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Jonathan Fritzen/Diamonds
- Thread starter AC Tones
- Start date
When I am scheduling music for the show I still find myself drawn to the pre 1996 music amd really have to be careful about that, because the genre did do a big 180 that year. Which I wrote about here http://www.smoothviews.com/perspectives.htm in a piece called Bringing Back The Good Stuff because a good amount of artists are starting to bring back a lot of the elements that were forbidden in the Smooth Jazz format from '96 - about last year. I don't trust a lot of the songs that have the traditional smooth jazz sound because they were running listeners off, especially the ones under 45..that ended up being validated when listeners stared wandering off. There are some strong songs on those smooth-era CDs but they usually are not the ones that were BA approved. I do feel like JF's CD is basically a synthesis of what has already been done by other Lite piano artists...there is room for EZ, but I would be wary of playing it if you target younger listeners.
You nailed it-I tell younger players all the time don't target the older audience-bring the music to a younger crowd-You don't have to worry about commercial radio-You have to worry about creating new fans
producer57 said:
It's all well and good to "target" a younger audience. I agree that bringing younger listeners into this format will be beneficial for all parties involved. But I have attended and continue to attend plenty of shows, and I am just not seeing it. Not even close. At 41 and 42 respectfully, my wife and I almost without exception are the youngest fans in the crowd. Sure, some of these "free" festivals with local vendors/restauranteurs/activities might be an exception. But the 45+ crowd still "pays the bills" for this genre. Getting younger listeners onboard will come at a price---further alienating base listeners who have been jilted and jaded for 15 years. I just don't think the format can handle that when it is barely hanging on by a thread. My apologies for stating the obvious, but this is a dangerous time for this format. Not because I think the music stinks. To the contrary, the new music produced over the last 12-18 months has been fantastic. But the problem is, both listeners and advertisers are slow to embrace Internet broadcasters. And here's why. The BA presentation drove away the most passionate, diehard listeners, and brought in more apathetic, lazy listeners who tolerated a garbage product. When their so-called "favorite" FM station flipped, instead of being fed up and putting forth the effort to find other viable outlets on the Internet, they either started listening to the new format on the same FM frequency or moved down the dial to the second-favorite station.
As a hobbyist, I do not get obsessed with numbers. If I am hitting the spot with my loyal listeners (who show their appreciation through e-mails or donating to the station), that's all that matters to me. That said, that doesn't mean I am not curious about how I stack up with the big boys on the Internet. Here's the reality, gang. UK's Sky FM Smooth Jazz, considered by their peers as the standard by which Internet broadcasters are measured for this format, typically at peak hours have 3000-4000 listeners online worldwide at any given time, 3X the number of their nearest distant competitor. Trust me, I would love to have those kind of numbers, even though I would never be able to afford the bandwidth to maintain them. But my point is, for as successful as Sky FM is in relative terms, 3000-4000 listeners is not going to get it done folks. Combine that with the fact that there are SO MANY choices for listeners on the Internet, it even makes my head spin, and I like to think I know a little something about this music. Bill Harmonic, who I consider a friend, mentor, and someone I have tremendous respect for once said on this forum, and I quote, "Choices KILL." I didn't want to believe it then, but I believe it now. And if Internet broadcasters don't get the memo soon and find ways to cross-promote, they are destined to suffer the same fate as their terrestrial radio big brothers.
In light of these challenges, I steadfastly believe that the older demo should NOT be ignored, and will continue to represent the base demo of this format for the immediate future, and beyond. I can tell you my older listeners, which have self-proclaimed that they represented the base in the early 90s, despised BA's presentation, which was familiar and overplayed EZ with Soft A/C and crossover vocals, the worst possible combination. Generally speaking, they arguably represent the most loyal and passionate listeners I have, with VERY few exceptions.
Thanks for posting about this AC, I have never heard of him before here. I went to amazon and listen to the samples, they sound really good. I'm not crazy about the cover either. 
Kenny lastest album, is very bad, can't disagree with some of you. Haven't been a big of a fan him much anyway though. Kenny G thanking Allen Kelper for helping keep smooth jazz alive, is a joke. (I want some of what he is taking ) Maybe they both should look around. I reckon that (thanking him) must be like, thanks for keeping me on the (Smooth Jazz) Network, boss. : Which is probably where this album along with the overplayed and "garbage" of smooth jazz will be played at.
