Jackson's New 87.7 FM

[KirkSherwood]

Turn on 87.7FM! What is your opinion of the signal strength and quality? BTW: The processing is still being tweaked.

As an FYI ―87.7 FM, WLFM‒Chicago broadcasts “smooth jazz,” and according to the owner’s web site, WLFM is the 2nd highest rated station in Chicago among African-American listeners with a total cume of 497,200―#26 of 64 ranked stations. AQH-wise, WLFM is in the middle of the 12+ pack (#25 of 59 ranked stations). Being in the middle of the pack, is comparable to other smooth-jazz formatted stations.

 

[the golden boy]

All I hear right now is dead air.

 

[gritsandeggs]

Better keep tweaking, that audio is horrible. Songs fade and fade and fade like there's nothing pulling up the song. Signal strength? Ok I think, but what do you do with another non-comm?

 

[Jazz_Kat]

Turn on 87.7FM! What is your opinion of the signal strength and quality? BTW: The processing is still being tweaked.

As an FYI ―87.7 FM, WLFM‒Chicago broadcasts “smooth jazz,” and according to the owner’s web site, WLFM is the 2nd highest rated station in Chicago among African-American listeners with a total cume of 497,200―#26 of 64 ranked stations. AQH-wise, WLFM is in the middle of the 12+ pack (#25 of 59 ranked stations). Being in the middle of the pack, is comparable to other smooth-jazz formatted stations.

You're half right. : ) WLFM now airs a Smooth AC format from Broadcast Architecture.

Are saying it's a smooth jazz station? I'm out of state, that's why I'm asking.

 

[KirkSherwood]

You're half right. : ) WLFM now airs a Smooth AC format from Broadcast Architecture.

Are saying it's a smooth jazz station? I'm out of state, that's why I'm asking.

Thanks for the update! Most of the online trades list WLFM's format as Smooth Jazz (radio-info does not list a format for WLFM).

As to an earlier poster ― 87.7FM [WJMF] is below the non-com band. They can air all the commercials the sales department can sell!

 

[the golden boy]

It's on the air now but it doesn't sound like smooth jazz to me. The voiceover guy is calling the station EZ 87.7. The last few songs I've heard...

Phil Collins, "In Your Eyes"
James Ingram, "I Don't Have the Heart"
Hot Chocolate, "You Sexy Thing"
Tears for Fears, "Everybody Wants To Rule the World"
Jimmy Cliff, "I Can See Clearly Now"
Eagles, "Take It To the Limit"

Nice little mix of songs there. I may have to make room for a preset.

 

[flytrap]

I can pick it up in the car in Rankin County, but not in the house. I also tried to get it on TV channel 6 since its really a TV station anyway. I can get with the outside antenna. Since they have the audio cranked up to FM radio levels, its way too loud when listening on TV. There is a card on the screen which looks like call letters, but my plasma has a lousy analog tuner I can barely read it for the snow.
I was under the assumption that channel 6 was supposed to be part of WJMF TV 19, which used to be on channel 53. Both TV channel 49 and 53 (now 19) were dark for a while and were purchased by Rainey Radio and is listed as Kids Television LLC as the owner. Both Channel 19 and 53 had test patterns but no programming several months ago, but I haven't been to Jackson with a portable TV lately so I don't know if they are on the air or not. Both were at very low power and could barely make it into Pearl. Both stations used to have pretty good signals where I live. Can anyone shed any light on the stations, and where the "fake" radio station 87.7 fits into all of this?

 

[flytrap]

Sounds like some of the same stuff they are playing on 105.1

 

[w9wi]

I was under the assumption that channel 6 was supposed to be part of WJMF TV 19, which used to be on channel 53. Both TV channel 49 and 53 (now 19) were dark for a while and were purchased by Rainey Radio and is listed as Kids Television LLC as the owner. Both Channel 19 and 53 had test patterns but no programming several months ago, but I haven't been to Jackson with a portable TV lately so I don't know if they are on the air or not. Both were at very low power and could barely make it into Pearl. Both stations used to have pretty good signals where I live. Can anyone shed any light on the stations, and where the "fake" radio station 87.7 fits into all of this?

Channel 53 has a permit to move to channel 19, and then another permit to move to channel 6. Same tower on all three channels. 2kw on channel 6 - that's visual power. Arguably for a LPTV it would be legal to run the same power for the aural. It's all the same license, so at least theoretically only one channel - 6, 19, *or* 53 - should be operating at any given time.

Calls are WJMF-LP.

