Jack NY has only 3 Days to live what will happen with Chicago's Jack?

[clone]

KevinFodor & OldiesCat-----Bravo to both you!!!!

That radio-type who stated that 'you can't play Def Leppard next to Madonna' obviously didn't listen to KIIS, WZPL, WNCI or any other double-digit share CHR/Pop station anytime during the eighties; either that, or he's just plain clueless.

The format was full of 'train wrecks', and enjoyed enormous success which probably had not seen at the format since the mid-sixties, when a twenty share was pretty common.

What I find the most rich is that the same radio hacks that bitch & moan that "you can play this next to this or that and that on the same station" are also the ones who complain the loudest that radio is too predictable, too cookie-cutter and too narrow. The bunch of hypcrites, they are indeed.

Indeed. But Jack isn't, in my opinion, executed properly. Of course you can play Madonna next to Def Leppard, but you have to know how to segue it. It could be a jingle, useless DJ chatter, a call-in, weather report, whatever you think will fit.

Jack's problem isn't the perfection of segues or weather reports.
...
Supposedly, the original premise was Jack basically saying to the listeners, "it's you and me against the world"; that message wears thin after 6-9 months and sure as hell is old & tired by now. It can't be all about Jack anymore-it's got to be all about the listeners and, sadly, they're not recognized that.

I was referring to the reason that, in the 80's, many CHRs were posting double-digits. Of course it wasn't segues or weather reports. But they were part of the package. Listeners were consumers of the Brand. Listeners knew the jingles, they knew the jocks, they knew what was going to be said at the top of the hour, they knew what to expect. Jack's allure is supposedly that you don't know what to expect. But that's not what listeners want. (Maybe in LA, but not in Chicago, and sure as hell not in NYC)

My point is that if you are going to program Def Leppard next to Madonna, it takes a real live person with talent to know how to keep the Leppard fan from tuning out when Material Girl starts to play. It could be the jock knowing what to say (useless chatter), or the right jingle, some kind of segue. Even Jack's "listener line" comments are scripted and recorded in-studio. Listeners see right through it. That's not enough.

A true CHR (or any format that claims to be some type of hybrid or "iPod on shuffle") has to be tightly programmed and branded, with plenty of (real) listener interaction. That's what keeps them coming back. Listeners need to feel like they are a part of the game, not specifically excluded as in the case of Jack. Mass-appeal radio is dead, but there is still enough of a market to support a classic-hits format, but only if it makes listeners feel good.

Sing it with me, 80's JAM Jingle-style...Jack One Oh Four!

 

[OldiesCat]

My point is that if you are going to program Def Leppard next to Madonna, it takes a real live person with talent to know how to keep the Leppard fan from tuning out when Material Girl starts to play. It could be the jock knowing what to say (useless chatter), or the right jingle, some kind of segue.

That's crap. A listener either likes the songs or they don't. A live DJ in there doesn't have any sort of magical touch to keep someone from disliking a song or to convince them they do like it. What do you think the jock would say to get them to stay? We all know people mix their MP3 players very randomly- why would they like it that way on their jockless MP3 player but find it unacceptable from the radio?

It is just that simple. And, no, "useless chatter" is just that- USELESS.

 

[partyshark]

" A live DJ in there doesn't have any sort of magical touch to keep someone from disliking a song or to convince them they do like it. "

I beg to differ. When I was doin nights at a top 40 in Destin Fl. a few years back, I tied the rock station in MALES 25-34 and was close 18-44 as well. Sometimes it is the TALENT that keeps 'em, not the music. Granted, I can't make someone like a song, but I can make them sit through that song just to listen to my next bit, and TSL is KING is it not?

BTW I like this new format idea...
www.yesfm.info

 

[OldiesCat]

" A live DJ in there doesn't have any sort of magical touch to keep someone from disliking a song or to convince them they do like it. "

I beg to differ. When I was doin nights at a top 40 in Destin Fl. a few years back, I tied the rock station in MALES 25-34 and was close 18-44 as well. Sometimes it is the TALENT that keeps 'em, not the music. Granted, I can't make someone like a song, but I can make them sit through that song just to listen to my next bit, and TSL is KING is it not?

BTW I like this new format idea...
www.yesfm.info

Uh, no offense, but having a discussion on Chicago radio is hardly the time to bring Destin FL into the conversation. I could go into Destin FL with punk polka and hit a decent number with the incredible and obvious lack of great, high-level competition. Are we gonna next compare what we do on CBS-FM in New York with our experience 10 years ago in Minot ND?

 

[partyshark]

Uh, no offense, but having a discussion on Chicago radio is hardly the time to bring Destin FL into the conversation. I could go into Destin FL with punk polka and hit a decent number with the incredible and obvious lack of great, high-level competition. Are we gonna next compare what we do on CBS-FM in New York with our experience 10 years ago in Minot ND?

Did someone pee in your wheaties this morning??? Take a paxil dude...radio is radio no matter where it is but it is attitudes like yours (typical of Chicago unfortunately) that turns people off. I have done radio from coast to coast and border to border and this works.

 

[clone]

My point is that if you are going to program Def Leppard next to Madonna, it takes a real live person with talent to know how to keep the Leppard fan from tuning out when Material Girl starts to play. It could be the jock knowing what to say (useless chatter), or the right jingle, some kind of segue.

