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Jack Doubters: Beware

davideduardo

Moderator/Administrator
Staff member
In the LA trend, issued today, in 25-54, the Jack station, KCBS-FM, which has been on the air for 90 days, has jumped to #6 in the market... and is #2 English language station in that demo.

In the month of May, Jack was #2 in the total market 25-54.
 
very impressive

Actually they jumped to #5 in 25-54 adults!

Careful, David- any success shown will be immediately shot down because of this & that & the other thing <LOL>. The "fluke-monsters" will be out in full force.

Of course, any of us with common sense know it'll take a number of full books to even get a clear idea on most of these stations. But, for KCBS-FM, the first 2 months are fabulous, indeed.

> In the LA trend, issued today, in 25-54, the Jack station,
> KCBS-FM, which has been on the air for 90 days, has jumped
> to #6 in the market... and is #2 English language station in
> that demo.
>
> In the month of May, Jack was #2 in the total market 25-54.
>
 
Re: very impressive

> The "fluke-monsters" will be out in full force.

Now, now. Be nice. :) I don't necessarily think it's a fluke, but I do think the acid test will be a year from now. A lot of All 80's stations put together 4 good books. I've been a skeptic about "Jack" since I first read about it.

Having said that, I must say that I've listened online to Entercom Boston's "Mike" and surprised at how much I liked it.<P ID="signature">______________
Jerry

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts" - late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan</P>
 
Re: very impressive

> Actually they jumped to #5 in 25-54 adults!

6th. You forgot the combo K/Buena, which beats Jack.

> Careful, David- any success shown will be immediately shot
> down because of this & that & the other thing . The
> "fluke-monsters" will be out in full force.
>
> Of course, any of us with common sense know it'll take a
> number of full books to even get a clear idea on most of
> these stations. But, for KCBS-FM, the first 2 months are
> fabulous, indeed.

Weekends, it is #1 25-54! (Extrap, May)
 
Is LA Jack Cannibalizing K-Earth?

> In the LA trend, issued today, in 25-54, the Jack station,
> KCBS-FM, which has been on the air for 90 days, has jumped
> to #6 in the market... and is #2 English language station in
> that demo.
>
> In the month of May, Jack was #2 in the total market 25-54.
>

Joel Hollander said on CNBC Jack on 102.7 or 9.23 would have cannibalized Oldies CBS FM if they did it that way. Since Infinity has both Oldies K-Earth 101.1 and KCBS Jack in LA does Hollander's arugment hold any truth in this LA trend?<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Danfm on 06/21/05 07:37 PM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: Is LA Jack Cannibalizing K-Earth?

> > In the LA trend, issued today, in 25-54, the Jack station,
>
> > KCBS-FM, which has been on the air for 90 days, has jumped
>
> > to #6 in the market... and is #2 English language station
> in
> > that demo.
> >
> > In the month of May, Jack was #2 in the total market
> 25-54.
> >
>
> Joel Hollander said on CNBC Jack on 102.7 or 9.23 would have
> cannibalized Oldies CBS FM if they did it that way. Since
> Infinity has both Oldies K-Earth 101.1 and KCBS Jack in LA
> does Hollander's arugment hold any truth in this LA trend?
>

KRTH is dying on its own. It may hve cannibalized KROQ a bit, but too soon to know as KROQ wobbles a lot month to month... as much as a a share point or more.
 
Jack critics

I totally agree, but I think you know what I mean- no matter how Jack does, those who don't "get it" (in other words, hate) the concept will slam it relentlessly either way. And the truth is: it's going to take a good amount of time to know if it's a hit, a bomb or somwhere in between.

Actually, the MIKE FM in Boston is OK- Entercom's in Portland seems more listenable to me.
>
> Now, now. Be nice. :) I don't necessarily think it's a
> fluke, but I do think the acid test will be a year from now.
> A lot of All 80's stations put together 4 good books. I've
> been a skeptic about "Jack" since I first read about it.
>
> Having said that, I must say that I've listened online to
> Entercom Boston's "Mike" and surprised at how much I liked
> it.
>
> > The "fluke-monsters" will be out in full force.
 
> In the LA trend, issued today, in 25-54, the Jack station,
> KCBS-FM, which has been on the air for 90 days, has jumped
> to #6 in the market... and is #2 English language station in
> that demo.
>
> In the month of May, Jack was #2 in the total market 25-54.
>

Like I said David, LA and New York are two different markets. I am sure Jack will do well for a little while, but you have to remember CBS FM was blown up.<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin</P>
 
Re: Jack critics

> I totally agree, but I think you know what I mean- no matter how Jack does, those who don't "get it" (in other words, hate) the concept will slam it relentlessly either way.

Perhaps some, or even most. I hate the concept as it is often simplistically explained: Large playlist positioned against iPods, with no jocks, plus clever liners. I humbly suggest that anyone who follows that formula is in for disaster, later if not sooner. After listening, I started to think that while those elements are common to Jack stations, they are not the essence of the format.

As appealing as the idea of playing "a little bit of everything" might be to an idealist, a radio station doing so will surely not hold a sizeable audience. Some "glue" has to define it. I'm just not sure what Jack's is yet.

Jack stations give the impression that the music selection is anarchic, but it's not. While listening, I started realizing that while music stations traditionally categorize music only according to genre and era as tested against a given demographic, there are other common threads. If so, there should be others awaiting discovery.

