It's Official: Saul Levine no longer a hero

[scooty430]

Though Saul Levine's musical chairs format switching with the AM outlets was good for a laugh, I always respected him for maintaining a classical outlet in Los Angeles, even when he could have made heaps of money by either selling the station or changing the format.

Now, he has traded away a station with some considerable legacy, and long-standing ties to local cultural institutions such as the Philharmonic, to try out a more marketable format. Even more lamentable is his decision to put classical music, a genre that really depends on excellent sound quality, on AM.

Saul, most of the people who enjoy country music live within earshot of KFROG, and tune into them. Sure, you have given some country listeners west of the 605 their country back, but in the process, you have disenfranchised a large number of longtime listeners who have tuned into KKGO for almost 20 years. Granted, KUSC was a far better station, playing full pieces rather than excerpts, and playing a wider variety of works. However, it was great to have two (three if you count KCSN) classical outlets in a major metropolis.

What a sad decision, and a big loss for the city of Los Angeles.

 

[briancraig]

Classical fans had 3 FM stations, country fans had 0 FM Stations, soon classical fans will have 2 FM stations and country fans will have 1.

How is that a loss for the city?

 

[radioresearcher]

Scooty:

I have to respectfully disagree with you. I give Saul credit for making a smart business decision - one he easily could have made last August. Radio is a business. Even in a perfect world, KMZT wasn't likely to bill more than $10-$12 million.

A well executed Country format could yield $20-$25 million/year in revenue. It wasn't likely with debt service and the pressures of Wall Street that Country would return on another frequency.

KUSC's coverage area is more than satisfactory to serve the needs of the small legion of Classical listeners. Plus, it is not a revenue friendly format.

KFRG is programmed to the Inland Empire. It is not an L.A. or Orange County station. Los Angeles is the No. 1 sales market in America for Country music and it needs a voice.

I say props to Saul and his family for making this move. Classical fans will still have an outlet in L.A. Country fans will now have theirs too.

Though Saul Levine's musical chairs format switching with the AM outlets was good for a laugh, I always respected him for maintaining a classical outlet in Los Angeles, even when he could have made heaps of money by either selling the station or changing the format.

Now, he has traded away a station with some considerable legacy, and long-standing ties to local cultural institutions such as the Philharmonic, to try out a more marketable format. Even more lamentable is his decision to put classical music, a genre that really depends on excellent sound quality, on AM.

Saul, most of the people who enjoy country music live within earshot of KFROG, and tune into them. Sure, you have given some country listeners west of the 605 their country back, but in the process, you have disenfranchised a large number of longtime listeners who have tuned into KKGO for almost 20 years. Granted, KUSC was a far better station, playing full pieces rather than excerpts, and playing a wider variety of works. However, it was great to have two (three if you count KCSN) classical outlets in a major metropolis.

What a sad decision, and a big loss for the city of Los Angeles.

 

[dbdigital]

Scooty:

I have to respectfully disagree with you. I give Saul credit for making a smart business decision - one he easily could have made last August. Radio is a business. Even in a perfect world, KMZT wasn't likely to bill more than $10-$12 million.

A well executed Country format could yield $20-$25 million/year in revenue. It wasn't likely with debt service and the pressures of Wall Street that Country would return on another frequency.

KUSC's coverage area is more than satisfactory to serve the needs of the small legion of Classical listeners. Plus, it is not a revenue friendly format.

KFRG is programmed to the Inland Empire. It is not an L.A. or Orange County station. Los Angeles is the No. 1 sales market in America for Country music and it needs a voice.

I say props to Saul and his family for making this move. Classical fans will still have an outlet in L.A. Country fans will now have theirs too.

Though Saul Levine's musical chairs format switching with the AM outlets was good for a laugh, I always respected him for maintaining a classical outlet in Los Angeles, even when he could have made heaps of money by either selling the station or changing the format.

Now, he has traded away a station with some considerable legacy, and long-standing ties to local cultural institutions such as the Philharmonic, to try out a more marketable format. Even more lamentable is his decision to put classical music, a genre that really depends on excellent sound quality, on AM.

