January '24 Buffalo and Rochester trends

[Rusty Bridges]

While referencing the Persons 12+ ratings, with all the usual caveats, to a friend, I went down the list and entered the "zero point something" realm, and it struck me ... WWKB, once the mighty and nearly immovable (as WKBW) turns in a zero point 2 share.

The present day KB might as well be on a morphine drip: Zero point two. Even sadder, this once paragon of Top 40 ratings and revenue is edged out by pipsqueak, peanut whistle, insignificant AMs like WEBR (which BTW isn't nearly 100 years old ... only the call letters which mean absolutely nothing to non-radio people and those younger than 65), WLVL, WBBF and WWWS and WUFO ... none of which cracks a one share.

It's a sad final chapter for KB, with the aging hero on a heart monitor, flat-lining to Plate Voltage/Carrier Off. No new format, no oldies format, no gambling format, can save this relic. Sure, Audacy clears its betting format, and the frequency provides an avenue for spillover programming ... and the Triple A Buffalo Bisons, who are equally poorly rated, but the time has come to "call it." There would be no surprise and no meaningful outcry (other than commentary heard at a wake) if the emerged-from-bankruptcy Audacy sells the land on Big Tree Road to developers.

WWKB ... "We Were KB."

 

[TheBigA]

WWKB, once the mighty and nearly immovable (as WKBW) turns in a zero point 2 share.

There are hundreds of once-mighty AM stations that are either in the .2 area or have flipped to either religious or Spanish. That's the fate of the once-mighty KHJ in LA. Go through the list of all the AM Top 40 stations the boomers grew up with. WEAM in DC was one of the first stations to play The Beatles. They now run Radio Sputnik from Russia! Times change. It's possible if the Buffalo cluster is sold, you'll see something like that at WWKB. The future will not be like the past.

 

[RadioGuy1864]

There are hundreds of once-mighty AM stations that are either in the .2 area or have flipped to either religious or Spanish. That's the fate of the once-mighty KHJ in LA. Go through the list of all the AM Top 40 stations the boomers grew up with. WEAM in DC was one of the first stations to play The Beatles. They now run Radio Sputnik from Russia! Times change. It's possible if the Buffalo cluster is sold, you'll see something like that at WWKB. The future will not be like the past.

The issue in Buffalo is there are no ethnic minority groups large enough to support a commercial station full time, especially one on AM. We all know even religious broadcasters are shunning purchasing AM stations too. The reality is very bleak for KB. The tower land was already transferred to Audacy Atlas, it's only a matter of time before the land is sold to a developer. I can't see the new owners of Audacy spending money to diplex the station, so the license will probably be surrendered.

 

[davideduardo]

There are hundreds of once-mighty AM stations that are either in the .2 area or have flipped to either religious or Spanish. That's the fate of the once-mighty KHJ in LA. Go through the list of all the AM Top 40 stations the boomers grew up with. WEAM in DC was one of the first stations to play The Beatles..

Particularly in the case of WEAM, a lot of those 50’s and 60’s “big” stations were terrible technical facilities.

WEAM was on 1390 and so directional at night that it missed much of the expanding metro. But the competitor, WPGC was a daytime on a worse frequency. When PGC upgraded its FM antenna height and power in 1970 it was all over for WEAM.

Similar fates befell other bad-signal AMs as more FM became competitive and improved their signals. WNOE in New Orleans, WQXI in Atlanta, KENR in Houston, WMAL in Nashville, WKGN in Knoxville, KYA in San Francisco, KRIZ, KUPD and KRUX in Phoenix, KLIF in Dallas, WDGY in the Twin Cities, WCOP in Boston, WPOP in Hartford, WIXY in Cleveland, WSAI in Cincy, and many many more signal deficient AMs died due to poor coverage just as much as due to the better sound and other FM advantages.

 

[TheBigA]

Particularly in the case of WEAM, a lot of those 50’s and 60’s “big” stations were terrible technical facilities.

Which is probably why they ended up playing rock & roll. The better facilities were full service or MOR.

This one is 50K, but at the upper end of the dial, like WFME (previously WQXR) in NYC.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

The future will not be like the past.

Concur. No contention. I'm fully aware. Simply chronicling reality. It would be no surprise to see KB go dark or downgraded to a much lower power, losing most of the protections it once had. It may become like one of the upper (1610+) band AMs. !0kW day, 1kW night, non DA and subject to every interference created by man and machine.

