I've gone to the Dark Side

[Chuck]

I guess it was bound to happen, but my station is now being simulcast on a friend’s HD-2 channel. We are both curious to see how this works out. I get increased coverage, and he gives his service area a format that they otherwise would never have. Hopefully it is a win-win situation.

I can tell you that inside his studio, which is located about 8 miles from the 50 KW ERP transmitter site, we had trouble getting the HD signal to decode using a Sangean HDT-1X tuner with a folded dipole antenna. I’m sure it would be fine with an outside antenna. That said, it actually sounds pretty decent.

So far I’ve had one listener tell me he discovered the new addition. Since we are now running a legal ID for the HD-2 along with our usual top of the hour ID, it should be obvious to those who are paying attention, that something has been added. This particular person is a local DX-er, who keeps up with this sort of thing. He’s a nice enough guy, but I don’t believe he is typical of most listeners. So, I guess the big question is, “Is anybody listening?” We’ll see…

 

[tomservo]

Good luck with your simulcast, I hope it's not costing you anything because few will be listening. ;D

That said, a studio must be a nightmare situation for HD because of all the computers and lights and what-not that interfere with the weak signal. I know if I so much as turn my computer monitor on, it blanks out much of the local HD reception unless I move the radio across the room. And these are all 100 kW stations practically within eyesight (~12 mi.)

But to be fair, the monitor also blanks out all the class A's in the area, too.

 

[iyiyi]

Good luck on your venture! I suggest that you seek counsel from Mr. Savage. He may hate HD but he loves radio. He knows how to plan successful programming.

 

[Savage]

Likewise I wish you good luck, Chuck....and I can't help but observe this situation bemusedly, as I might guess you could be, too. After all...why not? It's not like it's costing you anything (at least I think not) and as you say, if it attracts even a few new listeners, more always trumps "the same" or "fewer."

I am shocked about the reception report from your local DXer, however. Hasn't he gotten the memo that HD purveyors view his type as "loser-rec room dweller-dweeby-walking antique-ruinors of Radio's Digital Future?" After all DXers as a group have OPPOSED HD on interference grounds, the horror of it all. How ironic that your one documented listener happens to be one....but then again, HD very seldom accurately relates to the real world much anyway, does it?

 

[nd2023]

There are other people like me out there who would notice a new HD2 station. If your Internet station is popular, it might help sell a few HD radios. An HD2 station that doesn't stream might as well not exist.

It's ironic that the Sony XDRF1HD was sold mostly to DXers. And so has the Insignia portable HD radio.

 

[Chuck]

There are other people like me out there who would notice a new HD2 station. If your Internet station is popular, it might help sell a few HD radios. An HD2 station that doesn't stream might as well not exist.

It's not an Internet radio station. It's a commercial FM. We do have a reasonable on-line listenership as well. Personally, I think the Internet offers a brighter future than HD, but this experiment is not costing me anything other than a little time and effort, so it will be interesting to see how it works.

 

[Chuck]

I am shocked about the reception report from your local DXer, however. Hasn't he gotten the memo that HD purveyors view his type as "loser-rec room dweller-dweeby-walking antique-ruinors of Radio's Digital Future?" After all DXers as a group have OPPOSED HD on interference grounds, the horror of it all. How ironic that your one documented listener happens to be one....but then again, HD very seldom accurately relates to the real world much anyway, does it?

The irony has not escaped me.

 

[nd2023]

Overall, I think HD has helped me identify more DX stations than has taken away DX frequencies. When there's e-skip and I get skip in HD, it's nice that the call letters are shown immediately so I don't have to wait for an ID.

 

[Savage]

Well, that's not true on AM, Nick, where HD has totally screwed the pooch. Large swaths of the AM dial in the Northeast are completely worthless for DXing any more thanks to HD. And in some cases local coverage, well within stations' protected interference-free contour, is being wiped out.

