It's the Same Old Songs

[corporateradiosucks]

Most of us who don't like 'the bill of fare' on a restaurant's menu STOP EATING THERE! The same principle applies to radio stations. If the majority of the tunes (or their constant repetition) turn you off...STOP LISTENING.

Perhaps this is the reason I enjoy 'programming' my lps, cds and other audio sources. I can listen to whom I want whenever I want. No interruptions from a big-voiced 'shotgun announcer' screaming call letters and frequencies. And even better, no repetitious ads about every topic imaginable.

Most portable CD players are very inexpensive. And with a headphone jack, you can listen to whatever you want without driving your co-workers crazy! :

I see your point, and agree, but there's something special about hearing a song you love on the radio and knowing other people are hearing it too. Maybe that sounds overly naive and sentimental, but oh well.

Boss is right on about just because a group likes something, doesn't mean they want it played into the ground. 3WS and Love Shack, I'm looking at you.

 

[pman44]

I started tuning out Brown Eyed Girl about 5 years ago; Maggie May as well. I'm sure everyone has their list of "push the button songs" that they once liked but can't stand to hear again.

Another problem is that so many of the classics were mastered poorly when they were put on CD, so when you hear them in heavy rotation on 3WS, they aren't the same song you loved. The first CD mix of the Stones Satisfaction, for instance, sounds like a totally different song. Supposedly the new Beatles CD's are better mixes.

A third problem is that so many of the stations have really boosted up the bass in their signal (DVE in particular). You have to put the Bass eq all the way down on the car radio just to come close to the classic mix. I like bass and I actually play bass, but I have my pants pulled up to my waist and my car only vibrates after I go through the Taco Bell drive-thru. I like to hear the mid's and the high's.

I think programming is an art and in the best of all worlds, a local art. There are definitely "pittsburgh" songs from the 70's and 80's that should get played regularly on 3WS, but don't (ie The Michael Stanley Band and a few other bands that were big locally but wouldn't make it on the Time/Life best of the 80's collection.) I am hopefull that some time in his third or fourth year in office, after he has solved all of the BIG world problems (healthcare, wall street, the middle east, South Carolina, etc), Obama will move to break up the media monopolies like Clear Channel.

 

[FreddyE1977]

It is clear then that they are going to suffer increasingly from competition with XM-Sirius.
They can slice their programming into verticals (60's, 70's, Christian Garage Punk, etc.) and then go deep into the selection. That is going to draw the people who are really into the music as opposed to those looking for a little background noise. The exception being people who don't have access to it due to cost or location. It's sort of like how you aren't really watching those Saturday infomercial blocks on UHF TV stations if you have cable.

Like all media, radio suffers from the Logan's Run Theory of Marketing. (once you hit a certain age, your money is no good anymore and we are no longer interested in talking to you, Tony Renda and WJAS bedamned!) Not smart in my opinion when you look at the national demographics of the Baby Boom and where it is heading, particularly in Pittsburgh. But I digress.

Also lots and lots of paid consultants who can produce reams of four-color offset printed and bound reports including graphs and spreadsheets, explaining in great detail why the average female 34-40 listener who would listen to 70's music will listen to Fleetwood Mac's "Go Your Own Way", but not "Disco Duck" or "Telephone Man".

Okay, so maybe you don't need an advanced degree in marketing for that one.

If I were in charge of Clear Channel's programming, and an average listener out there assumed that I just loop the first 50 songs I could download the cheapest, I would not take that as a compliment.

 

[Snafu]

When most of the major operators blow up next year is the resulting fallout going to allow programmers to take more chances or will the people who scoop up the stations at firesale prices need to find new revenue so fast that they will be afraid to take any chances?

 

[gr8oldies]

New owners will still have to get and hold an extrememely fickle audience and make revenue. They'll have a bank or investors to pay back. So, no, they won't be tossing a bunch of stiffs on the air.

 

[Boss Radio]

Again, nobody is suggesting they play "stiffs."

This isn't Porky playing flip sides of records he found on some distributor's junk pile.

