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JACK FM

C

chrisr

Guest
Jack-FM programming is ALL OVER THE PLACE. You can't please ALL the people ALL the time. Some of those titles just creep people out. The hard core disco tracks (the format that single handedly killed CHR in the late 70's) will never ever mix well on the same station playing "The Cure" (not a mainstream artist that JACKS just seem to love) into "Zepplin". Jack represents to many era's and seems to have picked out some of the worst titles from those era's. The same man or woman listening to some of the early 70's tracks they play had either outgrown CHR or moved to oldies radio all together and more then likely may not be familiar with some or all of the 80's and 90's titles.

The other problem with JACK-FM's is they play too many "radio pd's favorite songs" that the average listener doesn't know or doesn't like. I'm sorry, but Rock Lobster by the B-52's was never a charting hit. You only hear that song mostly on low rated 80's stations (look it up and match the station, then go to allaccess and look at the ratings). I thought we all learned early in our careers that if PD's want to hear their favorite songs, go home and put in the cd. Those songs (unless well tested and/or big hit) have NO business on a serious radio station trying to get ratings/revenue.

If JACK is to survive long-term, they must get serious and take all the bubblegum titles and unfamiliar songs off and focus on a particular listener. JACKS will (and in some cases already have) developed an identity crisis. Early research already shows it coming apart at the seems. Huge cume/low time spent listening. People are curious as to what they will play next, but when they hear "what's the frequency kenneth by rem into-walking on sunshine by katrina and the waves into-maybelene by chuck berry into-turning japanese by the vapors into-phsycodelic furs-pretty in pink into shakin by eddie money into nothing compares to you by sinead o'conner into live and let die by paul mccartney into i've been thinking about you-londonbeat into anticipation by carly simon into harder to breathe-maroon 5 into dreams by van halen into i'm alright by kenny loggings into the glamorous life by sheila e, they come to the conclusion that this station is not something they can leave on all the time and call their favorite radio station. With all those nasty titles, the station just becomes plain boring and developes it's current low time spent listening problem.

If Infinety had put this format on in New York on 102.7, that frequency would have continued in the 1's. They knew that. They put it on CBS-FM to get response. I hate to tell them, but they will probably not get the response they were hoping for. Yes CBS-FM needed to move slightly younger, but not like this. Whomever made the decision to blow up a VERY successful station and throw 33 million in billing out the door better hopes this works.

My wife had the best analogy yet of these unfocused JACK stations. These stations say their like your ipod on shuffle. She said "it certainetly isn't my ipod on shuffle, it's sounds like some ipod found on the side of the road on shuffle."
 
I think you are quite wrong. The problem is with the other stations, with their TIGHT playlists and endless repetition. It is the variety you speak of that is the main appeal of Jack. We listen to Jack at work and it's amazing how much the people enjoy the mix.

People are more adventurous than you give them credit for. Whether they've heard Rock Lobster before or not, it's a fun song and people enjoy it. The real problem is how some people have been conditioned into believing the idea that people only want to hear one kind of music. I don't listen to Jack because it sounds like MY MP3 player since I don't need to hear all the same songs I already own. I listen to Jack because it plays a large variety of songs I DON'T have on my MP3 player.

If Jack turns into another of the thousand of boring, mediocre radio stations out there, like the KISS, MIX, STAR and other such stations, they might as well just turn the lights out. The world is full of bad radio already.
 
> If Infinety had put this format on in New York on 102.7,
> that frequency would have continued in the 1's. They knew
> that. They put it on CBS-FM to get response. I hate to tell
> them, but they will probably not get the response they were
> hoping for. Yes CBS-FM needed to move slightly younger, but
> not like this. Whomever made the decision to blow up a VERY
> successful station and throw 33 million in billing out the
> door better hopes this works.
>
> My wife had the best analogy yet of these unfocused JACK
> stations. These stations say their like your ipod on
> shuffle. She said "it certainetly isn't my ipod on shuffle,
> it's sounds like some ipod found on the side of the road on
> shuffle."
>
I couldn't agree with you more. WCBS as a legendary station made a big mistake and my take is that it will fail.
You're absolutely right about WNEW. Had they put JACK on there they'd probably be billing less than they are now.
By the way seeing as "the" JACKs are evidently programmed in Texas, it is unlikely that the music played on JACK in NYC. will be what would be on any New Yorker's ipod!
<P ID="signature">______________
WQCD, NY. Chill, Finally some creative radio!</P>
 
> I think you are quite wrong. The problem is with the other
> stations, with their TIGHT playlists and endless repetition.
> It is the variety you speak of that is the main appeal of
> Jack. We listen to Jack at work and it's amazing how much
> the people enjoy the mix.

