Jay Coffey returns - boss radio hits

[davideduardo]

Mr. Hagerty, are you familiar with the pre-Boss radio music surveys, issued prior to July 1965? Supposedly they began sometime in 1963 and were similar to the Boss 30 surveys, but labeled as VIP, Very Important Platters.

I am unable to find data on these other KHJ surveys besides what Solanas has to offer (which are just two individual surveys from '63). I am basically looking for a listing of those number one songs from those specific surveys (1963 through July 1965, before the Boss 30 took over). If anyone can help with this, I'd appreciate any sources provided. If not, that's ok also.

KHJ was a very MOR station that was losing money and in dire straits when the owner of KGB convinced his friend at RKO to switch to Top 40.

As witness, there are songs by Lawrence Welk and Doris Day on the "VIP" chart.

I'm sure Michael knows the history of the chart... which is an amusing effort by an "old fart" station to copy something that teen stations did!

 

[davideduardo]

Not true. KHJ didn't speed up their records until the arrival of Gerry Petersen as PD in 1974. The practice ended under Charlie Van Dyke over a period of time (music carts had to be re-dubbed) in 1975-76. Hundreds of unscoped airchecks of KHJ bear this out.

The peak of accelerated music was in the 70's. Many AM stations did it, and a few FMs. The idea was that it made songs sound brighter than on the competition and that was perceived as a competitive advantage. Many PDs bought into that theory, including yours truly.

 

[TheBigA]

Not to mention that it allowed you to cram more songs into the same time. If you had a competitor in the market, you could claim you played more music.

 

[davideduardo]

The internet is digital. There is no need to over-process.

Maybe they want the dense sound that heavy compression and peak limiting gave. The pumping and sucking up of the background is annoying.

Loudness was a competitive factor when people used manual, mechanical tuning dials to scan the dial. That is not a consideration today.

I think that a properly set 80's era compellor (despite the need to go ADC and then DAC back) would give a touch of that (and I think one of the "apps" has a near-compellor sound) and lend that classic sound to the stream.[/SIZE]

 

[davideduardo]

It's all about throwback. And if you listen for about 2-3 hours straight, you'd hear a gold song or a song from the vault every so often per hour. This is not the station to listen to, if you only have 15 minutes.

The average Slacker or Spotify listening incident is 24 minutes. The average Pandora incident is 36 minutes.

If you are depending on lo-o-o-ong listening spans, then you are not going to have many listeners.

 

[davideduardo]

Not to mention that it allowed you to cram more songs into the same time. If you had a competitor in the market, you could claim you played more music.

The most that we could average in speed enhancement was about 2% to 2.5%. That is about 3 seconds on the average 60's or 70's song. Or perhaps 40 seconds aggregate in the hour... not enough for the average listener to notice.

I know that when I used the technique, we combined speed increase with the judicious use of a parametric equalizer and did each song individually. The accelerator turntable and the EQ unit were kept in the PD's office in a cabinet along with a single input board that fed a cart recorder... only two of us in the station besides the engineer knew what it was and what it did.

 

[michael hagerty]

If that's the case, then maybe my old RCA 45-rpm record player had a badly worn turntable belt. I know that when I played 45s, they always sounded much slower than they did on KHJ. So did any Los Angeles stations besides KHJ speed up their records? And did any record companies try to discourage the practice?

Steve: Unless one of the smaller stations tried it, KHJ was the first in L.A. (Buzz Bennett started doing it at KCBQ, San Diego in 1971. It and KAFY, Bakersfield took it to the greatest extreme, with singles running 49 or 50 rpm by 1974). Again, CVD put a stop to it when he became PD, though it took months to re-cart the library (Van Dyke or RKO being unwilling to authorize the overtime that Gerry Petersen had paid to speed it all up over the course of a weekend). It surfaced again at KTNQ, which launched the day after Christmas, 1976 with sped-up records.

