well, I won't spill my guts about ALL of the details of "Yesterday's Top Secrets"/"Rewind Rumble"/whatever you want to call the wonderful thing, but I'll definitely let a few more of its cats out of the bag. Forget all of the tweaking that some on this board have recently suggested, because Central Ohio doesn't need more of the same. It needs Revolutionary Radio, it needs oldies that aren't old, because they haven't been played to death, it needs classic rock that's in a class by itself, and it needs alternative music that was simply an alternative to all of the disco that surrounded it when it first came out. It needs not the best-known music of the '60s, '70s, and '80s, but rather some of the best.
 
Jakej,

Do you have an example of where this format that you are talking about is making it? AM, FM, Internet? If so, WTDA or WODB may be interested, if you have the numbers to back it up. I've often called up stations asking them to play a song that should technically be part of their format, but because it wasn't a hit or didn't test well, they wouldn't play it or didn't even have it in their library (I've even thought about taking the song to them in that case). I know Internet Radio seems to be more open to wider variety, but can you convince AM/FM to try that format? Even if you started up an Internet Radio Station with this format and then showed them how it grew in listeners, it might wet there appetite. Actually, if the subject title of this post has any truth in it, then you might be better off going to the Internet with the format, because many have complained that in the case of WODB and WTDA, "It *IS* the signal, not the format".
 
Ths signal and format go hand in hand. My experience has been that if you have a small signal (like many do in central Ohio) then you need to be more diverse in choosing your formatic direction. That way listeners will seek you out for what you are broadcasting and will put up with the lack of coverage to be entertained by what's coming out the end of the tower where ever it is. This area is broadcasting to many mainstream or simply boring formats on most of the smaller stations to get them out of the second tier of the ratings and move them into the top ten where they can actually be profitable and enjoyable. Then that brings us back to the operators who have to start seeing that they not only have to think out of the box but they need to take steps to start coloring outside the lines to make this type of station work and being close to the subject I don't know if it can be done in this town at this time. It will happen though because if you see that big light at the end of the tunnel, it's called "CHANGE", and it will make itself known sooner than later in an industry that's no longer dancing with what got it here in the first place and that would be creativity, inovation and the ability to take a risk to create great entertainment.
 
I think Bill Harmonic is right on the mark. Let's take WTDA for example. In terms of metro coverage they have two major problems; First, the tower they are using (WOSU) is too far north of the metro for them to ever get any real signal penetration over the entire metro area. Second, their antenna is too low on the tower to provide the required signal. This brings me to my main point....they are not a metro station, they are licensed to the city of Westerville. NABCO needs to stop pretending that they have a Columbus station on 103.9. I'm sure they did all of the engineering studies when they did their antenna "upgrade" and they have probably done everything possible to maximize their signal over the metro area but they are totally hemmed in by co-channel and adjacent channel stations and are unable to move further south. It's time for them to try something novel, try being a Westerville station and concentrate on selling airtime in northern Franklin and southern Delaware counties. There are many potential advertisers in this area. Old timers will remember that Bill Bates didn't have much trouble finding advertisers for the original WBBY in the Westerville/North Columbus area. This same concept might also be helpful to all of the other rimshot "wannabees" that encircle the metro area. You're NOT a 50KW metro grade signal. Either find a niche format that people will go to an effort to receive or else go back to your roots and try serving your city of license for a change.
 
I got caught up in the emotion of the moment last night with my post, so in light of this topic's heading I'd like to point out something that I didn't think to include in what I typed then.

In the Spring of 2006, WODB was at 2.2 in the 12+ chart, and although you have to go back a little farther to get a comparable number for WTDA/WEGE, I'm pretty sure something like a 2.2 is there. Nu, you're the expert on this; wasn't there at least a 1.8 in a book sometime around the transition of bird to human, or was that just in one of the trends? Anyways, my point is this -- is there any signal-related reason why these two stations can't at least get back "up" to where they were in the not-so-distant past? Are their signals now only half as strong as they were 1-3 years ago?