Saul, most of the people who enjoy country music live within earshot of KFROG, and tune into them. Sure, you have given some country listeners west of the 605 their country back, but in the process, you have disenfranchised a large number of longtime listeners who have tuned into KKGO for almost 20 years. Granted, KUSC was a far better station, playing full pieces rather than excerpts, and playing a wider variety of works. However, it was great to have two (three if you count KCSN) classical outlets in a major metropolis.

What a sad decision, and a big loss for the city of Los Angeles.

Yes, it's becoming increasing clear that classical's survival as a format for terrestrial radio will depend on the NCE stations. While I'm a fan of most things retro, putting classical on AM is a bad idea today. Listeners are just too attuned to better sound, even if it's only analog FM stereo.

But who knows? Sandwiched in amongst the detrious of Spanish, talk, sports and evangelical screamers will be the sweet sounds of Beethoven (albeit in telephone-quality audio). Maybe classical on AM could work if only for the stark contrast.

db

 

[romer979fm]

Saul, most of the people who enjoy country music live within earshot of KFROG, and tune into them.

wrong. you are perpetuating a long-dead steroetype of the rural...let's just say "less sophisticated"
image of the country listener. it's just not true: country listeners are as mainstream as any other format.

 

[Element9]

Saul, most of the people who enjoy country music live within earshot of KFROG, and tune into them.

wrong. you are perpetuating a long-dead steroetype of the rural...let's just say "less sophisticated" image of the country listener.it's just not true: country listeners are as mainstream as any other format.

Although I whole-heartedly agree with this statement and believe today's Country is America's Adult Top 40 or Alternative AC... the dark side of me can't resist commenting about country music's right wing, my-country-love-it-or-leave-it attitude of censorship and supporting the wingnuts in DC who spun mythical stories of WMD's, Mushroom Clouds and Yellow Cake. Hmmmm.... we can only wonder if the Dixie Chicks will make the KKGO playlist.

I hope Go Country (unfortunately a dumb moniker) proves the "Country can't win in LA" experts wrong.

We now return to our regularly scheduled programming.

-9-

 

[mostb1]

Saul, most of the people who enjoy country music live within earshot of KFROG, and tune into them.

wrong. you are perpetuating a long-dead steroetype of the rural...let's just say "less sophisticated" image of the country listener.it's just not true: country listeners are as mainstream as any other format.

Although I whole-heartedly agree with this statement and believe today's Country is America's Adult Top 40 or Alternative AC... the dark side of me can't resist commenting about country music's right wing, my-country-love-it-or-leave-it attitude of censorship and supporting the wingnuts in DC who spun mythical stories of WMD's, Mushroom Clouds and Yellow Cake. Hmmmm.... we can only wonder if the Dixie Chicks will make the KKGO playlist.

I hope Go Country (unfortunately a dumb moniker) proves the "Country can't win in LA" experts wrong.

We now return to our regularly scheduled programming.

-9-

Why are you wondering what programming/music is going to be on the station? It's already on the air at 540/1260 AM and has been for months. It's just moving to the FM dial. In fact, some of the programing, such as Whitney Allen's show, will be from Dial Global. Even the website is already up, as sad as it is. Go Country 105's website makes Emmis look like they actually spent time & money on Movin's website www.gocountry105.com

 

[scooty430]

Saul, most of the people who enjoy country music live within earshot of KFROG, and tune into them.

wrong. you are perpetuating a long-dead steroetype of the rural...let's just say "less sophisticated"
image of the country listener. it's just not true: country listeners are as mainstream as any other format.

Who said anything about sophistication? That is your trip, my friend, not mine.

K-FROG has been a top station for years. KZLA had numbers....what, around 1.8? There are simply more country music fans in OC and the Inland Empire than the Westside, Valley, South Bay, and Central L.A. areas.

If you want to make a judgement about which listener base is more sophisticated, go right ahead. But don't accuse me of doing so.

 

[scooty430]

Scooty:

I have to respectfully disagree with you. I give Saul credit for making a smart business decision - one he easily could have made last August. Radio is a business. Even in a perfect world, KMZT wasn't likely to bill more than $10-$12 million.