While it worked in the early 70s against AM competitors who had nothing better to offer, the practice of speeding up records (or "tempo enhancement", as Jimi Fox called it at KTNQ) didn't do much for stations with competition on FM. The better fidelity offset any percieved "dragginess", and sped-up records became, like mono, overboosted midrange and that "pumping" sound Frank mentions in the audio processing, a stereotype of AM and a part of the argument that FM was superior.

Not only did record labels not actively discourage the practice, a couple of them engaged in it. Do a direct comparison between the 45 and LP versions of Bob Dylan's "Tangled Up In Blue" (1975) and Gerry Rafferty's "Baker Street" (1978), and you'll hear that both Columbia and UA did some "tempo enhancement" of their own. KCBQ played the Dylan single and it sounded ridiculous. By the time of "Baker Street", KTNQ had slowed the records back down to normal or near-normal.

 

[michael hagerty]

Mr. Hagerty, are you familiar with the pre-Boss radio music surveys, issued prior to July 1965? Supposedly they began sometime in 1963 and were similar to the Boss 30 surveys, but labeled as VIP, Very Important Platters, such as this:

http://www.las-solanas.com/arsa/surveys_item.php?svid=37902

I am unable to find data on these other KHJ surveys besides what Solanas has to offer (which are just two individual surveys from '63). I am basically looking for a listing of those number one songs from those specific surveys (1963 through July 1965, before the Boss 30 took over). If anyone can help with this, I'd appreciate any sources provided. If not, that's ok also.

Oldies: You won't find many. KHJ's brief attempt at Top 40 lasted only a few months in 1963...ended by a new GM who arrived in July of that year and changed course back to an adult information-oriented station (including a nighttime talk show by Michael Jackson, who would become a legend later in the decade at KABC). So the July 10th list at ARSA is one of the first, and it's possible the August 28th is the last. There wouldn't be a printed playlist again until the first Boss 30 in July of 1965.

Billboard says (in the June 29th, 1963 issue) that the then-new "Very Important Platters" lists were being mailed to more than 200 local record shops in the L.A. area. Whether that was one copy for display in the stores, or some for customers to take (as was the case with the later "Boss 30" and "KHJ Thirty" lists), they don't say. Having never seen any other than those two at the ARSA site, those two could be the only survivors.

By 1963, KRLA had eclipsed KFWB in the ratings, so if you're looking for the number ones from then until KHJ's first Boss 30, I'd go with the KRLA lists at Oldiesloon.

 

[michael hagerty]

KHJ was a very MOR station that was losing money and in dire straits when the owner of KGB convinced his friend at RKO to switch to Top 40.

As witness, there are songs by Lawrence Welk and Doris Day on the "VIP" chart.

I'm sure Michael knows the history of the chart... which is an amusing effort by an "old fart" station to copy something that teen stations did!

Basically accurate, David, though they did actually try to go Top 40, with Geoff Edwards as PD. Roy Elwell, who'd jocked at KRLA, went across the street and Bill Calder (who worked seemingly everywhere around the country in the 60s) did mornings.

Musically, I think Geoff was trying to dip a toe in the water and take it Top 40 gradually (not unlike what John Rook did with KFI in 1977). The VIP list is more remarkable for the hits that aren't on it ("Surf City", "Pride and Joy", "One Fine Day" ) than what songs are (KFWB the same week was playing Perry Como, Andy Williams, Patti Page, Eydie Gorme and Nat "King" Cole).

 

[davideduardo]

While it worked in the early 70s against AM competitors who had nothing better to offer, the practice of speeding up records (or "tempo enhancement", as Jimi Fox called it at KTNQ) didn't do much for stations with competition on FM.

But it could contribute to a "fresh" sound for an FM. I launched one in 1979 in a Top 15 market where not only did we enhance the speed, we edited our own "radio versions" of more than half the gold and most of the currents. The effect was to sound brighter and to be able to play more songs an hour (the average trim was about 2 minutes from the album version). Of course, it helped that we had a PD with perfect pitch who could actually find "missing notes" elsewhere in the song to build the right edit transition... and if he could not find them, he played them himself on about half a dozen instrument.

