It was 20 years ago tonight...

[little1]

Actually 22...
A buddy of mine came across an article from the DMNews from 1985...He got a kick out of it, and passed the info along to me...So I thought I'd share it here for cussing and discussing.

It's a story (written because the NAB was in town) which includes a little chart with the top 10 stations with share, rate (1 60 in AMD), revenues(projected for the year) and format...
Here you go...
#1 KVIL 9.3, $600-700, 10.7mil, "top 10"
#2 KKDA-F 7.4, 300-500, 8.3, top 10
#3 WBAP 7.4 280-325, 7.4, country
#4 KRLD 6.8 450, 8mil, news
#5 KEGL 5.8 420, 7.2, top 10
#6 KMEZ 5.3 185-325, 5.7, EZ Listening
#7 KPLX 5.3 380-400, 4.9, country
#8 KTXQ 5.2 200, 4.8, rock
#9 KSCS 4.7 160-200, 5.7, country
#10 KZEW 4.3 190-350, rock

 

[little1]

Couple of things that jumped out to me from then to now...

#1 Where were the hispanics back then? Compare that list to any of the recent books...

#2- Can you imagine having a lead of almost 2 full points in this day and age?

#3- Look at the overall domination. The top 10 stations are responsible for over 60% of the available shares...

 

[little1]

And one other quick thing- for those that complain about a lack of variety in the market, glance through the formats. 3 "top 10" (DMN's description, BTW), 3 country, 1 news, 1 EZ, and 2 rock...

Not exactly a smorgabsorg (sp?) there is it? No jazz (smooth or otherwise), no alternative, no triple A, no religious a la KLTY,

Are these the good old days, pre consolidation that some of you guys want to return to?

 

[BoneHead]

Are these the good old days, pre consolidation that some of you guys want to return to?

I'm going to proceed on the assumption this is a legitimate question and not just an attempt to stir up crap.

First, there's a little more variety on that list than it appears. KVIL was AC, while K104 was R&B. Their playlists hardly overlapped at all. The Eagle was pretty much a pure Top 40 station.

My recollection is that 'BAP was already moving away from music during drive time in 1985, but I could be missing that by a few years.

The Zoo and Q102 were hardly two peas in a pod. George Gimarc was spinning alt long before 1985.

Second, just because a format didn't make the top 10 does not mean the format didn't exist. KNTU played a ton of jazz, and while The Oasis was still a couple of years away KZPS played a lot of what would come to be known as smooth jazz nights and weekends.

You could definitely hear Amy Grant on DFW radio in 1985. I'm thinking KLTY *was* around at the time, but it's possible that particular station didn't launch until the late 80's.

Third, the ten stations on that list were good for reasons that have nothing to do with format, per se. They were all live and local all day every day, even from midnight-to-6. Their playlists weren't constricted and consulted to death. KRLD was an actual by god 24-by-7 news station, not a half-assed news/mostly talk thing. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the picture.

 

[Robert Bass]

You could definitely hear Amy Grant on DFW radio in 1985. I'm thinking KLTY *was* around at the time, but it's possible that particular station didn't launch until the late 80's.

Yeah she was played on those types of formats around then. I've got a newspaper clipping about one of those stations, that shows a picture of a station staff memeber standing in a production room near a cardboard cutout picture of Amy. I'm thinking mid to late 80's. I'll have to dig that one up sometime.

R

 

[little1]

I agree that there were a whole lot of other stations that existed. But what another 20-30 stations dividing up the 40% of the audience? That tells me that why you definitely had these 'haves' you also had a lot of have nots.

And while I'll pass on commenting on KKDA, since i didn't listen back then, I'd say the biggest difference between the Eagle and KVIl wasn't the music per so, but when they played the music. KEGL would play "Shout" by tears for fears on it's way up teh charts, while KVIL would play it on the way down, once it was a known commidity, familiar to some of teh audience, etc...

But those are tangents. compare that list to the top ten today. Kiss is around a 5, teh next 2 stations are in the mid 4's, and then there's probably 15 stations in the 2.5-4.0 range.

There's a number of people who float the theories out there that there's 'no head to head competition" anymore...Sure looks like there's a heck of a lot more competition OVERALL now then back then.

10 stations...SIXTY percent of the market.

But let's go with your theory. Gimarc was spinning some alternative at the Zoo (since this was a year or 2 before the Edge's first tower showed up), and let's say that Q102 was your typical AOR station.