Like many of you have stated, there are lots of great music out there these days in the smooth jazz format. AC kinda sum up a great point " The BA presentation drove away the most passionate, diehard listeners, and brought in more apathetic, lazy listeners who tolerated a garbage product. When their so-called "favorite" FM station flipped, instead of being fed up and putting forth the effort to find other viable outlets on the Internet, they either started listening to the new format on the same FM frequency or moved down the dial to the second-favorite station."
I know what would like to see, probably won't happen though, is, instead of a lot of these television shows letting artists like Lady Gaga, Black Eyes Peas, and other today hot artists perform. Let some of our (smooth jazz) best artists get out there and get notice more. I believe, once folks see them, they would want to find out more them, listen to their music, and mostly importantly become fans.
Just some of my .02 cents.
Kenny lastest album, is very bad, can't disagree with some of you. Haven't been a big of a fan him much anyway though. Kenny G thanking Allen Kelper for helping keep smooth jazz alive, is a joke. (I want some of what he is taking
) Maybe they both should look around. I reckon that (thanking him) must be like, thanks for keeping me on the (Smooth Jazz) Network, boss. : Which is probably where this album along with the overplayed and "garbage" of smooth jazz will be played at.Like many of you have stated, there are lots of great music out there these days in the smooth jazz format. AC kinda sum up a great point " The BA presentation drove away the most passionate, diehard listeners, and brought in more apathetic, lazy listeners who tolerated a garbage product. When their so-called "favorite" FM station flipped, instead of being fed up and putting forth the effort to find other viable outlets on the Internet, they either started listening to the new format on the same FM frequency or moved down the dial to the second-favorite station."
I know what would like to see, probably won't happen though, is, instead of a lot of these television shows letting artists like Lady Gaga, Black Eyes Peas, and other today hot artists perform. Let some of our (smooth jazz) best artists get out there and get notice more. I believe, once folks see them, they would want to find out more them, listen to their music, and mostly importantly become fans.
Just some of my .02 cents.
Now see, different markets, different faces. Where I am the live shows draw people mostly in their mid 20s - mid 40s and they go wild over the live version of the way this music sounds. They weren't listening to the BA affiliate we had here but now that the free beach shows are sponsored by an A/C we are getting the 25-44 family crowd and party crowd...same with Jacksonville Jazz festival. here are pics of jax crowds: http://www.facebook.com/#!/album.php?aid=2035393&id=1215538567
I've posted this before but this is us too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYknCKmlH68 ..when we had the BA station they got in the car after say, Paul Taylor or Jeff Golub, and turned on the radio to the station that had banners up at the event and heard an easy listening version of an old Commodores song. They were lost for good.
the bread and butter here is these people and they want melody and momentum...for that matter so do the 45-64s...they grew up with Skynyrd and the Allmans, not Lawrence Welk (that was our parents! ) Different market, different musical history, I guess.
I've posted this before but this is us too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYknCKmlH68 ..when we had the BA station they got in the car after say, Paul Taylor or Jeff Golub, and turned on the radio to the station that had banners up at the event and heard an easy listening version of an old Commodores song. They were lost for good.
the bread and butter here is these people and they want melody and momentum...for that matter so do the 45-64s...they grew up with Skynyrd and the Allmans, not Lawrence Welk (that was our parents!
) Different market, different musical history, I guess.I do this just a bit differently. It's either good or bad. Good gets played and bad doesn't. It also depends on the situation. What flips my switch probably doesn turn you on. What my experience has taught me may not be the same path for you. What I do on my show is far diffferent from what I would do if I was back in the 24/7-365 gig that AC is doing on the Wav. Nock's doing a different thing and Cat is doing her uptempo thing and all of it is simply all right. I'm also not all that worried about attracting younger or older listeners but just keeping the thing alive and moving forward. How about just attracting listeners? What made this music strong is that we started out with many diverse directions and one thing worked here while something else worked there. We're back to that and I enjoy the conversation. The only thing I'm doing that many of you aren't is trying to make a living off my show. Take it to black and white and your parameters and thought process will change. It ain't going swing if it doesn't swing green($). By the way, the Kenny G is bad (and I liked the one before) and the good cuts I'm playing off of Jonathan's CD are Melting and Fly Away with Jessy J. They fit what I'm doing. I'm also picking two off the new Culbertson that fit what I'm doing. Soft-hard, old-new, down tempo-up tempo... whatever floats your boat. I have a great deal of respect, especially in this day and age for those who are doing it (both broadcasters and artists) and a former President said it best...