At one point, that edited, sped up station cumed 47% of all 12+ persons in the market which had about 40 stations, so the practice worked.

 

[davideduardo]

Basically accurate, David, though they did actually try to go Top 40, with Geoff Edwards as PD. Roy Elwell, who'd jocked at KRLA, went across the street and Bill Calder (who worked seemingly everywhere around the country in the 60s) did mornings.

Musically, I think Geoff was trying to dip a toe in the water and take it Top 40 gradually (not unlike what John Rook did with KFI in 1977). The VIP list is more remarkable for the hits that aren't on it ("Surf City", "Pride and Joy", "One Fine Day" ) than what songs are (KFWB the same week was playing Perry Como, Andy Williams, Patti Page, Eydie Gorme and Nat "King" Cole).

I never understood those Top 40's that slipped back towards MOR. In a number of markets, even bad imitations of the "Drake Format" just smashed them by not playing the crooners andda one, andda two andda three, Lawrence Welk.

 

[K.M. Richards]

I never understood those Top 40's that slipped back towards MOR. In a number of markets, even bad imitations of the "Drake Format" just smashed them by not playing the crooners andda one, andda two andda three, Lawrence Welk.

As Mike Hagerty said a couple of posts earlier, KHJ's experiment with top-40 was ended very abruptly by a new GM, who probably still thought in 1963 that this "rock and roll" thing was a fad that would run its course and everyone would go back to listening to Sinatra, Como, and the like before long. Therefore, in his eyes Geoff Edwards was wasting RKO's time and money, so he pulled the plug.

I also remember reading somewhere -- Don Barrett's column, perhaps, that someone who had worked for RKO in the early 60s said that Tom O'Neil, then president of General Tire (and therefore RKO's overseer) disliked rock and roll and only hired Bill Drake and Gene Chenault as consultants on the advice of Willet Brown (who then owned KGB and had Drake as his PD). So in 1963, it may well be that the GM who gave Edwards the green light for top-40 (Milt Klein or Marty Fleisler, perhaps?) got called on the carpet by corporate.

I can absolutely confirm that Ira Laufer, who I got to know about five years later when he and Bob Fox purchased KVEN up in my hometown of Ventura, was the GM ousted in favor of Drake-Chenault. He was upset about that for many years, especially as he was the guy who was kept in the dark while trying to answer the trade papers questions about KHJ's new format earlier in 1965. I think Ira thought he should have been allowed to stay on after being such a good corporate camper.

 

[michael hagerty]

But it could contribute to a "fresh" sound for an FM. I launched one in 1979 in a Top 15 market where not only did we enhance the speed, we edited our own "radio versions" of more than half the gold and most of the currents. The effect was to sound brighter and to be able to play more songs an hour (the average trim was about 2 minutes from the album version). Of course, it helped that we had a PD with perfect pitch who could actually find "missing notes" elsewhere in the song to build the right edit transition... and if he could not find them, he played them himself on about half a dozen instrument.

At one point, that edited, sped up station cumed 47% of all 12+ persons in the market which had about 40 stations, so the practice worked.

Cool. In Southern California, the FMs didn't go there. KKDJ and K-100 kept the speeds normal and in San Diego, B-100 toppled KCBQ playing music at standard speed...eventually KCBQ folded and went back to 45 RPM 45s.

 

[michael hagerty]

I never understood those Top 40's that slipped back towards MOR. In a number of markets, even bad imitations of the "Drake Format" just smashed them by not playing the crooners andda one, andda two andda three, Lawrence Welk.

KFWB never really got away from them. I was surprised when unscoped KFWB airchecks surfaced from 1958-1963 (its dominant years) to hear just how much MOR there was on their list...and how much of it played in all dayparts. Elliot Field had a daily Sinatra feature a little after 5 every afternoon as late as 1961. And at the time of the KHJ VIP chart, Lawrence Welk was only two and a half years down the road from a number one record ("Calcutta").

