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Jay Coffey returns - boss radio hits

michael hagerty said:
A long shot, but KRTH might have used KGB's charts for those few months of 1964 and '65. Or KYNO's. Both were Boss Radio and consulted by Drake at the time.
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I think you are on to something.

They probably checked record stores from the offset, but to do that you have to have a "base list" to start.

The PD would not ask about songs that they would not want to play (Lawrence Welk, take another bow) and would have to carefully nudge the store representative to name any hot movers or songs that were not asked about.

The "careful" comes from the fact that by the mid-60's we all knew that store reports were often full of hype. Stiffs were mentioned as movers because some record duck had said, "If you report Joe Shmoe's 'Silly Saturday Afternoon' to KHJ as climbing, we will give you a free box of The Beach Boys.

And the final chart often had texture-enhancing turntable hits programmed by the station but which did not sell.
 
DavidEduardo said:


I think you are on to something.

They probably checked record stores from the offset, but to do that you have to have a "base list" to start.

The PD would not ask about songs that they would not want to play (Lawrence Welk, take another bow) and would have to carefully nudge the store representative to name any hot movers or songs that were not asked about.

The "careful" comes from the fact that by the mid-60's we all knew that store reports were often full of hype. Stiffs were mentioned as movers because some record duck had said, "If you report Joe Shmoe's 'Silly Saturday Afternoon' to KHJ as climbing, we will give you a free box of The Beach Boys.

And the final chart often had texture-enhancing turntable hits programmed by the station but which did not sell.
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David:

I made an edit that I think confused things.

Oldies was asking about a KRTH countdown from the 80s that used songs that hit #1 on the KFWB and KHJ weekly charts, but appeared to have a gap of a few months where he wasn't sure of the source. I suggested KGB or KYNO as possibilities, then dug further and found that KRTH simply skipped a #1 song from KFWB.

In the direction you were going, KHJ rather famously launched using KRLA's playlist. By the time they published a Boss 30 8 or 10 weeks later, they had their own intel and were using their own numbers. But the phrase "...and KHJ's judgement of the record's appeal" is always the key to any KHJ chart number.

As much as I thought WABC was lame at the time for being last on records and playing so few of them, I've come to the belief that if you have to use a local radio station chart from the 60s or 70s, WABC's was probably the most accurate reflection of what was really happening on the street when it came to Top 40. Not playing it until it's selling removes the need to make up a number. And 21 or 22 records was probably as many as were selling at any one time in any meaningful quantities.
 
michael hagerty said:
Worth noting that Willet Brown was not only the owner of KGB, but had a seat on the RKO Board of Directors. He also owned Hillcrest Cadillac in Beverly Hills, a tradeout with which got Drake and Jacobs new Cadillac convertibles as part of their compensation. And now you know why Johnny Williams had live Hillcrest reads in overnights.
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Hmmm - that is an interesting sidelight with probably a more than a coincidental connection. KGB and KHJ were both among the four O&O stations (KDB and KFRC were the two others) of the old Don Lee network. The latter was sold to RKO after Don Lee's heir, Thomas Lee, committed suicide in the wake of an accident that left him in a wheel chair and frequently in custodial care. RKO promptly sold the stations in San Diego and Santa Barbara.

Lee (both Don and later Thomas) was also the Cadillac distributor for California prior to the accident. Like his (Don Lee's) mentor Earle Anthony's KFI/Packsrd operation the Lee broadcast and automobile operations were closely linked. Cadillac eliminated distributorships in the late forties (as did other automakers); several dealerships were sold to key Don Lee officials - the Symes family (whose scion was Thomas Lee's sales manager) still has their name on the one in Pasadena and presumably runs it. I don't know of Willet Brown's relationship to the Lees or if he was in a similar situation but it sounds plausible.

Incidentally KGB was started by the Pickwick Corp. a conglomerate which grew from its San Diego base in the twenties. The company was primarily involved in building hotels and consolidating inter-urban bus lines, eventually merging with Greyhound. Among their consolidated bus entities - Earle C Anthony's El Dorado Stages, which ran buses built on Packard chassis until just after WW1. That of course was several years before either KFI or KGB. Anthony in 1919 also had a directly owned dealership in San Diego which was no longer listed a few years later.
 
Dummy me! In 1963 I got my first record player which would play albums and not just 45-rpm singles. I used to see the KHJ VIP lists at the local record store. (Anyone here remember "records"?) I saved all the weekly KFWB and KRLA surveys but I didn't bother to collect the KHJ lists. Why? Because I didn't listen to KHJ and I never knew more than a third of the songs on each week's list. Dummy me! Now I wish I had them.

