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Jack's "success"

S

Steppenwolf

Hey Oldies Cat, read it and weep. This is from the Washington Post.

"The introduction of a broader playlist last spring on adult contemporary WRQX-FM ("Mix 107.3") did little to arrest its slide. The station fell from a tie for 13th among local stations to 15th, despite a much-promoted move to a format known in the industry as "Jack," offering a wider mix of oldies and new music. A similar switch to "Jack" by New York powerhouse station WCBS-FM earlier this year has produced similarly tepid results, suggesting the format may be failing in its mission to combat the movement of listeners away from radio to iPods and other program-it-yourself listening."
 
And Oldies "Troll" Cat isn't going to like how Dallas and Denver both went DOWN today in the ratings.

Well, he won't care, he'll just spin it. After all, they are the two longest-standing US-Jack stations, and they continue to erode listeners.

But don't let facts get in the way.


> Hey Oldies Cat, read it and weep. This is from the
> Washington Post.
>
> "The introduction of a broader playlist last spring on adult
> contemporary WRQX-FM ("Mix 107.3") did little to arrest its
> slide. The station fell from a tie for 13th among local
> stations to 15th, despite a much-promoted move to a format
> known in the industry as "Jack," offering a wider mix of
> oldies and new music. A similar switch to "Jack" by New York
> powerhouse station WCBS-FM earlier this year has produced
> similarly tepid results, suggesting the format may be
> failing in its mission to combat the movement of listeners
> away from radio to iPods and other program-it-yourself
> listening."
>
 
No disrespect intended, but when you toss out the "spin" label, look in the mirror.

WRQX is not considered a Variety Hits station. WCBS-FM is a cluster-you-know- what and I've said so dozens of times. Dallas is #8 25-54 (out of about 50 signals). Denver has not yet caught on- my suspicion is the hole isn't wide enough between other formats.

Read THIS and weep- the following have seen dramatic increases in 25-54 adult ratings, several including L.A. and St Louis are #1 (most also way up 18-34):

JACK FM LA
WBEN-FM Philly
JACK-Minneapolis
JACK-Seattle
JACK-Indy
JACK-Baltimore
JACK-Nashville
THE PEAK-Phoenix
THE ARCH-St Louis
BOB-FM- Austin
THE BUS-Des Moines
JACK-Dallas
CHARLIE-Portland
CHARLIE- Madison WI
JACK- Jackson MS
BOB-FM- Spokane
JACK FM- Buffalo

That's not even all of them. This is not my opinion, this isn't a subjective statement- it's based on the latest Arbitron Ratings.

So, what's next? You cats will counter "well, they're not all #1" or "but look at New York City and Chicago" and "yeah, but this one went down" or what-ever.
All stations in all formats go up and they go down. If you want to continue kidding yourselves that Jack's a dud format, that's fine. Keep drinking the "Jack Sucks Kool-Aid" and remain laughingstocks among those of us who live in the real radio world.
 
> No disrespect intended, but when you toss out the "spin"
> label, look in the mirror.

No spin here, I'm just going by the numbers.

> Dallas is #8 25-54 (out of about 50 signals).

And where was it before. It was fifth, then seventh, now eighth. Do you see a trend here?


Denver has
> not yet caught on- my suspicion is the hole isn't wide
> enough between other formats.

Now that's a spin if I ever heard one. The station has been on for nearly TWO YEARS now. Sounds like you're blaming the listeners.



> Read THIS and weep- the following have seen dramatic
> increases in 25-54 adult ratings, several including L.A. and
> St Louis are #1 (most also way up 18-34):
>
> JACK FM LA
> WBEN-FM Philly
> JACK-Minneapolis
> JACK-Seattle
> JACK-Indy
> JACK-Baltimore
> JACK-Nashville
> THE PEAK-Phoenix
> THE ARCH-St Louis
> BOB-FM- Austin
> THE BUS-Des Moines
> JACK-Dallas
Uh, they're down, chief.

> CHARLIE-Portland
> CHARLIE- Madison WI
> JACK- Jackson MS
> BOB-FM- Spokane
> JACK FM- Buffalo
>
> That's not even all of them. This is not my opinion, this
> isn't a subjective statement- it's based on the latest
> Arbitron Ratings.

Yes it is subjective, because all of those stations (except Dallas) have been on for less than a year. Ad agencies judge whether to buy or not on a four-book average.


> So, what's next? You cats will counter "well, they're not
> all #1" or "but look at New York City and Chicago" and
> "yeah, but this one went down" or what-ever.

No, it's a question as to what you will spin with next. I've been providing examples to clear evidence that Jack has serious long-term viability issues, but all you do is spin things around.

I don't have anything against Jack itself, but I have something against people like you who either blame the listeners (Denver) or do not acknowledge problems in Jack's long-term success (Dallas).


> All stations in all formats go up and they go down. If you
> want to continue kidding yourselves that Jack's a dud
> format, that's fine. Keep drinking the "Jack Sucks
> Kool-Aid" and remain laughingstocks among those of us who
> live in the real radio world.