And another thing, and perhaps more importantly:
A) Both stations stream on the Web
B) Listeners who live ANYWHERE in Central Ohio can hear them at home or at work in this manner and log that in their Arbitron diaries
C) And so this is another reason why the ratings easily could and would be much better if either one of them had a format that worked

Mr. Riley, I don't have an example of past success for my format because to the best of my knowledge, it's never been tried anywhere. You may be thinking, "Oh, come on, EVERYTHING'S been tried somewhere," but if and when those cats come out of the bag after October 19, you'll see how truly unique and novel it is. And I don't think that now would be a good time to start an Internet station, not with the threat of thousands of dollars of royalty payments each year looming over the heads of the operators of those ventures. Besides, I don't want to preach to the converted, which to me is what the Internet radio business is largely all about. I want the music to be able to entertain and educate and surprise folks and their kids on AM or FM, the same way that I grew up listening to, learning about, and loving it. Things really can be FUN again, just like they were back then, I swear!

Bill, thanks for your support, or at least for what I interpret as your support. I think you make a LOT of sense with what you have written. You, too, Phat, although I think that the first part of your last sentence is a lot better suggestion than its second! To both of you, and to everyone else, please hold off on your final judgment of Revolutionary Radio until more details emerge, which will happen shortly after the 19th unless Hal or Bill or John or someone at their stations' corporate levels contacts me before then. Yeah, yeah, yeah, everyone in the industry thinks it's only the tried and true ways that work the best, and so they all go with nothing but them. But only one station can be #1, and only ten can be in the top ten, and so where does that leave everyone else? Fighting for the crumbs, fighting for the same crumbs month after month after month and quarter after quarter after quarter, until and unless one of them realizes that maybe it shouldn't be playing by everyone else's rules of the game -- and that maybe instead it should try creating its own rules, and playing by them.
 
More power to you Jake. God knows there are a number of stations around here who could certainly use a new, novel format. Maybe one or more of them who are currently in the ratings dumpster will give your format proposal some serious consideration. They certainly appear to have nothing to lose and potentially a lot to gain if the format works.
 
Roo, I have to disagree with you to a point and side with Bill on this one.

WTDA is going for the exact same listeners as WTVN. As the programming fiasco known as WYTS indicates, there is not enough listeners to split up the conservative talk listeners who make up 10 percent of the audience according to the latest Arbitrends.

The numbers also indicate how fickle Glenn Beck's fans really are. Meanwhile, the progressive talk fans like yours truly have gone to the web and podcast subscriptions to hear our favorite talkers.

Frankly, I have no clue why North American Broadcasting would be throwing away money on Clear Channel properties such as Beck and Fox Sports if they are not generating the numbers.

Having said that...I do not advocate WTDA becoming an affiliate of Air America. Nor do I advocate that it go strictly progressive talk.

However, I do believe NABCO should seriously look into counterprogramming...and I mean real seriously.

Three rules of thumb here:

1. Only keep conservatives who are funny, or at least say nothing offensive.
2. Aside from Mark the Shark, leave the sports talk to 1460 The Fan.
3. Don't give Clear Channel any more money.

Here is what I would propose for WTDA as a counterprogramming stategy:

Midnight to 5 a.m.--Joey Reynolds, syndicated by WOR. Probably the closest thing to Larry King currently on the radio, and he's known for niceness, which is rare on talk radio nowadays. Very celebrity focused. And live.
5 to 6 a.m.--Bob and Tom's last hour from their previous broadcast.
6 to 9 a.m.--Bob and Tom live.
9 a.m. to noon--Miller time. Stephanie Miller, syndicated by Jones, proved herself in Columbus by being WTPG's biggest listener draw. She and Al Franken had the highest spot prices on the station. And she still has Columbus listeners who regularly call into her show even though it's been off the air here since January. Of course, you could put Westwood One's Dennis Miller there, but apparently he hasn't proven himself the same way Steph did with WTPG.
Noon to 3 p.m.--The Anti-Rush: Jones Radio's Ed Schultz live. Perfect counterprogramming to WTVN. Big Eddie knows how to draw in listeners from the conservative side who are becoming disenchanted with Rush.
3 to 6 p.m.--Shark on Sports.
6 to 9 p.m.--Miller time: Dennis or Stephanie. If the station goes with Dennis in the morning, Steph would go against Hannity on WTVN between 7 and 9. The results should prove interesting.
9 p.m. to midnight--Nova M's Mike Malloy live. Counterpunch to WTVN's Sean Hannity and Mark Levin.

End result:

9 hours progressive talk (6 serious, 3 comic)
3 hours conservative talk (all comic)
10 hours comedy (4 adult-themed, 6 political)
5 hours celebrity talk
3 hours sports talk

20 hours of live talk

0 hours of talk syndicated by Clear Channel/Premiere Radio Networks
(Stephanie may be broadcasting from a Clear Channel station in Los Angeles, but she is syndicated by Jones)

0 hours of Air America

The only person who won't be happy with this lineup will be Glenn Beck, but the only people he can blame are the listeners who didn't make the jump.

And let's face it...how many conservatives listened to 103.9 under its previous formats?
 
Sean, I do agree that WTDA's trends could be somewhat related to within-format factors.  But considering how the ratings patterns for Talk 103.9 are looking so similar to what we saw for Ted, I'd still wager the signal is the main driver of Nabco's inability to sustain any traction on that frequency. 

Jakej, I'm still out of town and so can't peruse the old ratings.  And I'm really not sure what your bird-to-live statement refers to (maybe I'm zoning on something obvious).  But I think the highest I ever recall WEGE/WTDA getting is about a 2, i.e., roughly a half-point above what seems to be their current upper threshold.

Maybe the reason some of the outlying class A's now seem to be stuck with a lower cap than in the past is that their audiences have been susceptible to notable gains over the past couple years by stations like COL-FM, BNS-AM, and perhaps even CVO or (less likely) XMG or pre-Christian WHKC.  And as poor as 93.1's format and performance are for a signal that good, it's still got 3 shares that might have eaten into some of the outlying Class A's a bit.  For the latter group, ceding even a few tenths of a point of real shares (vs. the inevitable wobble) would be a big deal.

Pbf1, you mention how decently Hot 105 performed transmitting from Marysville.  I believe there were at least somewhat fewer signals targeting Columbus at the time.  But more importantly, they were playing nationally-popular rhythmic CHR that WNCI staunchly ignored at the time  -- and deftly presenting it.  In fact, I've said before that I still think the best bet for a station like WTDA to get a good 12+ bump would be to go with a youth "reaction" format, as Hot 105 did back then.  That said, this might not produce saleable demos; and besides, I don't see the same kind of hole for a reaction format as existed in the days of Hot 105.  Even if such a hole existed, radio is no longer as big a part of the average 12-24 year old's life as it was when Hot 105 was around.
 
Nu_Roo_2 said:
Pbf1, you mention how decently Hot 105 performed transmitting from Marysville. I believe there were at least somewhat fewer signals targeting Columbus at the time. But more importantly, they were playing nationally-popular rhythmic CHR that WNCI staunchly ignored at the time -- and deftly presenting it. In fact, I've said before that I still think the best bet for a station like WTDA to get a good 12+ bump would be to go with a youth "reaction" format, as Hot 105 did back then. That said, this might not produce saleable demos; and besides, I don't see the same kind of hole for a reaction format as existed in the days of Hot 105. Even if such a hole existed, radio is no longer as big a part of the average 12-24 year old's life as it was when Hot 105 was around.


I know, and you're right. I merely thought of it as an example of an even WORSE signal producing even BETTER results.

