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Jack's Secret

A

asap

Guest
How come nobody ever talks about what REALLY makes the "Jack-FM"
stations so successful? (And, most are)

A huge marketing blitz at launch. Heavy TV and billboards!
The format is decent. But the BRANDING and MARKETING are exceptional.

Any station would increase their share with the kind of budget
MOST Jack-FM's throw out there.

Let's don't forget quality Marketing may be as important as Programming.
It's all about recall for the diaries.

If the Jack's don't continue to market their stations, those signals will
return to the lower half of the Arbitron ratings where they were before, just like any other station that is not marketed.

The secret to Jack's success? MARKETING! Other format's should take note!
 
good observation- the same goes for all successful products.


>
> The secret to Jack's success? MARKETING! Other format's
> should take note!
>
 
Jack's Secret is MARKETING! That's all!

Yes, Jack's Secret is MARKETING!

> good observation- the same goes for all successful products.

That's also why Windows is almost universal
and OS/2 is long forgotten -- at least on
the personal desktop.

Even Windows partisans agree that it's a
crappy, buggy O/S. It has been a kludge
since 3.0 that I know of and probably before.

But IBM blew its marketing for OS/2 in
every way imaginable. Even though OS/2 in
'91 did what Windows still couldn't do years
later. (Yes, I was there.)

And everyone's heard the story about
VHS vs. Beta. Same thing.

> > The secret to Jack's success? MARKETING! Other format's
> > should take note!

Yes. Good marketing will make the inferior
product win. Every time.

What does that say about us as consumers?

Nothing good.

73s from 954
 
a little high on the soapbox

what you and so many others are missing is LOTS OF RADIO LISTENERS LIKE JACK, a lot in many markets. The fact you color them less than intelligent or as gullible is moot.

Using your logic, one could make the same case (for instance) that political-leaning talk radio. Or country. Or rock.

So, I think it's important to understand we're not in the judgement business or the education business- radio is SHOW BUSINESS, it's entertainment. And if listeners are entertained by Variety Hits stations in big numbers, that makes it a worthy format (whether some in radio choose to dislike it or not).

>
> Yes. Good marketing will make the inferior product win. Every time.
>
> What does that say about us as consumers?
>
> Nothing good.
>
> 73s from 954
>
 
Re: a little high on the soapbox

> what you and so many others are missing is LOTS OF RADIO
> LISTENERS LIKE JACK, a lot in many markets. The fact you
> color them less than intelligent or as gullible is moot.

<B R>OLDIES CAT! I AM SICK AND TIRED OF YOU SMOKING YOUR CHEAP DOLLAR STORE WEED![/b]

LAUNCH A RADIO STATION WITH RADIO PERSONALITY USING THE SAME MUSIC IN THE SAME MARKET AND IT KICKS A**!!!!!!!!!!!

DOWN WITH NEW YORK'S AUTOMATED RADIO! How ironic! JACK NY is at 101 on the dial at a time when they really need to learn radio 101!
 
soapbox

With few exceptions, the Jack or Variety Hits format is catching on, big in many places. You can yell at me all you like- Jack's success isn't my doing or my opinion but hard ratings fact in dozens of markets across America.

Last time I checked, the only votes that count are those cast with Arbitron, not by "I'm paranoid about having fewer chances at being a jock, so I'll hate Jack and maybe I can rescue a miserable radio career" rants.

(and, it's not cheap dollar store week- it's the GOOD STUFF!)


>
> OLDIES CAT! I AM SICK AND TIRED OF YOU SMOKING YOUR CHEAP
> DOLLAR STORE WEED!
>
> LAUNCH A RADIO STATION WITH RADIO PERSONALITY USING THE SAME
> MUSIC IN THE SAME MARKET AND IT KICKS A**!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> DOWN WITH NEW YORK'S AUTOMATED RADIO! How ironic! JACK NY is
> at 101 on the dial at a time when they really need to learn
> radio 101!