Is that really any different than having the Edge and Bone now? Just now those are viewed as 2 completely different formats,(Active or Alt rock and rock/classic rock) even though their fighting for some of the same audience...

I'd venture to say there's the same amount of competition as before, it's just not as obviously head to head. Where KVIL used to get a 9, now they get 3 and change, Mix gets a 2+, KLTY gets a 3+, etc...There's still 8-9 shares there that lean EXTREMELY housewifey, but now it's spread out over 3 stations instead of 2...

KRLD had almost a 7. I wonder what we'd get if we added up KRLD, KLIF, KSKY, and even KTCK and ESPN...
Yeah, KRLD isn't 'all news' anymore. But then again, back in '85 did we have live and local TV shows doing news in morning drive? Was CNN, FNC, MSNBC, etc the forces that they are today? I'd venture to say that the reason all news has faded away is this invention we're using right here. A couple of clicks and I can get the news I want, without having to wait past the traffic and weather together on the 8's...

 

[bassassassin]

Fascinating resurrection, little one. Your recollection was 3 years after I left large D for the first time (KZEW) and reflected the trending for a while to come. B4 I departed, that station killed under Tom Owens' direction and when he left in '84, Q's domination in rock started as Andy Lockridge systematically killed KZEW before going to work for KTXQ. Along with KZEW's consultant, Jeff Pollack. Hmmm. Guess nothing was going on there, but then again, I think Bush is a great president (just kidding). As I recall (keep in mind I'm older than dirt), Eagle went serious rock shortly thereafter and I've no idea how they did numbers-wise, but sounded hotter than all get out for years to come, in no small part due to Russ & Cindy's shows. Howard didn't hurt when he came, but that's a whole other story.

With advances in technology and the legitimization of the illegal immigration, things are naturally going to change, but let's look at what's going on nationally versus there in Dallas. The shift away from rock is undeniable, the acceptance of hispanic is inevitable, and given those factors and a few other effects on the industry, 20 years now is like 2 for the future. We'd all be best served being able to bob & weave to accommodate the changes coming and work with the tools (people and tech) that we're handed.

I'll be dead by 2030 by the statistics, but if there is an afterlife, I'll be watching what happens with the same fascination most morons on 635 gaze at an accident. Blood will be spilled and things are changing faster than the speed of light. Fact is, some things will never change...most of all that those of us fortunate enough to work this industry are the few...the happy few...the band of brothers. I love this business!

 

[MikeShannon914]

You first said, "20 years ago tonight"...I was thinking--Jessica falls into the well? The stock market crumbles? Pamela Ewing comes out of her coma after she crashes into an 18-wheeler at the end of last season? Manuel Noriega gets busted? Ollie North's trial ends? I start writing newscasts at KNTU? Reagan jokes that we'll begin bombing Russia in 10 minutes? I'm working late at Western Auto again? Some rumor begins floating around that Kiss-FM is going to be replaced by something called "Smooth Jazz"? I'm ordering me a Z-Rock dog tag?

Nah, in reality, I had class at NTSU from 10-noon that Monday, I had two letters to write (what the hell is "e-mail"?), I called an attorney in Gainesville who was handling a land sale for me, and I was meeting up that evening with an ex-pal who owed me $2,000. (He still does.) It was a Monday. Hey, I keep great notes.

Now if you're talking 9/7/1985, this was the evening that the old dance show, "Sump'n Else," had its 20th anniversary reunion at The Galleria. Ron Chapman hosted, of course; Channel 8 carried a couple of hours of it, and KVIL simulcasted the whole thing.

Thanks for the suggested trip down Memory Lane.

 

[bassassassin]

I had to laff...Z-Rock dog tags!!! I forget the burg the station was licensed to, but the microwave was shot under an overpass from north Dallas to get to the transmitter! Tres true...I worked there. And still have my dog tag!

 

[MikeShannon914]

It was licensed to GAAAAEEEEEEENNNNNSSSSSS-ville...as Z-Rock would groan it in their ID's. "KZRK--Gainesville-Dallas-Fort Worth." I was a board op there at the KDNT/KZRK studios on Teasley Lane in Denton for a short time in 1988. All it entailed was watching the huge Satellite Music Network carousels do their thing, and if dead air ever happened, there was some generic rock album sitting across the room, already on the turntable, ready to spin if needed.

The signal was PATHETIC. 94.5 still suffers today!!