It was also helped by having a lot of stellar talent. Rob Morris went on to program KDWB. Scott James/Harry Legg went on to KIIS, WKTU, et al, and is way too busy doing freelance voice work to worry about a radio station gig now. And the list goes on...Blake Thunder, Geronimo/Mark Bingamon, et al.
 
Sean Gilbow said:
1. Only keep conservatives who are funny, or at least say nothing offensive.

That's why you didn't make it in radio. More bland, milquetoast radio is exactly what Columbus DOESN'T NEED.
 
Hi, Roo -- just wanted to clarify that I didn't write "bird-to-live", I wrote "bird to human", as in the magical transformation that the station made in becoming a Ted after being an eagle. Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for your information.

Hey Sean, did you go to Laura Ingraham's book signing yesterday up at Sam's Club on Sawmill? I was going to go just to see how many showed up, but then I thought nah, if I'm the only one there then I'll probably get stuck having to buy the thing.
 
I agree with Sean, WTDA need to go to with counter programming. First they need to get their stick in order. According to radio-locator.com they submit an application to build a new one. One additional show for the weekend is Seder on Sundays. I can only pick up WTDA with my C Crane desktop radio when I adjust my RF/FM gain knob. Or use my pocket triband radio (FM/SW/MW) with a amp. FM/SW external antenna. No problem in Westerville or Reynoldsburg in picking up WTDA. Heck in Reynoldsburg I can pick up WTDA on my Nokia 6030 cell phone FM tuner.
 
Take a look at what happened with Country in the market through the years. WHOK had a good (but not great) signal and dominated the market for a long time. Then when 98.9 flipped to Country with a stronger signal inside I 270, they managed to knock them off. Of course, when WCOL entered the picture with their Class B signal, they walked away with it easily. WCOL never had the heritage or identity for Country, but they had the signal that neither 95.5 nor 98.9 had.

By the way, 98.9 has occupied three different positions on the WBNS tower, starting around the 350 foot level, then moving to the master antenna near the top, then dropping back lower, but not as low as in the beginning. Even though they are in the middle of the market, their power just doesn't compete with the Class B signals and never will.

WCOL proved the power point earlier on when they switched to Oldies. There had been lame signal Class A Oldies stations on 103.1 and 103.5, but WCOL blew them away easily. It was no problem for Dick Bartley to jump on board after being on 103.5. He sure made the rounds. It is hard to keep track of where he has been in this market. If I remember correctly, he was on WSNY, then WXMX, then 103.5 Lancaster, then WCOL, then WBNS-FM, and now WODB. I might have even missed a couple along the way.

In real estate, the old saying is "location, location, location." In radio, it should be "signal, signal, signal." Format is important, but most people will only tolerate a weak signal for so long before giving up.
 
CatFM said:
In real estate, the old saying is "location, location, location."  In radio, it should be "signal, signal, signal."  Format is important, but most people will only tolerate a weak signal for so long before giving up.

So true.  I can't count the times I've had people tell me something like, "that's a good station but I had to stop listening because there was too much static."
 
boyphenom said:
Sean Gilbow said:
1. Only keep conservatives who are funny, or at least say nothing offensive.

That's why you didn't make it in radio. More bland, milquetoast radio is exactly what Columbus DOESN'T NEED.

You have no clue, phenom, what I did in radio. So until you show you have some credibility on here, I suggest you refrain from such commentary. At least I was in this business, and I don't recall any post saying you ever were.
 
tophour said:
Sean Gilbow said:
0 hours of talk syndicated by Clear Channel/Premiere Radio Networks

Well, yeah...as long as you don't count that four hour chunk of Premiere product in morning drive.

Bob and Tom's website doesn't mention affiliation with Premiere.

http://www.bobandtom.com/gen3/index.htm

But I did confirm you are correct that Premiere does indeed syndicate that show.

Interesting that Bob and Tom doesn't mention their syndicator on their own website. But I stand corrected nonetheless.
 
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