IT'S KAREL, NOT DR. BILL, SAYS CITADEL

[fandango]

I think John Rothman talks about Israel (always taking the Administration side) about as often as Fox and CNN talk about Britney Spears whenever a big Bush Scandal breaks -- and for similar reasons. That's why the frequency of his Israel topics bother me.

Uh? Most of the time I've listened I've heard John Rothmann blast the Bush administration saying things like "travesty", "losing our precious freedoms", and "rapidly moving toward an oligarchy". These words don't seem like taking the Administration side to me.

We don't agree here, and I can't quite explain myself. While Rothman has recently been hard on Bush; this doesn't cover the last seven years or so. Rothman was very, very, very late to the party, David.

Rothman is a self-identified Jewish intellectual who strongly supported NeoCon domestic and foreign policy initiatives until just a few years ago. Long, long ago in another life, he worked in the Richard Nixon whitehouse. Having lately been let down by his many conservative Republican friends, he is apparently going through a quiet crisis of belief. It especially shows up when he chooses to discuss Israel. I don't object to Israeli topics; I object to the frequency and the gratuitousness of Israeli topics on his show. He often discusses Israel on days when there is an Administration scandal that is more important to deal with; but one that is hard for him personally to come to grips with. I admit that he's getting better, but I still have a bad taste in my mouth from all those earlier years when he really was a cheerleader for Bush, and regularly (but politely) put down callers who questioned his pro-Bush stands. I am not particularly pro-Palestinian, but his lack of concern for innocent Palestinian refugees is disgusting to me. By the way, I don't listen to Ronn Owens at all, and for some of the same reasons.

Angie Coiro(sp) is a fine host, but a little wooden I think (bearable to me), and I don't think she quite has a handle on the rough and skraggly wild-eyed two-percenters who call KGO. ... And she can't recognize a planted Freeper trollcaller to save her sugar-sweet life. If she wants a job at KGO, she'll have to learn to play with the Freepers.

I'd wager that she knows exactly what she's doing and simply giving them a forum to help balance out the show. She's very bright and not at all the sugar-sweet you think she is. She's just a happy person who doesn't take the talk radio thing all that seriously.

[/quote]

I don't have that impression about Coiro. I was just reacting to the two substitute shows I've heard recently. Coiro simply didn't handle freepers as well as Bernie Ward does, and I was left with the pointed impression that she had not even recognized that Freepers were phunking her show. Still, she chose decent topics and had more intelligent things to say about them than Karel usually does. I'm sure she would make a fine addition to the KGO lineup.

 

[fandango]

"KGO has competition. Karel doesn't hold a candle to Rachael Maddow on KKGN. He should thank his little gold stars that he only has to compete with her during the first hour of his fill-in show for Bernie. Given how good Rachael is, I think Christine Craft would do a better job in that fill in spot."

Rachel MAddow is not competition to Karel. Neither is Mike Malloy who follows at 11 on 960. Maddow and Malloy have failed to pull significant audiences on air america stations, and both lack entertainment value. Maddow doesn't even take any calls, and Malloy barely takes any calls. Malloy is bitter and angry too much of the time.

On a station managed better than KKGN, I think Rachael Maddow would blow Karel away. The lady has knowledge of politics, personal poise and a polished, cheerful personal style that Karel seems to lack. This is close to a personal preference on my part, but I seem to share this impression with a lot of broadcast folks back East (if not in the Bay Area).

I agree with you on Malloy. Urban San Francisco is just not his primary audience. In fact, that's probably my primary problem with Karel: He continually yells at me directly (over the radio) for holding political views that I don't have. Karel often seems to be preaching political fire and brimstone to Orange County -- not to San Francisco.

960 should take this opportunity and put Collins on tape delay 10pm-1am. Peter B. Collins is a San Francisco radio veteran and everybody knows him from KSFO and KNBR where he got great ratings. He now has his own syndicated show M-F 3p-6p Pacific.

Peter B. is a great idea. He would fit very well in that time slot.

 

[DavidKaye]

Though we disagree on several fronts (but not all,) I'd listen to Christine Craft late night on KGO in a minute. She is better than the other two women who fill in (too sweet and syruppy for me,) and is better hands down ....