A well executed Country format could yield $20-$25 million/year in revenue. It wasn't likely with debt service and the pressures of Wall Street that Country would return on another frequency.

KUSC's coverage area is more than satisfactory to serve the needs of the small legion of Classical listeners. Plus, it is not a revenue friendly format.

KFRG is programmed to the Inland Empire. It is not an L.A. or Orange County station. Los Angeles is the No. 1 sales market in America for Country music and it needs a voice.

I say props to Saul and his family for making this move. Classical fans will still have an outlet in L.A. Country fans will now have theirs too.

Though Saul Levine's musical chairs format switching with the AM outlets was good for a laugh, I always respected him for maintaining a classical outlet in Los Angeles, even when he could have made heaps of money by either selling the station or changing the format.

Now, he has traded away a station with some considerable legacy, and long-standing ties to local cultural institutions such as the Philharmonic, to try out a more marketable format. Even more lamentable is his decision to put classical music, a genre that really depends on excellent sound quality, on AM.

Saul, most of the people who enjoy country music live within earshot of KFROG, and tune into them. Sure, you have given some country listeners west of the 605 their country back, but in the process, you have disenfranchised a large number of longtime listeners who have tuned into KKGO for almost 20 years. Granted, KUSC was a far better station, playing full pieces rather than excerpts, and playing a wider variety of works. However, it was great to have two (three if you count KCSN) classical outlets in a major metropolis.

What a sad decision, and a big loss for the city of Los Angeles.

Judging from the LA Times article today, it looked like money was the primary motivation for Saul. I have a little more sympathy for him if he is really losing all his accounts - 80 percent in the last year if you believe the article.

I guess the problem for me is that Saul was always promoting underrepresented, quality music on his frequency. First jazz, then classical. He was the only commercial spot on the dial for both of these formats.

If Saul were planning to play classic country, bluegrass - stuff like Ralph Stanley, Merle Haggard, the Osborne Brothers, Willie Nelson, and so on, it would be one thing. Or, if he were playing new artists with some depth: Dixie Chicks, Mavericks - stuff you might hear on Twang or Citybilly - in combination with the older, roots stuff. But the modern, plastic, commercial country that KZLA played in its later years, and that most country stations play today, is hardly country at all. It's slick, empty, and hollow.

My guess is that Saul is planning a very narrowly formatted, commercial country station. Which is sad because he would have no country competition, and he seems to only want to earn a "decent" profit, rather than rule the world. So he could really do something special and unique with country and roots music. Something I would listen to, indeed.

That is why Saul is no longer a hero. He's not biting the bullet to keep LA with a great cultural asset. He is just making a (maybe) smart business decision. Nothing wrong with that, but nothing heroic about it either.

Anyhow, this 25-34 aged demographic listener has already removed 105.1 from the presets.... See ya, Saul.

 

[davideduardo]

My guess is that Saul is planning a very narrowly formatted, commercial country station. Which is sad because he would have no country competition, and he seems to only want to earn a "decent" profit, rather than rule the world. So he could really do something special and unique with country and roots music. Something I would listen to, indeed.

And probably nobody else. If you want to design an eclectic format to your own taste, buy an iPod.

Anyhow, this 25-34 aged demographic listener has already removed 105.1 from the presets.... See ya, Saul.

Very few were listeing previously... the station was 30'th in that demo. It will likely do much better in younger demos as a country station playing hits.

 

[romer979fm]

Saul, most of the people who enjoy country music live within earshot of KFROG, and tune into them.

again...are you not saying that virtually no one in LA County enjoys country music?
that's just not true...tho it IS true that there are not enough to support the format

 

[ercjncpr]

Scooty:

I have to respectfully disagree with you. I give Saul credit for making a smart business decision - one he easily could have made last August. Radio is a business. Even in a perfect world, KMZT wasn't likely to bill more than $10-$12 million.

A well executed Country format could yield $20-$25 million/year in revenue. It wasn't likely with debt service and the pressures of Wall Street that Country would return on another frequency.

KUSC's coverage area is more than satisfactory to serve the needs of the small legion of Classical listeners. Plus, it is not a revenue friendly format.