 

[Mark1981]

Concur. No contention. I'm fully aware. Simply chronicling reality. It would be no surprise to see KB go dark or downgraded to a much lower power, losing most of the protections it once had. It may become like one of the upper (1610+) band AMs. !0kW day, 1kW night, non DA and subject to every interference created by man and machine.

I would not mourn WWKB going dark. In my mind, the beginning of the end occurred in 2006 when Entercom gave up on the oldies format with heritage personalities in favor of progressive talk. But in reality, how much longer would that have lasted? Maybe a few more years. But there’s no way we would still be listening to Danny “moving our fanny” in the morning in March 2024.

Indeed, KB is not alone. As outlined in this thread, most major cities had a Top 40 rocker on the AM band. They’re all gone. Some have gone dark. Others are barely surviving, like KB, with fringe formats. Even Audacy doesn’t care about BET 1520. When they promote the BET format in spots on the WGR stream, they’re pushing potential listeners to BET on the Audacy app, not KB.

Perhaps I wouldn’t have had a career in radio without KB. It certainly influenced me as a teen. I found my own path primarily in public radio. In college, I learned I didn’t have the voice or talent to be a KB-style jock. But listening to KB back in the day certainly inspired me. The station might go dark. But my memories never will. Listening to Danny in the morning and Sandy after school. The creative talent of Don Berns (who should be in the Buffalo Broadcasters Hall of Fame, BTW). Jack Armstrong at night, proclaiming the other stations should turn their transmitters off because EVERYONE was listening to him on KB. Yeah, those memories can never be extinguished!

 

[Theater of My Mind]

The reality is very bleak for KB. The tower land was already transferred to Audacy Atlas, it's only a matter of time before the land is sold to a developer.

Isn't the KB site also used by WGR 550? I doubt they're ready to give up on that one.

 

[TheBigA]

Isn't the KB site also used by WGR 550? I doubt they're ready to give up on that one.

Correct, they share a tower site, however that is one of several tower sites that are in the Atlas holding company:

FCC and public records searches show that fifteen tower sites have also been moved into the holding company. These include the pending to be sold sites for 610 KILT Houston and 720 KDWN/1140 KXST Las Vegas. Other sites moved into the LLC include the tower land for 550 WGR/1520 WWKB Buffalo, 670 WSCR/780 WBBM Chicago, 830 WCCO Minneapolis (both primary and auxiliary), 850 WEEI Boston, 1080 KFXX Portland, 1080 WTIC Hartford, 92.5 WBEE Rochester, 97.1 KFTK-FM St. Louis, 101.9 WLIF Baltimore, 106.7 KROQ Los Angeles, 107.7 WLKK Buffalo, and 107.9 WLZL Washington DC.

 

[davideduardo]

Correct, they share a tower site, however that is one of several tower sites that are in the Atlas holding company:

But, as we know, not all sites are a match for directional AMs that have to move.

 

[RadioGuy1864]

Audacy could diplex WGR with WBEN on Grand Island. There's also the possibility of diplexing at the WWWS site. Not an engineer, so I can't say which site would be the better fit for WGR.

 

[Radiowaves]

I saw in a business report that the tower land in Hamburg is for sale for 300k. Seems hard to believe, buts it’s worth a “google”. That is where I found it.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

I saw in a business report that the tower land in Hamburg is for sale for 300k. Seems hard to believe, buts it’s worth a “google”. That is where I found it.

Link, please? Thank you.

Audacy could diplex WGR with WBEN on Grand Island. There's also the possibility of diplexing at the WWWS site. Not an engineer, so I can't say which site would be the better fit for WGR.

The 1400 site is not large, and not ideally suited for either WGR or WWKB (especially). It's on rock. Very poor conductivity. Low mhos. It was owned by Cumulus. but could have been sold to Vertical Bridge or American Tower. The tower also supports 103.3, for which it was primarily designed.

The WBEN site on Grand Island has considerable acreage and two superbly designed and built towers. The Buffalo Evening News built that site by the book. It's a legacy site, much like the present KB-WGR site. WBEN is 5kW DA-N, two towers and a very modest night pattern. Engineers consider WBEN to have the best day-night AM signal in Buffalo.

WGR, with 5kW non-DA day, has the best daytime AM signal in Buffalo, but its night time signal protects Cincinnati and Providence, RI; as well as a station on 550 in on one of Canada's maritime provinces. Consequently, WGR at night can be better heard in Toronto than in Lancaster or Batavia, communities east of Buffalo.