Christine Craft is scrappy, and she means it. I like that in a talkshow host. Karel can act scrappy, but you just know it's posturing. It's as if he's going to play back the recording later and evaluate whether he sounded scrappy enough. It's like everything with him is a rehearsal for something else, maybe his stage play or something. Who knows....

....than Karel, who shouldn't be an exploited gay man on radio just because he has "the credentials." He doesn't know how to use the 50,000 watts, in my opinion, though I did think he and Andrew were pretty funny on KFI. But not now. He sounds unprepared, way too defensive, cuts listeners off out of fear of their disagreeing with him and is a horrid listener ... let alone a host.

One can be a gay man on the radio and not do "honey" this and "honey" that, nor fawn over female recording stars, nor go on about how important it's supposed to be to be gay and on the air.

I have been out as a gay broadcaster longer than probably anybody else in the Bay Area (1973), and I've never had to resort to martyrdom. While people may have talked behind my back, I cannot think of any time I was denied any or any position due to my sexuality. I've always been forthright and as far as I know, people have also treated me with forthrightness. I bristle when I her Karel go off on the gay thing, not because of his queeniness, or anything else most gay men hate to be associated with, but because I've long ago learned that the best way to deal with something is to let people know it's the norm and any problems are theirs to get over, not mine.

I've also listened to her through the years on KGO and think, too, that she has "evolved" a lot more in recent years than merely, "changed." Yes, she can be a one-trick pony politically, but I think her "lawyering" has brought a liberal understanding and clarity that I find interesting to listen to, though I disagree with her a lot.

One thing I've emphasized in my attempt to break into local talkradio is that it's not a matter of being a broadcaster, but of having something to say. I feel that the more life experiences a person has, the better able they are to become a good talkshow host. This is why I feel Christine Craft runs circles around Karel. She has plenty of life experiences to call on. Karel, as far as I can tell, has spent most of his life as an entertainment writer.

Actually, Rich Wood, whose credentials go back to Talknet, WOR Radio Networks, and even to XETRA in its McLendon days, has long said that if an air talent has something to say he'd hire them over someone who has broadcasting experience. You can teach broadcasting, but you can't teach experience.

 

[oaktree]

Very well said, David! Excellent post and congratulations on your candor and honesty. Listeners listen ... not because a host is "something" ... but because they have "something to say" and the art of "listening" as well. Karel is out of his league and is a showboater for effect ... not "affect."

 

[coppersmom]

I feel scrappy right now...and I mean it!!

 

[oaktree]

... and know how "to use those 50,000 watts."

What's Jack Swanson thinking? You do a great job CC. Keep up the good work ... just give us more of it. "Scrappy on..."

 

[ABQTom]

Hey,

My goodness sorry to see that Karel is so unpopular here. Karel has remained one of my favorite talk hosts ever since I heard him in 2003 on KGO. He is passionate when he talks about issues, and that brings passionate callers to the programs. He is more entertaining than he is informative, but that's great, because KGO has a mixture of both types of hosts (plus satirists and scientists). He does lifestyle talk exceptionally well, and few other KGO hosts do this. He has excellent interviewing skills, and interacts with his guests seemingly without the need to use notes. Karel is on my Email Talk Radio industry news updates list and I am very pleased to have him as a member.

I don't understand the need to comment on how Karel chooses to present himself on KGO as a gay man. In fact, I find some of these comments to be quite narcissistic. I know a few gay individuals and they are all very different in how they present themselves in public. Just chill out, relax, guys, enough of this cliquishness about broadcast journalists who are gay. I've seen it happen with Geov Parrissh and Michael Hood attacking the late Mike Webb in Seattle, and I think it is very childish.

 

[DavidKaye]

I don't understand the need to comment on how Karel chooses to present himself on KGO as a gay man.

The comment is important to the discussion because there are in the arsenal of tools he uses to do his show. I'm sorry, but calling a straight man "honey" is poor form. He's done this to Len Tillem on several occasions and Len hates it. Karel is not blue-haired "Flo" at the local diner. It's not endearing. It's just plain rude.

It's possible for someone to be out and not be offensive.

