• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Jack Doubters: Beware

Re: STOP. GRASPING. AT. STRAWS. SAM.

> > >
> >
> > My guess is they think with a 1.0 share - they can do
> > $10-$12 million in revenue (not unrealistic with a good
> > sales staff). Format will power ratio well - even as low
> as
> > it is.
>
> The big stations take a disproportionate share of the "good"
> billing. This is why the preponderance of higher power
> ratios is in the top tier of stations. KMZT can barely
> scrape $7 million with a quality image and exclusive format
> and higher numbers than Indie will probably ever get.
>
> I think a limited coverage station with low ratings is
> pretty much capped at $4 to $5 million billing.
> >
> > But, no $1.6 million in profit will not do it.
> >
> > BTW, speaking of revenue, what is the No. 1 Spanish
> station
> > expected to do in 2005? Will KLVE or KSCA do $40 million?
>
>
> Low to mid 30's. The current top 5 status of KLVE and KSCA
> will not impact billings until late in the year, but it is
> nice to be back at the top with two stations. In fact, the
> top 4 25/54 stations in LA are Spanish in the last trend.
> >


That's something I wanted to get to. A lot of people criticize KRTH. They continue to do around $30-$35 million. So they will top most of the Spanish stations. It's sad that the Spanish language dollars aren't what they should be. I know Miami power ratios better. It seems like it has been a little bit at a time on the power ratio growth side.




>
 
Re: STOP. GRASPING. AT. STRAWS. SAM.

Do you suggest they sell they signals, and if so, to who and for how much?

Are you implying that the operating budget for the KDL's is 3 million a year?



> > >
> > As far as "Jack" goes - lets see how it goes after two
> books
> > and see who they share with. Looks like a little bit here
> > and there. "Indie" will do what it does. A 0.8-1.2 share
> is
> > about what it will deliver. No reason why they can't
> convert
> > that to decent billing with good demos.
> >
>
> Indie will get little agecny business, as the numbers are
> too low. No one buys 28 deep...
>
> So, the issue is that they will take mostly local direct
> business, which is lower rate. They could bill around $4
> million at that level of ratings. Even iff they convert 40%
> to BCF, that is a horrible return ona $70 million
> investment.
>
> The stations were bought to try to push Superestrella 97.5
> up into the 2-s where they could get out of the 1-share low
> billing doldrums. It didn't work, and it does not work now.
>
>
> Will Entravision be happy with about a $1 million to $1.6
> million profit on the investment? Not likely. You could get
> more money on a bank savings account.
>
 
Wrong again, dude.

> Mr. censorship,

My name is not "Mr. Censorship". I answer to K.M., although "Mr. Moderator" is acceptable in this context.

It is in that context that I advise you that this comment ...

> If you want to expell me from this board because I don't
> have access to extrap numbers, or don't know that whenever
> Indie goes up it's because of a wobble, and when KROQ goes
> down it's becasue of a wobble, Then you can have a dandy old
> time with your corner of imaginary power. You will have
> shown your utter intolerance for anybody who doesn't see
> things the way you do.

... is a violation of Radio-Info.com rule #5, and on that basis alone the owners of this site -- the people I answer to -- can kill your login anytime they want.

My complaint with you, Sam, is that you refuse to accept reality. It has been explained over and over and over to you, by David E., myself, and several others, why Indie is never going to be as great as you think it will. Every time you jump on the faintest hope that they are improving (and therefore, in your opinion, that we are wrong) and post a "look, I was right" message, you aggravate all of us. As a moderator, my job is to eliminate posts that have the effect of annoying the majority. You don't like that I perform that function? Tough.

Bottom line: People who are nothing but an annoyance don't last at Radio-Info. The owners don't let them hang around.
<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
David E, What is meant by "discreet month"?

You mention this phrase several times recently. Thanks


> KROQ did not take it on the kisser. The discreet month of
> May was about the same level as at least three different
> months in 2004; KROQ wobbles between the 3's and the 4's.
> Wobble ina 1.2 to 1.5 point range is not abnormal in
> individual months.
>
 
Mr Moderator

As a
> moderator, my job is to eliminate posts that have the effect
> of annoying the majority.
> Bottom line: People who are nothing but an annoyance don't
> last at Radio-Info. The owners don't let them hang around.
>
In all due respect, that seems to be YOUR peception, KM.