> > what you and so many others are missing is LOTS OF RADIO
> > LISTENERS LIKE JACK, a lot in many markets. The fact you
> > color them less than intelligent or as gullible is moot.
 
Re: soapbox

For the love of God, get off Jack's leg!

> With few exceptions, the Jack or Variety Hits format is
> catching on, big in many places. You can yell at me all you
> like- Jack's success isn't my doing or my opinion but hard
> ratings fact in dozens of markets across America.
>
> Last time I checked, the only votes that count are those
> cast with Arbitron, not by "I'm paranoid about having fewer
> chances at being a jock, so I'll hate Jack and maybe I can
> rescue a miserable radio career" rants.
>
> (and, it's not cheap dollar store week- it's the GOOD
> STUFF!)
>
>
> >
> > OLDIES CAT! I AM SICK AND TIRED OF YOU SMOKING YOUR CHEAP
> > DOLLAR STORE WEED!
> >
> > LAUNCH A RADIO STATION WITH RADIO PERSONALITY USING THE
> SAME
> > MUSIC IN THE SAME MARKET AND IT KICKS A**!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > DOWN WITH NEW YORK'S AUTOMATED RADIO! How ironic! JACK NY
> is
> > at 101 on the dial at a time when they really need to
> learn
> > radio 101!
>
>
> > > what you and so many others are missing is LOTS OF RADIO
>
> > > LISTENERS LIKE JACK, a lot in many markets. The fact
> you
> > > color them less than intelligent or as gullible is moot.
>
 
soapbox

Ha, ha- that's about 50 times you've tried that old and tired insult. Please stick it somewhere. It's as worn out as you apparently are.

The more blind you act, the more foolish you look (which, right about now, is at an all-time high).

> For the love of God, get off Jack's leg!




> > With few exceptions, the Jack or Variety Hits format is
> > catching on, big in many places. You can yell at me all
> you like- Jack's success isn't my doing or my opinion but hard
> > ratings fact in dozens of markets across America.
> >
> > Last time I checked, the only votes that count are those
> > cast with Arbitron, not by "I'm paranoid about having
> fewer chances at being a jock, so I'll hate Jack and maybe I can
> > rescue a miserable radio career" rants.
> > (and, it's not cheap dollar store week- it's the GOOD
> > STUFF!)
> >
> >
> > >
> > > OLDIES CAT! I AM SICK AND TIRED OF YOU SMOKING YOUR
> CHEAP
> > > DOLLAR STORE WEED!
> > >
> > > LAUNCH A RADIO STATION WITH RADIO PERSONALITY USING THE
> > SAME
> > > MUSIC IN THE SAME MARKET AND IT KICKS A**!!!!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > > DOWN WITH NEW YORK'S AUTOMATED RADIO! How ironic! JACK
> NY
> > is
> > > at 101 on the dial at a time when they really need to
> > learn
> > > radio 101!
> >
> >
> > > > what you and so many others are missing is LOTS OF
> RADIO
> >
> > > > LISTENERS LIKE JACK, a lot in many markets. The fact
> > you
> > > > color them less than intelligent or as gullible is
> moot.
> >
>
 
Re: soapbox

> Ha, ha- that's about 50 times you've tried that old and
> tired insult. Please stick it somewhere. It's as worn out
> as you apparently are.
>
> The more blind you act, the more foolish you look (which,
> right about now, is at an all-time high).
>
> > For the love of God, get off Jack's leg!

It's the first time I've ever seen that comment posted here...must be a New York board wear out, huh?

I will agree though, that if Jack stays automated, and it's as wonderful in ratings as presented on this board time and time again...wouldn't other guy down the dial go same music with personality? The 3 E's + Jack music = good (enough) ratings. (great...maybee, but I'm not going to say so until it drives out an automated Jack...)


<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
 
just askin'

Yes, a very old drone from NYC and occasionally this board.