 

[ABQTom]

I don't understand the need to comment on how Karel chooses to present himself on KGO as a gay man.

The comment is important to the discussion because there are in the arsenal of tools he uses to do his show. I'm sorry, but calling a straight man "honey" is poor form. He's done this to Len Tillem on several occasions and Len hates it. Karel is not blue-haired "Flo" at the local diner. It's not endearing. It's just plain rude.

It's possible for someone to be out and not be offensive.

I don't know the context of the words that you claim that Karel is using, so I have no further comments.

 

[oaktree]

As who one listens ... I don't need one person -- gay or not -- to pontificate a "lifestyle" choice to me in relationship to "issues of the day." Karel certainly does and, in fact, flaunts it. He is what he is and I appreciate that. But to ram his "cutesy" comments and remarks out of anyone's radio to "promote" his given lifestyle is offensive in many ways. "Acceptability" is one thing, but to blow off people because "that's just the way I am ... take it or leave it," shows little regard to those who pay the freight...the listeners and callers. It's not all about "the host." And Karel proves it. His opinion is one thing ... and welcomed. Tying it to his lifestyle is completely another. His numbers, on KGO, incidentally, aren't afternoon drive, on KFI. Two different animals. Two completely different audience levels. Saturday & Sunday nights 7-10 (or 6-10, for that matter) is "ratings hell." The numbers don't even compare with other dayparts and audience levels. You'd have to have a Maximizer in your laptop to know them, in fact.

 

[ABQTom]

Well........I understand what you're saying, and I agree that some would be offended, but it's happened before in Talk Radio with other gay and lesbian hosts.

Listeners in Seattle to KIRO will remember the "Gaydometer," where Mike plays this strange machine sounding sound effect, and then proclaims the caller (who is either Gay or Straight) as gay. It's humorous, and draws the listeners' attention if they've tuned out.

I would submit that Karel and Mike are just being themselves on the radio, and we really need more of that on the radio today. We need less of the partisan bickering on both sides. I think what Karel, Mike do is no different than Bernie talking about his pets, or Talliaferro and Michael Savage talking about gardening.

And, it's just talk radio. The hosts wouldn't do this in public or at sales meetings.

And, although I don't listen to Rachel Maddow, I understand that she talks about her social life...and the person who informed me of this (nearing 70, socially conservative) thought it was annoying (just like posters here)...

Finally, it would be nice if the radio biz was tolerant enough to allow everyone to come out without fears of firing or threats. This is a terribly homophobic industry, and that has to change.

 

[DavidKaye]

Well........I understand what you're saying, and I agree that some would be offended, but it's happened before in Talk Radio with other gay and lesbian hosts.

More than one gay man and lesbian has poor taste. Fancy that. Remember that I spent 10 years in the broadcasting biz myself and was out about it the whole time. It wasn't important do being a DJ, so I didn't mention it, but I did do some occasional news features and did a couple years of talkradio when I did indeed bring it up from time to time. But calling people "honey" and going on about needing a date -- in fact Karel once asked for a date on the air -- that's just crass.

Finally, it would be nice if the radio biz was tolerant enough to allow everyone to come out without fears of firing or threats. This is a terribly homophobic industry, and that has to change.

It's funny that I never experience homophobia among management, but did among DJs, one of the reasons I came to despise (that's a gay word, "despise") DJs. It seems that the lower someone is in the pecking order, the more they seem inclined to be jerks.

Note that Michael Luckoff, GM of KGO, has stated that KGO has "several" gay folks on staff, and those of us who get around know who they are, of course. It would be nice if some of KGO's staff would come out over the air, but now that Karel has solidified the idea of what a gay man is "supposed" to be in the public consciousness, I don't blame the various KGO staffers for wanting to crawl into a hole and hide.

 

[chris319]

I gave Karel a fair chance to get me to like him. Now he is instant tune-out. I hit the button as soon as I can tell it is he ("I AM KA-" ... blip ... button pushed ... gone). He is immature, has but a surface knowledge of the issues, and borders on rudeness with callers by talking over them and cutting them off after about a minute (that and taking calls infrequently assures that callers won't encroach on HIS air time). His other attributes -- his carton-a-day cigarette voice*, his Krusty the Klown laugh, and his occasional racist remark -- don't do him any favors. His in-your-face "outness" pales in comparison. Jack Swanson is probably the worst thing that ever happened to Karel's radio career, because apparently Swanson has pumped up Karel's ego to the point where he thinks he is good and there is no room for improvement.

