JACK NYC

[OldiesCat]

Could 101.1 Jack FM's lack of success so far be in huge part because of the bad buzz by it replacing CBS-FM? I know that seems an obvious question but in other markets where Jack replaced Oldies, it's doing quite well. Could the huge swell of negative press indeed backfired on Viacom (vs. putting the Jack format on another frequency)?

I still maintain it could've been a win/win doing their Jack deal then coming back with the Oldies format on WNEW-FM a couple of weeks later.

(BTW- I'm not fishing for and will not respond to "Jack sucks" postings by the Jack format haters. That's not the question, so please save your breath-thanks).

 

[Jay_F]

> Could 101.1 Jack FM's lack of success so far be in huge part
> because of the bad buzz by it replacing CBS-FM? I know that
> seems an obvious question but in other markets where Jack
> replaced Oldies, it's doing quite well. Could the huge
> swell of negative press indeed backfired on Viacom (vs.
> putting the Jack format on another frequency)?
>
> I still maintain it could've been a win/win doing their Jack
> deal then coming back with the Oldies format on WNEW-FM a
> couple of weeks later.
>
> (BTW- I'm not fishing for and will not respond to "Jack
> sucks" postings by the Jack format haters. That's not the
> question, so please save your breath-thanks).
>


Somebody on the "other" NYC radio board brought up a good point. They said that even non-oldies listeners had people in their circle of friends, family, co-workers etc. who were very upset about CBS-FM switching to Jack. Not too many format changes ever cause this kind of talk on the street and it was all so negative towards Jack. Many potential Jack listeners were probably biased against the station from day 1.So Yes I do think Jack would have had a better chance for success if it was launched on a different frequency.

 

[IonRadio]

Interestingly enough, a poster on another thread (this board) pointed out that for decades, WCBS-FM was associated with moldy oldies (50s-early 60s) for so long that the younger people don't realize the change. Jack needs much more promotion for the next two quarters, but I think Infinity will handle that.
This leads me to an intriguing theory: Advertisers say the older demos are not likely to try new things and different products than they have for some time, but it seems to be the younger demos who haven't switched from their regular radio habits enough to realize "Jack" is on the air (speculation, of course).
Anecdotal evidence: how many people realy spend time changing the pre-sets on their radios after doing it once -- and how do they change stations?
Also, the Jack format rarely plays music in the narrow scope of many of the younger demos.
Back to the "Moldy Oldies" theory: many people below 50 see the early oldies as their Parents' music, and being associated with it for so long, how much more promotion would it take for these people to even stray from their presets on to Grandpa's radio station and see what it has?
If Infinity gives Jack more time, it will succeed.
Also, "Moldy Oldies" is fast becoming the next "Standards," where many small local AMs will put on the canned music for older people to save a few dollars and get some numbers, albeit the elderly crowd.
Just a theory.

 

[eggsdannythomas]

Chicago's Jack is a pretty good station, but I think Infinity will eventually realize they f*cked up by alienating a large segment of their listenership that enjoyed oldies.

In L.A. they simply flipped a tired Classic Rocker, too many of those, so it wont be missed. But 2 of the country's heritage oldies stations -- big mistake, even if the older listeners aren't as desirable to advertisers.

You'll see in the next few months (when Howard leaves) WCKG and WXRK flip to oldies. Both stations suck, it's a win-win for them.

In Chicago all the oldies jocks are still under contract, how about in NYC?

 

[JerseyJim]

> But 2 of the country's heritage oldies stations -- big mistake, even if the older listeners aren't as desirable to advertisers.


Actually there was a third--WQSR in Baltimore. Bob Worthington and Fast Jimi Roberts were there at the time of the switch. Both NY radio alum. Worthington is now doing weekends on WBIG in DC. Fast went back to afternoons on co-owned Mix 106.5.