 

[VERITAS DE VOCE]

You could definitely hear Amy Grant on DFW radio in 1985. I'm thinking KLTY *was* around at the time, but it's possible that particular station didn't launch until the late 80's.

Yeah she was played on those types of formats around then. I've got a newspaper clipping about one of those stations, that shows a picture of a station staff memeber standing in a production room near a cardboard cutout picture of Amy. I'm thinking mid to late 80's. I'll have to dig that one up sometime.

R

Ah, you found my headshot I see.

 

[VERITAS DE VOCE]

...and draped around my neck will be a dazzling Z-Rock (he says in that overlord growling voice remembered on the bumpers) tag. Good times. 8)

 

[keyboards]

I was a Program Director in Dallas briefly around late 1987 and 1988. A couple of things...... Somebody asked where the Spanish stations were. As memory serves me, at the time there was no real full signal strength Spanish outlets in the market. Maybe some low powered AM's and a rimshot or 2 Spanish FM's.

KVIL may have played the songs on the way down but Ron Chapman's crew had personality plus on the station that was all about Dallas.

Interesting how KEGL had success at the time doing a rock- based Top 40 sound while others were just then starting to dance their butts off. Country was still older sounding and had not developed into the "younger sound" so it was just things like KPLX saying "I FLEX MY PLEX....KPLX...or something like that! Yeah and I think that KLTY was starting to be a huge factor in the late 80's too.

 

[jdean]

If memory serves, the Christian music station in 1987 was (briefly) KOJO.

Back in the early to mid 80's, KVIL's annual revenues were double the number given.

Yes...double that. One year I believe they hit somewhere in the neighborhood of $24 milllion.

But...there were also four local newspapers, twenty-five different major department stores, several major airlines competing for passengers at DFW, and hundreds of locally-owned auto dealerships - all with money to burn. And there were something like 30 stations with signals in DFW.

Back then.

I haven't counted lately, but I'm pretty sure there are now around 50+ stations covering or penetrating this market. There are now just two major papers. There's Walmart. There's American and Southwest. Braniff is gone...and for all intent, so are Delta and the rest. And chances are the family dealership you used to know is now owned by AutoNation. In order to get any of them to spend what marketing money they might have with you, you might very well be speaking with the same buyer for all of them. And not only are they not interested in promoting their product by giving you a shopping spree, trip or car to give away...they have other options for getting their word out, including the client's own advertising platform on the internet.

Deregulation, consultants, focus-groups, music testing, corporate targets, and budget cuts aren't the only things that changed radio. And the only thing that's certain is that 2027 will look just as different from today as today does from 1987.

And by the way - one major reason that KVIL succeded as it did is that it was NEVER all about Dallas. It was all about Ft. Worth, too - and every other town in North Texas. That philosophy works now as well as ever, and is even more important with huge growth in places such as Denton and Collin counties. I still cringe when I hear someone say "over in..." The broadcaster who says that is shooting themselves in the foot. A listener in Flower Mound doesn't consider herself "over in" anywhere.

 

[van hespen]

KOJO was the CCM station, Chuck Gratner was GM and Mark Johnson was PD. Mark Rodriquez owned it back then. In 1986 KOJO regained the calls KLTY. Jon Rivers came on about that time.

 

[txchipk]

Are these the good old days, pre consolidation that some of you guys want to return to?

I'm going to proceed on the assumption this is a legitimate question and not just an attempt to stir up crap.

First, there's a little more variety on that list than it appears. KVIL was AC, while K104 was R&B. Their playlists hardly overlapped at all. The Eagle was pretty much a pure Top 40 station.

KEGL was a fairly rock-leaning CHR. In 1985, KTKS 106.1 and KAFM 92.5 were the pure top 40s.

My recollection is that 'BAP was already moving away from music during drive time in 1985, but I could be missing that by a few years.

The Zoo and Q102 were hardly two peas in a pod. George Gimarc was spinning alt long before 1985.

Second, just because a format didn't make the top 10 does not mean the format didn't exist. KNTU played a ton of jazz, and while The Oasis was still a couple of years away KZPS played a lot of what would come to be known as smooth jazz nights and weekends.

You could definitely hear Amy Grant on DFW radio in 1985. I'm thinking KLTY *was* around at the time, but it's possible that particular station didn't launch until the late 80's.