According to an RF engineer familiar with WGR, WBEN and WWKB, the WBEN Grand Island transmitter site could support WGR, but it would require re-configuring WGR's night pattern. WGR utilizes four towers at night from its present Big Tree Road, Hamburg site. One of the towers utilized in the WGR night array is part of the WWKB (full time) array.

Should Audacy propose to move WGR to WBEN's Grand Island site, WGR's daytime power may have to be marginally reduced. Night time power, directional from (WBEN's) two towers, almost certainly reduced. Here, some history: WGR many decades ago operated at 1kW DA-N with a far less restrictive DA pattern than required for 5kW DA-N.

Numerous engineers have said that WGR operated for years with an FCC variance on its 5kW night pattern because the southwest null (protecting Cincinatti) was temperamental and particularly difficult to maintain. That noted, the electrical length of the WBEN (930 kHz) towers would better work for WGR better than the present Big Tree Road towers (designed for 1520) which are electrically extremely short for 550 kHz.

Those familiar with the process of FCC construction permits relative to AM directional patterns know the approval process can be challenging. Making the present WWKB 50kW DA-1 pattern work from the two tower WBEN Grand Island site would present a major engineering challenge. The WBEN two tower Grand Island site might accomodate WWKB, but would require KB to reduce power, day and night. As such, Audacy may conclude that it's not worth investing in the additional steel and copper, to say nolthing of man-hours, to move KB to Grand Island and maintain a 50kW AM operation. In all likelihood, Audacy would apply for a significant reduction in day and night power for 1520, if not opt to completely take it dark.

A sad, but given-the-alternatives, predictable end to what once was a grand Top 40 radio station that today languishes in the sub-one-share realm.

 

[TheBigA]

A sad, but given-the-alternatives, predictable end to what once was a grand Top 40 radio station that today languishes in the sub-one-share realm.

All of the engineering complexities you outlined in your very detailed post are another reason why AM is on its death bed. Consider what's involved moving an FM tower vs. an AM. If you remove the emotional attachment some have for AM, you realize how crazy all of this is.

There's a lengthy thread on the Chicago board about the former WCFL, which is moving its tower and decreasing its power. One area resident wrote an informal objection to the proposal, based on nighttime listening, and the FCC dismissed his objection. The once mighty Super CFL will be taking a power hit. It has to happen. These AM stations were built when nearby suburbs were nothing but farmland. Now that land is filled with one-family homes and shopping centers. Even if you do things to overcome the audio quality issues, the engineering complications are making AM preservation almost impossible. The practical observation becomes that AM radio was meant for a different time, and that time has long passed.

 

[Radiowaves]

Link, please? Thank you.


The 1400 site is not large, and not ideally suited for either WGR or WWKB (especially). It's on rock. Very poor conductivity. Low mhos. It was owned by Cumulus. but could have been sold to Vertical Bridge or American Tower. The tower also supports 103.3, for which it was primarily designed.

The WBEN site on Grand Island has considerable acreage and two superbly designed and built towers. The Buffalo Evening News built that site by the book. It's a legacy site, much like the present KB-WGR site. WBEN is 5kW DA-N, two towers and a very modest night pattern. Engineers consider WBEN to have the best day-night AM signal in Buffalo.

WGR, with 5kW non-DA day, has the best daytime AM signal in Buffalo, but its night time signal protects Cincinnati and Providence, RI; as well as a station on 550 in on one of Canada's maritime provinces. Consequently, WGR at night can be better heard in Toronto than in Lancaster or Batavia, communities east of Buffalo.

According to an RF engineer familiar with WGR, WBEN and WWKB, the WBEN Grand Island transmitter site could support WGR, but it would require re-configuring WGR's night pattern. WGR utilizes four towers at night from its present Big Tree Road, Hamburg site. One of the towers utilized in the WGR night array is part of the WWKB (full time) array.

Should Audacy propose to move WGR to WBEN's Grand Island site, WGR's daytime power may have to be marginally reduced. Night time power, directional from (WBEN's) two towers, almost certainly reduced. Here, some history: WGR many decades ago operated at 1kW DA-N with a far less restrictive DA pattern than required for 5kW DA-N.

Numerous engineers have said that WGR operated for years with an FCC variance on its 5kW night pattern because the southwest null (protecting Cincinatti) was temperamental and particularly difficult to maintain. That noted, the electrical length of the WBEN (930 kHz) towers would better work for WGR better than the present Big Tree Road towers (designed for 1520) which are electrically extremely short for 550 kHz.