Though I despise (there's that gay word again) Gabbert personally, I give him kudos for doing a decent call-in show. He is listenable and a good fit for KGO. You don't suppose Gabbert is gay, do you?

David, PLEASE don't drag Karel onto this board. Let him blow kisses at/duke it out over there in Chuckieville with a certain pompous, self-righteous, know-it-all engineer from Sanna Zay, and his friends "Mel Lerner" et al.

* I don't know whether Karel smokes, used to smoke or never smoked, but his sure sounds like a cigarette voice.

 

[DavidKaye]

Though I despise (there's that gay word again) Gabbert personally, I give him kudos for doing a decent call-in show. He is listenable and a good fit for KGO. You don't suppose Gabbert is gay, do you?

Heh heh...I first found out about Gabbert when I was in high school and a college guy I knew had been invited to one of his parties. My friend had been a courier responsible for distributing tapes between KABL's studio and transmitter, and other broadcast-related stuff. And then there was the famous field trip to KIOI by the students at Clayton Valley High School. Propriety keeps me from saying more about it, except that the incident is legendary, and I knew several of the students who were present that day. That's back when broadcasting was fun. Does KIOI even have live staff anymore?

David, PLEASE don't drag Karel onto this board. Let him blow kisses at/duke it out over there in Chuckieville with a certain pompous, self-righteous, know-it-all engineer from Sanna Zay, and his friends "Mel Lerner" et al.

Oh, you remember...no, I don't intend to make that mistake again. I thought that by inviting Karel to ba.broadcast it would be beneficial to him as a talkshow host. I thought that people had posted some useful ideas there. Big mistake.

 

[chris319]

Propriety keeps me from describing the "interview" process at TV 20, but one of Mr. Gabbert's former managers is damn lucky he didn't find himself the target of a lawsuit. Gabbert and company were the subjects of an NLRB case which is fascinating reading and can be found on line.

Bringing Karel to ba.broadcast wasn't a total waste, David. Karel's defensiveness gave us some high comedy which I, for one, found highly amusing. It seems K. bade the group farewell "forever" a couple of times, only to return some time later and get worked up into a lather and bid the group farewell "forever" all over again. Drama queen. However, I never found out the details of the parking lot confrontation between K. and Dr. W. following a KGO All Stars broadcast a few years back (in which the word "lawyer" came up).

Leave Karel at the old place to mix it up with Chuckie Baby, Higgy, Mel Lerner and the gang.

 

[LKellerIII]

"Propriety keeps me from describing the "interview" process at TV 20, but one of Mr. Gabbert's former managers is damn lucky he didn't find himself the target of a lawsuit. Gabbert and company were the subjects of an NLRB case which is fascinating reading and can be found on line."

Gabbert was 'outed' by a former lover a few years ago - I think it was just after he sold TV20. He was not pleased...I guess he thought it was a secret, but I had assumed he always was basically "out." All you had to do was check out the "bartender" studs on those Sunday night Sleazy Arms Hotel broadcasts.

 

[chris319]

Jeeminy Christmas, outing James Gabbert is like outing Merv Griffin or Liberace or Jerry Jensen. It's an open secret and everybody "knows". Would I be shocked if someone outed Ryan Seacrest or Simon Cowell?

Is Mike Lincoln still of this world? These guys must be pushing 70 by now.

 

[ABQTom]

However, I never found out the details of the parking lot confrontation between K. and Dr. W. following a KGO All Stars broadcast a few years back (in which the word "lawyer" came up).

OH MY! THAT IS WHEN Prof. Wattenburg Violated KGO/ABC Copyright restrictions. Dr. Bill recorded Karel's comments on various issues, and played them LIVE ON STAGE at the KGO ALL STARS in fall 1995. Everyone was SHOCKED at Dr. Bill's Behavior. Then, as you recall, Dr. Bill spent subsequent AIRTIME BLASTING Karel. And, RayTal BLASTED Dr. Bill. Ratings went way up.