As you say, that music could be death, if you had a tougher, more rock and R&B-leaning competitor, which is how KRLA toppled KFWB.

 

[michael hagerty]

As Mike Hagerty said a couple of posts earlier, KHJ's experiment with top-40 was ended very abruptly by a new GM, who probably still thought in 1963 that this "rock and roll" thing was a fad that would run its course and everyone would go back to listening to Sinatra, Como, and the like before long. Therefore, in his eyes Geoff Edwards was wasting RKO's time and money, so he pulled the plug.

I also remember reading somewhere -- Don Barrett's column, perhaps, that someone who had worked for RKO in the early 60s said that Tom O'Neil, then president of General Tire (and therefore RKO's overseer) disliked rock and roll and only hired Bill Drake and Gene Chenault as consultants on the advice of Willet Brown (who then owned KGB and had Drake as his PD). So in 1963, it may well be that the GM who gave Edwards the green light for top-40 (Milt Klein or Marty Fleisler, perhaps?) got called on the carpet by corporate.

I can absolutely confirm that Ira Laufer, who I got to know about five years later when he and Bob Fox purchased KVEN up in my hometown of Ventura, was the GM ousted in favor of Drake-Chenault. He was upset about that for many years, especially as he was the guy who was kept in the dark while trying to answer the trade papers questions about KHJ's new format earlier in 1965. I think Ira thought he should have been allowed to stay on after being such a good corporate camper.

Worth noting that Willet Brown was not only the owner of KGB, but had a seat on the RKO Board of Directors. He also owned Hillcrest Cadillac in Beverly Hills, a tradeout with which got Drake and Jacobs new Cadillac convertibles as part of their compensation. And now you know why Johnny Williams had live Hillcrest reads in overnights.

Also, from the Billboard articles of the time, I think the new GM wasn't really music-focused. It looks to me like he wanted to build a personality and information station where the music would be secondary.

And the more I look at the KHJ VIP chart, the more I realize that Geoff was doing something revolutionary...at least in L.A. KMPC and KFI were album-oriented MOR. They didn't stick to the singles. Geoff had created the first hit adult music station as he began the transition to Top 40. It may have been L.A.'s first adult contemporary station.

 

[John Gallagher]

To add, the 45 version of Right Down The Line from Gerry Rafferty was sped up. I have a recreated copy in my own music library and it sounds much better sped up.
Baker Street's LP version also drags when comparing it to the better 45 version, in my opinion.

 

[oldies76]

Oldies: You won't find many. KHJ's brief attempt at Top 40 lasted only a few months in 1963...ended by a new GM who arrived in July of that year and changed course back to an adult information-oriented station (including a nighttime talk show by Michael Jackson, who would become a legend later in the decade at KABC). So the July 10th list at ARSA is one of the first, and it's possible the August 28th is the last. There wouldn't be a printed playlist again until the first Boss 30 in July of 1965.

Billboard says (in the June 29th, 1963 issue) that the then-new "Very Important Platters" lists were being mailed to more than 200 local record shops in the L.A. area. Whether that was one copy for display in the stores, or some for customers to take (as was the case with the later "Boss 30" and "KHJ Thirty" lists), they don't say. Having never seen any other than those two at the ARSA site, those two could be the only survivors.

By 1963, KRLA had eclipsed KFWB in the ratings, so if you're looking for the number ones from then until KHJ's first Boss 30, I'd go with the KRLA lists at Oldiesloon.

I was afraid of that. All I'm trying to do is verify an old special that KRTH did (yes...in the 80's) and which surveys were used to compile the data. I've got most of it. Just a time period in the 50's (1955 thru 1957) and a short period in the 60's (about October 1964 through the end of June 1965). The KRLA charts, #1 songs you suggested on Oldiesloon unfortunately do not match the list correctly I have for the L.A. #1 singles KRTH aired. KFWB also does not match song for song, beginning in later 1964. Not sure what other surveys KRTH could have used to compile their data, besides Hit Line for 1955 to 1957, which no one has reference to anymore.