I can only speak for myself... I am NOT annoyed or aggravated by Sam's remarks.
And if you're worried about ppl being aggravated, you should have a conversation personally with some ppl who post here that view Mr Gleason as a pompous know-it-all. I USED to feel that way, no more as I understand where he is coming from. But some here have innocently posted ideas, or opinions, and have been shot down by David E. And can anyone argue that DE always seems to get the last word in any conversation? Looking at that objectively, would you give the benefit of a doubt and think some here might be annoyed by that? Just an observation from a "customer" of the "owners" of this board who I hope will continue to let me "hang around". Thanks :>)<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by SuperRadioFan on 06/22/05 06:26 PM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: Mr Moderator

> As a
> > moderator, my job is to eliminate posts that have the
> effect
> > of annoying the majority.
> > Bottom line: People who are nothing but an annoyance
> don't
> > last at Radio-Info. The owners don't let them hang
> around.
> >
> In all due respect, that seems to be YOUR peception, KM.

Showing the same due respect, you don't get the e-mails I do from people complaining about Sam.

> I can only speak for myself... I am NOT annoyed or
> aggravated by Sam's remarks.

Lucky you. :)

> And if you're worried about ppl being aggravated, you should
> have a conversation personally with some ppl who post here
> that view Mr Gleason as a pompous know-it-all. I USED to
> feel that way, no more as I understand where he is coming
> from. But some here have innocently posted ideas, or
> opinions, and have been shot down by David E. And can
> anyone argue that DE always seems to get the last word in
> any conversation? Looking at that objectively, would you
> give the benefit of a doubt and think some here might be
> annoyed by that?

I get far fewer e-mails about David than about Sam. I get more e-mails about Glenn than I do about David. I get more e-mails about my own posts than I do about David.

I get more e-mails about Sam than about anyone else.

> Just an observation from a "customer" of
> the "owners" of this board who I hope will continue to let
> me "hang around". Thanks :>)

Observation duly noted. :)
<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Re: and, the point is???

> WOW. Bold. Bravado. Stick your neck out! Make a
> prediction of the future!!!
>
> All very noble but hollow. WHO CARES WHAT ANYBODY PREDICTS?
> What actually happens is all that matters and NOBODY can
> predict the future.

Which is why predictions annoy me so much.
<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Thanks, KM

I appreciate the response, and I must admit, I find myself wondering why anyone would take the time to e-mail you about these kinds of things with all that most ppl have to deal with in their lives. This is just an entertainment/info stop for most of us I presume. On the Angels fan forum, if you get sick and tired of reading a particular poster's comments, you can put that person on 'ignore' and then you are spared reading his/her dribble, unless you want to :>)
 
Re: David E, What is meant by "discreet month"?

> You mention this phrase several times recently. Thanks
>
>
> > KROQ did not take it on the kisser. The discreet month of
> > May was about the same level as at least three different
> > months in 2004; KROQ wobbles between the 3's and the 4's.
> > Wobble ina 1.2 to 1.5 point range is not abnormal in
> > individual months.



Believe he means discrete, not discreet.

A discrete month is distinct, individual and separate from others and examined or studied as a separate unit.
 
trends

Hope you don't mind if we take it a bit further. Arbitrends (and final ratings books) are three month rolling averages. A "discrete" month is simply a single month from that 3 month trend. The three one month trends are then averaged out to give you the current three month Arbitrend.

But, even Arbitron will caution you to not to try and calculate monthly extrapolations because of weighting and other factors that go into the final Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter books.

(NOTE: this is a very non-technical explanation and not taken directly from Arbitron. Just a layman's way of explaining it- hope it makes sense).

>
> A discrete month is distinct, individual and separate from
> others and examined or studied as a separate unit.
>
 
predictions

Well, in truth for some it's fun but in the end it is a pretty useless exercise,
especially the "100% absolute no-doubt-about-it I hate this format and it WILL
fail" rants. You are right- very annoying.