 

[Goodtimes1978]

;D I get such a kick out of reading these discussion boards. It's almost like reading a nut doctors notes. LOL. Questions answered with comments that don't even make sense. Folks wake up. I'm no expert on any of the radio or lptv business but good lord, i think before i looked like an idiot - i'd read up. Are you folks in the radio industry or wanna be? It's amazing to me, just the otherday i heard an "engineer?" (right,right, right....) try to explain to the inventor of some equiptment, that he (the inventor of the unit) was putting it together incorrect. Pretty stupid. Any grown adult with any brains knows that nothing in radio or television is going to be perfect on day 1. I'm sure when Walt Disney showed off his half drawn mouse cartoon back in the day, he had no idea what was to come. Alot of people are involved with the putting together this operation of WJMF TV 6 and 87.7 FM. Is it going to hit the air on day one at 100%, nope... Sorry. But, hey....I guess if it did, alot of people would be out of their nightly hobbie of explaining how everyone else needs to correct this, do that or I would do it this way... Too bad. No, it doesn't sound like Q105. Can 87.7 air commercials? Yes. non-comm rules do not apply to lptv6. do your homework. WJMF is LPTV6 and 87.7 FM, the comment of it being a "fake radio station", are you insane? Past decades i've WORKED in radio, it was on AM or FM... I SOLD commercials, voiced commercials, did a real radio show (never have been a lazy card reader), remotes and so on. Since 87.7 is on FM, can roll spots, have jocks with real shows, ect... there is nothing fake about it, doof. If you're in radio, get busy... you should have plenty to do for the org that pays your light bill. If you're not? Didn't make the cut? or got cut because you couldn't make the cut? Get over it, GET A JOB. I can assure you, that if you WORK in radio (not just hold a title or wish you could turn the clock back) You would have enough knowledge as a human to know that one thing is for sure. Nothing stays the same. Everything changes. You start and either progress or go. WJMF won't be the same in 3 years, 3 months, 3 days or even 3 minutes from now. What a grand idea, hummm.. i think i'll go out, put on a radio or tv station (or in this situation both) and I really want the automation to hang up, yesss... and maybe i'll just plug the processing up and look at it, rather than tweek it over a period of time to be the best it can be. Come on, nobody does that. My sweet Lord, with people around like this... no dang wonder radio is kickin' the bucket quick. experts, they always have the answer. Funny thing is they never know what the hel* they're talking about. Ahhhh, this is fun... I may have to add this to my list of daily entertainment. Nah, once every now and again is enough. Nothing helpful or decent to say or discuss? Evaluate what you do and how your performance and work ethic is. If you think it's good. Get busy you're not doing enough. You can do better. God Blesses even us.

 

[flytrap]

Wow. Touchy! I wasn't expecting a response like that. No I don't work in radio. And yes it IS a fake radio station. 87.7 is in the TV band. I'm perfectly aware that it is one of those low power TV audio only TV stations that have been popping up lately. Just because you can pick channel 6 audio on your radio doesn't make it a radio station. Its a TV station with no pictures. I used to have WMPR bleed in on channel 6 on my TV. But WMPR wasn't a TV station. I also used to have truckers on CB bleed into my car radio also. I really don't care if it is a real radio station or not. I'm listening to WJMF "TV" right now. On my television as a matter of fact, because I can't pick it up on my cheap radio. If it's not a TV station, what is it doing on my TV? lol.

 

[w9wi]

I am surprised someone bothered to launch one of these at this time. They're already on notice the FCC will require them to switch to digital operation by the end of next year. At that time you'll still be able to receive them on a TV set -- but they'll disappear from your radio. (even if you have a HD radio)

I guess they figure to make enough money in the next 20 months to pay for the channel 6 transmitter/antenna. They'd just better hope there's still a UHF channel left for them to move to when they go digital -- because channel 6 is going to be a pretty bad place for a digital TV operation, especially a low-power digital TV.

 

[KirkSherwood]

I am surprised someone bothered to launch one of these at this time. They're already on notice the FCC will require them to switch to digital operation by the end of next year. At that time you'll still be able to receive them on a TV set -- but they'll disappear from your radio. (even if you have a HD radio)

I guess they figure to make enough money in the next 20 months to pay for the channel 6 transmitter/antenna. They'd just better hope there's still a UHF channel left for them to move to when they go digital -- because channel 6 is going to be a pretty bad place for a digital TV operation, especially a low-power digital TV.

Please feel free to link us to the FCC notice requiring a change―let me save you some time, you will not be able to, because no such notice exists. When and if that time should ever occur, there is an antenna which will convert the digital signal so 87.7 stations can continue to broadcast on the FM band.

Perhaps this link will explain Myth vs. Reality to you.

http://ventechgroup.com/index.php?page=news&id=9

 

[KirkSherwood]

Now that the initial test is complete, 87.7FM will be off the air for a while to enhance audio processing, ect.

 

[tomservo]

Stray observations…

• If it doesn't show up in the FCC FM Query (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/fmq.html) then it isn't a real radio station.
  
  
• It's only in compliance with LPTV rules if the audio is within the specifications set forth for television broadcasts. If it's at FM levels of loudness, it may be in violation of those rules non-technical people like myself don't quite understand. I don't think FM stereo or an RDS encoder are part of TV audio specifications.
  
  
• Just because the FCC isn't knocking down the doors at every FM-LPTV outlet on channel 6 doesn't mean they are sanctioning these broadcasts.
  
  
• There's no guarantee that the FCC won't set a timetable to sunset analog LPTV broadcasting sometime in the future.
  
  
• The concept of broadcasting an analog audio signal while broadcasting a digital ATSC TV signal may be possible but is legally a gray area at the moment as far as I know.
  