With this post, you've posted a total of 26 times, all since JACK and only in JACK threds in support of the format. Sounds like spin... ;-)
 
Spin it is: Corporate from Infinity? Employee?

Doesn't matter. Just because a radio opens up it's playlist doesn't make for interesting radio. It's just the other side of the pendulum.

BTW. When you're doing a fun format, there's nothing wrong with Rock Lobster as long as it's the edit. As a matter of fact a station playing a little novelty doesn't hurt when you have the personalities to back it up and the interaction with the listeners to complete the "entertainment".


> > I think you are quite wrong. The problem is with the
> other
> > stations, with their TIGHT playlists and endless
> repetition.
> > It is the variety you speak of that is the main appeal of
>
> > Jack. We listen to Jack at work and it's amazing how much
>
> > the people enjoy the mix.
>
> With this post, you've posted a total of 26 times, all since
> JACK and only in JACK threds in support of the format.
> Sounds like spin... ;-)
>
 
oh, really?

Couple of questions for you:

- all over the place according to YOU- do you have any evidence (other than
anecdotal stories from your group of friends) that radio listeners feel the
same? Who are these titles "creeping out"?

- where is it written that "charting hit" is the criteria for JACK (or any
well-programmed station)?

- please tell us the "early research" that JACK is "coming apart at the seams"?
That seems odd for a station that's less than 2 weeks old. Please provide
your source(s).

Opinions are one thing- that's fine, we all have them. But you're presenting information as factual that are in all likelihood 99.9% your personal tastes and
feelings. If not, please back it up with proof. thanx.

> Jack-FM programming is ALL OVER THE PLACE. You can't please
> ALL the people ALL the time. Some of those titles just creep
> people out.

> The other problem with JACK-FM's is they play too many
> "radio pd's favorite songs" that the average listener
> doesn't know or doesn't like. I'm sorry, but Rock Lobster by
> the B-52's was never a charting hit. You only hear that song
> mostly on low rated 80's stations (look it up and match the
> station, then go to allaccess and look at the ratings). I
> thought we all learned early in our careers that if PD's
> want to hear their favorite songs, go home and put in the
> cd. Those songs (unless well tested and/or big hit) have NO
> business on a serious radio station trying to get
> ratings/revenue.
>
> If JACK is to survive long-term, they must get serious and
> take all the bubblegum titles and unfamiliar songs off and
> focus on a particular listener. JACKS will (and in some
> cases already have) developed an identity crisis. Early
> research already shows it coming apart at the seems. Huge
> cume/low time spent listening. People are curious as to what
> they will play next, but when they hear "what's the
> frequency kenneth by rem into-walking on sunshine by katrina
> and the waves into-maybelene by chuck berry into-turning
> japanese by the vapors into-phsycodelic furs-pretty in pink
> into shakin by eddie money into nothing compares to you by
> sinead o'conner into live and let die by paul mccartney into
> i've been thinking about you-londonbeat into anticipation by
> carly simon into harder to breathe-maroon 5 into dreams by
> van halen into i'm alright by kenny loggings into the
> glamorous life by sheila e, they come to the conclusion that
> this station is not something they can leave on all the time
> and call their favorite radio station. With all those nasty
> titles, the station just becomes plain boring and developes
> it's current low time spent listening problem.
>
> If Infinety had put this format on in New York on 102.7,
> that frequency would have continued in the 1's. They knew
> that. They put it on CBS-FM to get response. I hate to tell
> them, but they will probably not get the response they were
> hoping for. Yes CBS-FM needed to move slightly younger, but
> not like this. Whomever made the decision to blow up a VERY
> successful station and throw 33 million in billing out the
> door better hopes this works.
>
> My wife had the best analogy yet of these unfocused JACK
> stations. These stations say their like your ipod on
> shuffle. She said "it certainetly isn't my ipod on shuffle,
> it's sounds like some ipod found on the side of the road on
> shuffle."
>
 
which is it?