 

[db59]

I'm not askiing for songs no one has ever heard of, but I'm talking about music that once upona time were hits in the top 40. The reason alot of this music has become "unfamiliar" is because it has been shoved to the playlist basement. You hear "Satisfaction" every day, but not "The Last Time" or "Mother's Little Helper." You hear "One of These Nights" but not "Witchy Woman" or "New Kid in Town". Almost all of the '60's British Invasion Groups like the DC5, Kinks, Animals, Herman's Hermits, have disappeared. So have many of the pop songs from that decade, from artists like Gary Lewis, the 5th Dimension, Gary Puckett, and the Four Seasons. As far as the '50's go, what's wrong with hearing some Buddy Holly, Elvis, Chuck Berry once in a while. As far as the '70's are concerned, where is Abba, Barry Manilow, and the tons of other top 40 songs from that decade. I know I am so sick of hearing "Piano Man" I could scream. The point is that radio programming has become so standardized it's sickening. When these songs were originally out, radio stations played many genres of music together. Look, in 1967, you had the Rolling Stones, Glen Campbell, and Frank Sinatra all sharing the charts together. And to answer another poster, I could listen to "Disco Duck" if it was played. Hey, that song hit #1. What I can't listen to is the same 50-75 songs just played constantly, when the artists on these 50-75 songs had many other hits. Radio doesn't need song research. It needs to listen to it's core audience who are sick of the same music every day.

 

[gr8oldies]

Problem is, the core audience isn't sick of this music. We think they should be, we can't understand why they are not, but by and large, they aren't. Someone in a hair salon is singing along to Billy Joel's "The Longest Time" every day when it comes on, and isn't saying "damn it, I wish they would play "She's Got A Way." If "everyone" is sick of "Sweet Home Alabama" and "Werewolves of London" why was a remake of both of those songs one of the biggest hits of 2008?

Yes, top 40 had a lot of variety in the 60s (and a lot of it was just plain bad, especially once the 70s rolled around). I am one who is not going to try to tell you I loved Bobby Goldsboro and the Rolling Stones equally. No, I hated the MOR and country crossover stuff. The fractionalization of the audience into rock, R&B, country, easy listening, etc. pretty much took care of a bunch of genres on one station. Now that anyone can turn you off within 3 seconds, you can't throw stuff on that at least 2/3 of the audience doesn't like. (I know some will say that 2/3 of teh audience doesn't like anything on the air and want deep cuts, but that's not reality..or if it was they could never agree on which deep cuts).

 

[cingram]

I'm talking about music that once upon a time were hits in the top 40. The reason a lot of this music has become "unfamiliar" is because it has been shoved to the playlist basement.

Rather, the reverse. These songs were "shoved to the playlist basement" because they were no longer popular enough to be played regularly.

You hear "Satisfaction" every day, but not "The Last Time" or "Mother's Little Helper." You hear "One of These Nights" but not "Witchy Woman" or "New Kid in Town".

"Satisfaction" is wildly popular. "The Last Time" is less popular (although I still hear it occasionally). "Mother's Little Helper" is even less popular. As for the Eagles, I still hear plenty of those songs on various stations.

Almost all of the '60's British Invasion Groups like the DC5, Kinks, Animals, Herman's Hermits, have disappeared. So have many of the pop songs from that decade, from artists like Gary Lewis, the 5th Dimension, Gary Puckett, and the Four Seasons. As far as the '50's go, what's wrong with hearing some Buddy Holly, Elvis, Chuck Berry once in a while.

50's and 60's music has gotten too old to draw an audience in a demographic that is attractive to the major FM operators. If you wanted an audience of 55-to-70-year-olds, it would be very effective.

As far as the '70's are concerned, where is Abba, Barry Manilow, and the tons of other top 40 songs from that decade.

ABBA, Barry Manilow, and many other artists from that decade (Randy Vanwarmer, anybody?) have become unhip, and for all intents and purposes, are dead and buried at radio.

Look, in 1967, you had the Rolling Stones, Glen Campbell, and Frank Sinatra all sharing the charts together.

But it isn't 1967, when AM Top 40 was king and FM radio hadn't developed. That was 42 years ago. Audiences have changed and stratified their tastes.

What I can't listen to is the same 50-75 songs just played constantly, when the artists on these 50-75 songs had many other hits. Radio doesn't need song research. It needs to listen to it's core audience who are sick of the same music every day.