"It’s not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man actually in the ring". – Theodore Roosevelt
"It’s not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man actually in the ring". – Theodore Roosevelt
I was at Jacksonville this year. You should mention that it is a diverse festival-Maceo Parker, Spanish Harlem Orchestra Ledisi were part of a very diverse festival. I know many contemporary jazz artists who are young-I mean in their Mid 20's into 30's. They need to attract an audience of their age group as well as the core audience. if the audience continues to age and not grow the genre of music will disappear. The other thing is I have gone now to no less than 50 artists and musicians in the genre. I have asked them (this has been a 3 year timeline) " Do you like being called A Smooth Jazz Artist-There were only 2 artists that I have met that didn't mind it. The answer I always get is-I love the music I play but I do not like the term Smooth-As the radio format goes it's time to change the name back to contemporary jazz and bring more artists into the genre
next march there will be The Oasis Contemporary jazz Awards from march 10-13 in San Diego. This is a good place to start
JMHO
next march there will be The Oasis Contemporary jazz Awards from march 10-13 in San Diego. This is a good place to start
JMHO
Being in a block program environment, I get to witness interesting listening patterns based on phone calls. Guy before me does a very good alternative AAA for lack of a better description and guy that follows me plays all kind of live concert stuff very rare to find. What is interesting is the listeners DO move on to the next show. Lot of calls happen when shows transition. My own listeners tell me they tune in and listen before and after my show. I am fortunate --- I think --- being on a college frequency. Young listeners are a given. I also get the music experts as they are the ones that search out the music (the non comm portion of the dial) they want to hear. (Probably like all of us) I have said it before, what I am doing is attracting my kids high school buddies to my parents at age 73. I have my "formula" (had to throw that in) but also don't have to rely on ratings. I just know folks are listening because they continue to tell me and I meet new folks every show. Kenny G isn't getting it done. In fact Kenny G is synonymous with Smooth. Or Dental Music or Elevator Music. In fact if I actually found a cut I would play, might have been a first by G on a station that has been around almost 60 years. So AC going to have to disagree on the focus on the older part of the demo. We ain't getting any younger and we need to leave this stuff in good shape for the next group to carry the torch. I just tweaked my show (formula ) based on what I have seen getting a rise out of the listeners. Let's see if you can pick it out? BTW, Fritzen is a Culbertson rip off. We do not need any more of those. Yeah I am playing a couple of his cut but we need new and inventive musicians to help re define the music we all love. I have tripped upon some very interesting unknowns lately each with "their" sound. Cheili Minucci has figured out what to do, so has Standring, Alan Hewitt just to name a few in my opinion. AC this is not to be taken as a "flame" just an opinion.
All in good fun!
Nock
) based on what I have seen getting a rise out of the listeners. Let's see if you can pick it out? BTW, Fritzen is a Culbertson rip off. We do not need any more of those. Yeah I am playing a couple of his cut but we need new and inventive musicians to help re define the music we all love. I have tripped upon some very interesting unknowns lately each with "their" sound. Cheili Minucci has figured out what to do, so has Standring, Alan Hewitt just to name a few in my opinion. AC this is not to be taken as a "flame" just an opinion.All in good fun!
Nock
I concede that the venues I typically attend, Ramshead in Annapolis, The Lyric and Mechanic Theaters in Baltimore, National Theater in DC, The Birchmere in Alexandria, as well as major festivals like Berks in PA, Capital Jazz in MD, and Rehoboth Beach in DE tend to attract an affluent, older crowd without question. It probably doesn't help that the Washington metropolitan area has one of the highest cost of living indices in the country. It goes without saying, but it's not cheap to attend these shows, probably because the market here can support it. I suspect if they had more "free" shows here, you'd have to beat people off with sticks to keep them away, because they love their contemporary jazz in this area and are very knowledgeable about the talent.
As for the Contemporary versus Smooth Jazz monicker, we've had this discussion plenty of times here before. The shame is, Smooth Jazz does roll off the tongue much better than Contemporary Jazz or some of the alternative suggestions I have read. Had not so much negativity/stigma been attached to the format name due to its presentation over the last 15 years, I think we would have been fine. I never thought the problem was with the name---it was with the programming/music that listeners associated with it.
