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Jay Leno and Conan- National TV
- Thread starter radioray
- Start date
TheBigA said:
But the Jay Leno specials were a different kind of beast. They had a cast and a theme, for example, the American family. SNL, similarly, has a cast or ensemble doing sketch comedy. So this kind of format will work for both time periods. The problem isn't Jay so much as transplanting The Tonight Show format to prime time.
The fact that Jay was #1 in late night suggests that we're either looking at a different kind of audience or there are more choices in prime time as opposed to late night and Jay's current show is simply not compelling enough for viewers to tune in or stay.
I definitely think Jay in prime time would have succeeded had he been given a different kind of show--either variety or something similar to his specials.
c5
I
imhomerjay
Guest
josh said:
We understand you find them boring. Of the audience available at that hour, clearly not everyone shares your view.
Carmine5 said:
Based on the interviews he did leading up to the launch, I think that was their intent. By the same token, he wanted to keep his old staff, and they were probably all stuck in a late night mindset.
It's been interesting to see how Carson Daily (whose name has been left out of this whole mess) has changed his show, from a conventional, studio-bound late night talk show, to a more MTV-styled, music-oriented documentary with concert footage. Certainly, this type of show isn't ready for prime time, but it shows how far a show can go at that hour of the night.
TheBigA said:
Yeah, and I think switching his show's format has saved it from the chopping block, as it's a much different beast than other late night talk shows.
"Different" doesn't matter if the show gets fewer viewers. As Jay and Conan found out.
I think what saved Carson from the chopping block is that this format is a whole lot easier and cheaper. They can pre-record a week's worth on one day, cut in a bunch of concert footage, and be done with it. No audience to deal with, no writers, no guests to book. This show is cheaper than Leno.
I think what saved Carson from the chopping block is that this format is a whole lot easier and cheaper. They can pre-record a week's worth on one day, cut in a bunch of concert footage, and be done with it. No audience to deal with, no writers, no guests to book. This show is cheaper than Leno.
So now what began as hopefully a win-win has become a lose-lose. They lose Conan, which they didnt want to do, and they lose a pile of money. And the real loss will come afterwards when they still have to replace the 10PM programming, and will take a loss in ratings there too. And probably still lose some affiliates in the process.
NBC screwed up bad. They took a gamble by putting Leno on at 10 and they lost. It was unfair to take Conan's show away. Jay should have been the one fired. Not Conan. Conan would have built up an audience. Jay could have gone over to a competing network and everything would have been fine.
TheBigA said:
And....on top of ALL that....putting Jay Leno back in the "Tonight Show" chair is just a temporary measure at best. After all....Leno's not getting any younger (neither are his demos, for that matter).
Is NBC expecting Leno to still be hosting when he's 89 years old ???
I actually thought putting Leno on at 10 wasn't a bad idea. It's just that it was poorly executed, and the resulting product just ended up being a warmed-over version of his "Tonght Show". A show with a heavy focus on "variety acts"....much like the old "Ed Sullivan Show" might have stood a much better chance.
As for Conan....I think he's a victim of network television's impatience. Nowadays....you have to be an instant 'hit' right out of the box. With that sort of thinking, shows like "All in the Family" and M*A*S*H would be cancelled fairly quickly in today's network TV environment.
Given some time to develop his own audience....Conan would have been just fine.
As I posted on other portions of the boards......I'm surprised that there has been no NBC affiliate out there that has chosen yet to drop "Tonight" after this debacle.
If I were an NBC affiliate whose local news ratings were literally devastated by Leno, the last thing I would want is Leno back on after my local news......if it's one thing I learned, if you fail in this business, they boot you off the air.....I would exercise the option in my affiliate agreement that allows me to refuse to broadcast any show that I felt was not appropriate. I would rather have the hour to make plenty of good local ad revenue by airing a local newscast or syndicated programming in the hour.
And if NBC threatened to rip the affiliation from me....I'd say "So be it....what have you put on the air that's good?". WHDH in Boston had the best idea to refuse to broadcast Leno.....but they backed down after NBC threatened to pull their affiliation.....I would have stood my ground.