You're the laughingstock around here. You're on this board 24/7 being Mr. Apologetic about this format, refusing to acknowledge Arbitron proof that there are serious questions out there.

You can live in your own dreamworld if you want. Excuse us while we live in reality.
 
they're afraid of Jack!

How disappointing. I was expecting some lively, intelligent, fact-based exchange and every counter-point you made is weak and factually incorrect. You SAY I spin but I have no agenda other than to state a perspective based on FACTS.

Here's what I think is going on here: I'd bet a month's pay that nearly every anti-Jack post anywhere on this site has been made by programmers or jocks who are NOT and never have been successful(or they just don't get why Jack is all the buzz).

The reason this has to be true is that successful personalities would be putting this time into growing, learning and preparing to be a better, more entertaining personality all the time-- an everyday process.

On the other hand, frustrated, bitter and passed-over jocks have nothing better to do than rip and criticize anything they see (Jack mostly jockless so far) that could hint they may not be needed anymore. So, instead of getting better at what they do and finding ways to be more valueable to their radio stations, the sour grapes crowd gets a five-minute high slamming and criticizing something they're afraid of and feeling oh so noble. Sad and pathetic.

(watch now, boys n' girls- the fur will REALLY fly now)
 
> "The introduction of a broader playlist last spring on adult
> contemporary WRQX-FM ("Mix 107.3") did little to arrest its
> slide. The station fell from a tie for 13th among local
> stations to 15th, despite a much-promoted move to a format
> known in the industry as "Jack," offering a wider mix of
> oldies and new music. A similar switch to "Jack" by New York
> powerhouse station WCBS-FM earlier this year has produced
> similarly tepid results, suggesting the format may be
> failing in its mission to combat the movement of listeners
> away from radio to iPods and other program-it-yourself
> listening."
>
Let me butt in here. First, WRQX is not a JACK branded station. Hell, it's not even a variety hits station. It is a lame AC that stunted with their morning guy (who's first name happens to be Jack) a while back. Wacky DJ Jack Diamond "locked himself in the studio" and oooo the fun began. They added a number of cuts to spread out the Celine Dion rotation and got some press.

As for everyone's whipping boy, WCBS-FM, the bleeding has stopped and the cume and sampling are trending back up. Let's add another hard and fast rule: Don't blow up the legendary oldies station after 33 years without fireproof undies.

CJ
 
Denver was the first U.S. JACK and it is run by the local owners. First, why do you think that 105.5 gets ratings in the 2.0 to 2.5 range in the Denver ADI, while it is the #1 station for Fort Collins? Easy. It doesn't cover the entire Denver metro. The signal is a move-in from Wyoming.

As for Dallas...it is the #8 station 25-54 out of about 50 stations. Infinity can bank some great change from that. Maybe having the PD as a corporate VP is a problem. Dunno.

Speaking of interesting ratings on problem freqs, check out WBUF. The 92.9 in Buffalo has not been out of the mid-2s in years (12+) even with Stern. They have been rock, talk, rock/talk, etc. Book today shows the station spring to summer going from a 2.5 to a 4.2 and the #10 spot overall. I'll assume some excellent adult demos will be reported too.
 
Re: they're afraid of Jack!

Fact of the matter is: KJKK Dallas and KJAC Denver both went down today, whether you want to acknowledge that or not.

This is an internet discussion board. I'm not getting my jock in a knot over your words. My paycheck is going to clear, and I'm going to get a good night's sleep.
 
Re: they're afraid of Jack!

The Buffalo market is very interesting right now.
Jack FM beat out the lake for ratings, and is giving WBUF the best ratings the station has had in years...

Ah, but here's the bigger picture here: (with intent to ask question, not attack or assume)

107.7 FM was an FM sports station prior to being sold recently to Entercom.

When Entercom bought Buffalo's WNSA(107.7FM) they had the perfect opportunity to launch their version of Jack in Buffalo. (Fickle can be heard in Rochester, and there's also a Mike in Boston, and others they own)

Instead, they launched the Lake.
The Lake was launched at a time when 92.9 was eliminating their rock format and...went Talk fm for 6 months. (YES! 6 months!)

Entercom knew that Infinity isn't a stupid company.
They knew that if Their (Entercom's) version of Jack didn't sign on at 107.7, 92.9 would launch a Jack FM in Buffalo.
Instead, they went with the lake.
WHY?
Shortly after lake was born, Jack was born in Buffalo.

Did Entercom see something or miss something?