>
> Which is why predictions annoy me so much.
>

> > WOW. Bold. Bravado. Stick your neck out! Make a
> > prediction of the future!!!
e.
 
annoying/Indie

Though you have to admit, according to many, I am pretty annoying.

:eek:}-

>
> Bottom line: People who are nothing but an annoyance don't
> last at Radio-Info. The owners don't let them hang around.
>
 
Re: very nice

> > >
> > > At least KRTH rebounded from a horrible April. Again,
> > > they've been in the format for way too long to start the
>
> > > death watch. Cume still ranks sixth in the market - and
> > > their 25-54 cume is ninth (although not where it used to
>
> > be)
> > > - better than KTWV, KHHT, and KFI - and I hear no death
> > > warnings for them.
> >
> > True, all of it. But agencies don't buy cume. And they
> don't
> > buy the #14 12+ station and the #17 25/54 station.
> > >
> >
> No, my point was, they need to grow their TSL. As with any
> gold-based station - they need to move the TSL up. The
> 300-song playlist, which a lot of people complain about has
> to be an issue. They need to get them to listen longer. Can
> they expand - without losing cume. That is the trick....
>

Their audience is growing older everyday.

Hollywood Hamilton isn't testing well.
The sales people are complaining about the morning show. What Infinity station do I remember that from ONE year ago?

The playlist can't be expanded much due to Jack.

I don't care where their cume is. They are not dominant in any one cell 25-54. WCBS still had a great cume but they blew it up for a reason. The same reason they'll do it to K-Earth. There is NO upside to Infinity for the future of this station.

I see the early signs of death. Just like we saw for Arrow last year.
I give them a year or two, at best
 
Re: David E, What is meant by "discreet month"?

> > You mention this phrase several times recently. Thanks
> >
> >
> > > KROQ did not take it on the kisser. The discreet month
> of
> > > May was about the same level as at least three different
>
> > > months in 2004; KROQ wobbles between the 3's and the
> 4's.
> > > Wobble ina 1.2 to 1.5 point range is not abnormal in
> > > individual months.
>
>
>
> Believe he means discrete, not discreet.

You are right. I gotta' get back to those ESL classes... English spelling is obviously a place I am lacking...
>
> A discrete month is distinct, individual and separate from
> others and examined or studied as a separate unit.

In the case of Arbitron, the ratings company only issues three month averages... rolling averages in fact. But, given access to real month data, you can extrapolate each new month to some degree of accuracy.
>
 
Re: STOP. GRASPING. AT. STRAWS. SAM.

> Do you suggest they sell they signals, and if so, to who and
> for how much?
>
> Are you implying that the operating budget for the KDL's is
> 3 million a year?


I'd say that it costs about $2.5 million to run an LA station on $5 in billing. Remember, in addition to fixed costs, from insurance to payroll to technical, there are varible costs for selling expense that eat up at least the first $0.20 of every dollar billed. LA is a very expensive place to run a radio station, due to the high cost of living, high rents, high CA taxes, etc.

If sold, the stations should be worth from $60 to $100 million right now.

Caveaat: none of us know the exact expenses, but a number here have experience with budgeting for LA radio, at stations large and small, and we can probably get close to a range.
 
Re: STOP. GRASPING. AT. STRAWS. SAM.

> > Do you suggest they sell they signals, and if so, to who
> and
> > for how much?
> >
> > Are you implying that the operating budget for the KDL's
> is
> > 3 million a year?
>
>
> I'd say that it costs about $2.5 million to run an LA
> station on $5 in billing. Remember, in addition to fixed
> costs, from insurance to payroll to technical, there are
> varible costs for selling expense that eat up at least the
> first $0.20 of every dollar billed. LA is a very expensive
> place to run a radio station, due to the high cost of
> living, high rents, high CA taxes, etc.
>
> If sold, the stations should be worth from $60 to $100
> million right now.
>
> Caveaat: none of us know the exact expenses, but a number
> here have experience with budgeting for LA radio, at
> stations large and small, and we can probably get close to a
> range.
>
I'd love to know who could run any kind of competitive station in Los Angeles for $2.5 million??? Unless their sales, GM costs, etc. were absorbed in a cluster and not counted against their bottom line.

