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Ithaca Translator sells for HOW much?!!?

Check out the CDBS for the sale price of W254BF, the 35w translator on the WNYY towers south of Ithaca (and presumably questionable coverage over downtown Ithaca itself). Saga paid CC $45,000 to simulcast an HD3 channel on it. $45,000!!! Yeesh, and here I thought station prices were getting more reasonable... :eek:
 
I'm shocked for a different reason. The DOJ and the FCC looked into Saga's market concentration in Ithaca and failed to do anything about it (even though a couple of FCC commish seemed very negative toward it). Now, they are using translators to populate the market with what are essentially new stations/formats. I can't see how that is legal.
 
It's "legal" for two reasons. One, I believe that translators don't count against a station group's market cap. So, in theory, Saga could acquire more translators to simulcast HD programming until or unless the regulations are changed. The second reason this is going on is because nobody at the FCC seems to care, or, at least, not enough people at the FCC seem to care.

I'm just as outraged about this as the rest of you on here. For with the exceptions of WVBR and WFIZ, if you want to advertise on commercial radio in Ithaca, you WILL do business with Saga, or do without. And my guess is that's just how Saga wants it.
 
The average price for a translator in a city of 25k to 35k around the eastern US is $40k. The price they paid is near average. One translator in Austin, TX sold for over $200k. FLN in Bath paid over $100k for a translator over in Erie. Translator values went up 2 years ago when AM stations began being allowed to use FM translators.
 
Saga has positioned themselves to make the lions share of potential advertising revenue in the Ithaca area, hurray for them... However, enjoy it while you can because once you begin to abuse the translator loop hole that's when it draws attention, opposition get louder and then change comes! Ithaca is one of those places where people find a way to be heard...biting the hand that feeds ya...hmmmm, careful...

Experience tells me "the Vine" (the new format on the new translator-AAA) makes more business and entertainment sense in the Ithaca area (Finger Lakes) than "Lite Rock" (on their way down...a slow nose dive)...The smart move would be switch them, again, the "smart move". I'd even transfer all the talent over...they would fit better on "the Vine". But, hey I'm not in charge.
 
Actually, there was an attempt at a very eclectic AAA format on a powerful signal in Ithaca about 15 years ago. Some of you may recall the original "I 100" where you honestly didn't know what you were going to hear next, folk, blues, rock, and an assortment of specialty shows ranging from "local music" to smooth jazz and new age music. So, while I would love to see the format on the main channel of WYXL, I'd bet the powers that be over there don't feel it's THAT viable. Too bad, really. I liked the original WIII-FM. They swithced to classic rock when WQNY dumped that format in favor of country.
 
Saga has positioned themselves to make the lions share of potential advertising revenue in the Ithaca area, hurray for them... However, enjoy it while you can because once you begin to abuse the translator loop hole that's when it draws attention, opposition get louder and then change comes!

I've been talking to a few different people about this, and the vague consensus is that if there was going to be a massive "gold rush" to translators being used as "analog primaries" for HD channels and/or FM translators for AM stations...it would've happened by now. I think the concept, while distasteful to many and not very wise in the long run, is too limited to really make a huge dent. Even the biggest FM translator is still only 250 watts, and east of the Mississippi it's rarely anything but directional and even then it's often below 50 watts. These are pretty teeny-tiny signals. Too weak to penetrate buildings for at-work listening, and too small to work well for in-car listening.

But, you say, what about LPFM's? Well, same problem, really. That's why a lot of the non-religious and non-college LPFM's are struggling fiscally. Several have gone under entirely, most are skirting the edge on a daily basis.

Experience tells me "the Vine" (the new format on the new translator-AAA) makes more business and entertainment sense in the Ithaca area (Finger Lakes) than "Lite Rock" (on their way down...a slow nose dive).

Well, NPR's World Cafe is solidly Triple-A and it gets good listener response in Ithaca on our station (WEOS). We usually have underwriting spots during it...although a lot of it is trade for free tickets...which is a sign that it's got listener appeal.

It's "legal" for two reasons. One, I believe that translators don't count against a station group's market cap. So, in theory, Saga could acquire more translators to simulcast HD programming until or unless the regulations are changed. (snip) I'm just as outraged about this as the rest of you on here. For with the exceptions of WVBR and WFIZ, if you want to advertise on commercial radio in Ithaca, you WILL do business with Saga, or do without. And my guess is that's just how Saga wants it.