But I think his post was about "what's wrong with JACK", not that Infinity made a mistake ditching CBS-FM (which they did).

They are not the same discussion. I'm just as outraged they got rid of a legendary station. That has ZERO to do with what JACK is doing, however.


> >
> I couldn't agree with you more. WCBS as a legendary station
> made a big mistake and my take is that it will fail.
> You're absolutely right about WNEW. Had they put JACK on
> there they'd probably be billing less than they are now.
> By the way seeing as "the" JACKs are evidently programmed in
> Texas, it is unlikely that the music played on JACK in NYC.
> will be what would be on any New Yorker's ipod!
>
 
Re: which is it?

> But I think his post was about "what's wrong with JACK", not
> that Infinity made a mistake ditching CBS-FM (which they
> did).
>
> They are not the same discussion. I'm just as outraged they
> got rid of a legendary station. That has ZERO to do with
> what JACK is doing, however.
>
I'm not an oldies fan so I'm not outraged about the loss of CBS-FM. I only think it was a stupid move.
What's more I did speak about what JACK is doing which in my opinion is not overely smart either.
Programmed in Texas for New Yorkers...that was my main point.<P ID="signature">______________
WQCD, NY. Chill, Finally some creative radio!</P>
 
Re: oh, really?

> Couple of questions for you:
>
> - all over the place according to YOU- do you have any
> evidence (other than
> anecdotal stories from your group of friends) that radio
> listeners feel the
> same? Who are these titles "creeping out"?

Ratings will prove my point. Let us see JACK going higher then CBS-FM and STAYING there. If that happens, I will absolutely admit I'm wrong. Some of these JACK stations have been on long enough we should already be seeing some leaps in numbers that reflect how high Infinity is on this format. If you feel high 1's and 2's are successful, then CBS's 3 plus share and 33 million in revenue is off the scale.

>
> - where is it written that "charting hit" is the criteria
> for JACK (or any
> well-programmed station)?

It's written in Arbitron. Show me a station that is this confused musically that has big numbers. Don't get me wrong, I love a big playlist. Hearing the same songs over and over (especially gold formats) drive me crazy. However, if you're going to open up a playlist, the songs HAVE to match. Another post stated that Rock Lobster by the B-52's chart position was #56 and stayed on the charts for 8 weeks. That means that song is a stiff and MOST of America has no clue what that song is and only music-heads may recognize it. It didn't get into the Top 40 for a reason. MOST people DIDN'T like it. You HAVE to have SOME kind of idea who you want to program too. Some of these songs don't match the format. You might as well throw in some country and smooth Jazz as they would be just as big of a train wreck.

>
> - please tell us the "early research" that JACK is "coming
> apart at the seams"?
> That seems odd for a station that's less than 2 weeks
> old. Please provide
> your source(s).

Can't reveal the source, but any article you read on in the trades on these JACK stations are saying the same thing about early research. Big cume out of the gate (curiosity factor) but very little time spent listening (they just don't like the station well enough to stay with it)which means little passion which means after the 'oh wow" factor has wore off, the station will tank. Who knows how long that will take.


>
> Opinions are one thing- that's fine, we all have them. But
> you're presenting information as factual that are in all
> likelihood 99.9% your personal tastes and
> feelings. If not, please back it up with proof. thanx.

I will be honest. Yes most of this is my oppinion. But very seldom am I wrong.
You will see. Not being cocky, just common sense thinking and years of experience. Programmers of these JACK stations need more common sense to see you can't blend this many different types of music over the course of 3 decades on one station. Small markets have been trying to do this for years. The majors will chew these stations up and spit them out unless they adjust asap.

>
 
> Spin it is: Corporate from Infinity? Employee?