As for KHJ's "judgment of the record's appeal," Sammy Davis Jr.'s The Candy Man was shown as "New Music" on the May 2 1972 survey. It debuted at #29 the following week. Then it was gone. KHJ played it for only two weeks and meanwhile it went to number one nationally and stayed there for three weeks. How did someone at KHJ decide that the nation's biggest hit had no "appeal"? And while The Candy Man was number one nationally, what was KHJ's number-one song? Neil Diamond's Song Sung Blue. Neil had appeal and Sammy did not. Go figure!
 
LARadioRewind said:
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As for KHJ's "judgment of the record's appeal," Sammy Davis Jr.'s The Candy Man was shown as "New Music" on the May 2 1972 survey. It debuted at #29 the following week. Then it was gone. KHJ played it for only two weeks and meanwhile it went to number one nationally and stayed there for three weeks. How did someone at KHJ decide that the nation's biggest hit had no "appeal"? And while The Candy Man was number one nationally, what was KHJ's number-one song? Neil Diamond's Song Sung Blue. Neil had appeal and Sammy did not. Go figure!
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Many Record Charts were manipulated with money, similar to Payola
 
So you're saying that if Willy Wonka had offered to give KHJ a candy bar with a golden ticket inside the wrapper, they would not have stopped playing that song? :)
 
michael hagerty said:
Oldies was asking about a KRTH countdown from the 80s that used songs that hit #1 on the KFWB and KHJ weekly charts, but appeared to have a gap of a few months where he wasn't sure of the source. I suggested KGB or KYNO as possibilities, then dug further and found that KRTH simply skipped a #1 song from KFWB.
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Thanks Mr. Hagerty, I'll check those charts as well.
 
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LARadioRewind said:
As for KHJ's "judgment of the record's appeal," Sammy Davis Jr.'s The Candy Man was shown as "New Music" on the May 2 1972 survey. It debuted at #29 the following week. Then it was gone. KHJ played it for only two weeks and meanwhile it went to number one nationally and stayed there for three weeks. How did someone at KHJ decide that the nation's biggest hit had no "appeal"? And while The Candy Man was number one nationally, what was KHJ's number-one song? Neil Diamond's Song Sung Blue. Neil had appeal and Sammy did not. Go figure!
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Steve: It's remarkable they added "The Candy Man" in the first place. KHJ was in the process of dealing with the growing threat of KLOS (which would beat KHJ 7.0 to 4.0 in 7-Midnight by fall). They hired (and then fired) Jimmy Rabbitt in May of 1972. They were playing a couple of album cuts an hour. Basically, KHJ was trying to be hip.

Neil still was. KLOS played him (though not "Song Sung Blue"). He was three months away from selling out the Greek Theatre for ten consecutive nights and recording what, until "Frampton Comes Alive" five years later, would be the biggest-selling solo pop/rock live album of the 70s (maybe minus Elvis, maybe not---RCA was always dodgy about those figures). His last two singles went top 10 on KHJ. They'd played pretty much every single he released from May, 1966 on.

Sammy hadn't had a hit in three and a half years, had zero street cred and wasn't going to pop up on KLOS.

As for the songs, a syrupy, overly produced Anthony Newley Broadway-style tune from last year's big kid movie ("Willy Wonka") about candy versus a song about the restorative power of music from a singer-songwriter? C'mon. Especially given KHJ's mission at that moment in time, they made exactly the right call. What you don't play can't hurt you, and "The Candy Man" could have.
 
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PS: From about the same time, KHJ also turned its back on Gallery's "Nice To Be With You".

"KHJ's judgement of the record's appeal" meant quite a few records that were top 5 in Billboard didn't make the Boss 30. This from KHJ historian Ray Randolph:

Billboard No. 2
Barbara Ann - Beach Boys (1966)

Billboard No. 3
Valleri - The Monkees (1968)
Take a Chance on Me - ABBA (1978)
In The Navy - Village People (1979)

Billboard No. 4
The Pied Piper - Crispian St. Peters (1966)
Yummy Yummy Yummy - Ohio Express (1968)
Nice To Be With You - Gallery (1972)
The Lord's Prayer - Sister Janet Mead (1974)
Fight The Power - Isley Brothers (1975)
Mr. Jaws - Dickie Goodman (1975)

Billboard No. 5
1, 2, 3, Red Light - 1910 Fruitgum Co. (1968)
Please Come to Boston - Dave Loggins (1974)
Back Home Again - John Denver (1974)

