Re: Knoxville Oldies
>
> Most oldies stations test all songs they play to only play
> the "cream of the crop" songs designed to appeal to their
> very defined target demo.
>
> Are you telling me that most all oldies listeners will love
> early artists like Bill Haley and the Comets as well as
> later oldies artists like Three Dog
> Night. I doubt it that all will like both, but they have
> managed to sit through both on the same station, so why do
> you assume that listeners of the next age group won't do the
> same?
booger --- I have to jump in here...
I never said listeners "wouldn't sit through certain songs." You are the one
making the assumption that they will not when certain songs come on Jack and
that's another reason it is to broad and will fail. What I know is that people
scan constantly and that there is a "peaked interest" in the minds of listeners
as to "what is Jack doing NOW" and they go back to it and hopefully stay until
the next trainwreck they don't like. This happens in every format constantly. Listeners do scan and don't sit through lots of songs everyday. There is not
a lot of loyalty left. You just have to hope you do enough things right to
be the one they listen to more than the next guy. How can you say people won't
stick with Jack, but will sit through oldies songs they don't like? ---
>I doubt it that all will like both, but they have
> managed to sit through both on the same station
>
> You're assuming a lot about what I think about the oldies
> format. Who said anything about playing any oldies that were
> pre Beatles? In my book, music like Bill Haley isn't even an
> option for a modern oldies format.
No one in the newer target demo 45- (where the advertisers have been lulled into
believing the results are) wants anything from the 50's and the early 60's is
disappearing quickly, as you know. Now you have the all over the board sound
that you said failed on AM radio in the day - late 60's and the 70's. That
has caused a diminished interest in listening and the decline of Oldies as
a format. Plus, the 200-400 song playlist are to limited. One great example
of a successful Oldies station is Cumulus' Oldies 97.1 / Nashville that has
re-connected listeners by playing more rock Oldies. I have mentioned why it's
so strong in another post. It says it's an Oldies station, but it doesn't
always sound like an Oldies station, more like a Classic Rock station at
times (Stones, Free, etc.) So it transcends two groups of "oldies" listeners.
Sure, they both flee when something they don't like comes on.
>
> Also, who says these are songs that haven't been tested or
> that don't test well. I am quite sure that there has been a
> lot of research put into the "Jack FM" format and it's
> targeted age group. It may present itself as "anti format"
> or "anti radio", but rest assured, the songs have been
> tested just as with any other format.
Tested to the max, my friend. And I'll admit I think some of the crap people
picked as favorites is scary. But, they did. Also, you have to look at the
evolution process, which is something a small percentage of radio folks get
at this point, Jack knows people will get tired of even 1,200 songs. Especially
when many of the songs had "average success on the charts hits" but that's part
of the formula --- they were not over played as much as songs that were in the
Top 10 for 45 weeks, etc. It keeps listener fatigue from happening as quickly.
BUT --- Jack has to revamp it's music in and out every few weeks to keep listeners tuned in for the long haul --- and I don't know if that'll be part
of the ABC agreement which could hurt markets where Jack is not locally programmed. I take it to the level that Jack should and could be programmed
for time of day and even weather changes (pepped up on Sunny days) more
relaxed on rainy days and rocking harder at night, etc.
>
> Hey I'm very aware of the research behind the Jack format.
> I'm just saying it doesn't hold water. Sure every song tests
> well they play. But does each one of the songs selected test
> with a particular target demo. I can give you the very best
> classsic rock songs...top 40 songs...soft AC songs...etc.
> But no listener will sit through this in the long haul. I'm
> not convinced the Jack folks have narrowed down the reach to
> particular target. Otherwise, you wouldn't hear songs that
> are all over the road! Jack has too broad of a reach in
> their music in which the listener has to wade through a lot
> of songs to get to some he or she likes. Other formats have
> music that's much focused on one genre are much more focused
> to the target demo.
>
They are sitting through it /or returning a lot to Jack, because - in their minds - listeners have finally found a radio station that has bucked the trend and gone out on a limb --- and said screw the typical fare format of containment
(we play this and this, but we don't play that...) It's all about
showing those other radio programmers that they don't know Jack about
programming radio stations in the ears/minds of these listeners. And
the comment "to broad a range" and "narrowed down the reach" and
"one genre" and "focused to the target demo" are going to be the
new "has been" catch phrases. Seriously, I am with you on your thinking
because it's what everyone has been force fed for 40 years, but read
this sentence again and you see the real problem --- you have focused
and narrowed listeners right away from your station and it's ultimate
success. It like we planned to have 100,000 listeners, but we cut out
70% of the music to play it safe and never offend listeners, so we
have only 30,000 listeners, but they are loyal except when a song
they don't like comes on, which means we loose about 6,000 a song
or commercial, which means we have 24,000 listeners tuning in and out
and have a 3.0 share.
> The "anti-format" thing is more about imaging and connecting
>
> with the listener than an actual true statement.
100% correct. It connects. Howard Cogan, I am convinced, will be the
single biggest factor since Casey Kasum or Rick Dees. His "attitude"
is part of the gig. He's quick, to the point and it's all about him...
btw, the favorite smart--- comments are about how HE is going to make
some money for himself on commercials --- something no one would have
ever touched before because "listeners might figure out we are using
them to make money." You know the drill.
>
> The "anti-format" thing is backwards! "Playing What We Want"
> makes absolutely no connection with the listener. It should
> be "Playing What You Want". It's not about us...it's about
> the listener.
The fact is that most listeners don't believe non-Jack radio stations do
"play what they want to hear" They know all the songs are researched,
"suggested by record companies" and narrowed down to the max by radio
con-sultants. That's why other music sources are growing quickly.
It's only about the listener to an extent --- that's true for Jack
and all other formats. Radio still thinks it knows best what the
listener wants to hear and how they want to hear it. A 65 song playlist
vs. a 1200-1500 playlist shows which format is willing to play more
songs for the listener? I think Jack is more on the listeners side...
less talk, less bells and whistles, more music, more music variety,
maximum music variety, no repeat work WEEKS, and yes, some songs that
just really suck. Law of averages dictates that'll happen. Hopefully,
Jack will add new songs and take off the least popular and elevate
upward more and more and sound fresher as it goes. That's the plan.
As for the "Playing what we want" and what listeners think of it...
I'll leave this one for my friend Oldiescat...he's been fighting that
battle for months.
I will say, listeners do get the attitude and especially in the AM
they like iJack better than four hours of NON MUSIC in the morning
when they are to busy to listen to some clown ramble on about something
not even funny, but centered about/around the experience of the person
on the air and not connecting with the listener. Meanwhile, Cogan is
making 12 word comments and playing MUSIC which is what radio used to
be about IN THE DAY. And getting ratings and all this talk. Who is really
connecting?
But, booger, I will say this in all honesty, I have been that 4 hour
morning talker and I can say looking back it was a fun and successful
ride, but this Jack thing is also a success. Like everything, it could
change tomorrow. The fact that you are so passionate and well thought
is an incredible testimony to who you are and how much you love the
radio industry is something I hope never changes. I'd would like to
shake your hand and hear your stories, cause I bet you have some great
stories to tell. And, honestly, that is where Jack can't go...no matter
how hard he tries...and that's the sad part of where the evolution
of this industry will eventually go for competitive and finacial
reasons. I mean no ill will or disrespect for you in my posts, because I
think you are a true gentleman.