You couldn't be more wrong. I have no affiliation with any broadcast company. The only spin is your own opinion.
 
>
> With this post, you've posted a total of 26 times, all since
> JACK and only in JACK threds in support of the format.
> Sounds like spin... ;-)
>


Do you have a problem with it? Too bad.
 
oh really pt III

> I will be honest. Yes most of this is my oppinion. But
> very seldom am I wrong. You will see.

Before you were stating all this as fact (as if you had some information backing you up)--now it's "my point". As we suspected. "I am very seldom wrong"-
if that's the case, what major radio station are you programming today? If you're THAT good, you must be one heckuva successful Programmer or group head.
>
> Ratings will prove my point. Let us see JACK going higher
> then CBS-FM and STAYING there. If that happens, I will
> absolutely admit I'm wrong. Some of these JACK stations
> have been on long enough we should already be seeing some
> leaps in numbers that reflect how high Infinity is on this
> format. If you feel high 1's and 2's are successful, then
> CBS's 3 plus share and 33 million in revenue is off the
> scale.
>
Has it occoured to you that winning radio stations do their homework by doing music research, finding out what targeted listeners in their area really want to hear? How a song charted and for how long 25 years ago HAS NO RELEVANCE TO IT'S APPEAL IN 2005. That thinking is so 1968.

Again, what they DIDN'T like compared to what they DO LIKE are very different. Chart positions are not part of real, everyday radio listners'
thought process.

> It's written in Arbitron. Show me a station that is this
> confused musically that has big numbers. Don't get me
> wrong, I love a big playlist. Hearing the same songs over
> and over (especially gold formats) drive me crazy. However,
> if you're going to open up a playlist, the songs HAVE to
> match. Another post stated that Rock Lobster by the B-52's
> chart position was #56 and stayed on the charts for 8 weeks.
> That means that song is a stiff and MOST of America has no
> clue what that song is and only music-heads may recognize
> it. It didn't get into the Top 40 for a reason. MOST
> people DIDN'T like it. You HAVE to have SOME kind of idea
> who you want to program too. Some of these songs don't
> match the format. You might as well throw in some country
> and smooth Jazz as they would be just as big of a train
> wreck.
>
You can "reveal the source" because you have no source. The Edison/Interep study just released included a handful of stations in their early stages.
High cume, not so high TSL- that's called Top 40 radio and it's always been that way.

> Can't reveal the source, but any article you read on in the
> trades on these JACK stations are saying the same thing
> about early research. Big cume out of the gate (curiosity
> factor) but very little time spent listening (they just
> don't like the station well enough to stay with it)which
> means little passion which means after the 'oh wow" factor
> has wore off, the station will tank. Who knows how long
> that will take.
>
I don't know how you can slam radio for playing the same 300 songs over and over then make a blanket statement that radio listeners won't like the much wider variety(?). Can't have it both ways.
>
Not being cocky, just common sense thinking
> and years of experience. Programmers of these JACK stations
> need more common sense to see you can't blend this many
> different types of music over the course of 3 decades on one
> station. Small markets have been trying to do this for
> years. The majors will chew these stations up and spit them
> out unless they adjust asap.
>
> >
>
 
no doubt

It was a stupid move. But- they are not Programmed in Texas. The format cheif is HQ'd in Dallas but this "it's run by a computer at corporate" line of thinking is
rarely true (at least not as much as many jocks in radio would like to believe).

> >
> I'm not an oldies fan so I'm not outraged about the loss of
> CBS-FM. I only think it was a stupid move.
> What's more I did speak about what JACK is doing which in my
> opinion is not overely smart either.
> Programmed in Texas for New Yorkers...that was my main
> point.
>
 
>>The hard core disco tracks (the format that single handedly killed CHR in the late 70's)<<

And you saw how long that lasted. In 1981-82, all of the the Mike Joseph "Hot Hits" CHR stations popped up in several markets, and most remained successful after evolving into "normal" CHR's. Not to mention a heritage CHR like Z-100 that was very successful shortly after they debuted in 1983, and the year 1984 when, in NYC, you had 4 CHR's in NYC (WKTU, WPLJ, WHTZ, and WAPP) competing against each other due to the popularity of the format that you said died in the late 70's.
 