 

[RobertGoldberg]

96-97% of all listeners did not listen to CBS FM when it was oldies. I doubt very much that all those people are upset that a station they never listened to doesn't exist anymore. Bring back oldies on NEW FM or any other station wouldn't be a win win for Infinity or any other station owner who would be stuck with an age group that the Advertisers don't want anymore. They would all face the same problem CBS FM faced, a shrinking advertiser base with an aging audience. It was like being the last owner of a buggy whip company. The last company had biggest share of a shrinking market and eventually went out of business. Is Jack the savior of radio? I doubt it. I don't think there is a savior anymore. If Jack or whatever can attract enough of the targeted demo that can make lots of money, even with half the audience of oldies. The truth with CBS FM as with all oldies stations is the music is burnt out. If you took away the Jocks and just left the music, probably no one would listen.

 

[Jacko]

I think the big problem was the fact that Jack-FM replaced a heritage radio station in WCBS-FM. People argue that there are listeners that think of WCBS-FM as the "moldy oldies" station that only plays 50s and 60s music. I think WCBS-FM was doing a nice job transitioning to a late 60s to 70s approach with the format. A lot of oldies stations have done well with the transition. If Infinity were to have put Jack on 102.7, with its revolving door of formats over the past few years, the format may have done better, but that's all speculation.

Perhaps over time things will get better. When the plug was pulled on WNEW (the rock one), lots of people were upset. But now Q104.3 is doing really well. Go figure...

Jacko<P ID="signature">______________
I live for my dream,
And a pocket full of gold.
</P>

 

[smg_ktu]

> In Chicago all the oldies jocks are still under contract,
> how about in NYC?
>

I kinda am led to believe that was the point, frankly... to get rid of the "heritage talent" (not my words) and save the $$$$.

I saw that station as bowing to the altar of radio's legends, and the suits took care of that one...

 

[RobertGoldberg]

>
> In Chicago all the oldies jocks are still under contract,
> how about in NYC?
>

In Chicago, the jocks agreed to give back part of their severance package and take a 50% pay cut to be on the HD2 channel. In New York they didn't agree to it and are no longer under contract.

 

[RobertGoldberg]

Q-104.3 is hardly a replacement for WNEW FM but they are doing well now.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

> > In Chicago all the oldies jocks are still under contract,
> > how about in NYC?
> >
>
> I kinda am led to believe that was the point, frankly... to
> get rid of the "heritage talent" (not my words) and save the
> $$$$.
>
> I saw that station as bowing to the altar of radio's
> legends, and the suits took care of that one...
>
That's how I also thought things to be, but a friend pointed out that perhaps the intent was more to draw alot of attention to the station(Jack) the best way possible. Putting the station on the WCBS frequency, knowing there'd be anger toward the change, perhaps was intended to also draw attraction to the change too, for those who want Jack...wether or not it is working...I guess time will tell.
<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by YeziKnoradio on 09/20/05 11:30 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[OldiesCat]

I'm sure that was their intent but they messed up by not bringing Oldies back to another signal. We can argue all day & night that the Oldies format is or isn't toast, but WNEW-FM has been in the #22 ranked range 25-54 and the former CBS-FM left us ranked #8. Even if they only got another couple of years out of the format AND regained some goodwill in the community, it would have made total sense to do it.

Maybe that's the flaw in the theory- would've made sense <LOL>


> >
> That's how I also thought things to be, but a friend pointed
> out that perhaps the intent was more to draw alot of
> attention to the station(Jack) the best way possible.
> Putting the station on the WCBS frequency, knowing there'd
> be anger toward the change, perhaps was intended to also
> draw attraction to the change too, for those who want
> Jack...is is working...I guess time will tell.
>

 

[radiolover78]

> >
> > In Chicago all the oldies jocks are still under contract,
> > how about in NYC?
> >
>
> In Chicago, the jocks agreed to give back part of their
> severance package and take a 50% pay cut to be on the HD2
> channel. In New York they didn't agree to it and are no
> longer under contract.
>