What I wonder about with Jack and Personalities: what if there is no outcry for DJs? What if listeners are saying, "y'know, I'd kind of like some DJs but really I'm loving the fact I get all this cool music without the typical blah blah blah". I don't think any of us really know if having jocks makes one VH station better than a direct local competitor? We ASSUME it would be an advantage- but that's probably our radio bias speaking. The knee-jerk response to that would be "well, of course having jocks makes the station better!". Sez who?

And, if that's what listeners say they want, why not put our radio egos aside and give them what they want? What a concept!

(I know all the paranoid and insecure with jump all over me for saying this-
so be it.)


>
> It's the first time I've ever seen that comment posted
> here...must be a New York board wear out, huh?
>
> I will agree though, that if Jack stays automated, and it's
> as wonderful in ratings as presented on this board time and
> time again...wouldn't other guy down the dial go same music
> with personality? The 3 E's + Jack music = good (enough)
> ratings. (great...maybee, but I'm not going to say so until
> it drives out an automated Jack...)
>
 
Re: just askin'

If Jack is really different, it should make sense that
it not have air personalities. It's a sad fact that
until Jack in Nashville, with the exception of one
other station, you could NOT hear much/any music in
the morning.

Imagine scanning 25 stations+/- and NOT hearing one
song? It happens. Now it doesn't. And Jack is #1
AM Drive.

Even more interestingly, the Nashville Jack has been
(and still is) repositioning musically toward a younger
female demo and away from 25-54M to make it easier
to target the same audience as sister station Mix.

Classic rocker WNRQ should be happy. But, where's the
money demo anyway?

The females prefer less talk than us old men! I sort
hate to say it, but it's this 40+ year-old-men's radio mindset
that have not kept up with the times to a great degree.
I can say that because I am that age (not old!) Ha!

Eye opening for me? Yes. And South Central Communications
said try the skew toward women after posting the highest
combined ratings of WJXA/WCJK EVER! That's what radio should
be about. Conquer, combat, embrace and always be testing
the waters instead of festering in stagnation.
 
askin'

Do you ever get up to Louisville KY and hear WLUE-FM, the V.H. station there, or to Indy to hear Jack or the Track?


> If Jack is really different, it should make sense that
> it not have air personalities. It's a sad fact that
> until Jack in Nashville, with the exception of one
> other station, you could NOT hear much/any music in
> the morning.
>
> Imagine scanning 25 stations+/- and NOT hearing one
> song? It happens. Now it doesn't. And Jack is #1
> AM Drive.
>
> Even more interestingly, the Nashville Jack has been
> (and still is) repositioning musically toward a younger
> female demo and away from 25-54M to make it easier
> to target the same audience as sister station Mix.
>
> Classic rocker WNRQ should be happy. But, where's the
> money demo anyway?
>
> The females prefer less talk than us old men! I sort
> hate to say it, but it's this 40+ year-old-men's radio
> mindset
> that have not kept up with the times to a great degree.
> I can say that because I am that age (not old!) Ha!
>
> Eye opening for me? Yes. And South Central Communications
> said try the skew toward women after posting the highest
> combined ratings of WJXA/WCJK EVER! That's what radio should
>
> be about. Conquer, combat, embrace and always be testing
> the waters instead of festering in stagnation.
>
 
Re: I think there's more to it than marketing

> The secret to Jack's success? MARKETING! Other format's
> should take note!
>

The new Jack station here in San Antonio appears to have spent zero dollars on marketing since the flip in January. I've seen no outdoor, no newspaper and no TV announcing this station's arrival in the market.

Speculation on the SA board here is that the formerly moribund hard rocker will crack the Top 5 in the next book. That's consistent with the word of mouth that I've seen among my peers.

Personally, I've spent more hours listening to Jack since January than I spent listening to FM all last year. It's a great mix of music in an appealing package without a bunch of clutter.
 
Re: askin'

OC - I've heard the original Cogan liners for Indy. I have seen the
Louisville playlist, but not heard them locally. Whatcha thinkin'?

