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JACK-FM and Its Future.

K

kevinsealy

Monday October 17 the Summer Arbitron Book will be released and all eyes will be on the station formerly known as WCBS-FM.

Is the worst yet to come for JACK-FM, especially if you factor in that WLTW will get a boost from post summer vacation listeners and that could change the landscape a little.

And as I've mentioned in a previous post that adult listeners to music stations also like to hear traffic and weather updates besides listening to personality radio.JACK-FM which some may say sounds like a music jutebox could be on the losing side.

Or could we see JACK-FM's ratings level off not dropping much lower than what they are now.

It was reported that the station has seen an increase in its cume in August. But has that really translated to an increase in their share?You have to factor in that their cume may have gone up, but the TSL may be down which in a way is subtracting from their gain in the number of listeners.


Thanks,
Kevin L. Sealy



<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin L. Sealy</P>
 
> Monday October 17 the Summer Arbitron Book will be released
> and all eyes will be on the station formerly known as
> WCBS-FM.
>
> Is the worst yet to come for JACK-FM, especially if you
> factor in that WLTW will get a boost from post summer
> vacation listeners and that could change the landscape a
> little.
>
> And as I've mentioned in a previous post that adult
> listeners to music stations also like to hear traffic and
> weather updates besides listening to personality
> radio.JACK-FM which some may say sounds like a music jutebox
> could be on the losing side.
>
> Or could we see JACK-FM's ratings level off not dropping
> much lower than what they are now.
>
> It was reported that the station has seen an increase in its
> cume in August. But has that really translated to an
> increase in their share?You have to factor in that their
> cume may have gone up, but the TSL may be down which in a
> way is subtracting from their gain in the number of
> listeners.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Kevin L. Sealy
>


My guess is no matter how poorly Jack does on Monday, Infinity will be very patient. They invested too much in Jack, especially pride, to give up so easily. I also think the fact that Jack is doing well in many different markets will give Infinity hope that it will eventually catch on in NYC.
 
> My guess is no matter how poorly Jack does on Monday,
> Infinity will be very patient. They invested too much in
> Jack, especially pride, to give up so easily. I also think
> the fact that Jack is doing well in many different markets
> will give Infinity hope that it will eventually catch on in
> NYC.
>

Well.
A failure is failure, a loss is a loss.
If it was so much about money before when they flipped to Jack, I don't see why they would continue to lose even more money and keep it around, if they indeed ivested so much in the first place. Logic dictates, that if money mattered before, it still does.

The bigger question is, do they have some kind of contractual obligation with the consultant to carry the Jack name for an extended period of time. If so, would not be surpised (not speculating), to see 102.7 Jack FM, with some kind of tweaked return of the CBS FM name to 101.1 . But don't expect the same kind of CBS FM logo if it does. I wouldn't be suprised if this one even had a disco ball beind it!
 
So Garrett your guesing that 102.7 will go Jack FM and CBSFM 101.1 will return but as a disco type station? if so and the logo had a disco ball i vote for the red cbsfm logo with a disco ball hanging down or behind it. That would actually look good plus the red logo was the only logo that 101.1 had that represented and said WCBSFM. the new logo they currently use on wcbsfm.com and used since 9/04 didn't really represent CBSFM too good in my opinion, the red logo was on that station for many years and best represented them and if cbsfm returned even as disco and with the call letters on air again the red logo should be back with it.

> Well.
> A failure is failure, a loss is a loss.
> If it was so much about money before when they flipped to
> Jack, I don't see why they would continue to lose even more
> money and keep it around, if they indeed ivested so much in
> the first place. Logic dictates, that if money mattered
> before, it still does.
>
> The bigger question is, do they have some kind of
> contractual obligation with the consultant to carry the Jack
> name for an extended period of time. If so, would not be
> surpised (not speculating), to see 102.7 Jack FM, with some
> kind of tweaked return of the CBS FM name to 101.1 . But
> don't expect the same kind of CBS FM logo if it does. I
> wouldn't be suprised if this one even had a disco ball beind
> it!
>
 
The new CBS/Jack-FM logo!

country101lg.jpg


<P ID="signature">______________
noiboc.jpg

"This is the New York Emergency Broadcast System satellite channel. They took the crosstown bus."</P>
 
Re: The new CBS/Jack-FM logo!

At Least they could rehire Randy Davis, Dan Taylor and Dan Daniel<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Danfm on 10/15/05 03:59 AM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: The new CBS/Jack-FM logo!

Even though NYC needs a country station as well as an oldies station i cannot picture country on CBSFM.
> I LIKE IT, I LIKE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> LOL!
>
 
Re: The new CBS/Jack-FM logo!

The "Jack" experiment on CBS-FM presents Infinity with a dilemma. Obviously, it was not a smashing success. Generally, Jack and it's clones debut big. This done didn't. Plus, there was the great listener (and I suspect advertiser) backlash. If this were a lower profile market, they would probably have switched back to the previousl format (or had that contingency locked and loaded once the fall book came out). Problem is, if you admit defeat in New York, it is such a high profile failure that egos will get in the way.

It took Ford three years to kill the Edsel. It took just months for Coca-Cola to kill "new" Coke.

Here's what they should do. Start expanding their "play anything" playlist to cover more hits of the 70's. Maybe stunt with Christmas music in December. The day after Christmas, bring back the "new" CBS-FM. Take it back to where it was pre-switch, but with more 70's on the playlist. Update the presentation. Get some new jingles with more of a 70's/80's sound (get re-sings of the ones that were on the air on WABC and WNBC for familiarity). Over a 6-9 month period, start evolving the format to where it should have evolved to in the first place. Quietly drop a lot of the 60's records from the rotation and start salting in more 80's. Continue to evolve the station. Use a 40 year old as the moving target and in any given year play the music that was on the radio when that year's 35-45 year old was between the the ages of 12 and 22.
Using that formula, the music should be mainly that from 1972-1990 with the heaviest rotation of songs being in the middle... about 1977-1985.

There would still be some room to salt in a few "evergreen" songs from the 60's and even 50's... plus they could do maybe a "60's Saturday Night" and a Sunday "Doo-Wop" show for us old-timers.

I would also suggest dropping the "oldies" monikker. You can say things like "The Best Music of All Time" or even "Music Radio" (which was used by WABC in the 70's and Z-100 in the 80's). Keep it fun, keep it well produced, and keep it fresh.

When the Oldies format debuted in 1972, the oldest song on their playlist was only 18 years old... and they played songs that were only a year old.... even some currents ("Future Gold") once or twice an hour. As of their demise, the NEWEST song on the playlistwas probably 26 years old, and the core songs were 35-40 years old.

If the Oldies format does not continue to evolve and follow that 40-year old, it will go the way of the Nostalgia/Standards format. Every generation has its fond musical memories which go back to their high school and college days. Programmers just need to make sure that the oldies don't get too old.
 
Two things on Jack in NYC:

* they shot themselves in the foot with a botched beginning. You get one chance
to make a great first impression- they did not.

* They made headlines by having Jack replace one of NYC's beloved radio stations and could have helped themselves by returning Oldies to another frequency to build some goodwill- they did not.

Now, it's too late to go back. If they were to cut their losses and drop Jack in NYC, it would make some Oldies fans happy but the hit they'd take by not showing faith and commitment in the format would be even worse, long-term.

Still say they should put Oldies (60s & 70s) on another Viacom freqency as soon as they can and salvage a self-inflicted ugly situation.
 
JACK-FM & Oldies

It would be stupid to do that- too confusing for the listeners and the rep would be that Jack was relegated to the format-of-the-year frequency in the market and soon forgotten as a potential "player".

Keep Jack on 101.1 and be patient and put Oldies on 102.7 (not disco but a good pop/rock 60s-70s hits station) and win the hearts & minds of New Yorkers AND give Jack a chance to build an audience.


> So Garrett your guesing that 102.7 will go Jack FM and CBSFM
> 101.1 will return but as a disco type station? if so and the
> logo had a disco ball i vote for the red cbsfm logo with a
> disco ball hanging down or behind it. That would actually
> look good plus the red logo was the only logo that 101.1 had
> that represented and said WCBSFM. the new logo they
> currently use on wcbsfm.com and used since 9/04 didn't
> really represent CBSFM too good in my opinion, the red logo
> was on that station for many years and best represented them
> and if cbsfm returned even as disco and with the call
> letters on air again the red logo should be back with it.
 
> Two things on Jack in NYC:
>
> * they shot themselves in the foot with a botched beginning.
> You get one chance
> to make a great first impression- they did not.
>
> * They made headlines by having Jack replace one of NYC's
> beloved radio stations and could have helped themselves by
> returning Oldies to another frequency to build some
> goodwill- they did not.
>
> Now, it's too late to go back. If they were to cut their
> losses and drop Jack in NYC, it would make some Oldies fans
> happy but the hit they'd take by not showing faith and
> commitment in the format would be even worse, long-term.
>
> Still say they should put Oldies (60s & 70s) on another
> Viacom freqency as soon as they can and salvage a
> self-inflicted ugly situation.
>




OldiesCat:

I've mentioned this on the NYRMB that some new stations in the past had a strong or decent showing when they made their debut.

When Disco 92 WKTU signed on in the summer of 1978 they had a double digit share in their first book. But over a seven year period, their numbers fell to a mediocre rating and WXRK-Rock came on the scene in the summer of 1985.

WRKS-FM 98.7 started playing Classic Soul & Smooth R&B in the winter of 1995 and their ratings went to the top.

When something new is promoted, people are excited about it which is why Disco 92, WAPP (The Apple), Hot 103.5 WQHT and (Jammin 105.1 FM) WTJM all had impressive numbers in their first book.

But with all the pubicity that JACK-FM has gotton since June 3, 2005, the listening audience to the station at 101.1FM has gone elsewhere.




Thanks,
Kevin L. Sealy<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin L. Sealy</P>
 
No Future!(to quote the Sex Pistols

Jack is WACK and there's no big comeback; this is NEW YORK; we don't forgive & we don't forget!By the way,don't forget about Z 100 going from Worst to First in one ratings book!(Listening to shannon's "True Oldies" on line right now,and luvin it!)
> > Two things on Jack in NYC:
> >
> > * they shot themselves in the foot with a botched
> beginning.
> > You get one chance
> > to make a great first impression- they did not.
> >
> > * They made headlines by having Jack replace one of NYC's
> > beloved radio stations and could have helped themselves
> by
> > returning Oldies to another frequency to build some
> > goodwill- they did not.
> >
> > Now, it's too late to go back. If they were to cut their
> > losses and drop Jack in NYC, it would make some Oldies
> fans
> > happy but the hit they'd take by not showing faith and
> > commitment in the format would be even worse, long-term.
> >
> > Still say they should put Oldies (60s & 70s) on another
> > Viacom freqency as soon as they can and salvage a
> > self-inflicted ugly situation.
> >
>
>
>
>
> OldiesCat:
>
> I've mentioned this on the NYRMB that some new stations in
> the past had a strong or decent showing when they made their
> debut.
>
> When Disco 92 WKTU signed on in the summer of 1978 they had
> a double digit share in their first book. But over a seven
> year period, their numbers fell to a mediocre rating and
> WXRK-Rock came on the scene in the summer of 1985.
>
> WRKS-FM 98.7 started playing Classic Soul & Smooth R&B in
> the winter of 1995 and their ratings went to the top.
>
> When something new is promoted, people are excited about it
> which is why Disco 92, WAPP (The Apple), Hot 103.5 WQHT and
> (Jammin 105.1 FM) WTJM all had impressive numbers in their
> first book.
>
> But with all the pubicity that JACK-FM has gotton since June
> 3, 2005, the listening audience to the station at 101.1FM
> has gone elsewhere.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Kevin L. Sealy
>
 
Re: Uhh Crane Please....

> Jack is WACK and there's no big comeback; this is NEW YORK;
> we don't forgive & we don't forget!By the way,don't forget
> about Z 100 going from Worst to First in one ratings
> book!(Listening to shannon's "True Oldies" on line right
> now,and luvin it!)


WOW! Bring on the crane so we can PULL YOU out of his rear-end. Nearly every post of yours has some sort of Scott Shannon reference which is fine but certainly worth noting. Are you aware of this observation?
 
> Two things on Jack in NYC:
>
> * they shot themselves in the foot with a botched beginning.
> You get one chance
> to make a great first impression- they did not.
>
> * They made headlines by having Jack replace one of NYC's
> beloved radio stations and could have helped themselves by
> returning Oldies to another frequency to build some
> goodwill- they did not.
>
> Now, it's too late to go back. If they were to cut their
> losses and drop Jack in NYC, it would make some Oldies fans
> happy but the hit they'd take by not showing faith and
> commitment in the format would be even worse, long-term.
>
> Still say they should put Oldies (60s & 70s) on another
> Viacom freqency as soon as they can and salvage a
> self-inflicted ugly situation.
>

I doubt Viacom or anyone else will put oldies on the air except on an HD channel. The future is not in oldies radio. I think Infinity will stick with Jack. They aren't interested in older demographics and neither it seems is anyone else.
 
Re: Uhh Crane Please....

> > Jack is WACK and there's no big comeback; this is NEW
> YORK;
> > we don't forgive & we don't forget!By the way,don't forget
>
> > about Z 100 going from Worst to First in one ratings
> > book!(Listening to shannon's "True Oldies" on line right
> > now,and luvin it!)
>
>
> WOW! Bring on the crane so we can PULL YOU out of his
> rear-end. Nearly every post of yours has some sort of Scott
> Shannon reference which is fine but certainly worth noting.
> Are you aware of this observation?
>
Well, at LEAST I'm not talking about my simultaneous new singles "DanceFloor"
http://www.liquidmusicinc.com
and "Last Call"
http://www.strongisland.com
both of which will rescue dance music this winter from it's current tomb!
 
Re: The new CBS/Jack-FM logo!

> The "Jack" experiment on CBS-FM presents Infinity with a
> dilemma. Obviously, it was not a smashing success.
> Generally, Jack and it's clones debut big. This done
> didn't. Plus, there was the great listener (and I suspect
> advertiser) backlash. If this were a lower profile market,
> they would probably have switched back to the previousl
> format (or had that contingency locked and loaded once the
> fall book came out). Problem is, if you admit defeat in New
> York, it is such a high profile failure that egos will get
> in the way.
>
> It took Ford three years to kill the Edsel. It took just
> months for Coca-Cola to kill "new" Coke.
>
> Here's what they should do. Start expanding their "play
> anything" playlist to cover more hits of the 70's. Maybe
> stunt with Christmas music in December. The day after
> Christmas, bring back the "new" CBS-FM. Take it back to
> where it was pre-switch, but with more 70's on the playlist.
> Update the presentation. Get some new jingles with more of
> a 70's/80's sound (get re-sings of the ones that were on the
> air on WABC and WNBC for familiarity). Over a 6-9 month
> period, start evolving the format to where it should have
> evolved to in the first place. Quietly drop a lot of the
> 60's records from the rotation and start salting in more
> 80's. Continue to evolve the station. Use a 40 year old as
> the moving target and in any given year play the music that
> was on the radio when that year's 35-45 year old was
> between the the ages of 12 and 22.
> Using that formula, the music should be mainly that from
> 1972-1990 with the heaviest rotation of songs being in the
> middle... about 1977-1985.
>
> There would still be some room to salt in a few "evergreen"
> songs from the 60's and even 50's... plus they could do
> maybe a "60's Saturday Night" and a Sunday "Doo-Wop" show
> for us old-timers.
>
> I would also suggest dropping the "oldies" monikker. You
> can say things like "The Best Music of All Time" or even
> "Music Radio" (which was used by WABC in the 70's and Z-100
> in the 80's). Keep it fun, keep it well produced, and keep
> it fresh.
>
> When the Oldies format debuted in 1972, the oldest song on
> their playlist was only 18 years old... and they played
> songs that were only a year old.... even some currents
> ("Future Gold") once or twice an hour. As of their demise,
> the NEWEST song on the playlistwas probably 26 years old,
> and the core songs were 35-40 years old.
>
> If the Oldies format does not continue to evolve and follow
> that 40-year old, it will go the way of the
> Nostalgia/Standards format. Every generation has its fond
> musical memories which go back to their high school and
> college days. Programmers just need to make sure that the
> oldies don't get too old.
>

That seems like a good idea to me, but it just won't happen. It seems Infinity sticks with new formats for the long run. Mix 102.7 was a failure, but it's numbers are improving. The thing is, Mix didn't have such a harsh start off.
<P ID="signature">______________
The Place for the Latest Happenings in Radio
www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>
 
Re: The new CBS/Jack-FM logo!

> >
>
> That seems like a good idea to me, but it just won't happen.
> It seems Infinity sticks with new formats for the long run.
> Mix 102.7 was a failure, but it's numbers are improving. The
> thing is, Mix didn't have such a harsh start off.
>

Infinity didn't stick with the last half-dozen formats that briefly visited 102.7 since they dumped the long-running rock format. When they went to the current format, WNEW had nowhere to go but up, whereas WCBS was still a successful radio station just in need of some adjustment. There's still enough leftover inertia from the old 101.1 format that they could capture if they make the move soon. As I said in my previous post, though, I'm not sure the egos at Black Rock will allow that to happen. If it does, to paraphrase the Donald... that team's going the boardroom and someone WILL be fired.
 
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