The original KLTY 94.9 was on. KLTY flipped to top 40 KHYI "Y95" 9/1986. Contemporary Christian was off the commercial FM dial until the following summer when KOJO 94.1 picked up the format. The KLTY calls were in use in St Louis, so the KOJO calls stayed on 94.1 until the St Louis station changed calls and formats. 94.1 became KLTY 4/20/1989.

 

[gbsncmtr]

It's also interesting to note . . . with regards to all the discussions lately here concerning billboards, promotions, giveaways, etc. . . . that KLTY has just announced a contest where they will be giving away a new car during the next few weeks. I didn't catch all the details earlier today, but it involves calling in at the right time and then answering a question correctly in order to get a key which might "start your brand new car!"

 

[txchipk]

I was a Program Director in Dallas briefly around late 1987 and 1988. A couple of things...... Somebody asked where the Spanish stations were. As memory serves me, at the time there was no real full signal strength Spanish outlets in the market. Maybe some low powered AM's and a rimshot or 2 Spanish FM's.

Contrary to the hype of Univision when it bought KLTY 94.1 and turned it into regional Mexican KLNO in 2000 -- proclaiming KLNO as the first full FM signal to have a Spanish-language format, recall the frequency used to have Spanish-language formats back in the '80s. It used to be at 93.9 before moving to the present day 94.1 facility in the '80s. It was KESS, for most of that time. In the fall of 1986, it changed to KSSA-FM, essentially swapping calls with 1270. In March of '87, KSSA-FM changed calls to KOJO, but remained Mexican. Over the 4th of July weekend in '87, the format changed to contemporary Christian as "Kojo 94" with the Spanish-language format exiled to KSSA 1600 (the former talk KTNS Plano). That was also the same weekend country KDNT-FM 94.5 became Z-Rock KZRK.

So, there was full market Spanish-language programming for a number of years, ending in 1987. From then, it went to AMs and rimshots. AC KWPL 95.3 "WPL" McKinney flipped to KSSA-FM in 1988 as one of the early rimshots. That facility is the present day KRVA-FM 107.1 Campbell (east of Greenville...moved out of the market to make way for KZZA 106.7).

 

[txchipk]

KOJO was the CCM station, Chuck Gratner was GM and Mark Johnson was PD. Mark Rodriquez owned it back then. In 1986 KOJO regained the calls KLTY. Jon Rivers came on about that time.

No. KLTY was at 94.9 for most of 1986. Following a sale, it was changed to CHR KHYI "Y95" in September. The KLTY calls were snatched up by KKCI 106.5 Liberty MO/Kansas City when it became AC "K-Lite" (the FCC shows 10/2/1986 as the date the KC station took the KLTY calls). In July 1987, regional Mexican KOJO 94.1 changed to contemporary Christian as "Kojo 94" --- but it couldn't have the KLTY calls since the KC station had them. KLTY flipped to CHR KXXR 7/1988, freeing up the KLTY calls. However, KOJO didn't take them until 4/20/1989.

 

[txchipk]

Are these the good old days, pre consolidation that some of you guys want to return to?

I'm going to proceed on the assumption this is a legitimate question and not just an attempt to stir up crap.

First, there's a little more variety on that list than it appears. KVIL was AC, while K104 was R&B. Their playlists hardly overlapped at all. The Eagle was pretty much a pure Top 40 station.

KEGL was a fairly rock-leaning CHR. In 1985, KTKS 106.1 and KAFM 92.5 were the pure top 40s.

My recollection is that 'BAP was already moving away from music during drive time in 1985, but I could be missing that by a few years.

The Zoo and Q102 were hardly two peas in a pod. George Gimarc was spinning alt long before 1985.

Second, just because a format didn't make the top 10 does not mean the format didn't exist. KNTU played a ton of jazz, and while The Oasis was still a couple of years away KZPS played a lot of what would come to be known as smooth jazz nights and weekends.

You could definitely hear Amy Grant on DFW radio in 1985. I'm thinking KLTY *was* around at the time, but it's possible that particular station didn't launch until the late 80's.

The original KLTY 94.9 was on. KLTY flipped to top 40 KHYI "Y95" 9/1986. Contemporary Christian was off the commercial FM dial until the following summer when KOJO 94.1 picked up the format. The KLTY calls were in use in St Louis, so the KOJO calls stayed on 94.1 until the St Louis station changed calls and formats. 94.1 became KLTY 4/20/1989.

Correction...I had the wrong MO market on my mind...I should have said Kansas City rather than St Louis (each one of them has a station 106.5...; it was the KC 106.5 that has the KLTY calls starting in 1986).