Clearly, Dr. Bill is homophobic and jealous of Karel's ratings. I didn't hear about the PARKING LOT INCIDENT, my goodness!

If it was LEGAL I'd post the debate audio here! I also have the recordings of Dr. Bill and RayTal on their programs after the debate.

 

[DavidKaye]

Jeeminy Christmas, outing James Gabbert is like outing Merv Griffin or Liberace or Jerry Jensen. It's an open secret and everybody "knows". Would I be shocked if someone outed Ryan Seacrest or Simon Cowell?
Is Mike Lincoln still of this world? These guys must be pushing 70 by now.

Last I heard, Michael Lincoln is alive and well and making the rounds. I believe he is now 63 and Gabbert is 71. I don't believe they live together anymore, though I think they're neighbors.

As far as I'm aware, Jim was annoyed that he was outed solely because he had been afraid of losing business should advertisers find out and cancel. When he realized that the advertisers didn't care and he wasn't going to lose his livelihood, he put Channel 20 foursquare behind the airing of the GBLT parade, not only producing it at considerable expense, but promoting it far and beyond anything I can think he'd ever done on that station.

Jim was never in the closet among gay folks. I remember seeing him at various parties, etc. Everybody knew who he was. While I wasn't a friend of his nor a personal fan (he was too egocentric for me at the time), I was a fan of his chutzpah -- the fact that he was able to put on outlandish parties on his yachts, go down to bars and pick up guys and bring them along, and all the while operate one of the most successful radio stations the Bay Area has seen. I love gall like that. (I was also a fan of his engineering and his vision.)

Jerry Jensen was likewise fairly open. In fact, he hired a friend of mine as a houseboy (well, the guy was Japanese and, well....) Jerry, in fact, came to our house from time to time for a gay-oriented discussion group that used to be held there. A very very nice guy.

I never met Merv Griffin, but from what I know he was never closeted, either, though he was bisexual, not gay. He was seen around LA and the Bay Area with various dates over the years.

Likewise Raymond Burr, whom I met somewhere, I think at a bar in Santa Rosa. He had lots of parties and got around, especially in horse circles, and was never closeted, but also did not see it important to tell everybody, either. In fact, all the 4 male stars of the original Perry Mason series were gay.

Liberace -- who knows what he was about? He successfully sued a tabloid newspaper in the 1950s for outing him and lied under oath, specifically stating that he was not gay.

Suze Orman -- heh, not long ago she said, "What? You didn't realize I'm a lesbian? How could anybody not know?" But again, she hasn't seen it important to bring it up because it isn't really important to her discussion of personal finance, self-improvement, etc. And likewise Lily Tomlin. Spend an evening within earshot of her when she's in town and you know that she's not closeted at all -- and the mouth on her!

There is a propensity among many gay folks to want to have "representatives" out there to "prove" to the world that gay folks can be everything and do everything non-gay folks can do. Okay, I guess that was fine for the 1970s, and it was something I promoted myself. I was once overjoyed when I learned a DJ, newscaster, or anchorman was gay. I thought at the time it was important to my own self-worth.

It was important to learn the Jerry Jensen was gay a generation ago; it is not important to me that Hank Plante is gay now.

Now I look upon some of these folks with suspicion, wondering if they have anything else to bring to the table than their gayness. No, I'm not trashing Hank Plante. It has never been an issue with him. But, with Karel, it appears to be the only thing he brings to the table.

We have to thank early gay rights activist Harry Hay with coming up with the concept of gay men as being a separate tribe. This was important in the 1950s as Hay realized success as a union organizer creating tribes of longshoremen, teamsters, and factory workers. Solidarity was important in union organizing, and it was very important in gay civil rights organizing.

But I don't think it's important today. And many folks in the radio and TV broadcasting, movies, and the self-help movement don't think it's very important either.

 

[LKellerIII]

"In fact, all the 4 male stars of the original Perry Mason series were gay."

Ray Collins (Lieutenant Tragg) was gay? I'm shocked!