Note: Jack beat lake by a share (see R&R)

Oldies cat wrote:

> How disappointing. I was expecting some lively,
> intelligent, fact-based exchange

Sorry oldies cat, it's the best I can do.<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
 
> Speaking of interesting ratings on problem freqs, check out
> WBUF. The 92.9 in Buffalo has not been out of the mid-2s in
> years (12+) even with Stern. They have been rock, talk,
> rock/talk, etc. Book today shows the station spring to
> summer going from a 2.5 to a 4.2 and the #10 spot overall.
> I'll assume some excellent adult demos will be reported too.
>
Please read my post further down in this thread.
Also note:

Prior to Rock they(Buffalo's 92.9) were dancin' oldies, Alice (AAA?) Smooth Jazz, Soft hits, Mix 92.9 FM.(oldies and new music mixed) and solid gold prior to that.
That station has done just about everything prior to Jack... (Please see my
posting further down this thread. Thanks)

<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
 
Re: they're afraid of Jack!

> Fact of the matter is: KJKK Dallas and KJAC Denver both went
> down today, whether you want to acknowledge that or not.
>
> This is an internet discussion board. I'm not getting my
> jock in a knot over your words. My paycheck is going to
> clear, and I'm going to get a good night's sleep.
>


Great.

Tell that to all the people who used to make typewriters.
Face it, you will be out of a job next Thursday. Sleep while
you can.

Sorry, seriously PI.

Has anyone ever noticed that formats like
COUNTRY,
ROCK,
CLASSIC ROCK,
TOP 40,
CHR,
JAZZ,
CHRISTIAN
URBAN,
TALK,
SPANISH,
AC,
HOT AC,
JO,
even oldies...

etc.
have gone down in ratings ever so often and yet NO one
claims their sky is falling? Yes, it just radio, but why
is something like "another format" causing such an uproar
if it's not viable or virtually a non-issue?

You know the answer...it's lying in the paychecks.
Welcome to the next level of radio, good, bad, indifferent,
like sand in the hourglass....
 
afraid of Jack!

I'm not referring to you. It's the bitter-beer-face radio crowd.
>
> Sorry oldies cat, it's the best I can do.
>
 
afraid of Jack!

> Fact of the matter is: KJKK Dallas and KJAC Denver both went
> down today, whether you want to acknowledge that or not.


Right, except for the fact you're trying to use those two examples to make it look like the format's failing overall. And nobody's buying it.
 
My opinion (and I think you'll agree)...

...IF (big if) Infinity flipped stations to JACK for pure profit motive (cut staff, cut overhead), then those stations are destined to fail.

IF (again, big if) Infinity is committed to the concept and are willing to "grow" the format (whatever they feel that may entail, not necessarily adding jocks, but at least committing more resourses to it than throwing on some TV commericals), then they stand a fighting chance.

Of course all this is subject to change, given the vaguearities of individual markets and the fact that in 12 months time the next big push might be towards Top 40 Gregorian Chants 24/7...
 
>
> > Dallas is #8 25-54 (out of about 50 signals).
>
> And where was it before. It was fifth, then seventh, now
> eighth. Do you see a trend here?

But when it was CHR, it didn't do jack (no pun intended). 100.3 probably hasn't done this well since it was R&B in the 1990s.

> Denver has
> > not yet caught on- my suspicion is the hole isn't wide
> > enough between other formats.
>
> Now that's a spin if I ever heard one. The station has
> been on for nearly TWO YEARS now. Sounds like you're
> blaming the listeners.

News flash: KJAC is not a Denver-market station. It is a Ft. Collins/Boulder- area station that has a marginal signal (at best) in Denver proper. I'd be willing to bet you can't pick up this station in a high-rise office building in downtown Denver, especially when you take it into consideration that it's sandwiched in between two powerful Denver signals at 105.1 and 105.9.


<P ID="signature">______________
"...and the countdown continues until the neanderthals that govern college football do something about their pathetic postseason."--Tim Brando, Sporting News Radio</P>
 
yer opinion

I agree. And, you are right on Jack Premise #2.

That's why I keep saying it's the paranoid/insecure in our business who are so afraid of Jack- they've fostered this notion that these are being put on all over the country to cut overhead/staff/benefits and THAT IS B.S. (I know for some of you, it's easier to believe the myth because it makes you feel justified in your anger- get over it).

I've predicted before these stations will have to be grown & developed (just like any format flip). The fact they've stayed jockless for this long has a lot people needlessly itchy. But if they don't begin to develop, they'll be "like an iPod on shuffle WITH commercials", and what would be the point in trying to compete with iPods and satellite?



> ...IF (big if) Infinity flipped stations to JACK for pure
> profit motive (cut staff, cut overhead), then those stations
> are destined to fail.
>
> IF (again, big if) Infinity is committed to the concept and
> are willing to "grow" the format (whatever they feel that
> may entail, not necessarily adding jocks, but at least
> committing more resourses to it than throwing on some TV
> commericals), then they stand a fighting chance.
>
> Of course all this is subject to change, given the
> vaguearities of individual markets and the fact that in 12
> months time the next big push might be towards Top 40
> Gregorian Chants 24/7...
>
 
Re: My opinion (and I think you'll agree)...

>
> Of course all this is subject to change, given the
> vaguearities of individual markets and the fact that in 12
> months time the next big push might be towards Top 40
> Gregorian Chants 24/7...
>

HILARIOUS! LOL! BRAVO!
 
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