OK, just received the full this past week. It is as good as advertised! I know my man Bill Harmonic has often referred to Fritzen in our various chats as a young Brian Culbertson, and I think that comparison is spot on. Fritzen is destined for similar greatness, IMO. Jonathan hit another home run with this one. Another CD full of vibrant, original compositions. If you don't know Jonathan Frtizen, he will soon become a household name. I recall when I first heard "Love Birds," I said, "Wow, who is this?" When artists' music causes me to pause and ask that question, I usually do not get disappointed when I find out more and delve deeper into their music. Hard for me to pick a definitive favorite on first listen, but "This Way, That Way" with another great young talent, Darren Rahn, and "Vibrations" stand out to my ears. "Vibrations" and "Melting" are shades of early Culbertson---close your eyes and listen and tell me if you agree. Yet, Jonathan is developing his own trademark sound/vibe. All in all, another terrific release from one of the soon-to-be greats of this genre! Being a programmer is effortless when the music is this good. 8)
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Jonathan Fritzen/Diamonds
- Thread starter AC Tones
- Start date
I just acquired the entire album this week, as well. And everything you say is spot on. I'm puzzled by some of the folks on here who aren't in love with his music, although I'm not sure if I'd compare him to Brian Culbertson. To me, Culbertson is a little edgier (hard rock jazz, if there is such a thing ... LOL) while Fritzen is totally elegant and flowing in his delivery. The best comparison I can think of is a slightly updated, slightly more R & B sounding version of Jonathan Cain's "Elegance on the Catwalk," an old smooth jazz classic from somewhere around 1990. But yeah, you are 100 percent correct. This album is amazing. BTW, when do you start streaming on AudioNow?
Interstate 78 said:
I-78, I agree...that's why I mentioned "early Culberston." Reminds me of Culbertson's work before he got a little funky for my taste (mid-90s stuff---"Secrets" comes to mind). Just heard from the Audionow folks over the weekend and the line should be up and running sometime by mid-week, I have been told. I'll let you know when it is active and will post it here!
This is a great CD. I just sampled the tracks on amazon and I really like it...I'm going to download this one.
It does sound very much like Brian Culbertson. In fact, if I had heard the CD and you hadn't mentioned who it was, I would have sworn it was him.
It does sound very much like Brian Culbertson. In fact, if I had heard the CD and you hadn't mentioned who it was, I would have sworn it was him.
See, and to me this sounds like a mash-up of every smooth jazz cliche and everything that makes this music sound "old" - light touch on the keyboard, lots of grace notes, shadow vocals and go to iTunes and click on "Vibrations." How many hundreds songs have that same keyboard line (ba-da-ba-da-da-da-da-da)
and it's very formula. Of course I loved the first two Culbertson albums and i love him live but then he went litesy-noodly and the only thing I've liked since is the Come On Up CD. This does sound like an even Lite-er version of Culbertson. People start getting all excited because an artist is "young" and that's supposed to mean they are going to spice up the genre but this is late 20th century radio smooth....nothin' wrong with that if you like it. The production values and musicianship are up to par with the traditional charting keyboard artists and it isn't necessary for everyone to bring in a big dose of originality but this is getting hyped as being something it is not. It's funny but while there is all this talk about young artists it's mostly the more seasoned ones who are getting out of the smooth box and expanding the horizons. Maybe because they were around back when those horizons existed?
Cain's music flowed a lot more, his songs had forward momentum, and he played with more power, especially on his first one.
Different strokes
and it's very formula. Of course I loved the first two Culbertson albums and i love him live but then he went litesy-noodly and the only thing I've liked since is the Come On Up CD. This does sound like an even Lite-er version of Culbertson. People start getting all excited because an artist is "young" and that's supposed to mean they are going to spice up the genre but this is late 20th century radio smooth....nothin' wrong with that if you like it. The production values and musicianship are up to par with the traditional charting keyboard artists and it isn't necessary for everyone to bring in a big dose of originality but this is getting hyped as being something it is not. It's funny but while there is all this talk about young artists it's mostly the more seasoned ones who are getting out of the smooth box and expanding the horizons. Maybe because they were around back when those horizons existed?
Cain's music flowed a lot more, his songs had forward momentum, and he played with more power, especially on his first one.