NBC failed....but rather than simply fire Jay, they punished Conan by going back on their word and literally cheating him out of the show he waited so long to get. And if GE had any common sense they would go ahead and show Jeff Zucker the door. And if I were an affiliate, I would be demanding Zucker's head on a silver platter over this mess.
And if I were Jay, I would have gotten a lawyer and a manager and sued to get out of my contract out of respect for Conan.....
This debacle will go down as the dirtiest NBC late night mess in history....and in the end NBC will be remembered as a Late Night has-been.
If I were an NBC affiliate whose local news ratings were literally devastated by Leno, the last thing I would want is Leno back on after my local news......if it's one thing I learned, if you fail in this business, they boot you off the air.....I would exercise the option in my affiliate agreement that allows me to refuse to broadcast any show that I felt was not appropriate. I would rather have the hour to make plenty of good local ad revenue by airing a local newscast or syndicated programming in the hour.
And if NBC threatened to rip the affiliation from me....I'd say "So be it....what have you put on the air that's good?". WHDH in Boston had the best idea to refuse to broadcast Leno.....but they backed down after NBC threatened to pull their affiliation.....I would have stood my ground.
NBC failed....but rather than simply fire Jay, they punished Conan by going back on their word and literally cheating him out of the show he waited so long to get. And if GE had any common sense they would go ahead and show Jeff Zucker the door. And if I were an affiliate, I would be demanding Zucker's head on a silver platter over this mess.
And if I were Jay, I would have gotten a lawyer and a manager and sued to get out of my contract out of respect for Conan.....
This debacle will go down as the dirtiest NBC late night mess in history....and in the end NBC will be remembered as a Late Night has-been.
DToTheJ said:
In a way they did, but refused to let him go after it was rumored that he had another deal elsewhere.
To hear Leno tell the story, NBC said they didn't expect him to stay #1 until 2009. But much to their surprise, he did. However they had already promised the show to Conan. Very similar to the Walter Cronkite situation with Dan Rather. CBS was forced to promise the anchor job to Dan, and used the CBS retirement rule to get Cronkite out. But Cronkite was #1 at the time. And the retirement rule was done away with a few years later.
stdjsb25 said:
I don't think NBC is threatening anyone's affiliation. They're making this move to preserve what they have. And I'm sure they've received input from their affiliates with regards to this change. The affiliates would rather keep Leno then have him show up on a competitor. They can live without Conan, especially after 11:35.
stdjsb25 said:
Keep in mind that all of this was forced on NBC by their affiliates. Otherwise, NBC was content to leave the situation the way it was for the rest of the year. From what I can see, Conan didn't work the affiliates as hard as Leno once did. Stations felt they were better off the way things were before. What they don't understand is that they will still have a weak lead in to their 11PM news. It just won't be hosted by Leno.
Regarding Zucker, this isn't his biggest problem. NBC was in last place before this happened.
I
imhomerjay
Guest
I think they understand things aren't going to magically be fixed at 10, but they figure it's NBC's dime, and any boost is better than none. At this point, they had the leverage, so they used it to get their way. It's easy to say one would happily lose the affiliation when it's not your money...and your job...on the line. With few exceptions, it's better to be affiliated than not, and the long term picture needs to be taken into account. ABC was a disaster a couple of years ago, but some risk taking paid off, and they managed to at least turn the tide somewhat on the back of Housewives and Lost, among others.
I
imhomerjay
Guest
Power ebbs and flows, and there are some aspects where the network needs the affiliates and vice versa.
Regardless of whether this particular effort did or didn't work, the underlying problem with expensive scripted fare is still there. Much like politicians love to do, NBC and its affiliates have both managed to simply kick the can down the road a bit more. They may eat the costs for a while longer, but the rationale behind trying something new was valid--this model won't work forever.
Regardless of whether this particular effort did or didn't work, the underlying problem with expensive scripted fare is still there. Much like politicians love to do, NBC and its affiliates have both managed to simply kick the can down the road a bit more. They may eat the costs for a while longer, but the rationale behind trying something new was valid--this model won't work forever.
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