You are correct Jake: translators do not count towards a market cap. Also, Ithaca is part of the Syracuse market...so while Ithaca proper has relatively few non-translator signals, the overall Syracuse market has lots. So Saga is nowhere near the ownership cap. And while Saga owns four of the nine non-translator, commercial-band signals in Ithaca...it only takes one competing station to really keep ad rates in check. Saga will (presumably) always have WVBR to fill that spoiler role, and WFIZ just adds a multiplier to that effect.

Of course, I'm FLAIM will file an objection anyways...despite being shot down at least once already by the FCC.
 

"Also, Ithaca is part of the Syracuse market...so while Ithaca proper has relatively few non-translator signals, the overall Syracuse market has lots."


Ithaca is part of the Syracuse market? Huh? Arbitron clearly defines them as seperate markets...your state ment is false. A 250 watt spoiler or original programer...it doesn't matter the wattage or the tonnage...it is pointed right at and only concerned with a single market, Ithaca... Bottom line the opening in Ithaca Proper was AAA and again the smart move would be put it on the stronger signal and nurture it, it would blossom! Those of you associated with it, you know who you are, know I'm right...stand up and grab the balls and lead, quite reacting!
 
Ithaca is part of the Syracuse market? Huh? Arbitron clearly defines them as seperate markets...your state ment is false.

Then why do my Arbitron (nee Radio Research Consortium) reports that show up every six months say SYRACUSE on the cover? I don't pay for Syracuse, I don't have stations in Syracuse, I don't want Syracuse info...and I don't get it; I get Ithaca info. But it says Syracuse on there.

Bottom line the opening in Ithaca Proper was AAA and again the smart move would be put it on the stronger signal and nurture it, it would blossom! Those of you associated with it, you know who you are, know I'm right...stand up and grab the balls and lead, quite reacting!

Ummm...sorry but I got lost here. Grammar check, please?
 
JakeLongwell said:
It's "legal" for two reasons. One, I believe that translators don't count against a station group's market cap. So, in theory, Saga could acquire more translators to simulcast HD programming until or unless the regulations are changed. The second reason this is going on is because nobody at the FCC seems to care, or, at least, not enough people at the FCC seem to care.

I'm quite sure you're right -- that the translator doesn't count as a "station". It is, officially, just an additional transmitter for a station Saga already owns, a station that already counts against Saga's market cap. In theory, the translator doesn't reach any audience that the primary station wouldn't reach if not for terrain obstructions/overload interference from other stations/etc. And yes, I'm quite sure Saga could obtain additional translators to relay other HD2 and HD3 channels in the market, as long as the coverage of those translators was restricted to the coverage of the primary station's analog signal.

(I do think people are going way out on a limb carrying HD2/HD3 programming in analog form on translators. Have the stations shown the coverage of the translator is restricted to the coverage area **of the HD signal**? (that coverage being generally less than that of the analog)

That said, it *is* an outside-the-box way to bring additional programming to Ithaca, and there's nothing to stop WVBR from doing the same thing.)
 
Couple things......Ithaca is a separate Arbitron market....go to Arb's website and look it up. Aaron, Ithaca is a one county metro survey area that is also I believe a TSA county to Syracuse (its in the TV ADI of Syracuse I think?). You can buy separate number breakouts of certain counties and it says its Syracuse (as many Non comm's do) because I think Tompkins Co is still TSA to Syracuse. . Of course Cortland Co is a metro county to Syracuse (at least when I was there 30 years ago!). Many smaller markets can be very well served by two or three well placed translators. In mountainous areas some translators have great coverage areas. Take Cary Simpson's Tyrone, PA translator. Its 235 watts at around 400 meters HAAT (a fill-in translator of course). Although it is directional it still points the beam over the population and has the equivalent coverage area of a 3 kw Class A. Its all about location and the allocations layout. A few good translators and a big stick AM (5kw plus) can now be much more effectively competitive.
 
Isn't your station trying to buy a translator currently owned by another public radio station in the market? Is that the point of this topic?
 
Isn't your station trying to buy a translator currently owned by another public radio station in the market? Is that the point of this topic?

Who, me? Not really, but it's not like WEOS is ever going to turn down a translator if someone offers to sell it to us. That's especially true in Ithaca. Sure we've got the CP for WITH, but I'd like to program WITH independently of WEOS, and a translator would help a lot in that regard.
 
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