That's crap. A listener either likes the songs or they don't. A live DJ in there doesn't have any sort of magical touch to keep someone from disliking a song or to convince them they do like it. What do you think the jock would say to get them to stay? We all know people mix their MP3 players very randomly- why would they like it that way on their jockless MP3 player but find it unacceptable from the radio?

It is just that simple. And, no, "useless chatter" is just that- USELESS.

People program an iPod with every song that they like. Their best friend's iPod will not contain verbatim the same playlist as theirs. We are not talking about iPods, this is a broadcast forum. The keyword in broadcast is broad. Radio is an entirely different product, and trying to converge a broadcast medium with a custom-tailored personal medium is a recipe for failure. Listeners want personality, do you disagree?

If a live DJ is worthless, why doesn't VT'ing work all that well?. Why isn't 'ZZN still running straight off the bird? Did ABC want to pay Biondi and Landecker a truckload of money that they could have kept? They know that the listeners follow the personalities.

Jack is basically a retro-CHR/rock. And CHRs dont work well (as they try to play a broad range of formats) unless they are a consistent product that people can identify with. You can't do it without jocks, you can't do it without branding it. I know it isnt 1982 anymore, and you cant expect to be the Z100 of 2007. But there is still room in the market for a station with Jack's music program, but it has to be marketed in such a way that people want to listen, and it makes them feel good to listen. They could take a page out of the 80's CHR handbook and probably do better than JMK was.

JMK's audience was aging, and CBS saw Jack as a way to market new-Oldies to the 25-44, but they didnt need to scrap the product. JMK made an attempt to sound like a 60's/70's Top 40 and it worked. Why they just didnt build themselves a product that sounded like an 80's/90's CHR, I'll never know. I don't know about NY anymore, or Destin, FL for that matter, but I do know that the product isn't just music, the product of radio is multi-faceted.

 

[OldiesCat]

Uh, no offense, but having a discussion on Chicago radio is hardly the time to bring Destin FL into the conversation. I could go into Destin FL with punk polka and hit a decent number with the incredible and obvious lack of great, high-level competition. Are we gonna next compare what we do on CBS-FM in New York with our experience 10 years ago in Minot ND?

Did someone pee in your wheaties this morning??? Take a paxil dude...radio is radio no matter where it is but it is attitudes like yours (typical of Chicago unfortunately) that turns people off. I have done radio from coast to coast and border to border and this works.

If it works that well everywhere why isn't being done everywhere? The Destin FL and Lancaster CA markets of the country do not set the pace for NY, Chicago, LA and Miami.

 

[partyshark]

If it works that well everywhere why isn't being done everywhere? The Destin FL and Lancaster CA markets of the country do not set the pace for NY, Chicago, LA and Miami.

So I guess personality radio is dead. Look at any highly rated station with a competitor playing the same format. The station with the personality wins. And usually that station pulls numbers not only from their demo, but others as well. A top 40 will have male numbers, and some more than others, and my point is that a personality can draw out of demo numbers with personality despite the music. Stern did it in NYC, Dees did it in L.A., and it can be done anywhere. Radio is Radio no matter the market. What works, works.

 

[OldiesCat]

If it works that well everywhere why isn't being done everywhere? The Destin FL and Lancaster CA markets of the country do not set the pace for NY, Chicago, LA and Miami.

So I guess personality radio is dead. Look at any highly rated station with a competitor playing the same format. The station with the personality wins. And usually that station pulls numbers not only from their demo, but others as well. A top 40 will have male numbers, and some more than others, and my point is that a personality can draw out of demo numbers with personality despite the music. Stern did it in NYC, Dees did it in L.A., and it can be done anywhere. Radio is Radio no matter the market. What works, works.

First, I've never said "personality radio is dead".

Secondly, to imply that what works in Destin will work in NY or LA is foolish. HELLO, WAKE UP! The audiences have completely different makeups and lifestyles. THAT is what cookie-cutter radio is all about: "what works in Destin will work in New York". N-O-T.

 

[davideduardo]

A top 40 will have male numbers, and some more than others,

So this is why KIIS in LA is 16th in 18+ men in today's trend and 5th in women? Or why Z-100 in NY is 8th in Men 18+ and 4th in Women 18+? Or why the two Chicago CHRS, WKSC and WBBM-FM, have more women than men in today's trend?

 

[clone]

A top 40 will have male numbers, and some more than others,

So this is why KIIS in LA is 16th in 18+ men in today's trend and 5th in women? Or why Z-100 in NY is 8th in Men 18+ and 4th in Women 18+? Or why the two Chicago CHRS, WKSC and WBBM-FM, have more women than men in today's trend?

KIIS is 16th in men, Z100 is 8th in men, and Kiss and B96 have more women than men here because all of those stations are products designed to attract women. Men don't listen because they arent being targeted. The product isn't being designed to attract and retain male listenership. So why should they care if men are listening are not, they aren't selling men!

But this also tells me that the "narrowcasting" is alienating otherwise viable listeners. Z100 didn't become what it is today by targeting a narrow market segment, but they have to now due to massive fragmentation. Does anyone think that a rock-leaning, retro-CHR wouldn't kill in Market #3, if only the on-air product was consistently branded, and had some money and talent behind it?

A Flame-throwin' retro-CHR, aimed nice and wide, might even be able to undo some of the years of fragmentation, but it wouldn't be cheap, and who wants to take that gamble with the stockholders watching?