And if you expand the list to records that went top 10 in Billboard, there are more songs KHJ passed on:

1967

Funky Broadway--Wilson Pickett
Nashville Cats--Lovin' Spoonful

1968

I Got The Feelin' and Say It Loud, I'm Black and I'm Proud--James Brown
You Keep Me Hangin On--Vanilla Fudge
I Say A Little Prayer--Aretha Franklin

1969

Atlantis--Donovan
Ballad of John & Yoko--Beatles
Rock Me--Steppenwolf

1970

Gimme Dat Ding--Pipkins

1971

Cherish--David Cassidy
What The World Needs Now/Abraham, Martin & John--Tom Clay

1972

Jungle Fever--Chakakas
Hey Girl--Donny Osmond
Sugar Daddy--Jackson 5

1974

Call On Me--Chicago
Steppin' Out--Dawn
You & Me Against The World--Helen Reddy
Put Your Hands Together--O'Jays

1975

I Don't Like To Sleep Alone--Paul Anka
Cut The Cake--A.W.B.
Can't Get It Out Of My Head--ELO
 
Yet sister station WRKO Boston WAS on most of those records from 1967 on, the two by James Brown being notable exceptions -- and understandable ones, given Boston's relatively small black population and problematic history of race relations. I remember reading in this forum that a lot of oddball titles WRKO played during the late '60s (Hamilton Camp's "Here's To You," O.C. Smith's "Son of Hickory Holler's Tramp," Henson Cargill's "Skip A Rope," etc.) were pushed to the other RKO stations by someone at KHJ and that all the RKO stations had to play them. But if what you're saying is true, the individual stations had a big say over most of their adds and non-adds. Right?
 
CTListener said:
Yet sister station WRKO Boston WAS on most of those records from 1967 on, the two by James Brown being notable exceptions -- and understandable ones, given Boston's relatively small black population and problematic history of race relations. I remember reading in this forum that a lot of oddball titles WRKO played during the late '60s (Hamilton Camp's "Here's To You," O.C. Smith's "Son of Hickory Holler's Tramp," Henson Cargill's "Skip A Rope," etc.) were pushed to the other RKO stations by someone at KHJ and that all the RKO stations had to play them. But if what you're saying is true, the individual stations had a big say over most of their adds and non-adds. Right?
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Right. The individual PDs decided most of the time. Occasionally, there were chainwide adds. More frequent under Paul Drew than under Drake.

Classic example of autonomy: KFRC in San Francisco (KHJ's sister station) played "The Candy Man" and "Nice To Be With You". "The Candy Man" made #2. But KFRC didn't have a KLOS to contend with. KSAN was still free-form. KLOS was hit album rock. In some ways, it out-Draked Drake.
 
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The Monkees recorded Valerie in August 1966 and it was featured on an episode of their tv series in 1967. In April, a Colgems Records promotion man took a copy of the song to KHJ so the station could have the "exclusive." (In September of 1966, KHJ had staged that elaborate "Last Train to Clarksville" promotion where 300 lucky listeners got to ride a train to Clarksville [Del Mar] and have lunch with the Monkees.) Program director Ron Jacobs said he didn't have time to see the man. The promoter then gave the record to KRLA and when Jacobs heard Valerie on 1110, he became enraged and supposedly hollered, "I will not play that record or any Monkees record on KHJ ever again!"

KRLA in 1967 had an all-request format and Valerie debuted at number one on their "Most Requested" list for April 22-28. The song remained most requested for several weeks. The Monkees then re-recorded the song and changed the title to Valleri. It was released as a single in 1968 and reached #3 on the Billboard Hot 100. But wait---there's more! When KHJ compiled a Top 300 in 1967, Valerie was #49. On the 1968 Top 300, the re-recorded version was #130 (and KHJ did not change the spelling). Was KHJ playing the song in 1968.....or did it make the Top 300 list in both of those years because all the KRLA listeners voted for it?

http://home.earthlink.net/~thebig93/blogspot/top300_1967.htm

http://home.earthlink.net/~thebig93/blogspot/top300_1968.html
 
LARadioRewind said:
The Monkees recorded Valerie in August 1966 and it was featured on an episode of their tv series in 1967. In April, a Colgems Records promotion man took a copy of the song to KHJ so the station could have the "exclusive." (In September of 1966, KHJ had staged that elaborate "Last Train to Clarksville" promotion where 300 lucky listeners got to ride a train to Clarksville [Del Mar] and have lunch with the Monkees.) Program director Ron Jacobs said he didn't have time to see the man. The promoter then gave the record to KRLA and when Jacobs heard Valerie on 1110, he became enraged and supposedly hollered, "I will not play that record or any Monkees record on KHJ ever again!"