I like the playlist of 1045 jack. I'd classify it as skewing younger
than 'CJK. Time will tell on that, though/

For those of you who actually like the VH format, this site
is popular: http://www.geocities.com/billyjanderson2005/

Hope all is well.
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by tibbs on 02/23/06 03:06 AM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: just askin'

Jack, in the Toronto market, with no djs fell to a 1.7 share in the morning, down from a 3.2, so people DO want a morning show there.

I'm waiting for the spring book before commenting on other timeslots.

The other important detail absent is how much a morning person is paid.

Here's the facts that may have led to a Jockless Jack in Toronto Canada:

Sister station CHFI FM 98 (soft rock) decided to lean toward a younger audience, so they fired the morning team, assuming it wouldn't fit into the new younger listener base.
THEY WERE DEAD WRONG!

Station down the dial picked up one of the two morning personalities and the ratings for "EZ" rock went from the floor to where CHFI used to be, and CHFI (5.7 share, down from a ten or 11 something share) went into panic mode!

Hiring a morning team that came from a top 40 station failed miserably!
CHFI fired the top 40 team and then proceeded to fire the Jocks on Jack around the exact same time the Morning team was Stolen from "EZ" rock.

Something had to pay for that.
People don't just go back to the station they were fired from if they're cozy where they are now, and to add insult to injury, they(CHFI) learned the hard way that they also had to bring the original "EZ" rock morning Jock over too, just to save the mess they created.

The morning man left on a good note, thanking "EZ" for being so good to him over the years.
The offer HAD to be insane...money borrowed from the cost of a Jock on Jack perhaps? (For BOTH parties involved)

The thought on my mind at this second in time, is that this may very well be what is going on in various markets in BOTH Canada and the US...not as careless or drastic perhaps, but...could it be that a morning team at one end of the dial in some markets is being paid an insane amount of money to prevent competition at the other end of the dial from stealing their morning show?

Before diving into the whole "No compete clause" the next question is: Could it be that a Jack is Jockless so that a morning team can go on the air down the dial sooner, and payments for breaking the clause can be made?...just a thought.


> Yes, a very old drone from NYC and occasionally this board.
>
> What I wonder about with Jack and Personalities: what if
> there is no outcry for DJs? What if listeners are saying,
> "y'know, I'd kind of like some DJs but really I'm loving the
> fact I get all this cool music without the typical blah blah
> blah". I don't think any of us really know if having jocks
> makes one VH station better than a direct local competitor?
> We ASSUME it would be an advantage- but that's probably our
> radio bias speaking. The knee-jerk response to that would
> be "well, of course having jocks makes the station better!".
> Sez who?
>
> And, if that's what listeners say they want, why not put our
> radio egos aside and give them what they want? What a
> concept!
>
> (I know all the paranoid and insecure with jump all over me
> for saying this-
> so be it.)
>
>
> >
> > It's the first time I've ever seen that comment posted
> > here...must be a New York board wear out, huh?
> >
> > I will agree though, that if Jack stays automated, and
> it's
> > as wonderful in ratings as presented on this board time
> and
> > time again...wouldn't other guy down the dial go same
> music
> > with personality? The 3 E's + Jack music = good (enough)
> > ratings. (great...maybee, but I'm not going to say so
> until
> > it drives out an automated Jack...)
> >
>
<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
 
Re: I think there's more to it than marketing

Time will tell. Most new stations need more than word of mouth
to reach sufficiently high levels.

The outside advertising may not have kicked in, yet. Sparknet,
who own's the "Jack" brand, requires you to market in their contract...
unless that has changed in the last 12 months.



> The new Jack station here in San Antonio appears to have
> spent zero dollars on marketing since the flip in January.
> I've seen no outdoor, no newspaper and no TV announcing this
> station's arrival in the market.
>
> Speculation on the SA board here is that the formerly
> moribund hard rocker will crack the Top 5 in the next book.
> That's consistent with the word of mouth that I've seen
> among my peers.
>
> Personally, I've spent more hours listening to Jack since
> January than I spent listening to FM all last year. It's a
> great mix of music in an appealing package without a bunch
> of clutter.
>
 
jack-jocks

Trust me, money (jock salaries) has almost nothing to do with Jack's being jockless. It has to do with responding to listeners who've become tired of the (as you accurately refer to it) typical, inane DJ clutter and chatter.

