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John McCain introduces the Television Consumer Freedom Act SCH13204

willdav713 said:
whoa, I was being sarcastic, and I meant to say that millions of illegal aliens are in this country and rising every day.

That's the problem with political discussion in this country today. Too many, particularly our Talk Radio stars, think the use of sarcasm will solve the problems of our nation. All it does is make it less possible that we might work out some solutions to our challenges.


willdav713 said:
Libertarians believe in a document called the Constitution, with the Constitution comes private property rights, Would you want someone to break into your house? Well, that is what illegal aliens do, they trespass. With the Constitution comes Common Law, and isn't trespassing against Common Law?

Yes, the idea of property rights is part of the constitution. Unfortunately too many would-be Libertarians stop reading after they find that. They overlook all the parts of the Constitution that enable a working civilization by also enumerating some things that citizens need to do to make the system work.

I grew up on a farm in Texas. At certain times of the year it was labor intensive and people were encouraged and welcomed by people in this country to come in and be a part of our agriculture process. 65 years ago we were begging Congress to convert that process into a legal progress... and it hasn't been done yet. They had to cross that river on their own, they had to walk through the countryside until they found us, but when the crop season was over, my Dad would thank them for being a part of our team, our process, and then he would drive them back to the border crossing, shake their hands, and promise them that one of these days we were going to make the whole process a LEGAL process. 65 years later, Congress is still making a liar out my father every year. We didn't think of them as trespassers... we invited them.

Now, there are MORE illegal immigrants in our country that ARE NOT hispanics than there are of the South of the Border variety. Those are the people who came here bearing green cards because they were invited by a university, or invited by a corporate employer with an opening for a highly skilled worker. Again, we share part of the blame that our "guest" workers did not go home in that, again, Congress has not past legislation to deal with what is a mess because we invite people to come here, but we deal with them awkwardly when the original deal expires.


willdav713 said:
I think the issue I was bringing up was a stonewalled congress. Has anything been done lately? Has the President passed anything of principle that is working? Name one program that the President created that is working well?

Sadly, the bill won't see the light of day, because even though a liberal Republican such as John McCain drafted the bill, His allies in Congress won't bring it up to a vote, and if they do, it won't pass.

For the record, I do support his bill "The Cable Television Freedom Act."

This last paragraph of your pretty well says it all. McCain has the bill that you like. It would change how television works in this country. But, as you say, he is something of a LIBERAL Republican. If you Libertarians would learn to deal with Liberals you might could obtain several things you want.

The President doesn't pass bills. That is the duty of Congress. Once they get through arguing and pass something, it is then the opportunity of the President to give his approval (sign the thing!) and it is his duty and responsibility to implement and enforce the bill.

If you are actually curious as to whether the current President has accomplished anything, check out:

http://3chicspolitico.com/president-obamas-accomplishments/

Now, back to the topic:

If the McCain bill becomes law, does television actually become more affordable?

Is the industry that provides video programming content become stronger or become crippled because of the bill?

Earlier in the thread, there was some discussion of fairness to vendors vs. fairness to consumers. How will the McCain bill implement the intent of our Constitution... how will it do damage to Constitutional directives?
 
One thing about the blackout rule. If local TV stations are able to broadcast games that aren't sold out, that will cut the amount of money local governments make from ticket taxes and concessions. So while consumers get to watch their favorite teams for free, their local governments are losing money on the stadium, and will have to pass those costs on in increased taxes or decreased services. Sooner or later, everyone pays.
 
willdav713 said:
Libertarians believe in a document called the Constitution, with the Constitution comes private property rights, Would you want someone to break into your house? Well, that is what illegal aliens do, they trespass. With the Constitution comes Common Law, and isn't trespassing against Common Law?

I was going to try to stay out of this one but:) (and to some degree I'm being "Devil's Advocate" here)

- Isn't the libertarian position to remove obstacles to immigration? If a business owner in Kansas is willing to hire Maria, and Maria is willing to work for him for the wages & conditions offered, shouldn't they be allowed to complete the deal? Why should the deal be stalled simply because Maria was born in Honduras? Aren't the international borders artificial barriers to trade? (and is it trespassing if the guy in Kansas is willingly, indeed eagerly, inviting Maria to enter his premises?)

For the record, I do support his bill "The Cable Television Freedom Act."

- Isn't the libertarian position to allow businesses to work out their own disputes? Is it libertarian to force Business A to allow Business B to resell Business A's service without paying for it? Is it libertarian to force Business B to pay whatever Business A asks?

_________________________________________________

I'm afraid Ron & Rand Paul have a lot to answer for. Not to liberals; not to the country in general; not to their constituents. But to the Libertarian Party. They've usurped the good name of the movement, but they're about as much Libertarian as Lyndon LaRouche is a Democrat.


Interesting spelling item ignored:)
 
w9wi said:
- Isn't the libertarian position to allow businesses to work out their own disputes? Is it libertarian to force Business A to allow Business B to resell Business A's service without paying for it? Is it libertarian to force Business B to pay whatever Business A asks?

Good point. Sounds very liberal to me to take money from the pockets of private industry to make something cheaper for people. Whatever happened to the free market? Willing buyer, willing seller? If people are willing to pay $300 a month for cable, what business is it of the government to try to make it cheaper?
 
w9wi said:
willdav713 said:
Libertarians believe in a document called the Constitution, with the Constitution comes private property rights, Would you want someone to break into your house? Well, that is what illegal aliens do, they trespass. With the Constitution comes Common Law, and isn't trespassing against Common Law?

I was going to try to stay out of this one but:) (and to some degree I'm being "Devil's Advocate" here)

- Isn't the libertarian position to remove obstacles to immigration? If a business owner in Kansas is willing to hire Maria, and Maria is willing to work for him for the wages & conditions offered, shouldn't they be allowed to complete the deal? Why should the deal be stalled simply because Maria was born in Honduras? Aren't the international borders artificial barriers to trade? (and is it trespassing if the guy in Kansas is willingly, indeed eagerly, inviting Maria to enter his premises?)

For the record, I do support his bill "The Cable Television Freedom Act."

- Isn't the libertarian position to allow businesses to work out their own disputes? Is it libertarian to force Business A to allow Business B to resell Business A's service without paying for it? Is it libertarian to force Business B to pay whatever Business A asks?

_________________________________________________

You really get it! No need for me to comment. You have said it all! Thanks!

Joe
 
The problem is that the "people" do not have the same weight as the Lobbying Industiral Complex.

So is what's "Good For Business" going to trump what's good for the people?

You must ponder, is our Govt. there to serve the people, or are the people here "to serve" the Govt. and the Businesses who Lobby the Govt.

Who's the Master and who's the slave in the current system as it is currently operating???
 
TheRover said:
You must ponder, is our Govt. there to serve the people, or are the people here "to serve" the Govt. and the Businesses who Lobby the Govt.


Right now, nobody is serving anybody, because nothing is getting done.
 
TheBigA said:
TheRover said:
You must ponder, is our Govt. there to serve the people, or are the people here "to serve" the Govt. and the Businesses who Lobby the Govt.


Right now, nobody is serving anybody, because nothing is getting done.

I would personally make a distinction between "government" (all federal employees) and the Congress (you know who they are). It is the Congress who is dysfunctional at present. I know quite a few federal employees who work their butts off (generally due to shortages of one sort or another) and, of course, the military.
 
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