Different strokes
Not that anybody cares but I bought this CD(download on Itunes) after I read everybodies comments and found it very formula and not very original. This format needs fresh talent but I don't find this new and exciting. I can't tell if he's really talented. His playing has no oroginality to it. It may work for stations looking for the formula but as far as a new and exciting voice I just don't hear it
I see terms like "formula" and "no originality" often thrown out here when folks think a particular offering is too mellow sounding for their tastes. I guess my question is, what's wrong with mid-tempo, melodic music? In my mind, that's radio-friendly and what base listeners were originally attracted to. It makes for good listening, at least for me it does. What exactly are you guys looking for? Sometimes the musical tastes on this board are so broad and unpredictable, I'm not sure what to think. It makes a programmer want to pull his hair out and say, "How in the heck can I put together a playlist to keep these guys tuned in without it sounding like a disjointed Jack FM-version of Smooth Jazz, funk, and R&B?
FWIW, here is MY definition of formula, and it obviously differs from yours. "Formula" for me is the sleepy brass (sax and trumpet) CDs of late, by some big names at that, that are riddled with cover tunes. If you want to look at music that brought the genre down, Jonathan Fritzen's style is not a good example, IMO. It's crossover vocals, cover tunes, and sleepy brass CDs with no vibe. Darren Rahn's music (a young artist by relative terms), is FAR from sleepy or "formula" in my mind. If originality is the issue here, what's more original than music that is written, composed, and performed by the artist? It sure beats these tribute CDs to late R&B and Pop artists, and live CDs compiled of overplayed tunes from artists who composed the music 20 years ago.
FWIW, here is MY definition of formula, and it obviously differs from yours. "Formula" for me is the sleepy brass (sax and trumpet) CDs of late, by some big names at that, that are riddled with cover tunes. If you want to look at music that brought the genre down, Jonathan Fritzen's style is not a good example, IMO. It's crossover vocals, cover tunes, and sleepy brass CDs with no vibe. Darren Rahn's music (a young artist by relative terms), is FAR from sleepy or "formula" in my mind. If originality is the issue here, what's more original than music that is written, composed, and performed by the artist? It sure beats these tribute CDs to late R&B and Pop artists, and live CDs compiled of overplayed tunes from artists who composed the music 20 years ago.
Not an expert on formula, my formula is what exists in my ears. But with that said, I gave the new Kenny G a spin for s_ _ t's and giggles. Yup loaded with formula in my opinion, and it don't fit my ears. Get this, he even thanks Alan Kepler in the liner notes for keeping smooth jazz alive. (Probably the most important part of the formula?) He must have written the liner notes 10 years ago.
Nock
Nock
Nock said:I still can't get past the cover
Nock
So the guy looks like a metrosexual version of Joaquin Phoenix!!! Get over it!! ;D Very well said, though. What sounds good to my ears may well sound like "formula" or garbage to others, and vice-versa. And I have to live with that and not take it personally. But it is very frustrating sometimes as a programmer trying to push the right buttons and accurately predict what listeners would enjoy hearing based on my overall programming strategy. My station is a reflection of my musical taste, and I make no bones about that. While I am always open to suggestions and criticism, the reality is that my station has a definite "feel" to it and it resonates with my core listeners, although I will stop well short of calling it "EZ." But I do prefer melodic tunes with structure and a pleasing vibe/beat/groove, and I think Fritzen's latest (and all of his music to date) fits the bill for me. It is very hard for me to back something from Fritzen up with an edgy, bluesy cut from Jeff Golub or a hardcore funk/R&B-influenced tune from someone else. It would be hard for me even to find an adequate transitional cut without it still sounding out of place. I love Thom Rotella's offerings from the NAC days and spin a ton of it, but I did not spin one tune from his latest CD. Way too bluesy for my taste. It just won't work on my station---too harsh a transition for my listeners. That's another reason why I rarely spin live cuts from CDs unless they blow me away...if my listeners want live music, they'll go see a show. Typically, there is way too much improvisation, and lengthy drum or popping bass solos that are not radio-friendly in my mind.
I am glad this thread has sparked a spirited and passionate debate, and it brings to light the challenges programmers face in putting together a large playlist that "works" for most listeners who call themselves fans of Smooth Jazz music.
