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Jack down 12+ in trend
- Thread starter Jay_F
- Start date
O
OldiesCat
Guest
Jack down
Horrible the last two months 25-54. Monthlies are not encouraging. WNEW is actually ahead of CBS-FM 25-54.
Embarrassing.
> The question is how is their 25-54? Is it going down too?
>
> WNEW is slowly rising. If current trends continue Mix could
> actually pass up Jack in a couple of months.
>
Horrible the last two months 25-54. Monthlies are not encouraging. WNEW is actually ahead of CBS-FM 25-54.
Embarrassing.
> The question is how is their 25-54? Is it going down too?
>
> WNEW is slowly rising. If current trends continue Mix could
> actually pass up Jack in a couple of months.
>
M
MikeDane
Guest
> The question is how is their 25-54? Is it going down too?
>
> WNEW is slowly rising. If current trends continue Mix could
> actually pass up Jack in a couple of months.
>
I have to be honest. I'm sitting here laughing.
WCBS has dropped 8 places. not a good thing for
the suits.
Mike Dane
WSTB-FM 88.9
www.SundayOlsiesJukebox.com
>
> WNEW is slowly rising. If current trends continue Mix could
> actually pass up Jack in a couple of months.
>
I have to be honest. I'm sitting here laughing.
WCBS has dropped 8 places. not a good thing for
the suits.
Mike Dane
WSTB-FM 88.9
www.SundayOlsiesJukebox.com
M
MLB
Guest
Re: Jack down
Hit the road Jack...... and don't you come back no more
Hit the road Jack...... and don't you come back no more
L
longlivemix105
Guest
WNEW
> WNEW is slowly rising. If current trends continue Mix could
> actually pass up Jack in a couple of months.
>
Thats true. Now just dump a boatload of 80s freestyle dance on 102.7 and we'll be in business
-John
> WNEW is slowly rising. If current trends continue Mix could
> actually pass up Jack in a couple of months.
>
Thats true. Now just dump a boatload of 80s freestyle dance on 102.7 and we'll be in business
-John
D
DiamondJoe
Guest
Another Station Is Also Down...
While everyone is focusing on Jack's current ratings plight, one ratings observation that's at least raising my eyes...
Of the top 5 stations, one of them has actually gone down... And it's the station at the top, WLTW. In fact, they've lost as much as the stations ranked 2-4 have gained.
Many predicted that disgruntled CBS-FM listeners would head to Lite-FM... Apparently that is not the case... Very interesting...<P ID="signature">______________
New York City Radio and TV</P>
While everyone is focusing on Jack's current ratings plight, one ratings observation that's at least raising my eyes...
Of the top 5 stations, one of them has actually gone down... And it's the station at the top, WLTW. In fact, they've lost as much as the stations ranked 2-4 have gained.
Many predicted that disgruntled CBS-FM listeners would head to Lite-FM... Apparently that is not the case... Very interesting...<P ID="signature">______________
New York City Radio and TV</P>
Re: Another Station Is Also Down...
> While everyone is focusing on Jack's current ratings plight,
> one ratings observation that's at least raising my eyes...
>
> Of the top 5 stations, one of them has actually gone down...
> And it's the station at the top, WLTW. In fact, they've lost
> as much as the stations ranked 2-4 have gained.
>
> Many predicted that disgruntled CBS-FM listeners would head
> to Lite-FM... Apparently that is not the case... Very
> interesting...
>
Does anyone thing Lite may tweak the playlist again? <P ID="signature">______________
Check my website www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>
> While everyone is focusing on Jack's current ratings plight,
> one ratings observation that's at least raising my eyes...
>
> Of the top 5 stations, one of them has actually gone down...
> And it's the station at the top, WLTW. In fact, they've lost
> as much as the stations ranked 2-4 have gained.
>
> Many predicted that disgruntled CBS-FM listeners would head
> to Lite-FM... Apparently that is not the case... Very
> interesting...
>
Does anyone thing Lite may tweak the playlist again? <P ID="signature">______________
Check my website www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>
Re: Jack down
> Hit the road Jack...... and don't you come back no more
>
He won't be hitting the road, not for quite a while. We have to remember that Jack hasn't been around long enough to establish itself. Give it a book or two.<P ID="signature">______________
Check my website www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>
> Hit the road Jack...... and don't you come back no more
>
He won't be hitting the road, not for quite a while. We have to remember that Jack hasn't been around long enough to establish itself. Give it a book or two.<P ID="signature">______________
Check my website www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>
Re: Jack down
> > Hit the road Jack...... and don't you come back no more
> >
>
> He won't be hitting the road, not for quite a while. We have
> to remember that Jack hasn't been around long enough to
> establish itself. Give it a book or two.
>
Indeed, and couple that with the fact that it's sort of the radio analog of selling popcorn. The raw materials don't cost a whole lot. I'm guessing that was part of the appeal that has caused Jack to spread like wildfire nationally.
I just think it will take some time before the suits realize that in a market like NYC, it's the top line that matters a lot more than the money that can be saved from cost-cutting.
> > Hit the road Jack...... and don't you come back no more
> >
>
> He won't be hitting the road, not for quite a while. We have
> to remember that Jack hasn't been around long enough to
> establish itself. Give it a book or two.
>
Indeed, and couple that with the fact that it's sort of the radio analog of selling popcorn. The raw materials don't cost a whole lot. I'm guessing that was part of the appeal that has caused Jack to spread like wildfire nationally.
I just think it will take some time before the suits realize that in a market like NYC, it's the top line that matters a lot more than the money that can be saved from cost-cutting.
Re: Jack down
In most markets, Jack or Bob has shot to the top and then critics state that it won't last after the novelty has worn off. What is this crap about waiting and giving them more time to attract listeners? That is usually said about listeners leaving after a while, not coming to them.
And Jack and Bob have started in many markets on frequencies that were oldies.
> He won't be hitting the road, not for quite a while. We have
> to remember that Jack hasn't been around long enough to
> establish itself. Give it a book or two.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
In most markets, Jack or Bob has shot to the top and then critics state that it won't last after the novelty has worn off. What is this crap about waiting and giving them more time to attract listeners? That is usually said about listeners leaving after a while, not coming to them.
And Jack and Bob have started in many markets on frequencies that were oldies.
> He won't be hitting the road, not for quite a while. We have
> to remember that Jack hasn't been around long enough to
> establish itself. Give it a book or two.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
Re: Jack down
> In most markets, Jack or Bob has shot to the top and then
> critics state that it won't last after the novelty has worn
> off. What is this crap about waiting and giving them more
> time to attract listeners? That is usually said about
> listeners leaving after a while, not coming to them.
>
> And Jack and Bob have started in many markets on frequencies
> that were oldies.
>
>
I agree. Every format is different, some take awhile to grow. But this is one that has seen instant results in several markets. If it stays at this level for the next few months, it probably won't get any better. Although I'm sure Infinity will give it plenty of time.
As others have speculated, Jack might have gotten off to a better start in NY on another frequency. Even some listeners who might like Jack are biased to hate it because it took the place of a loved station that had a special place in peoples hearts.
>
>
>
>
> > He won't be hitting the road, not for quite a while. We
> have
> > to remember that Jack hasn't been around long enough to
> > establish itself. Give it a book or two.
> >
>
> In most markets, Jack or Bob has shot to the top and then
> critics state that it won't last after the novelty has worn
> off. What is this crap about waiting and giving them more
> time to attract listeners? That is usually said about
> listeners leaving after a while, not coming to them.
>
> And Jack and Bob have started in many markets on frequencies
> that were oldies.
>
>
I agree. Every format is different, some take awhile to grow. But this is one that has seen instant results in several markets. If it stays at this level for the next few months, it probably won't get any better. Although I'm sure Infinity will give it plenty of time.
As others have speculated, Jack might have gotten off to a better start in NY on another frequency. Even some listeners who might like Jack are biased to hate it because it took the place of a loved station that had a special place in peoples hearts.
>
>
>
>
> > He won't be hitting the road, not for quite a while. We
> have
> > to remember that Jack hasn't been around long enough to
> > establish itself. Give it a book or two.
> >
>
Re: Jack down
> > > Hit the road Jack...... and don't you come back no more
> > >
> >
> > He won't be hitting the road, not for quite a while. We
> have
> > to remember that Jack hasn't been around long enough to
> > establish itself. Give it a book or two.
> >
> Indeed, and couple that with the fact that it's sort of the
> radio analog of selling popcorn. The raw materials don't
> cost a whole lot. I'm guessing that was part of the appeal
> that has caused Jack to spread like wildfire nationally.
>
> I just think it will take some time before the suits realize
> that in a market like NYC, it's the top line that matters a
> lot more than the money that can be saved from cost-cutting.
>
I admit, I like Jack sometimes. The music variety is great and some liners are funny, but radio is supposed to have jocks, contests, information, etc.<P ID="signature">______________
Check my website www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>
> > > Hit the road Jack...... and don't you come back no more
> > >
> >
> > He won't be hitting the road, not for quite a while. We
> have
> > to remember that Jack hasn't been around long enough to
> > establish itself. Give it a book or two.
> >
> Indeed, and couple that with the fact that it's sort of the
> radio analog of selling popcorn. The raw materials don't
> cost a whole lot. I'm guessing that was part of the appeal
> that has caused Jack to spread like wildfire nationally.
>
> I just think it will take some time before the suits realize
> that in a market like NYC, it's the top line that matters a
> lot more than the money that can be saved from cost-cutting.
>
I admit, I like Jack sometimes. The music variety is great and some liners are funny, but radio is supposed to have jocks, contests, information, etc.<P ID="signature">______________
Check my website www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>
O
OldiesCat
Guest
Jack reality
That is unusual- in almost every case, it's more difficult for a new station to get a foothold, to change listeners' minds. Most radio hacks think new format=
quick success. Most radio PROFESSIONALS understand that the "new" station in town is always at a disadvantage compare to the incumbent and that it takes a lot of time, resources and sweat to make the station a success.
Despite all the talk about JACK, many in the markets where they've signed-on STILL have not heard of them or tried them out. So, yes- this "crap" about giving them time would be correct. JACK was never, EVER sold as the "overnight success" answer and was done for the long run, not for this or the next book. The naysayers love saying this so they can then trash the format early in the game before they have any chance, but radio format development is not a sprint- it's a marathon.
> In most markets, Jack or Bob has shot to the top and then
> critics state that it won't last after the novelty has worn
> off. What is this crap about waiting and giving them more
> time to attract listeners? That is usually said about
> listeners leaving after a while, not coming to them.
"in many markets on oldies frequencies"? Really- NY, Chicago, Indy & Baltimore are the only stations out of all who've gone V.H. that came from Oldies.
> And Jack and Bob have started in many markets on frequencies that were oldies.
That is unusual- in almost every case, it's more difficult for a new station to get a foothold, to change listeners' minds. Most radio hacks think new format=
quick success. Most radio PROFESSIONALS understand that the "new" station in town is always at a disadvantage compare to the incumbent and that it takes a lot of time, resources and sweat to make the station a success.
Despite all the talk about JACK, many in the markets where they've signed-on STILL have not heard of them or tried them out. So, yes- this "crap" about giving them time would be correct. JACK was never, EVER sold as the "overnight success" answer and was done for the long run, not for this or the next book. The naysayers love saying this so they can then trash the format early in the game before they have any chance, but radio format development is not a sprint- it's a marathon.
> In most markets, Jack or Bob has shot to the top and then
> critics state that it won't last after the novelty has worn
> off. What is this crap about waiting and giving them more
> time to attract listeners? That is usually said about
> listeners leaving after a while, not coming to them.
"in many markets on oldies frequencies"? Really- NY, Chicago, Indy & Baltimore are the only stations out of all who've gone V.H. that came from Oldies.
> And Jack and Bob have started in many markets on frequencies that were oldies.
O
OldiesCat
Guest
Jack down
The "instant results" you see are the exception, not the rule.
>
> I agree. Every format is different, some take awhile to
> grow. But this is one that has seen instant results in
> several markets. If it stays at this level for the next few
> months, it probably won't get any better. Although I'm sure
> Infinity will give it plenty of time.
But in most cases, JACK replaced a d-o-g. go look it up.
> As others have speculated, Jack might have gotten off to a
> better start in NY on another frequency. Even some listeners
> who might like Jack are biased to hate it because it took
> the place of a loved station that had a special place in
> peoples hearts.
The "instant results" you see are the exception, not the rule.
>
> I agree. Every format is different, some take awhile to
> grow. But this is one that has seen instant results in
> several markets. If it stays at this level for the next few
> months, it probably won't get any better. Although I'm sure
> Infinity will give it plenty of time.
But in most cases, JACK replaced a d-o-g. go look it up.
> As others have speculated, Jack might have gotten off to a
> better start in NY on another frequency. Even some listeners
> who might like Jack are biased to hate it because it took
> the place of a loved station that had a special place in
> peoples hearts.
O
OldiesCat
Guest
$ $ $ $ $
Geez, here we go again.
JACK was not done as a cost-cutting move. Has it ever occoured to you the amount of money it's costing to pay off existing talent contracts PLUS the revenue you automatically lose when you make a format flip? PLUS the cost of marketing an all-new product? PLUS the cost of resources to actually execute the flip?
Of course not, because it's easier on the brain to think "corporate consultants anti-DJ conspiracy".
>
> I just think it will take some time before the suits realize
> that in a market like NYC, it's the top line that matters a
> lot more than the money that can be saved from cost-cutting.
>
Geez, here we go again.
JACK was not done as a cost-cutting move. Has it ever occoured to you the amount of money it's costing to pay off existing talent contracts PLUS the revenue you automatically lose when you make a format flip? PLUS the cost of marketing an all-new product? PLUS the cost of resources to actually execute the flip?
Of course not, because it's easier on the brain to think "corporate consultants anti-DJ conspiracy".
>
> I just think it will take some time before the suits realize
> that in a market like NYC, it's the top line that matters a
> lot more than the money that can be saved from cost-cutting.
>
Re: $ $ $ $ $
> Has it ever
> occoured to you the amount of money it's costing to pay off
> existing talent contracts PLUS the revenue you automatically
> lose when you make a format flip? PLUS the cost of
> marketing an all-new product? PLUS the cost of resources to
> actually execute the flip?
That sounds like every other format flip from the past 40 years, yet jocks were eventually added in short order. I don't think that's going to happen in LA and Dallas, given the early success they've achieved without jocks. The rest of the Infinity JACKS are a crapshoot right now.
Just pointing out a flaw in your logic.
> Of course not, because it's easier on the brain to think
> "corporate consultants anti-DJ conspiracy".
>
When pure business decsions influence programming, the product suffers. Just ask CCU, who is currently feeling the pain involved in reducing spot loads after years of pimping out their product.
> Has it ever
> occoured to you the amount of money it's costing to pay off
> existing talent contracts PLUS the revenue you automatically
> lose when you make a format flip? PLUS the cost of
> marketing an all-new product? PLUS the cost of resources to
> actually execute the flip?
That sounds like every other format flip from the past 40 years, yet jocks were eventually added in short order. I don't think that's going to happen in LA and Dallas, given the early success they've achieved without jocks. The rest of the Infinity JACKS are a crapshoot right now.
Just pointing out a flaw in your logic.
> Of course not, because it's easier on the brain to think
> "corporate consultants anti-DJ conspiracy".
>
When pure business decsions influence programming, the product suffers. Just ask CCU, who is currently feeling the pain involved in reducing spot loads after years of pimping out their product.
Re: Jack reality
> That is unusual- in almost every case, it's more difficult
> for a new station to get a foothold, to change listeners'
> minds. Most radio hacks think new format=
> quick success. Most radio PROFESSIONALS understand that the
> "new" station in town is always at a disadvantage compare to
> the incumbent and that it takes a lot of time, resources and
> sweat to make the station a success.
>
> Despite all the talk about JACK, many in the markets where
> they've signed-on STILL have not heard of them or tried them
> out. So, yes- this "crap" about giving them time would be
> correct. JACK was never, EVER sold as the "overnight
> success" answer and was done for the long run, not for this
> or the next book. The naysayers love saying this so they
> can then trash the format early in the game before they have
> any chance, but radio format development is not a sprint-
> it's a marathon.
>
> > In most markets, Jack or Bob has shot to the top and then
> > critics state that it won't last after the novelty has
> worn
> > off. What is this crap about waiting and giving them more
>
> > time to attract listeners? That is usually said about
> > listeners leaving after a while, not coming to them.
>
> "in many markets on oldies frequencies"? Really- NY,
> Chicago, Indy & Baltimore are the only stations out of all
> who've gone V.H. that came from Oldies.
Add Nashville to the list, but another oldies station came anyway. Rock is another format losing to Jack. A few Adult Contemporary and Hot AC stations went Jack also. So, it depends on the market really.
> > And Jack and Bob have started in many markets on
> frequencies that were oldies.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Check my website www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>
> That is unusual- in almost every case, it's more difficult
> for a new station to get a foothold, to change listeners'
> minds. Most radio hacks think new format=
> quick success. Most radio PROFESSIONALS understand that the
> "new" station in town is always at a disadvantage compare to
> the incumbent and that it takes a lot of time, resources and
> sweat to make the station a success.
>
> Despite all the talk about JACK, many in the markets where
> they've signed-on STILL have not heard of them or tried them
> out. So, yes- this "crap" about giving them time would be
> correct. JACK was never, EVER sold as the "overnight
> success" answer and was done for the long run, not for this
> or the next book. The naysayers love saying this so they
> can then trash the format early in the game before they have
> any chance, but radio format development is not a sprint-
> it's a marathon.
>
> > In most markets, Jack or Bob has shot to the top and then
> > critics state that it won't last after the novelty has
> worn
> > off. What is this crap about waiting and giving them more
>
> > time to attract listeners? That is usually said about
> > listeners leaving after a while, not coming to them.
>
> "in many markets on oldies frequencies"? Really- NY,
> Chicago, Indy & Baltimore are the only stations out of all
> who've gone V.H. that came from Oldies.
Add Nashville to the list, but another oldies station came anyway. Rock is another format losing to Jack. A few Adult Contemporary and Hot AC stations went Jack also. So, it depends on the market really.
> > And Jack and Bob have started in many markets on
> frequencies that were oldies.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Check my website www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>
Re: $ $ $ $ $
> Geez, here we go again.
>
> JACK was not done as a cost-cutting move. Has it ever
> occoured to you the amount of money it's costing to pay off
> existing talent contracts PLUS the revenue you automatically
> lose when you make a format flip? PLUS the cost of
> marketing an all-new product? PLUS the cost of resources to
> actually execute the flip?
>
Gee, gosh, golly, no! Not one of those things has ever crossed my mind. I am glad I have someone else to point out the errors of my thinking!
> Of course not, because it's easier on the brain to think
> "corporate consultants anti-DJ conspiracy".
>
Now that really didn't cross my mind, I don't think. Is that really what I was thinking? I wonder. Hmm...
> Geez, here we go again.
>
> JACK was not done as a cost-cutting move. Has it ever
> occoured to you the amount of money it's costing to pay off
> existing talent contracts PLUS the revenue you automatically
> lose when you make a format flip? PLUS the cost of
> marketing an all-new product? PLUS the cost of resources to
> actually execute the flip?
>
Gee, gosh, golly, no! Not one of those things has ever crossed my mind. I am glad I have someone else to point out the errors of my thinking!
> Of course not, because it's easier on the brain to think
> "corporate consultants anti-DJ conspiracy".
>
Now that really didn't cross my mind, I don't think. Is that really what I was thinking? I wonder. Hmm...
Re: Jack down
How about WGLD/Indianapolis? They were certainly not a d-o-g and they DID get instant results. They did not go down at all (as many expected they would), I would guess their demos improved as well.
Maybe the Indy Jack is an exception, a station that had an especially smooth transition. Then it's fair to say the NY Jack had an especially rough transition. I still say it would have done better on another frequency. In other markets, Jack doesn't come with negative baggage, it's a fresh new format and approach to radio. In NY, in many listeners minds Jack represents evil.
The "instant results" you see are the exception, not the
> rule.
>
> >
> > I agree. Every format is different, some take awhile to
> > grow. But this is one that has seen instant results in
> > several markets. If it stays at this level for the next
> few
> > months, it probably won't get any better. Although I'm
> sure
> > Infinity will give it plenty of time.
>
> But in most cases, JACK replaced a d-o-g. go look it up.
>
>
> > As others have speculated, Jack might have gotten off to a
>
> > better start in NY on another frequency. Even some
> listeners
> > who might like Jack are biased to hate it because it took
> > the place of a loved station that had a special place in
> > peoples hearts.
>
How about WGLD/Indianapolis? They were certainly not a d-o-g and they DID get instant results. They did not go down at all (as many expected they would), I would guess their demos improved as well.
Maybe the Indy Jack is an exception, a station that had an especially smooth transition. Then it's fair to say the NY Jack had an especially rough transition. I still say it would have done better on another frequency. In other markets, Jack doesn't come with negative baggage, it's a fresh new format and approach to radio. In NY, in many listeners minds Jack represents evil.
The "instant results" you see are the exception, not the
> rule.
>
> >
> > I agree. Every format is different, some take awhile to
> > grow. But this is one that has seen instant results in
> > several markets. If it stays at this level for the next
> few
> > months, it probably won't get any better. Although I'm
> sure
> > Infinity will give it plenty of time.
>
> But in most cases, JACK replaced a d-o-g. go look it up.
>
>
> > As others have speculated, Jack might have gotten off to a
>
> > better start in NY on another frequency. Even some
> listeners
> > who might like Jack are biased to hate it because it took
> > the place of a loved station that had a special place in
> > peoples hearts.
>
I
infinitybites
Guest
Re: Another Station Is Also Down...
I, for one, did not move over to Lite-FM after WCBS was blown up. I erased 101.1 from my car preset and then started listening to Q104.3. I'm in the lower end of the coveted age demographic, which may explain why I opted for classic rock instead of light stuff. Either way, I'm happy to see Jack-FM struggling.
> While everyone is focusing on Jack's current ratings plight,
> one ratings observation that's at least raising my eyes...
>
> Of the top 5 stations, one of them has actually gone down...
> And it's the station at the top, WLTW. In fact, they've lost
> as much as the stations ranked 2-4 have gained.
>
> Many predicted that disgruntled CBS-FM listeners would head
> to Lite-FM... Apparently that is not the case... Very
> interesting...
>
I, for one, did not move over to Lite-FM after WCBS was blown up. I erased 101.1 from my car preset and then started listening to Q104.3. I'm in the lower end of the coveted age demographic, which may explain why I opted for classic rock instead of light stuff. Either way, I'm happy to see Jack-FM struggling.
> While everyone is focusing on Jack's current ratings plight,
> one ratings observation that's at least raising my eyes...
>
> Of the top 5 stations, one of them has actually gone down...
> And it's the station at the top, WLTW. In fact, they've lost
> as much as the stations ranked 2-4 have gained.
>
> Many predicted that disgruntled CBS-FM listeners would head
> to Lite-FM... Apparently that is not the case... Very
> interesting...
>
- Status
- This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.