> Jack-FM programming is ALL OVER THE PLACE. You can't please
> ALL the people ALL the time. Some of those titles just creep
> people out.

I'm just curious which titles fall under creepy.<P ID="signature">______________
...in my day, you could tell the stations apart by the music they played!</P>
 
> I think you are quite wrong. The problem is with the other
> stations, with their TIGHT playlists and endless repetition.
> It is the variety you speak of that is the main appeal of
> Jack. We listen to Jack at work and it's amazing how much
> the people enjoy the mix.
>
> People are more adventurous than you give them credit for.
> Whether they've heard Rock Lobster before or not, it's a fun
> song and people enjoy it. The real problem is how some
> people have been conditioned into believing the idea that
> people only want to hear one kind of music. I don't listen
> to Jack because it sounds like MY MP3 player since I don't
> need to hear all the same songs I already own. I listen to
> Jack because it plays a large variety of songs I DON'T have
> on my MP3 player.
>
> If Jack turns into another of the thousand of boring,
> mediocre radio stations out there, like the KISS, MIX, STAR
> and other such stations, they might as well just turn the
> lights out. The world is full of bad radio already.
>
Robert, we here in Denver had the first Jack south of Canada, KJAC-105.5. And I felt exactly as you do now when it made its debut. But I assure you, the novelty wears off very quickly. You start hearing more songs you don't like than songs you do. You get tired of hearing no local voices and information. Either that or you go back to YOUR iPod instead of THEIRS. Check KJAC's Arbitrons; the station has plateaued at a very meager level, and shows little sign of further growth. Jack has done a service in proving that broadened playlists have a place instead of consultant-driven microtargeting. But in an increasingly sanitized, homogenized, one-size-fits-all world, the value of live-and-local will eventually win out over Jack's soulless jukebox.
 
Re: oh really pt III

> > I will be honest. Yes most of this is my oppinion. But
> > very seldom am I wrong. You will see.
>
> Before you were stating all this as fact (as if you had some
> information backing you up)--now it's "my point". As we
> suspected. "I am very seldom wrong"-
> if that's the case, what major radio station are you
> programming today? If you're THAT good, you must be one
> heckuva successful Programmer or group head.


You are very high on JACK right now because it is the "new, exciting" thing. Wait a couple of months, then come on here and defend bad programming. A station all over the place and as confused as these JACK stations are will not suit you when you start figuring out they are playing a wide playlist of songs YOU don't like. Why? Because like I said earlier, you can't please all the people all the time. You will soon grow tired of hearing other peoples favorite songs. And guess what...other people will be feeling the same way.

> >
> > Ratings will prove my point. Let us see JACK going higher
>
> > then CBS-FM and STAYING there. If that happens, I will
> > absolutely admit I'm wrong. Some of these JACK stations
> > have been on long enough we should already be seeing some
> > leaps in numbers that reflect how high Infinity is on this
>
> > format. If you feel high 1's and 2's are successful, then
>
> > CBS's 3 plus share and 33 million in revenue is off the
> > scale.
> >

> Has it occoured to you that winning radio stations do their
> homework by doing music research, finding out what targeted
> listeners in their area really want to hear? How a song
> charted and for how long 25 years ago HAS NO RELEVANCE TO
> IT'S APPEAL IN 2005. That thinking is so 1968.
>
> Again, what they DIDN'T like compared to what they DO LIKE
> are very different. Chart positions are not part of real,
> everyday radio listners'
> thought process.


Now I will STRONGLY but Respectfully DISAGREE with you on that one. Chart positions DO matter. WHY? Because it is a direct reflection of spins, sales, passion etc...if the song was not on the radio and didn't move product in the stores, then no one was hearing or buying it hence there are NO "memories" to be related to that title. A lot of songs on gold stations test well because of the "memories" factor. I use Rock Lobster as an example because of it's lack of chart position (only made it to #56 and was only recorded for 8 weeks...that is a miserable chart position). I was shocked to see that and other low charting songs on JACK's playlist. This and other low charting songs appeal to only "radio people" because they remember the song while normal America is listening to the song not knowing what it is. The few that do will be passionate about it because they remember it and have the "memory" factor. But you are blowing off the majority by playing it....BIG MISTAKE.