KFRG is programmed to the Inland Empire. It is not an L.A. or Orange County station. Los Angeles is the No. 1 sales market in America for Country music and it needs a voice.

I say props to Saul and his family for making this move. Classical fans will still have an outlet in L.A. Country fans will now have theirs too.

Though Saul Levine's musical chairs format switching with the AM outlets was good for a laugh, I always respected him for maintaining a classical outlet in Los Angeles, even when he could have made heaps of money by either selling the station or changing the format.

Now, he has traded away a station with some considerable legacy, and long-standing ties to local cultural institutions such as the Philharmonic, to try out a more marketable format. Even more lamentable is his decision to put classical music, a genre that really depends on excellent sound quality, on AM.

Saul, most of the people who enjoy country music live within earshot of KFROG, and tune into them. Sure, you have given some country listeners west of the 605 their country back, but in the process, you have disenfranchised a large number of longtime listeners who have tuned into KKGO for almost 20 years. Granted, KUSC was a far better station, playing full pieces rather than excerpts, and playing a wider variety of works. However, it was great to have two (three if you count KCSN) classical outlets in a major metropolis.

What a sad decision, and a big loss for the city of Los Angeles.

Judging from the LA Times article today, it looked like money was the primary motivation for Saul. I have a little more sympathy for him if he is really losing all his accounts - 80 percent in the last year if you believe the article.

I guess the problem for me is that Saul was always promoting underrepresented, quality music on his frequency. First jazz, then classical. He was the only commercial spot on the dial for both of these formats.

If Saul were planning to play classic country, bluegrass - stuff like Ralph Stanley, Merle Haggard, the Osborne Brothers, Willie Nelson, and so on, it would be one thing. Or, if he were playing new artists with some depth: Dixie Chicks, Mavericks - stuff you might hear on Twang or Citybilly - in combination with the older, roots stuff. But the modern, plastic, commercial country that KZLA played in its later years, and that most country stations play today, is hardly country at all. It's slick, empty, and hollow.

My guess is that Saul is planning a very narrowly formatted, commercial country station. Which is sad because he would have no country competition, and he seems to only want to earn a "decent" profit, rather than rule the world. So he could really do something special and unique with country and roots music. Something I would listen to, indeed.

That is why Saul is no longer a hero. He's not biting the bullet to keep LA with a great cultural asset. He is just making a (maybe) smart business decision. Nothing wrong with that, but nothing heroic about it either.

Anyhow, this 25-34 aged demographic listener has already removed 105.1 from the presets.... See ya, Saul.

Well I don't doubt he is losing all of his accounts. He is the most insane person to ever work in SoCal Radio and this move proves it.

 

[scooty430]

Saul, most of the people who enjoy country music live within earshot of KFROG, and tune into them.

again...are you not saying that virtually no one in LA County enjoys country music?
that's just not true...tho it IS true that there are not enough to support the format

I think you just answered your own question.

 

[sdwulfdawg]

Perhaps the American Psychological Association should look at adding another mental disorder to their encyclopedia: Radio format disphoria and mania....or more commonly known as "Saul Levine's Syndrome."

 

[ercjncpr]

Perhaps the American Psychological Association should look at adding another mental disorder to their encyclopedia: Radio format disphoria and mania....or more commonly known as "Saul Levine's Syndrome."

That says it perfectly, thanks! ;D

 

[doublecashkgb]

"radio researcher" amuses me, first the name spells it out. As Bill Drake once said "many guys married to research, tend to research their ass right out of the business.

I find it hilarious that suddenly you're singing the "radio is a business" song in regard to Saul. We all know its a business (well most of us know) Saul hasn't treated it like a business for years. It's a hobby for the man. Most of his decisions are based on whim and caprice, he attempts to jump on trends and capture audience when other stations switch formats. Yet he either doesn't know how or refuses to correctly launch his stations. Talent tends to be second-rate, imaging, production value, marketing, etc. is beyond small-market.

If this time he does it correctly, great. However his track record is awful. He has proven time and time again an inability to stick with any one format (besides Classical). If I were signing on to join the station I would rent, not buy.

 

[radioresearcher]

"radio researcher" amuses me, first the name spells it out. As Bill Drake once said "many guys married to research, tend to research their ass right out of the business.