You confuse individual tastes with the needs of the mass audience. No station is limiting itself to 50-75 songs. Research, and not opinion, is the key to determining audience tastes. And the "core audience" will never be tired of "Listen To The Music" or "Stairway To Heaven" until they're too old to be demographically relevant.

C.

 

[db59]

My daily dose of Piano Man is playing right now, the long version.

OH JOY!!!!

 

[Parttimer]

I'm talking about music that once upon a time were hits in the top 40. The reason a lot of this music has become "unfamiliar" is because it has been shoved to the playlist basement.

Rather, the reverse. These songs were "shoved to the playlist basement" because they were no longer popular enough to be played regularly.

Plus some of them were probably payola records that got played to death whether people liked them or not,

ABBA, Barry Manilow, and many other artists from that decade (Randy Vanwarmer, anybody?) have become unhip, and for all intents and purposes, are dead and buried at radio.

Which is why WLTJ, which made a living off of that stuff in the 80's and 90's, is now Q92.9....

 

[71dude]

ABBA, Barry Manilow, and many other artists from that decade (Randy Vanwarmer, anybody?) have become unhip, and for all intents and purposes, are dead and buried at radio.

When will the funeral services be held for "Baby Come Back," "Still the One" and "How Much I Feel"? All of those are still in constant rotation.

 

[corporateradiosucks]

ABBA, Barry Manilow, and many other artists from that decade (Randy Vanwarmer, anybody?) have become unhip, and for all intents and purposes, are dead and buried at radio.

Didn't we say that about disco too? Hasn't there been a station in Pgh running disco all Saturday night for the past 20 years or so?

I actually hear quite a bit of ABBA, and Barry's all over WJAS.

 

[cingram]

Didn't we say that about disco too? Hasn't there been a station in Pgh running disco all Saturday night for the past 20 years or so?

I actually hear quite a bit of ABBA, and Barry's all over WJAS.

WJAS appeals to a 70+ demographic. If you're hearing any ABBA short of "Dancing Queen" and perhaps "Waterloo," I'd be very surprised.

As for disco, I lived it intimately at the old 104.7 and a short-lived Friday-night show I hosted on 3WS. By and large disco is a specialty show, not a format. There are a few songs ("Get Down Tonight," for example) that are exceptions.

C.

 

[Boss Radio]

When I've heard 3WS, which is not that often, I've heard an awful lot of Donna Summer.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

I put WJAS on at night to fall asleep or WDUV when I'm in Tampa. On another note, a station can take what was an obscure song and play it till it is overdone like the song about Andy Kauffman played about every hour on WPOI in Tampa. I thought it was really great to hear it again, but now it is in the regular rotation

 

[corporateradiosucks]

Clark, I've been hearing the drums Fernando a heck of a lot more than I need to. There are disco songs scattered all through 3WS, 92.9, WSSH at various times during the day, not just in that Saturday night bloc. My point is that 15-20 years ago, you couldn't have PAID a station to play "Got To Be Real" - now I hear it, if not frequently, not infrequently either. By contrast you never hear the Carpenters or Barry Manilow on those same stations, even though they had songs on the charts at the same time as the disco era.

 

[cingram]

Yes, I forgot about "Fernando."

This is a city where disco wasn't that big, relatively speaking, so I'm surprised by songs like "Got To Be Real" playing regularly. The demographics have shifted enough in twenty or thirty years that a song like that from 1979 no doubt pulls in more of the "right" listeners than, say, many of the still-popular songs from the 60's.

C.

 

[thefalcon]

disco was big on this market

Clarke .. your the greatest and I seldom disagree.. but I was at wamo in 1979 and we owned the market.

jc floyd, del king, jackie johnson, eddie edwards, john anthony.. kevin trower

 

[cingram]

WAMO was, indeed, flying high in 1979. But it wasn't just a disco station and disco as a genre was fading by 1979 anyway (to be followed by a major rock cycle in 1980-82, from which WPEZ, 96KX, and WDVE all benefitted). B-94 brought some R&B back to the Top 40 airwaves in 1981-82, but that was not disco, either. Disco just wasn't as big here as it was in many other cities.

C.