KRLA in 1967 had an all-request format and Valerie debuted at number one on their "Most Requested" list for April 22-28. The song remained most requested for several weeks. The Monkees then re-recorded the song and changed the title to Valleri. It was released as a single in 1968 and reached #3 on the Billboard Hot 100. But wait---there's more! When KHJ compiled a Top 300 in 1967, Valerie was #49. On the 1968 Top 300, the re-recorded version was #130 (and KHJ did not change the spelling). Was KHJ playing the song in 1968.....or did it make the Top 300 list in both of those years because all the KRLA listeners voted for it?

http://home.earthlink.net/~thebig93/blogspot/top300_1967.htm

http://home.earthlink.net/~thebig93/blogspot/top300_1968.html
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Where do I start?

KHJ did play "Valleri", which was never spelled "Valerie", except by whoever typed up KHJ's Top 300 list, in 1967. It never showed up on the Boss 30 because it wasn't a single. Jacobs went on to play five more Monkees records on KHJ, passing only on the re-recorded "Valleri", which a lot of stations did that had played it the year before, "Porpoise Song" and "Tear Drop City", both of which were stiffs. "Listen To The Band" was one of Jacobs' last adds before he left KHJ.

But wait!-there's less!

It made #49 on the Top 300 of 1967 because KHJ played it, not because KRLA did. And, on the Top 300 of 1968, the misspelled record (no doubt copied over from the year before...probably by the same staffer) clearly shows the year of release as "1967". Because they didn't play the re-recorded version, ever.

As Don Barrett said on today's LARadio.com: (LARadio Rewind is meticulously prepared by Steve Thompson)
 
First, the above post is not a Rewind. Second, I know KHJ played later Monkees releases---I was merely quoting Ron Jacobs, who had said he would not play any. If KHJ played Valleri in 1967, how did they get a copy of the song? Third, not only is the title spelled Valerie on KHJ's Top 300 list, it is also spelled Valerie on the eleven consecutive KRLA Most Requested lists on which it appeared. The song debuted at number one on April 22, 1967. From there it went to 1-1-1-2-9-5-15-13-18-21-off. Fourth, do you really think think our two biggest top-40 stations in 1967 both would misspell the title of a song by one of the most popular groups of that time? Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart wrote the song and initially named it after frequent Monkees co-star Valerie Kairys. Let me repeat that name: Valerie Kairys. A link to a story about her is below. By the way, when stations began playing Valleri in 1967, Colgems Records president Don Kirshner refused to release the song as a single. Kirshner got fired for releasing A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You as a single without the consent of Columbia Pictures. After he was gone, Valleri became a single...and Michael Nesmith thought it was the band's worst song.

http://cindybin.blogspot.com/2012/07/valerie-kairys-of-monkees-tv-show.html
 
Louie Shelton was the guitarist on that Monkees song (as well as on ABC, I Want You Back, Diamond Girl,
Play Me, Last Train To Clarksville and dozens of other hits. On his own website -- http://www.louieshelton.com/Louie_Shelton/Home.html -- he spells the title Valerie. So, Michael and K.M., would either of you care to tell him he misspelled it? Or do you think the copies of the song delivered to KRLA and KHJ in 1967 did indeed show the title as Valerie?

In my own defense---because I have made quite a few errors in the past twelve years---I have to point out that "meticulous" (which is Don's word, not mine) does not mean "perfect." When I unkowingly make a mistake and someone points it out, I correct it and I thank the person who told me. I appreciate K.M. and David and Michael and Jim Hilliker and Robert O'Brien, all of whom have found errors in things I have written. I continue to learn. As Stan Laurel once said to Oliver Hardy in a movie, "You remember how dumb I used to be? Well, I'm better now."
 
Back to the sound of bossradiohits.com.

That processing is fine to me, kinda like it. Combined with the extreme stereo enhancement it is horrible! I'm too young to give a historical account but I think most people listening to music processed this way were listening to mono receivers.

This is not the original stereo mix used on the records. Heard Day in The Life. Ouch.

Listening on headphones, and damn are my ears tired. Sounds pretty good on the ol' Zenith Allegro though!

Love them jingles, nothing new here in KYNO land.

Edit to add after more time on the Zenith: Motown sounds great!
 
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