I find it hilarious that suddenly you're singing the "radio is a business" song in regard to Saul. We all know its a business (well most of us know) Saul hasn't treated it like a business for years. It's a hobby for the man. Most of his decisions are based on whim and caprice, he attempts to jump on trends and capture audience when other stations switch formats. Yet he either doesn't know how or refuses to correctly launch his stations. Talent tends to be second-rate, imaging, production value, marketing, etc. is beyond small-market.

If this time he does it correctly, great. However his track record is awful. He has proven time and time again an inability to stick with any one format (besides Classical). If I were signing on to join the station I would rent, not buy.

Research comes in different forms. It all depends on how you use it. There have been stations (remember "Rock With A Beat") that somehow some ingenious researcher came up with. You can skew the data to do what you want it to do.

Because of the debt service and the pressures that the public companies have (almost every Los Angeles station is owned by a major public company), many of them do not have the ability to flip to Country here in this market. Their shareholders or corporate management needs to generate $30 million+ in revenue to satisfy the bottom line.

Basically, you need someone with the right signal contour, little or no debt service, and someone who is willing to be happy with $15-$20 million/year in revenue. That is Saul.

Why would he stay in Classical when he admitted that the revenue is in the tank - and he lost a large number of his advertisers last year?

 

[mostb1]

"radio researcher" amuses me, first the name spells it out. As Bill Drake once said "many guys married to research, tend to research their ass right out of the business.

I find it hilarious that suddenly you're singing the "radio is a business" song in regard to Saul. We all know its a business (well most of us know) Saul hasn't treated it like a business for years. It's a hobby for the man. Most of his decisions are based on whim and caprice, he attempts to jump on trends and capture audience when other stations switch formats. Yet he either doesn't know how or refuses to correctly launch his stations. Talent tends to be second-rate, imaging, production value, marketing, etc. is beyond small-market.

If this time he does it correctly, great. However his track record is awful. He has proven time and time again an inability to stick with any one format (besides Classical). If I were signing on to join the station I would rent, not buy.

Research comes in different forms. It all depends on how you use it. There have been stations (remember "Rock With A Beat") that somehow some ingenious researcher came up with. You can skew the data to do what you want it to do.

Because of the debt service and the pressures that the public companies have (almost every Los Angeles station is owned by a major public company), many of them do not have the ability to flip to Country here in this market. Their shareholders or corporate management needs to generate $30 million+ in revenue to satisfy the bottom line.

Basically, you need someone with the right signal contour, little or no debt service, and someone who is willing to be happy with $15-$20 million/year in revenue. That is Saul.

Why would he stay in Classical when he admitted that the revenue is in the tank - and he lost a large number of his advertisers last year?

"Rock With A Beat" was Liz Kiley's baby and decisions were made not only based on research.

A better example is "Movin". An overly researched format that has spread to too many cities without any real proof, except in one city, that it can be a winner.

Next format for 105.1 will be oldies once K-Earth dumps the format. And that will happen in the next few years since their demos aren't growing any younger. Besides, this town has TOO MANY stations playing oldies right now (and the same damn oldies too). Anyone catch the 70's Weekend on V100. Was great to hear "Fly Like An Eagle" by the Steve Miller Band on V last night.

 

[ercjncpr]

"

It's a hobby for the man. Most of his decisions are based on whim and caprice, he attempts to jump on trends and capture audience when other stations switch formats. Yet he either doesn't know how or refuses to correctly launch his stations. Talent tends to be second-rate, imaging, production value, marketing, etc. is beyond small-market.

So true! KFAC goes dark, 105.1 goes classical, KLAC/XTRA drops standards, all of a sudden 1260/540 has standards, KZLA drops country, 1260/540/105.1 HAS to have country.

 

[sdwulfdawg]

Basically, you need someone with the right signal contour, little or no debt service, and someone who is willing to be happy with $15-$20 million/year in revenue. That is Saul.

Why would he stay in Classical when he admitted that the revenue is in the tank - and he lost a large number of his advertisers last year?

What you do is figure out what is going on, give the sales manager and the sales staff three months to work their asses off, do new and creative promotions.