Those familiar with the process of FCC construction permits relative to AM directional patterns know the approval process can be challenging. Making the present WWKB 50kW DA-1 pattern work from the two tower WBEN Grand Island site would present a major engineering challenge. The WBEN two tower Grand Island site might accomodate WWKB, but would require KB to reduce power, day and night. As such, Audacy may conclude that it's not worth investing in the additional steel and copper, to say nolthing of man-hours, to move KB to Grand Island and maintain a 50kW AM operation. In all likelihood, Audacy would apply for a significant reduction in day and night power for 1520, if not opt to completely take it dark.

A sad, but given-the-alternatives, predictable end to what once was a grand Top 40 radio station that today languishes in the sub-one-share realm.

The industry trade I saw it on was called “Inside Radio” online. It lists that property for sale amongst many other Audacy assets, mainly real estate

 

[SirRoxalot]

Considering all the hoops you'd have to jump through and the costs to move WGR and/or WKBW, $300K seems like it's not enough money to bother with the move. If the land is sold, it will likely also mean the end of the grand old transmitter building on the site. Even though maintenance there has been lax for a long time, it's still one of those grand old 30s transmitter buildings. Once the towers and transmitters are gone it would be nice to see it repurposed.

 

[TheBigA]

Once the towers and transmitters are gone it would be nice to see it repurposed.

It's a beautiful art-deco style, typical of the period. I'm sure Scott Fybush has documented a lot of them in his years of the NERW. I've visited a few of them myself. The insides aren't usually as grand as the outsides. Very industrial. Not sure how they could be repurposed. One of the buildings I visited had asbestos problems. There was a big sunken concrete pit in the middle of the floor where the original transmitter once sat. While they look grand, they're basically cinderblock construction with stucco siding. I saw where one had the call letters removed and sent to a nearby museum. That may have been WCFL. There was a brass plaque on the door celebrating the Chicago Federation of Labor. A lot of the museums celebrate the programming and the people, but not so much the architecture and the studios.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

From a tour given me by one of the engineers years ago: The second floor interior of the WKBW-WGR transmitter building. This view from the raised control room for WKBW which also served as an emergency studio if power or studio-transmitter phone lines failed from the Buffalo studios to Big Tree Road.

As Big A and SirRoxalot recollected, these buildings were quite the impressive structures in their times. There is a massive gap (long covered) in the concrete floor where the blue rack appears in this picture. The gap was once filled by the oil-filled, two story modulation transformer for the old Westinghouse transmitter. An early 1960s vintage 10kW RCA transmitter (not pictured) is housed to the left of this control room at a 90° angle to the Harris transmitter. The reflection seen in the upper left hand corner of this pic is the window that falls below the first "W" of the WKBW on the exterior picture in Rox's post.

The railing between the transmitter and control room once extended the entire width of the facility and was a guidepost for public tours that reportedly were given once a week when the transmitter site was newly constructed. According to a legacy engineer, the tours ceased early in World War 2. This intrigues me because another engineer told me this facility was completed shortly after WW2. It may be that the building was constructed before WW2, as one engineer recollects, but the WKBW transmitter was upgraded after WKBW moved to 1520 kHz, as the second (legacy) engineer recollected.

There is a smaller transmitter housing and similar-sized control perch to the far right (not pictured) for the WGR transmitter. A newer, smaller transmitter can be seen in the very far right. The old WGR transmitter sat 90° perpendicular to the massive Westinghouse that once occupied the entire cavity now occupied by the Harris transmitter in the pic. WGR and WKBW were once co-owned by the Buffalo Broadcasting Corp ("BBC.") Ironic that they've again been co-owned by various companies since the mid-to-late 90s.

Indeed, there was a lot of asbestos in these buildings most of which has been abated and cleared, although as I look at the floor tiles in this pic, they appear to be early 60s vintage, which means they're chock full of asbestos. There is a small kitchenette and sleeping quarters to the right, behind the equipment racks. Both appeared rather crusty although functional when I toured this building.

One of the legacy engineers remarked that many years ago when WGR and WKBW engineers were on duty at the same time (after WGR and WKBW were broken up) a poker game would occasionally ensue between the two during the all night hours after maintenance was completed. History.

 

[davideduardo]

The industry trade I saw it on was called “Inside Radio” online. It lists that property for sale amongst many other Audacy assets, mainly real estate

But sometimes... actually quite often... real estate with one or more towers on it is sold to tower rental companies for the purpose of leasing to multiple clients. A sale does not always mean that the station will be removed.

 

[Radiowaves]

If Audacy did not reposition its sites, wouldn't Audacy have to lease the towers from the property owner?