 

[Chuck]

Well, that's not true on AM, Nick, where HD has totally screwed the pooch. Large swaths of the AM dial in the Northeast are completely worthless for DXing any more thanks to HD. And in some cases local coverage, well within stations' protected interference-free contour, is being wiped out.

It is most certainly a disaster for AM. I'm still not convinced that The FM version is worth the grief it causes. In my own case, a co-channel HD-FM causes me problems within my 60 dbu "protected contour." While it doesn't wipe out analog reception, it frequently causes HD radios to switch to the other station's HD signal. The good news is not many people around here have HD radios....

 

[spunker88]

Well, that's not true on AM, Nick, where HD has totally screwed the pooch. Large swaths of the AM dial in the Northeast are completely worthless for DXing any more thanks to HD. And in some cases local coverage, well within stations' protected interference-free contour, is being wiped out.

HD on AM is a joke, I almost think those behind it have the intent of destroying AM broadcasting. HD AM within its own service area will get knocked out during a thunderstorm by lightning discharge. Imagine trying to get your EAS or NOAA weather warning from an HD AM station without relying on the analog fallback. Where is the FCC on this, isn't the warning system supposed to be one of the important services terrestrial broadcasting is supposed to offer.

 

[nd2023]

Well, that's not true on AM, Nick, where HD has totally screwed the pooch. Large swaths of the AM dial in the Northeast are completely worthless for DXing any more thanks to HD. And in some cases local coverage, well within stations' protected interference-free contour, is being wiped out.

It is most certainly a disaster for AM. I'm still not convinced that The FM version is worth the grief it causes. In my own case, a co-channel HD-FM causes me problems within my 60 dbu "protected contour." While it doesn't wipe out analog reception, it frequently causes HD radios to switch to the other station's HD signal. The good news is not many people around here have HD radios....

The solution to that is to downgrade your own FM station to HD. Then the HD carriers will mix and HD radios will receive nothing at all instead of the other station.

That's pretty remarkable that a co-channel station can be heard in HD instead of yours, within your 60 dBu. And there's no interference on analog. What are the 2 stations involved?

 

[tomservo]

HD on AM is a joke, I almost think those behind it have the intent of destroying AM broadcasting. HD AM within its own service area will get knocked out during a thunderstorm by lightning discharge. Imagine trying to get your EAS or NOAA weather warning from an HD AM station without relying on the analog fallback. Where is the FCC on this, isn't the warning system supposed to be one of the important services terrestrial broadcasting is supposed to offer.

Why would you caveat it by saying "without relying on analog fallback"? There are no HD-only stations I know of on AM. Are you referring to the end listener or other stations on the chain? I would think EAS would be analog-only for that very reason.

Frankly I'm not trusting EAS, anyway. So many stations seem to have faulty equipment or don't have it installed, especially in rural areas. And at least the warnings that are broadcast over TV & cable locally seem delayed significantly from the ones broadcast over NOAA weather radio.

The solution to that is to downgrade your own FM station to HD. Then the HD carriers will mix and HD radios will receive nothing at all instead of the other station.

That's pretty remarkable that a co-channel station can be heard in HD instead of yours, within your 60 dBu. And there's no interference on analog. What are the 2 stations involved?

It's certainly not fair to him to have to outlay all that licensing cash and buy expensive equipment just to jam his co-channel neighbor. I figure if the other station's HD is so strong it creeps into his 60 dBu contour then that means the HD system is performing well. Which is a rare thing to admit on this board!

 

[KB1OKL]

It's certainly not fair to him to have to outlay all that licensing cash and buy expensive equipment just to jam his co-channel neighbor. I figure if the other station's HD is so strong it creeps into his 60 dBu contour then that means the HD system is performing well. Which is a rare thing to admit on this board!

It's nothing to do with how strong the station is. It Bothers Other Channels because it takes up half the upper and lower adjacent channel on FM, and takes up the upper and lower channel and a half on AM, a wonderful system built for jamming this IBOC.