The funny thing is that KRTH used the Fabulous Forty to compile their data from Feb 1958 through 1964 "Baby Love". According to KFWB, "She's Not There" is the next #1, but KRTH aired it as a #2 on another special the week before Labor Day. KRTH then played the next #1, "I'm Into Something Good" as scheduled, which leads me to believe that KRTH may have used another survey which actually had "She's Not There" as a #2. Confusing, yes! Either that or KRTH tweaked things back then.

I realize this is old stuff, but these surveys from L.A. have always kept me interested in the Los Angeles music scene, ever since KRTH aired them.

Thanks for checking anyways. I am sending you the link of the special (which I'm sure you've seen before in the past on other KRTH posts)

 

[Carlos Santana's Guitar]

Since when is audio delivered that clear on an internet stream? Yes, the pitch is up a tad, yes it's enhanced, but it's the music and jingles that are winners. And yes, they were played years back, but to hear them today with the jingles sounds great.

It's all about throwback. And if you listen for about 2-3 hours straight, you'd hear a gold song or a song from the vault every so often per hour. This is not the station to listen to, if you only have 15 minutes.

Beauty (in this case "sonic" beauty) is in the "ear" of the beholder. I've never thought of myself as a sonic purist. But that audio, to my ear, is just painful. There's no way I'd subject myself to even 15 minutes of it. The Drake jingles don't impact me. The music isn't unique enough to me to make it worth tolerating the processing. If it doesn't bother you, great. I'm happy you've found something that scratches your itch for "throwback." I was only expressing a personal concern about how that audio might be limiting (pun intended) potential listenership.

 

[michael hagerty]

I was afraid of that. All I'm trying to do is verify an old special that KRTH did (yes...in the 80's) and which surveys were used to compile the data. I've got most of it. Just a time period in the 50's (1955 thru 1957) and a short period in the 60's (about October 1964 through the end of June 1965). The KRLA charts, #1 songs you suggested on Oldiesloon unfortunately do not match the list correctly I have for the L.A. #1 singles KRTH aired. KFWB also does not match song for song, beginning in later 1964. Not sure what other surveys KRTH could have used to compile their data, besides Hit Line for 1955 to 1957, which no one has reference to anymore.

The funny thing is that KRTH used the Fabulous Forty to compile their data from Feb 1958 through 1964 "Baby Love". According to KFWB, "She's Not There" is the next #1, but KRTH aired it as a #2 on another special the week before Labor Day. KRTH then played the next #1, "I'm Into Something Good" as scheduled, which leads me to believe that KRTH may have used another survey which actually had "She's Not There" as a #2. Confusing, yes! Either that or KRTH tweaked things back then.

I realize this is old stuff, but these surveys from L.A. have always kept me interested in the Los Angeles music scene, ever since KRTH aired them.

Thanks for checking anyways. I am sending you the link of the special (which I'm sure you've seen before in the past on other KRTH posts)

Figured it out. It was KFWB. More likely that someone at KRTH screwed up than tweaked. It happens. They just goofed on "She's Not There".

 

[michael hagerty]

Beauty (in this case "sonic" beauty) is in the "ear" of the beholder. I've never thought of myself as a sonic purist. But that audio, to my ear, is just painful. There's no way I'd subject myself to even 15 minutes of it. The Drake jingles don't impact me. The music isn't unique enough to me to make it worth tolerating the processing. If it doesn't bother you, great. I'm happy you've found something that scratches your itch for "throwback." I was only expressing a personal concern about how that audio might be limiting (pun intended) potential listenership.

Amen. The danger in too faithfully recreating the sound of 60s and 70s Top 40 radio is that eventually you get to the elements that people switched to FM to get away from (bad fidelity, fatiguing processing, butcher-job edits, intrusive production elements).

I thought the Drake jingles (most of them, anyway) were great at the time and in the context of the time, but I'm so over having call letters sung at me.