It seems CBS would rather let old Jack Benny Show masters die instead of letting the Jack Benny Fan Club digitally restore them for free. 2 links: http://themoderatevoice.com/59065/killing-comedic-heritage-cbs-reportedly-seals-some-classic-jack-benny-show-comedy-masters/ and http://techdirt.com/articles/20100118/1050427800.shtml
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JACK BENNY FAN CLUB GETS BAD NEWS FROM CBS
- Thread starter Toledo Eleven
- Start date
...William S. Paley, in life a passionate supporter of both the Museum of Broadcasting and the Museum of Modern Art (BOTH major preservers of film and video), is now spinning like a lathe in his grave...
This is a perfect example of why copyright laws need to be overhauled. The owners of copyrighted material such as TV shows, movies, and music, should be required by law to make the material available in some form, whether it's a release on DVD or CD, a presentation on TV, or an internet download, as a condition of having the copyright renewed. Otherwise they lose any right to sue over copies made by other individuals or companies.
Ultimajock said:
Not to mention the fact that Paley, despite sticking up for Jim Aubrey when he uttered those fatal words, "You're through," was possibly Benny's biggest fan; he lured him from NBC to CBS in 1948 (Benny began his CBS run January 2, 1949, although he had a short run there around 1933, before starting his Sunday-night show).
anotherguy said:
I've been bitching about this for years. A rights holder will hold footage "hostage," never release it commercially, never even have any intention of doing so, and yet sue the pants off of fans who want to see it and share it and circulate "bootleg" copies. If you ask why the material is not released, you usually get the "potential customer base is too small to be profitable" spiel. Well, boo hoo. So, if you can't figure a way to make money from it, why do you even care about fans sharing it or seeing it? If you're not cashing in on it yourself, you're not suffering any financial loss by the practice.
That hypocrisy is best described as a simple case of "sour grapes." To me, it's like that kid in your neighborhood (everybody knew one) who had all sorts of cool toys sitting in his closet that he never played or bothered with, but that he wouldn't let others play with because they're HIS. So there! Nyahhh!
And when it comes to certain shows and artists of merit, it's just wrong to keep the material in a vault. Jack Benny is one of the great comic geniuses of the 20th Century, and his shows are a touchstone of our cultural heritage. They should be available to view by the public for that reason alone. It's almost like we need to have some sort of legal protection to insure access for media similar to the "historical landmark" status for buildings.
Stanislav said:
Everything Stanislav said, and then some.
Stanislav said:
And let me add my agreement, because I've been commenting on this for years, as well -- all of the so-called copyright reform has resulted in copyright terms that are far too lengthy, resulting in a lot of older material becoming caught in a sort of legal black hole. The stuff isn't distributed by the copyright holder because it's not profitable for them to do so, but it can't be freely copied because it's not in the public domain.
Shorter terms or some sort of "distribute or lose" clause is badly needed.
TexasTom said:
Of course, the problem with such a "distribute or lose" clause is defining what constitutes a sufficient degree of distribution. Much as films will sometimes be early-released for one day in a single theater in order to qualify for that year's Oscars, I can see an easy loophole here that could be exploited. They could ship one box of 10 DVDs to some obscure store in Walla Walla, where they would be stocked without fanfare or publicity for a week or so, then recalled, and claim that they had, indeed, technically "distributed" the work in question, and are entitled to renewal of the copyright. You'd have to establish some sort of parameters to verify whether there had been a serious, good faith effort at marketing the work, else rights holders will skate by on technicalities.
BTW, one interesting aspect of the CBS/Benny situation is that the shows in question are actually in the public domain. The sticking point seems to be not that CBS owns the rights to them as far as content, but that they happen to own the (apparently) only existing physical copies of the shows. And allowing them to be digitized and remastered, even with safeguards, opens up the possibility of a copy or copies escaping "into the wild" and thereby being snatched up by anyone who wants to duplicate and sell them, which would be perfectly legal for a PD work. Essentially, CBS just doesn't want any material distributed that they cannot control and profit from, regardless of the copyright status, and as long as they own and control the only physical copies, they are safe. It makes my analogy above of the kid who won't share his toys even more appropriate -- CBS derives zero profit or benefit (except, perhaps, the goodwill involved to fans, which does not figure into corporate bottom lines) from "sharing their toys" even though they aren't playing with them.
Two more takes on the CBS/Benny situation. One from my favorite blogger, Mark Evanier:
http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2010_01_20.html#018399
...and this interesting viewpoint from someone on tvweek.com who seems to imply there's more to this than meets the (CBS) Eye:
http://www.tvweek.com/blogs/tvbizwire/2010/01/cbs-nixes-unearthed-jack-benny.php#comment-100036
http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2010_01_20.html#018399
...and this interesting viewpoint from someone on tvweek.com who seems to imply there's more to this than meets the (CBS) Eye:
http://www.tvweek.com/blogs/tvbizwire/2010/01/cbs-nixes-unearthed-jack-benny.php#comment-100036
I wonder what years these shows are from. The article mentions that they are 16 mm kinescopes. If that is the case they would be from the early 50's. If they are actually "filmed" shows they would be from the mid to late 50's into the 60's. I have always wondered what has happened to these later shows. Even when the show was seen, on CBN's Family channel, for example, they seemed to be very old shows, pretty poor quality and very limited in number. I bought an authorized DVD a few years ago and once again they were of pretty poor quality and were mostly kinescopes, from what I can tell. I know there were some very well produced filmed episodes out there somewhere.
Just a little history here, after Lucy and Desi invented the three camera film shows, everybody reconized the value of high quality of the production for the rerun value. Among them were Burns & Allen and Jack Benny. Seems like everytime you look at a DVD of these shows it's always a pre filmed days.
Just a little history here, after Lucy and Desi invented the three camera film shows, everybody reconized the value of high quality of the production for the rerun value. Among them were Burns & Allen and Jack Benny. Seems like everytime you look at a DVD of these shows it's always a pre filmed days.
The last time I remember seeing a '60s-era filmed Benny show
was one with Johnny Carson from 1963; it may have been on
TVLand back when they would devote a week to rarely-seen
shows. We had a local independent that showed a few kinescopes
that look to be from the 1952-55 era; I remember Dean Martin and
Jerry Lewis on one of them. It also had a live audience, which Benny
did not use in the later years.
was one with Johnny Carson from 1963; it may have been on
TVLand back when they would devote a week to rarely-seen
shows. We had a local independent that showed a few kinescopes
that look to be from the 1952-55 era; I remember Dean Martin and
Jerry Lewis on one of them. It also had a live audience, which Benny
did not use in the later years.
I can't help but think that CBS won't release these Jack Benny shows because they don't want to take the chance of offending some African Americans and others with Rochester's character on the show. Kinda the same reason why Disney will never release Song of the South again, although Rochester was not as nearly stereotypical.
gr8oldies said:
Many are -- don't forget, Benny did TV from 1950-1965, so that's in the neighborhood of 500-600 episodes, give or take. The shows figuring in this current dispute number just a couple dozen or so, but apparently they have never been syndicated or put on video, and probably have not been seen since their original broadcast.
catfishal said:
Rochester was the 'smart' one on the show and Benny, more often than not, the butt of his jokes. Benny was the forerunner of a bunch of sitcoms to come where the "star" was the target. Rochester was anything but stereotypical. It would be a real shame not to have the shows in which these guys were paired available to future generations (and show comedy can be very funny without being off-color).
landtuna said:
Rochester was more stereotypical in the earlier years, especially on radio. Gradually, Benny saw to it that Anderson's character was given more dignity, while still being a funny character.
Makes me wonder -- how did Benny's shows do in the pre-Civil Rights South? Were there complaints about the "uppity" Rochester regularly insulting his boss, both to his face and to others?
UNC-TV ran Benny for a time a few years ago; the shows
were from the 1952-55 period. Even though Benny had a
series from 1950-65, it aired weekly only from 1960 on. So
that would reduce the number of episodes below 500.
I don't know if people in the South complained about Rochester,
but I know that Benny had no problem with station clearances.
were from the 1952-55 period. Even though Benny had a
series from 1950-65, it aired weekly only from 1960 on. So
that would reduce the number of episodes below 500.
I don't know if people in the South complained about Rochester,
but I know that Benny had no problem with station clearances.
In the 90's WKNO PBS 10 in Memphis had a show called TV to Remember on on Saturday nights that had a good amount of Jack Benny shows, along with Burns and Allen and You Bet Your Life. A big part of those were PD episodes that are available on dollar DVDs now. Of course you get what you pay for in quality, but they're still fun to watch.
To me there is no excuse why CBS can't at least make these disputed episodes available online.
To me there is no excuse why CBS can't at least make these disputed episodes available online.
K
kirkiefan
Guest
...yeah,remember watching them on WOSU-TV Columbus.gr8oldies said:
Many of the reruns aired on the old CBN/FAM also included Benny's last season from 1964-65 when he went back to NBC as friday night fare that was brutally killed by CBS' prime time schedule.(Route 66,Rawhide,Gomer Pyle and Twilight Zone) That final season was filmed by Universal/Revue for J&M Productions(Benny's production comapny...as Revue/J&M in the closing credits)..Prior to that, Benny's filmed series in the early 60s for CBS(as a Tuesday evening show) was filmed at Desilu Studios since CBS and Desilu had a partnership filming everything from Danny Thomas,Andy Griffith to Gomer Pyle USMC.
My gut feelings have also told me in recent years that the copyright owners no longer want family fare released to the general public on home video,let alone the ever fledgeling RTN network which is sad.... and (least to say) an insult to the memory of Benny and other great entertainers in an era when it was safe to have your children watch almost anything. The NAB Television Code went out with the 1970s.
The NAB,AMPTP and all of the others are rabid hypocrites controlled by the corporate broadcasting elite.
Frank Zappa's prophetic "I'm The Slime" is now an "in your face" morbid reality.
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