 

[Chuck]

That's pretty remarkable that a co-channel station can be heard in HD instead of yours, within your 60 dBu. And there's no interference on analog. What are the 2 stations involved?

Yeah, right. I should spend upwards of $100,000 on HD to "fight back?" That's real progress. You can do your own research. I don't feel like taking on CBS because of a silly message forum.

Oh, in the same geographical area, something raises the noise floor on my analog signal. It may be HD, or it might be something else. I simply don't know.

 

[nd2023]

I noticed that HD can sometimes self-interfere with the analog signal on a non-HD radio if there's multipath. Since multipath is extremely frequency sensitive, the main signal can cancel out and the HD sidebands can phase together and interfere with the main signal. The reason HD is so resistant to multipath is because it's unlikely both sidebands will cancel out in the same spot.

I was half joking about fighting back by downgrading (notice I said downgrading instead of upgrading) your station to HD. It's sad that some stations feel that HD is a "pissing contest". I complained to WPRB 103.3 for causing interference to WKTU 103.5 by going HD, and they just told me that KTU has been causing interference to WPRB for years with HD, so it's equal now, and they also told me that Radio Asia paid for their HD equipment. They said that Clear Channel (owner of WKTU) was trying to suppress the signal of the independent voice of WPRB with their HD interference, and now they're on equal footing.

So there you have it, HD radio is mutually assured destruction. The only people listening to HD radio are the DXers who hate the interference. The consumers are complaining about their unwanted HD radio in their car and are being offered floor mats as compensation. Or they're paying to get the HD reception disabled because it's annoying when the analog and HD aren't synced both in time and audio processing, and the HD drops out often. And of course, the Sony HD radio was selling so badly it was discontinued. The only people buying that radio were DXers. The Gigaware HD radio for iPhone was struggling to sell even at a fire sale price of $20 and then $15, because really, why would people put up with static and dropouts when they can stream the same stations online nationwide without paying for an external accessory. And I must be the only person who bought 4 Insignia portable HD radios because they kept failing.

 

[Chuck]

Well Nick, you're right, the best reason I can see to go HD is to interfere with a station that is interfering with me. I've actualy considered that. ;D As you say , "Mutually Assured Distruction."

As for the Insignia radios, you are three ahead of me. I bought one, but it couldn't pick up more than a couple of analog stations in the parking lot of the Best Buy store. It went right back. I really didn't expect it to pick up any HD in my area, and it didn't, but I was hoping it would at least be a good portable radio.

 

[Darth_vader]

"And I may be the only person who bought 4 Insignia portable Ibiquity receivers because they kept failling."

Through no fault of yours, of course. Uh-huh.

I'm on my second, because my first one disappeared somehow when moving flats. Use/d both daily and never had a problem with either. But then, I don't abuse my equipment either....

 

[tomservo]

Once again I must interject and say that the build quality of Insignia products should not be construed to reflect on the FM HD radio system. I have two, because the first one was defective at analog reception. It's not the fault of the HD scheme, it's the cheap Chinese crap Best Buy sells. I've yet to hear of any hardware issues from in-dash replacement HD radios from JVC or Kenwood, for example. Just the usual "HD doesn't work well in my area" complaints. Which are valid on their own.

 

[nd2023]

"And I may be the only person who bought 4 Insignia portable Ibiquity receivers because they kept failling."

Through no fault of yours, of course. Uh-huh.

I'm on my second, because my first one disappeared somehow when moving flats. Use/d both daily and never had a problem with either. But then, I don't abuse my equipment either....

The first one was just dropped once less than my height and it lost sensitivity. My iPhone has been dropped a few times and it has no problems.
The second one had its screen suddenly stop working.
The third one froze and couldn't be revived.

I'm on my fourth one now. I got the extended warranty on it because I'm pretty sure it will fail within the next 2 years. If anything, the only abuse was dropping my first HD radio, which should have been accounted for in the design. How does my iPhone which is many times more complicated not fail when I drop it.