As for Kenny G's latest, let's put it this way. "G Walkin'" has the best chance of hanging around in my rotation for a spell, and that is not saying much.
M
majaman78
Guest
Well I just heard "Melting" for the first time and thought it had a nice enough vibe for me to take notice and go into the other room where my PC is located to find out what was playing.
Gotta play some downtempo tracks, otherwise it all starts to sound all the same.
btw I love new tunes like this one. Nice and original and not a cover.
Sometimes I think a few of the posters on these boards really only want to hear AAA and are not true fans of the smooth jazz format.
NOCK: I'll take the Jazzmasters V cover over the Fritzen one, though! ;D
Gotta play some downtempo tracks, otherwise it all starts to sound all the same.
btw I love new tunes like this one. Nice and original and not a cover.
Sometimes I think a few of the posters on these boards really only want to hear AAA and are not true fans of the smooth jazz format.
NOCK: I'll take the Jazzmasters V cover over the Fritzen one, though! ;D
M
majaman78
Guest
AC Tones said:
At least someone around here "gets it". :
btw A.C. big congrats on the .wav's 2 year anniversary. Heard as many good tracks played in those 2 years on your station than anywhere else during the last 10 years combined.
Keep up the great work!
A song can be in any tempo and be great. When I said Formula I meant that
1-If you put on different CDs by some of these artists they use the same chord structure and same melodic lines. It seems like many of the songs on this CD has the same chord structures and melody lines that have been played in the SJ format for years. I found Jonathans CD no different, I think that many of these CDs don't have real A&R help that helps the artist refine their music and help them create a path of originality and uniqueness that will keep them around for along period of time. It's also having command of the musical language and the ability to create unique and lasting melodies. That to me is what it is about. Believe me I want to see this music last and regenerate and find it's way back.
I will agree about Kenny G's new Cd-It sounds like he phoned it in
1-If you put on different CDs by some of these artists they use the same chord structure and same melodic lines. It seems like many of the songs on this CD has the same chord structures and melody lines that have been played in the SJ format for years. I found Jonathans CD no different, I think that many of these CDs don't have real A&R help that helps the artist refine their music and help them create a path of originality and uniqueness that will keep them around for along period of time. It's also having command of the musical language and the ability to create unique and lasting melodies. That to me is what it is about. Believe me I want to see this music last and regenerate and find it's way back.
I will agree about Kenny G's new Cd-It sounds like he phoned it in
M
majaman78
Guest
producer57 said:
When I hear Country I believe this is true.
When I hear AAA I believe this is true
When I hear rock I believe this is true
When I hear rap (if you consider that garbage music) I believe this is true
When I hear classical I believe this is true
So your analysis pertains only to smooth jazz and none of these other formats?
What's the point? Just admit you don't care for the format.
It's really that simple.
I am with majaman78 on this one. I am not an artist---never played an instrument in my life. My perspective is that of a listener and fan of this genre for the last 25 years on radio and at live events. So I am not so critical of one's music because it sounds too much like the artist's previous work. In my mind, that's what gives artists a trademark, distinct sound. As long as it is pleasing to your ears as a listener, in the end, is that not what really matters? Peter White has his trademark sound, as does Richard Elliot, Brian Culbertson, and Paul Hardcastle. You know it's them within the first 10 seconds of their songs. But I would argue that no four solo artists have done more for their respective genre in the studio and on stage over the last 15-20 years than these guys. And you know why? They consistently write and compose CDs that are deep with radio-friendly cuts that have an enormous shelf life. Their early work sounds as good on the radio today as it did in the early 90s. Has some of their stuff been overplayed? Absolutely. But don't blame the artists for that. Blame the programmers who were cut from BA's cloth. I am cautious to handle their overplayed tunes with care (PW's "Dreamwalk, RE's "Crush", etc.), and prefer to give more airplay to more deep cuts like PW's "Baby Steps" and "Confidential", and BC's "Forbidden Love." Say what you want about Fritzen. His CDs have great depth (a number of usable cuts) and diversity in tempo, which works great for my programming logic. I love radio-friendly tunes and changing pace. Majaman78 brings up a great point. Changing pace with a nice downtempo cut, a Chill tune, or a NAC vocal can keep a contemporary instrumental playlist fresh for listeners, and is critical for me as a programmer. Radio-friendly NEED NOT be "formula." Expand playlists with radio-friendly tunes, change pace, and avoid overplayed instrumentals and A/C vocals. That's my "formula."