Good for the CBS FM jocks. Besides. How many people have an HD radio? Not many.<P ID="signature">______________
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</P>

 

[radiolover78]

> I'm sure that was their intent but they messed up by not
> bringing Oldies back to another signal. We can argue all
> day & night that the Oldies format is or isn't toast, but
> WNEW-FM has been in the #22 ranked range 25-54 and the
> former CBS-FM left us ranked #8. Even if they only got
> another couple of years out of the format AND regained some
> goodwill in the community, it would have made total sense to
> do it.
>
> Maybe that's the flaw in the theory- would've made sense

WCBS FM was a great station that was lost and it would have been smart to put oldies back on 102.7 or 92.3, but remember the major factor? $$$$$$$$ I thought you would have known this. Oldies just doesn't sell anymore on the radio. The advertisers aren't interested. I know you know this. Plus 102.7 is on the rise, improving the presentation and really starting to sound like a good station. In New York, Infinity is sticking with these new formats and I believe Jack will stick around for a while. Maybe K Rock will stay a while, even after Stern leaves, since they have this "Great Rock" thing going on, even though I think that KRock will fail.

>
>
> > >
> > That's how I also thought things to be, but a friend
> pointed
> > out that perhaps the intent was more to draw alot of
> > attention to the station(Jack) the best way possible.
> > Putting the station on the WCBS frequency, knowing there'd
>
> > be anger toward the change, perhaps was intended to also
> > draw attraction to the change too, for those who want
> > Jack...is is working...I guess time will tell.
> >
>
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The Place for the Latest Happenings in Radio
www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>

 

[DjJosB05]

> Could 101.1 Jack FM's lack of success so far be in huge part
> because of the bad buzz by it replacing CBS-FM? I know that
> seems an obvious question but in other markets where Jack
> replaced Oldies, it's doing quite well. Could the huge
> swell of negative press indeed backfired on Viacom (vs.
> putting the Jack format on another frequency)?
>
> I still maintain it could've been a win/win doing their Jack
> deal then coming back with the Oldies format on WNEW-FM a
> couple of weeks later.
>
> (BTW- I'm not fishing for and will not respond to "Jack
> sucks" postings by the Jack format haters. That's not the
> question, so please save your breath-thanks).
>

I think that Oldies is a format needed in NYC. Oldies works here but not in other markets for some reason. Plus it just won't be the same when I go to Little Italy to a restaurant and they won't be playing CBS FM in the background. Maybe it would be doing better if it were on lets say... WBLS or WNEW.

JC<P ID="signature">______________
"George Bush doesn't like Midgets"
NYC & CT Radio Lover
"KTU needs to change to a current dance format"
http://www.staticfiends.com/images/beavis-butthead.jpg</P>

 

[musicloverII]

Good points. Right on target and merit serious discussion.

> I'm sure that was their intent but they messed up by not
> bringing Oldies back to another signal. We can argue all
> day & night that the Oldies format is or isn't toast, but
> WNEW-FM has been in the #22 ranked range 25-54 and the
> former CBS-FM left us ranked #8. Even if they only got
> another couple of years out of the format AND regained some
> goodwill in the community, it would have made total sense to
> do it.
>
> Maybe that's the flaw in the theory- would've made sense
>
>
> > >
> > That's how I also thought things to be, but a friend
> pointed
> > out that perhaps the intent was more to draw alot of
> > attention to the station(Jack) the best way possible.
> > Putting the station on the WCBS frequency, knowing there'd
>
> > be anger toward the change, perhaps was intended to also
> > draw attraction to the change too, for those who want
> > Jack...is is working...I guess time will tell.
> >
>

 

[OldiesCat]

I do know about the $$$$$$$- but CBS-FM was making a ton more dough than WNEW-FM every day, week, month and year. Again, a no-brainer. Increase the standing of the #22 station in town, ratings AND revenue-wise.