Most of me still believes most of the Variety Hits-type stations will eventually add some personality component (some already have). One thing I will not do is trash stations who chose to stay with the no-jock posture if it's working for them and their listeners like it. Isn't that what we're supposed to? Keep the customer satisfied?

(PS- the American/Canadian comparisons are shaky, at best. Different countries, very different tastes and cultural influences. Apples & oranges).


>
> Before diving into the whole "No compete clause" the next
> question is: Could it be that a Jack is Jockless so that a
> morning team can go on the air down the dial sooner, and
> payments for breaking the clause can be made?...just a
> thought.
>
>
> > Yes, a very old drone from NYC and occasionally this board.
> >
> > What I wonder about with Jack and Personalities: what if
> > there is no outcry for DJs? What if listeners are saying,
>
> > "y'know, I'd kind of like some DJs but really I'm loving
> the
> > fact I get all this cool music without the typical blah
> blah
> > blah". I don't think any of us really know if having
> jocks
> > makes one VH station better than a direct local
> competitor?
> > We ASSUME it would be an advantage- but that's probably
> our
> > radio bias speaking. The knee-jerk response to that would
>
> > be "well, of course having jocks makes the station
> better!".
> > Sez who?
> >
> > And, if that's what listeners say they want, why not put
> our
> > radio egos aside and give them what they want? What a
> > concept!
> >
> > (I know all the paranoid and insecure with jump all over
> me
> > for saying this-
> > so be it.)
> >
> >
> > >
> > > It's the first time I've ever seen that comment posted
> > > here...must be a New York board wear out, huh?
> > >
> > > I will agree though, that if Jack stays automated, and
> > it's
> > > as wonderful in ratings as presented on this board time
> > and
> > > time again...wouldn't other guy down the dial go same
> > music
> > > with personality? The 3 E's + Jack music = good (enough)
>
> > > ratings. (great...maybee, but I'm not going to say so
> > until
> > > it drives out an automated Jack...)
> > >
> >
>
 
sound

I've been through all 3 markets (plus others where Jack and other variations are on). Like the Nashville Jack better than most, like the Louisville "Louie" better- just seems more listenable, easier to use. And, their music doesn't seem as extreme on either end. I like some of the Jack smart-guy imaging but also like the Louisville imaging from the standpoint of lack of clutter and 'noise'. Their music seems to flow a lot better, even when they play Def Leppard next to Jewel or some similar segueway.

The Track in Indy does nothing for me- it's like a pop/ac version of Jack. Too much burned out ac music I've heard a thousand times (and a lot more r&b).


> OC - I've heard the original Cogan liners for Indy. I have
> seen the Louisville playlist, but not heard them locally. Whatcha
> thinkin'?
>
> I like the playlist of 1045 jack. I'd classify it as skewing
> younger than 'CJK. Time will tell on that, though/
>
> For those of you who actually like the VH format, this site
> is popular: http://www.geocities.com/billyjanderson2005/
>
> Hope all is well.
>
 
Re: sound

Do you remember what day(s) you were in Nashville and listened to
Jack? You may have heard the old Jack vs. the neweerr and imprroved
Jack. Sounds like I need a roadtrip to Louisville. Actually the
flow of 'CJK is not as consistent as it was, IMHO. Time will tell
on this. I did listen to 'JJK last night online and it sounded
pretty peppy.<- Is that proper spelling? Where's mburg, when
you need him (bad reference to N. FLA board)'AOK.
 
Re: sound

> You may have heard the old Jack vs. the neweerr and
> imprroved
> Jack.

Is this a good example of how Jack is a good idea?
Just asking, because I've said from day one, that Jack is a good idea because it is tweakable, without having to re launch, or what ever...<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
 
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