Perhaps I'm overthinking it but I'm not so sure.<P ID="signature">______________
Jerry

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts" - late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan</P>
 
Outside of this neighborhood (this board) people have short memories. Most people will get over the surprise and anger and go on with their lives.

I am not happy about that, but it is what I think is true.

I am sure Jack will do well for a little while, but
> you have to remember CBS FM was blown up.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
Jack critics

I don't get that you're overthinking it at all.

But please remember- almost all of these stations are in start-up mode. IF they just stay the way they are, they won't work long-term. They will likely have to become fully-developed and special attention to keeping the "oh-wow!" in the music. I don't believe most Programmers (apologies to you sharp ones out there) have the aptitude nor will take the time to make this an on-going priority.

>
> Perhaps some, or even most. I hate the concept as it is
> often simplistically explained: Large playlist positioned
> against iPods, with no jocks, plus clever liners. I humbly
> suggest that anyone who follows that formula is in for
> disaster, later if not sooner. After listening, I started to
> think that while those elements are common to Jack stations,
> they are not the essence of the format.
>
> As appealing as the idea of playing "a little bit of
> everything" might be to an idealist, a radio station doing
> so will surely not hold a sizeable audience. Some "glue" has
> to define it. I'm just not sure what Jack's is yet.
>
> Jack stations give the impression that the music selection
> is anarchic, but it's not. While listening, I started
> realizing that while music stations traditionally categorize
> music only according to genre and era as tested against a
> given demographic, there are other common threads. If so,
> there should be others awaiting discovery.
>
> Perhaps I'm overthinking it but I'm not so sure.
>
 
> In the LA trend, issued today, in 25-54, the Jack station,
> KCBS-FM, which has been on the air for 90 days, has jumped
> to #6 in the market... and is #2 English language station in
> that demo.
>
> In the month of May, Jack was #2 in the total market 25-54.
>
True, but how much staying power does it have? I'd bet there's a lot of sampling going on at the moment. Let's see how well it's doing in the 2nd quarter of 2006.
 
> In the LA trend, issued today, in 25-54, the Jack station,
> KCBS-FM, which has been on the air for 90 days, has jumped
> to #6 in the market... and is #2 English language station in
> that demo.
>
> In the month of May, Jack was #2 in the total market 25-54.
>

WOW! And with a big playlist... who would have THOUGHT?????????????

Now, if only other formats would take a hint.
 
> True, but how much staying power does it have? I'd bet
> there's a lot of sampling going on at the moment. Let's see
> how well it's doing in the 2nd quarter of 2006.
>

No kidding. I'm mostly a Classic Rock fan, but used to listen to CBS-FM on occasion; living in Central NJ it never came in all that clear anyway, so it was mostly a car station. I spent about 5 hours in the car yesterday, with significant time within CBS's range, and while I did "sample" them often, I rarely found anything that would make me a regular listener. For now, it's still a preset, but I don't see myself really paying much attention to the station in the long run.

Like the way old computer game from the Dark Ages of the 1990's, I guess I Don't Know Jack after all :)
 
> In the LA trend, issued today, in 25-54, the Jack station,
> KCBS-FM, which has been on the air for 90 days, has jumped
> to #6 in the market... and is #2 English language station in
> that demo.
>
> In the month of May, Jack was #2 in the total market 25-54.

Don't expect that to be indicative of what Jack will do in NYC. For starters, it got off to a horrbile start and became a focus of public controversy, attack and scorn for killing a beloved and still-successful station, something it did NOT do in LA where it replaced a not-too-different earlier iteration of expanded playlist adult hits, the "Arrow" format. And it faces a lot more competition for 25-54 English language music listeners in NYC and suburbs than KCBS-FM did in LA, making its upside potential a lot more limited.

Beyond that, the format has inherent weaknesses uncovered in an Arbitron/Edison study of Jack stations and clones, which will be especially pronounced in a market as competitive for adult music listeners as New York.

Jack gets a lot of initial sampling when it goes on the air. But the Arbitron/Edison study of the format pointed up two real dangers for Jack stations and their cousins/clones in the large-library adult hits realm.

First, TSL for jockless Jack stations is extremely low compared with other music formats, posing a danger to both AQH and eventually to cume down the road. People don't stay with it long if they don't like the overall mix of songs (which on a poorly executed Jack station can sound like jarring train wreck after train wreck). And as a result, Jack stations that stay jockless for any length of time fall after a quick initial spike, usually to a level lower than their format predecessors. And if the music mix is especially awkward, as most New Yorkers expressing an opinion believe it is on 101.1, that fall could be especially fast and hard, given all the alternatives catering to the same basic target demos Jack seeks.

Second, and the flip side of this, the Jack stations that hold initial audience the best after a year on the air are those that either start with a full airstaff of foreground personalities, or phase them in quickly during the first couple of months on the air. CBS-FM needed to do this right out of the box, because (as anyone who remembers the programming theories of Rick Sklar will know) it's the personality who adds value and gives you reason to keep listening through the daypart even if you may not like the song that's playing right now. Jack really needs that MORE than most formats, in order to boost TSL and maintain AQH and cume.

If they want this puppy to finish above about a 1.7 by this time next year (half of what WCBS-FM did in its last trends) then Jack has to get its full staff in place and reach out to make friends with listeners NOW. Otherwise the track record of Jack stations across the country, combined with the special obstacles the format faces in NYC, mean it may soon be time to start talking about the NEXT format for 101.1.
 
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