Most major stations will have that amount spent in talent and management alone.

And any kind of good marketing budget is going to run you between $500,000 and a $1 million.

I think you could run one for $2.5 million, but it would be hard to compete - and it would probably have inexperienced talent.

Just my 2 cents.-
 
Re: Wrong again, dude.

>
> My complaint with you, Sam, is that you refuse to accept
> reality. It has been explained over and over and over to
> you, by David E., myself, and several others, why Indie is
> never going to be as great as you think it will.



And your supposition that "Indie will never be be as great as you think" is somehow more founded in reality than my observation that Indie's numbers have risen?

<Pinching myself>
 
Re: Mr Moderator

Wow,

I had no idea that I was upsetting so many people because I like a certain radio station and am happy when it shows sign of improvement.
I am curious to know what companies the complainers work for.

It was Indie's birth that brought me to these boards.
I am not ashamed to say that I was happy to see Indie hit the airwaves and that I hope it succedes dispite a poor signal, and is able to continue to serve the listeners who are pasionate about it, and that it continue to have a positive influence on KROQ and the rest of the rock music industry.

I've always been an advocate for the underdog and with KROQ doing every thing they can to stifle the competition, I do get pleasure out of seeing KROQ's numbers drop.

I thank David E for all the education he has provided.









> > As a
> > > moderator, my job is to eliminate posts that have the
> > effect
> > > of annoying the majority.
> > > Bottom line: People who are nothing but an annoyance
> > don't
> > > last at Radio-Info. The owners don't let them hang
> > around.
> > >
> > In all due respect, that seems to be YOUR peception, KM.
>
> Showing the same due respect, you don't get the e-mails I do
> from people complaining about Sam.
>
> > I can only speak for myself... I am NOT annoyed or
> > aggravated by Sam's remarks.
>
> Lucky you. :)
>
> > And if you're worried about ppl being aggravated, you
> should
> > have a conversation personally with some ppl who post here
>
> > that view Mr Gleason as a pompous know-it-all. I USED to
> > feel that way, no more as I understand where he is coming
> > from. But some here have innocently posted ideas, or
> > opinions, and have been shot down by David E. And can
> > anyone argue that DE always seems to get the last word in
> > any conversation? Looking at that objectively, would you
> > give the benefit of a doubt and think some here might be
> > annoyed by that?
>
> I get far fewer e-mails about David than about Sam. I get
> more e-mails about Glenn than I do about David. I get more
> e-mails about my own posts than I do about David.
>
> I get more e-mails about Sam than about anyone else.
>
> > Just an observation from a "customer" of
> > the "owners" of this board who I hope will continue to let
>
> > me "hang around". Thanks :>)
>
> Observation duly noted. :)
>
 
Who would buy and why?

Assuming a buyer knows as much as you do. Why would they invest 60-100 million on a property that will only net them a few million a year?



> > Do you suggest they sell they signals, and if so, to who
> and
> > for how much?
> >
> > Are you implying that the operating budget for the KDL's
> is
> > 3 million a year?
>
>
> I'd say that it costs about $2.5 million to run an LA
> station on $5 in billing. Remember, in addition to fixed
> costs, from insurance to payroll to technical, there are
> varible costs for selling expense that eat up at least the
> first $0.20 of every dollar billed. LA is a very expensive
> place to run a radio station, due to the high cost of
> living, high rents, high CA taxes, etc.
>
> If sold, the stations should be worth from $60 to $100
> million right now.
>
> Caveaat: none of us know the exact expenses, but a number
> here have experience with budgeting for LA radio, at
> stations large and small, and we can probably get close to a
> range.
> <P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by StLouisSam on 06/23/05 04:44 AM.</FONT></P>
 
Sad but true.

>
> I think you could run one for $2.5 million, but it would be
> hard to compete - and it would probably have inexperienced
> talent.
>
> Just my 2 cents.-


That describes Indie exactly.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom