Jack-FM: The beginning of the end?

[neo11]

There's a lot missing from NYC radio, there's no denying that. And if there were more frequencies to go around, it would be nice if country, and oldies both had radio homes.

I beg to differ with you: There ARE more freqencies to go around - they are called HD2 and there are lots of them to go around in NYC.

Funny, but how many of them are country? How many people would run out and buy an HD2 radio to hear that long-lost country format?

I'm betting about as many people are buying HD2 radios to hear CBS-FMs Oldies stream...if that many.

A very very small percentage of the populations own HD radios.

So if there was country on a HD station around here, it wouldn't matter.

With the technology available to us these days, New Yorkers can EASILY access country music. You could do it the old fashioned way and buy CDs or tapes or you can listen online or buy and iPOD or MP3 player and fill it up with country music.

There is country on KTU's HD-2 stream, I believe. But when I mentioned "lack of frequencies," I meant regular, analog over-the-air FM radio. As was pointed out, HD Radio is hardly a blip on the radar at the moment, though it does offer both country and oldies for those who want it.

 

[Jay F]

No "eye rolling" needed..My point is that Country worked in NY 30 years ago when the music was much deeper in the tobbaco spiting, pickup drivng, cb talking vein, than it is today. Obviously, you are not aware of the gigantic female (young) appeal of Brad Paisley, Keith Urban and others. We are in a Country boom very much like the early 90's. A lot of young adult females are tired of the oversaturation of Hip Hop and other pop genres.

I disagree that we are in a early-90s style country boom. The country share is down, in some markets significantly, over the past 15 years. This is not a bust period either, country is stable.

Keep in mind that AC plays plenty of the country artists with crossover appeal such as Keith Urban, Rascal Flatts, and Martina McBride. This is a far different situation than the early 90s when AC played none of the big country artists such as Garth Brooks. If stations like WLTW played no country crossovers there would be more opportunity for a country station in NYC than there is today.

 

[oaktree]

Point taken. If enough people wanted country (or oldies, for that matter) on the analog FMs, there would be little need to migrate those people to Internet streams, CDs or other avenues.

They would, if they wanted it bad enough in the nation's top radio market, head to Radio Shack, Best Buy or WalMart and do what they had to do ... after this long without their favorite format ... if they truly wanted it.

Of course, the point about HD is correct. It's a blip on the radar, but it's not attracting those loyal, hard-core fans who would, from what I hear, dance at the chance to get their favorite formats ... one way or another.

The fact that the major bidders in the broadcasting game shun these "popular" formats on their main channels is indeed telling us something.

Could it be ... that the formats aren't popular enough as money makers to do what's needed to be done?

Remember, as we've been told many times here, it's not about entertainment, audience or formats ... it's about making money.

We have, in essence, gone for circle on this, now.

If there channels were there, even in HD and I wanted it bad enough ... I'd go buy an HD radio. I haven't and won't.

Radio is becoming more and more an abyss, if you ask me.

 

[HHH]

How about WEVD-FM 101.1.

All Yiddish, All The Time!

Seriously, did you all get a chance to hear this special when it ran on NPR a few years ago?

Pretty charming stuff. A world of New York City radio which has completely vanished.


http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/atc/20020416.atc.06.ram

 

[RickSklar77]

from what I hear, they're continuing to trend upwards in their target demos. So Jack may have more life in him than you think.

Jack is certainly NOT trending upwards in their target demo (M25-54). Despite a pretty good extrapolated number in March, they've been trending downwards since last fall. The April extraps (the first month of the spring book) are absolutely anemic.

 

[RADIOGM]

Scott Shannon's format is absolutely the worst for an Oldies format. You have to hope that the brains at CBS want to recapture the 35 million dollars a year that Oldies 101.1 once billed a few years ago. I've seen the actual research that shows NYC Metro is still a huge Oldies area that can be converted to ratings and revenue.
Much better than Country would do in our region.

If CBS doesn't do this soon, somebody else will!

RGM

 

[Jeffrey]

No "eye rolling" needed..My point is that Country worked in NY 30 years ago when the music was much deeper in the tobbaco spiting, pickup drivng, cb talking vein, than it is today. Obviously, you are not aware of the gigantic female (young) appeal of Brad Paisley, Keith Urban and others. We are in a Country boom very much like the early 90's. A lot of young adult females are tired of the oversaturation of Hip Hop and other pop genres.

I'm sorry but this is just a ridiculous post...EVERYONE who knows anything about radio knows that country music has mass female appeal but the point was made that NYC is saturated with formats targeting females. Additionally what stats do you have backing up your statement that young adult females are tired of the oversaturation of hip hop and other pop genres (especially in this market) or is this your opinion?
Where do you live anyway? It couldn't be New York.

 

[htowler]

There's a lot missing from NYC radio, there's no denying that. And if there were more frequencies to go around, it would be nice if country, and oldies both had radio homes. That said, some formats that I think would have a better chance include:

-An intelligent triple-A format similar to The Peak
-Another CHR station to go up against Z100
-To a much more limited extent, a newer-leaning dance station to go up against KTU's sagging numbers, which have been sagging ever since they made their latest tweak to sound older. However, a rhythmic-friendly CHR competitor to Z100 could do the job as well.

There are 2 types of CHR

CHR/Pop or Top40
CHR/Rhythmic or Rhythmic

You suggest another top40? to compete with with Z100, A straight up top 40 that does not lean Rhythmic or HOT AC
or a Rhythmic leaning Top 40 such as KIIS in LA

Or maybe a TRUE Rhythmic Station. Like Maybe CC's WIBT from Charolette? Unlike Hot97 that says they are Rhythmic but are about 95% Urban.

 

[neo11]

There's a lot missing from NYC radio, there's no denying that. And if there were more frequencies to go around, it would be nice if country, and oldies both had radio homes. That said, some formats that I think would have a better chance include:

-An intelligent triple-A format similar to The Peak
-Another CHR station to go up against Z100
-To a much more limited extent, a newer-leaning dance station to go up against KTU's sagging numbers, which have been sagging ever since they made their latest tweak to sound older. However, a rhythmic-friendly CHR competitor to Z100 could do the job as well.

There are 2 types of CHR

CHR/Pop or Top40
CHR/Rhythmic or Rhythmic

You suggest another top40? to compete with with Z100, A straight up top 40 that does not lean Rhythmic or HOT AC
or a Rhythmic leaning Top 40 such as KIIS in LA

Or maybe a TRUE Rhythmic Station. Like Maybe CC's WIBT from Charolette? Unlike Hot97 that says they are Rhythmic but are about 95% Urban.

I was suggesting a more rhythmic leaning top 40. Z-100 has gone unchallenged for a while now and has really strong numbers. It could even do some side damage to KTU and the urban stations (Power and Hot) as well.

 

[radiolover78]

If CBS doesn't do this soon, somebody else will!

No. Nobody else will because it's already been two years since CBS FM flipped. 729 days to be exact (I think). If any station were going to flip, it would have already happend.

 

[SonoSational18]

How about WEVD-FM 101.1.

All Yiddish, All The Time!

Seriously, did you all get a chance to hear this special when it ran on NPR a few years ago?

Pretty charming stuff. A world of New York City radio which has completely vanished.


http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/atc/20020416.atc.06.ram

We had that until the early 90's.... but it was at 97.9.

 

[SonoSational18]

And with the oldies format in the toilet these days, I don't think 101.1 will ever go back to oldies. I think that would've happened by now.

As long as JACK keeps doing decent 25-54 they probably won't change. Still, I disagree with the idea that oldies is in the toilet these days. Actually, oldies is one of the top rated formats in several markets. Most of the oldies stations have updated their music and play late 1960s-early 1980s, this had helped lower the demos. Many of these stations no longer call themselves oldies, they are now known as classic hits.

I don't know where anyone is getting the idea that Jack is doing "decent" 25-54 numbers. I do agree that Oldies/Classic Hits still has legs.... but they have to keep evolving which was one of the problems that CBS-FM had. They seemed to be frozen in 1995, although still better than most I've heard on the air in NY or elsewhere. We are probably at a crossroads where agency target demos are going to shift older. This happened around 1980 with the switch in focus from 18-49 to 25-54. Look sof 35-64 to be the "new 25-54" as baby boomers age and continue to drop a boatload of disposable income on products that advertisers want to sell.

 

[davideduardo]

I don't know where anyone is getting the idea that Jack is doing "decent" 25-54 numbers. I do agree that Oldies/Classic Hits still has legs.... but they have to keep evolving which was one of the problems that CBS-FM had. They seemed to be frozen in 1995, although still better than most I've heard on the air in NY or elsewhere. We are probably at a crossroads where agency target demos are going to shift older. This happened around 1980 with the switch in focus from 18-49 to 25-54. Look sof 35-64 to be the "new 25-54" as baby boomers age and continue to drop a boatload of disposable income on products that advertisers want to sell.

Today's headline is that the "new" big demo is 18-49, not 25-54.

 

[BossJock1947]

I don't know where anyone is getting the idea that Jack is doing "decent" 25-54 numbers. I do agree that Oldies/Classic Hits still has legs.... but they have to keep evolving which was one of the problems that CBS-FM had. They seemed to be frozen in 1995, although still better than most I've heard on the air in NY or elsewhere. We are probably at a crossroads where agency target demos are going to shift older. This happened around 1980 with the switch in focus from 18-49 to 25-54. Look sof 35-64 to be the "new 25-54" as baby boomers age and continue to drop a boatload of disposable income on products that advertisers want to sell.

Today's headline is that the "new" big demo is 18-49, not 25-54.

Sorry David, you're way off. I'm with Sono.

 

[davideduardo]

I don't know where anyone is getting the idea that Jack is doing "decent" 25-54 numbers. I do agree that Oldies/Classic Hits still has legs.... but they have to keep evolving which was one of the problems that CBS-FM had. They seemed to be frozen in 1995, although still better than most I've heard on the air in NY or elsewhere. We are probably at a crossroads where agency target demos are going to shift older. This happened around 1980 with the switch in focus from 18-49 to 25-54. Look sof 35-64 to be the "new 25-54" as baby boomers age and continue to drop a boatload of disposable income on products that advertisers want to sell.

Today's headline is that the "new" big demo is 18-49, not 25-54.

Sorry David, you're way off. I'm with Sono.

OK, call anyone who sells or presents at Katz or Interrep and ask them what the broad demos that are up most often are. They will tell you that 25-54 still leads, but 18-49 and 18-34 are on the increase (remembering that many campaigns are for much tighter demos inside the broad ones).

You are both wrong and tiring in your constant wrongness.

 

[Garrett]

David,

Maybe the problem is you are expecting laypeople to understand inside baseball. You can't expect most of us to understand what only you would know. The "current target demo" as it were is likely above the heads of most of us. Answer this question: Is JACK FM doing as well as CBS wants, or not? If the answer is no, the rest is moot point, imo.

 

[oaktree]

I'll step in first... CBS or anyone is NEVER happy with where a radio station is in any given market, especiallly revenue-wise, wanting them to all do better, no matter the ratings.

This...let alone where there are a couple of standouts where it is obvious that there is concern. "Jack" would be one of them. We've discussed, recently, Jack's revenue dive. Maybe the billing has come back ...

David?

 

[Nate Wesley]

There's a lot missing from NYC radio, there's no denying that. And if there were more frequencies to go around, it would be nice if country, and oldies both had radio homes.

I beg to differ with you: There ARE more freqencies to go around - they are called HD2 and there are lots of them to go around in NYC.

Funny, but how many of them are country? How many people would run out and buy an HD2 radio to hear that long-lost country format?

I'm betting about as many people are buying HD2 radios to hear CBS-FMs Oldies stream...if that many.

A very very small percentage of the populations own HD radios.

So if there was country on a HD station around here, it wouldn't matter.

With the technology available to us these days, New Yorkers can EASILY access country music. You could do it the old fashioned way and buy CDs or tapes or you can listen online or buy and iPOD or MP3 player and fill it up with country music.

 

[oaktree]

Or, if it mattered ... more people would BUY an HD radio ... it's certainly being promoted enough.

 

[davideduardo]

I'll step in first... CBS or anyone is NEVER happy with where a radio station is in any given market, especiallly revenue-wise, wanting them to all do better, no matter the ratings.

This...let alone where there are a couple of standouts where it is obvious that there is concern. "Jack" would be one of them. We've discussed, recently, Jack's revenue dive. Maybe the billing has come back ...

David?

The revenue is tracking the slight increase in ratings, but nowhere near where the oldies format was. On the other hand, if you had trended the pre-change oldies billings to 2008, they would be lower than what Jack is doing going into 2007... This is a Catch 22. The old format was declining and the new one is not as big as hoped for.

You shure are right on ongoing demands. No matter how well you do, you are asked for more. And if you exceed expectations, you get called a sandbagger.