> WCBS FM was a great station that was lost and it would have
> been smart to put oldies back on 102.7 or 92.3, but remember
> the major factor? $$$$$$$$ I thought you would have known
> this. Oldies just doesn't sell anymore on the radio. The
> advertisers aren't interested. I know you know this. Plus
> 102.7 is on the rise, improving the presentation and really
> starting to sound like a good station. In New York, Infinity
> is sticking with these new formats and I believe Jack will
> stick around for a while. Maybe K Rock will stay a while,
> even after Stern leaves, since they have this "Great Rock"
> thing going on, even though I think that KRock will fail.
>
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > That's how I also thought things to be, but a friend
> > pointed
> > > out that perhaps the intent was more to draw alot of
> > > attention to the station(Jack) the best way possible.
> > > Putting the station on the WCBS frequency, knowing
> there'd
> >
> > > be anger toward the change, perhaps was intended to also
>
> > > draw attraction to the change too, for those who want
> > > Jack...is is working...I guess time will tell.
> > >
> >
>

 

[radiolover78]

> I do know about the $$$$$$$- but CBS-FM was making a ton
> more dough than WNEW-FM every day, week, month and year.
> Again, a no-brainer. Increase the standing of the #22
> station in town, ratings AND revenue-wise.


They were still making lots of money, but they lost, what 20% of revenue in the past 5 years. I just know they were losing money and had to switch, unfortunatley. I believe WNEW is doing well revenue rise and they are rising in ratings.
>
>
> > WCBS FM was a great station that was lost and it would
> have
> > been smart to put oldies back on 102.7 or 92.3, but
> remember
> > the major factor? $$$$$$$$ I thought you would have known
> > this. Oldies just doesn't sell anymore on the radio. The
> > advertisers aren't interested. I know you know this. Plus
> > 102.7 is on the rise, improving the presentation and
> really
> > starting to sound like a good station. In New York,
> Infinity
> > is sticking with these new formats and I believe Jack will
>
> > stick around for a while. Maybe K Rock will stay a while,
> > even after Stern leaves, since they have this "Great Rock"
>
> > thing going on, even though I think that KRock will fail.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > That's how I also thought things to be, but a friend
> > > pointed
> > > > out that perhaps the intent was more to draw alot of
> > > > attention to the station(Jack) the best way possible.
> > > > Putting the station on the WCBS frequency, knowing
> > there'd
> > >
> > > > be anger toward the change, perhaps was intended to
> also
> >
> > > > draw attraction to the change too, for those who want
> > > > Jack...is is working...I guess time will tell.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>

 

[Seven_Costanza]

> Could 101.1 Jack FM's lack of success so far be in huge part
> because of the bad buzz by it replacing CBS-FM? I know that
> seems an obvious question but in other markets where Jack
> replaced Oldies, it's doing quite well. Could the huge
> swell of negative press indeed backfired on Viacom (vs.
> putting the Jack format on another frequency)?

An exact big complaint of mine. If you have a station that's failing (K-Rock), one that's failed (Blink/MIX/Whatever) and one that's about to fail (WCBS), why change the least worn tire first? The same can be said with Chicago (pick WBBM/WXRT, WCKG & WJMK)

> I still maintain it could've been a win/win doing their Jack
> deal then coming back with the Oldies format on WNEW-FM a
> couple of weeks later.

Serious question... has the reincarnation of a format on another station ever happened? I'm curious what the results might have been.

> (BTW- I'm not fishing for and will not respond to "Jack
> sucks" postings by the Jack format haters. That's not the
> question, so please save your breath-thanks).
>
Jack sucks. Just kidding. Lighten up Francis.

 

[peppertree]

What was WQEW? I thought that was the reincarnation of WNEW-AM.


> Serious question... has the reincarnation of a format on
> another station ever happened? I'm curious what the results
> might have been.
>
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