Nock said:
OT, but here is a postscript to your 10-year old liner note point, Nock. I just received my copy of Wine & Jazz magazine in the mail, and you will be interested to know that the aforementioned Mr. Kepler authors a piece in the "Jazz On Jazz" section. In it, in response to the decline of the format on terrestrial radio, he states, and I quote, "Some speculate that radio's goliath companies are responsible...Some have even blamed companies like ours...In fact, few recall that the smooth jazz format almost didn't make it past its infancy. In 1992, the radio format nearly disappeared from all of the major markets due to low ratings. Adjustments were made and a less "pure" mix of Smooth Jazz (we added in artists like Stevie Wonder, Luther Vandross, Marvin Gaye and even Mariah Carey) caused the format to grow...and outrank more popular mainstream formats for well over 15 years." Talk about someone living in the past--straight from the mouth of the Founding Father of "formula" himself. I suspect we were doing QUITE a bit better in 1992 than we're doing now.
But it gets better. Mr. Kepler adds, "Twenty-plus years into the format, our audience of baby-boomers (now 50-64 year olds)...is now considered too old. The fact is this group is an amazing audience for anyone selling a product because we boast high income and education levels." Well, at least we finally agree on something. Funny thing is, I distinctly recall being flamed on this very forum by Mr. K's corporate radio cronies for making this very assertion well over a year ago (i.e., that both younger AND older demos represent an opportunity for this format). Things that make you go, "Hmmmmm." ;D
I tried to listen to the Kenny G...really tried. But the core issues with it are that the way he plays soprano makes my head hurt and my dog bark...all those high thin notes. The other big issue is that there are no live musicians on it. It's KG then all the rest was programmed by Walter A. and there is a string contractor but the string arrangements sound programmed too. Thought the big fat book of liner notes was a tad self-indulgent. Chieli Minucci practically wrote a book on the same amount of pages..now that is how to use space!
It's not Just The SJ Format-This is just a SJ Forum so I didn't bring up country etc. I am of the ilk that if the word Jazz (no matter what kind of Jazz)is attached to it it has to be of a higher musical calling.
I have had a number of Hits of SJ radio and always tried to be different than what BA was recommending. That served me well and didn't serve me well. I've been in these trenches for many years so don't get into this hate the format thing with me. I hate what it was turned into not what it was.
I was driving home one night and listening to watercolors on XM-I heard a killer track I looked at The radio and it was Acoustic Alchemy. I went home and looked for it on Itunes and found it-The track was from 1993-before the format was taken over-It proved my point about the creativity of the music and what airplay the artists were getting pre 1996
I have had a number of Hits of SJ radio and always tried to be different than what BA was recommending. That served me well and didn't serve me well. I've been in these trenches for many years so don't get into this hate the format thing with me. I hate what it was turned into not what it was.
I was driving home one night and listening to watercolors on XM-I heard a killer track I looked at The radio and it was Acoustic Alchemy. I went home and looked for it on Itunes and found it-The track was from 1993-before the format was taken over-It proved my point about the creativity of the music and what airplay the artists were getting pre 1996
M
majaman78
Guest
AnotherCat said:
I actually thought Kenny G's last effort with "Sax-A-Loco" was pretty decent.
I sampled his new CD and in a word it's dreadful. It's like he gave up or something, although I always respected Kenny telling Arista Records to take a hike when they only wanted him to record cover tunes.
Does he still have a show on BA? Because he must have some ulterior motive....giving thanks to Kepler for "saving" smooth jazz is like thanking BP for "saving" the Gulf.
I too actually gave props to kenny on his last Cd. he is capable of playing well and he has the money to hire whoever he wants-This Cd is absolutely the worst effort I have heard from him. It's like he just phoned it in. The AK Thank you just shows you how far removed some of these people are. he is wealthy beyond wealthy and can do whatever he wants to do-I don't get it as well
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