>
> > It's written in Arbitron. Show me a station that is this
> > confused musically that has big numbers. Don't get me
> > wrong, I love a big playlist. Hearing the same songs over
>
> > and over (especially gold formats) drive me crazy.
> However,
> > if you're going to open up a playlist, the songs HAVE to
> > match. Another post stated that Rock Lobster by the
> B-52's
> > chart position was #56 and stayed on the charts for 8
> weeks.
> > That means that song is a stiff and MOST of America has
> no
> > clue what that song is and only music-heads may recognize
> > it. It didn't get into the Top 40 for a reason. MOST
> > people DIDN'T like it. You HAVE to have SOME kind of idea
>
> > who you want to program too. Some of these songs don't
> > match the format. You might as well throw in some country
>
> > and smooth Jazz as they would be just as big of a train
> > wreck.
> >
> You can "reveal the source" because you have no source. The
> Edison/Interep study just released included a handful of
> stations in their early stages.
> High cume, not so high TSL- that's called Top 40 radio and
> it's always been that way.

The last I checked, this is not Top 40. This is a gold based adult format that will thrive on TSL. If curiosity cume is the only thing holding it up at this stage, it will crumble. Don't believe me? Let's check back on this board after the fall and/or winter books are released. Adults turn on the radio and leave it on. If this format is already making them get up to turn it off, eventually they will give up on it and not turn it on at all presenting big Arbitron problems down the road....


>
> > Can't reveal the source, but any article you read on in
> the
> > trades on these JACK stations are saying the same thing
> > about early research. Big cume out of the gate (curiosity
>
> > factor) but very little time spent listening (they just
> > don't like the station well enough to stay with it)which
> > means little passion which means after the 'oh wow" factor
>
> > has wore off, the station will tank. Who knows how long
> > that will take.
> >
> I don't know how you can slam radio for playing the same 300
> songs over and over then make a blanket statement that radio
> listeners won't like the much wider variety(?). Can't have
> it both ways.


Easy. AC playlists need to play MORE familiar AC titles. Classic Rock needs to play MORE familiar CLASSIC ROCK titles etc....

JACK's can play the same amount, just more fucused on whatever listener they want and/or need. You can't mix The Cure, Duran Duran, James Taylor, Village People, Elton John, Leanne Rimes, Bette Midler, Backstreet Boys, Grand Funk, Blondie, Sugar Ray, Fats Domino on the same station. Can't do it EVER. Will not work. You will see.

Let's talk after the Fall and Winter books arrive and JACKS start dying off leaving Infinity scratching their heads and wondering what to do next like they are doing with 102.7 in New York now.


> >
> Not being cocky, just common sense thinking
> > and years of experience. Programmers of these JACK
> stations
> > need more common sense to see you can't blend this many
> > different types of music over the course of 3 decades on
> one
> > station. Small markets have been trying to do this for
> > years. The majors will chew these stations up and spit
> them
> > out unless they adjust asap.
> >
> > >
> >
>
 
> You couldn't be more wrong. I have no affiliation with any
> broadcast company. The only spin is your own opinion.

Then how'd you stumble on a radio broadcaster's board?
 
Hi Boondocker. You make some interesting points. I'm not sure you're wrong about the novelty of Jack but it leads me to question how any station can succeed. My own experience with listening to radio is I don't listen to music on the radio since I hate the tight formats and endless repetition of songs I am either burned out on or don't like. I suspect there are more and more people like me who have turned away from radio as a source of music. I am bored to tears with consultants and their TESTED 200 songs they program on stations. They consider people sheep who will swallow any garbage they feed us. Is it any wonder listening is down on radio? As far as local voices, I don't miss them. Sad as I am to say that, I have no attachment to most local DJ's anymore. I hate morning shows and never listen to any of them. If I want the news, weather or traffic, I listen to the news station. Live and local means nothing when it is just a phony presentation of a tightly controlled format with no soul or real personality.
 
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