  

Having said all that, I personally have no problem with the LPTV-6 "loophole" that's being exploited at the moment. It's an inexpensive way to get on FM. Unfortunately not all FM radios tune to 87.7. Of the four cars in my immediate family driveway, only two tune to 87.7 and none tune 87.5. I wholly expect that the FCC would sew the analog audio/digital visual gray area loophole thing shut if they ever set a sundown date for analog LPTV broadcasting. Luckily, I don't think that is on their agenda for the foreseeable future.

 

[w9wi]

(replying to KirkSherwood
http://www.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2010/db0917/FCC-10-172A1.pdf, in which the FCC expects LPTV stations to cease analog operation by the end of 2012.

I take it the portion of the Venture Technology page you're bringing up is the item about operating analog audio and digital TV on the same channel at the same time?

That's been tried by full-power station WRGB in Schenectady, New York. How well it worked I don't know. I'm a TV engineer, not at all ignorant about 8VSB modulation - nor analog.

**In theory** what WRGB did should work. However, that assumes everybody with a TV set is using a perfectly horizontally-polarized antenna, and everybody with a radio is using a perfectly vertically-polarized antenna. That is *nowhere near* being the case.

Whether it works from a technical standpoint or not, it doesn't work from a regulatory standpoint. The FCC ordered WRGB to cease & desist; today, they transmit only a digital signal. Now, I suppose the FCC *could* treat LPTVs differently. I wouldn't count on it.

_________________________________________________

• It's only in compliance with LPTV rules if the audio is within the specifications set forth for television broadcasts. If it's at FM levels of loudness, it may be in violation of those rules non-technical people like myself don't quite understand. I don't think FM stereo or an RDS encoder are part of TV audio specifications.
  
• There's no guarantee that the FCC won't set a timetable to sunset analog LPTV broadcasting sometime in the future.
  
• The concept of broadcasting an analog audio signal while broadcasting a digital ATSC TV signal may be possible but is legally a gray area at the moment as far as I know.
  

In my opinion, the existing channel-6-LPTV-as-FM-radio-station operations (including this one) are legal. (but read above; I'm an engineer, not a lawyer!)

Most of the technical regulations that apply to LPTV stations are incorporated by reference. They don't actually appear in the LPTV rules -- instead, the LPTV rules include a specific list of full-power rules in Part 73 that also apply to LPTV stations regulated by Part 74. **The regulations limiting aural power to 22% of visual, and limiting aural peak deviation to 25KHz are not among the full-power rules included in the LPTV rules.**

Nothing in the TV rules prohibits use of the FM stereo system or RDS. Back when we still had full-power analog TV stations, it would have been legal for full-power stations to do this. Wouldn't have made any sense (unless the station was on channel 6) as nobody would have had a receiver that would pick it up, but it would have been legal. The TV rules do require that if you use 31.5KHz as your pilot frequency you have to use BTSC stereo -- but the FM stereo system uses 38KHz.

 

[KirkSherwood]

For whatever reason, whenever an 87.7 enters the market the boards turn into an engineering debate over whatever.

Hopefully, this will answer and conclude the engineering portion (it won’t but just giving it a shot). If you are an engineer you are undoubtedly familiar with Richard Bogner, veteran engineer and owner of 87.7 NYC―we have successfully broadcast a digital television signal with our Axcera transmitter, while keeping the analog aural carrier on the air with the use of a separate analog FM transmitter.

When 87.7 returns to the air, it would be wonderful to hear opinions on the signal reach, quality and format. If you cannot pick up 87.7 in your car, I believe there are a number of Jackson car dealers who would love to solve your dilemma.

 

[flytrap]

What would be cool is if these channel 8 tv stations would play music videos so you could either watch it on TV or listen on the radio. I'm not sure they could get the broadcast rights to all those videos, maybe afilliate with "thecooltv" which is an over the air music video network. I'd rather it be local, but it would be nice to watch it over the air when I'm at home.

 

[w9wi]

Hopefully, this will answer and conclude the engineering portion (it won’t but just giving it a shot). If you are an engineer you are undoubtedly familiar with Richard Bogner, veteran engineer and owner of 87.7 NYC―we have successfully broadcast a digital television signal with our Axcera transmitter, while keeping the analog aural carrier on the air with the use of a separate analog FM transmitter.

I don't doubt you can *transmit* both signals simultaneously. There's nothing at all magic about that.

I don't even claim it's impossible to *receive* them. (theory strongly suggests it should work very poorly on real-world equipment, since real-world receiving antennas rarely if ever exhibit *only* horizontal polarization (for TV) or *only* vertical polarization. (for FM)) (but I didn't visit Schenectady during WRGB's experiment, so can't say it's *impossible* for this to work in practice.)

I do know as a fact the FCC didn't buy it for full-power operation in Schenectady. I wouldn't be betting any non-trivial amount of $$ on the chances of them buying it for LPTV.

 

[flytrap]

not sure what they did when they "fixed" the processing. but now it sounds muddy and it is badly distorted. It was much better before when they were testing.