As for younger listeners, I agree with you guys in principle, trust me I do. Who wouldn't want to have them? But I am unwilling to compromise my core beliefs/strategy as a programmer and longtime FAN/LISTENER of this music, and betray the guys who tune me in from 10-14 hours a day to get younger listeners. It is well known this format historically has never been a huge moneymaker or ratings fetcher, despite the propaganda Kepler peddled in the Wine and Jazz article. Say what you want to say about Jones Radio Networks' approach (some have criticized them for being too EZ-sounding), but their affiliates had a small, passionate, BUT consistent following. While I would love to monetize my operation one day like Bill has done with his, at this point I am not prepared to turn my back on the guys who have supported me here in this forum, privately through e-mails, or through their generous donations to the station.
As for the Contemporary versus Smooth Jazz monicker, we've had this discussion plenty of times here before. The shame is, Smooth Jazz does roll off the tongue much better than Contemporary Jazz or some of the alternative suggestions I have read. Had not so much negativity/stigma been attached to the format name due to its presentation over the last 15 years, I think we would have been fine. I never thought the problem was with the name---it was with the programming/music that listeners associated with it.
As for younger listeners, I agree with you guys in principle, trust me I do. Who wouldn't want to have them? But I am unwilling to compromise my core beliefs/strategy as a programmer and longtime FAN/LISTENER of this music, and betray the guys who tune me in from 10-14 hours a day to get younger listeners. It is well known this format historically has never been a huge moneymaker or ratings fetcher, despite the propaganda Kepler peddled in the Wine and Jazz article. Say what you want to say about Jones Radio Networks' approach (some have criticized them for being too EZ-sounding), but their affiliates had a small, passionate, BUT consistent following. While I would love to monetize my operation one day like Bill has done with his, at this point I am not prepared to turn my back on the guys who have supported me here in this forum, privately through e-mails, or through their generous donations to the station.
First, personally, I think what Bill is doing is both brilliant and wonderful. He is using music to create an experience. The way he selects and sequences his songs gets inside your head and that is what we have been missing - human beings using this musi to create an experience for the listener by combining their ears and instincts with knowing who your audience is - something you learn from combining formal research with actually getting out and talking to people and observing them (right down to lurking so you can overhear their conversations). It's different from what I do in terms of context (different vibe/energy level and he is syndicated, we are market specific) but very similar in terms of intention.
Our big events - the Jacksonville Jazz Festival and the Jacksonville Beach summer series - are free and are in heavily trafficed public areas (downtown and beachside). That may be the reason, besides the average age in the market and the fact that it is a middle class/family oriented area- that our events attract a younger more "real people" crowd. This market has always had a lot of free events which has drawn a different type of listener into the music than you would find in an area with costly ticketed concerts or festivals. The downside of this is that with all the freebies people are less willing to go to paid events. The upside - a large segment of people who would not seek out this music are exposed to it and fall in love with it. This does not mean that the 50+ crowd is not coming..they are there too...but it's a different kind of fiftysomethings who grew up somewhere between the Allman Brothers and Earth, Wind and Fire..they still want to get up and get down
That is just a difference in market composition and how the music is exposed but it does illustrate the fact that this music reaches (and has the potential to reach) a much wider audience when it is presented in a way they can relate too.
Our big events - the Jacksonville Jazz Festival and the Jacksonville Beach summer series - are free and are in heavily trafficed public areas (downtown and beachside). That may be the reason, besides the average age in the market and the fact that it is a middle class/family oriented area- that our events attract a younger more "real people" crowd. This market has always had a lot of free events which has drawn a different type of listener into the music than you would find in an area with costly ticketed concerts or festivals. The downside of this is that with all the freebies people are less willing to go to paid events. The upside - a large segment of people who would not seek out this music are exposed to it and fall in love with it. This does not mean that the 50+ crowd is not coming..they are there too...but it's a different kind of fiftysomethings who grew up somewhere between the Allman Brothers and Earth, Wind and Fire..they still want to get up and get down
That is just a difference in market composition and how the music is exposed but it does illustrate the fact that this music reaches (and has the potential to reach) a much wider audience when it is presented in a way they can relate too.
Cat...
I'm not worthy but thank you so much for the kind words. Just trying to make it happen like you, AC, Nock and the rest of the panel. I've learned so much from all of you. I appreciate the chance to grow and I'm grateful for the opportunity.
I'm not worthy but thank you so much for the kind words. Just trying to make it happen like you, AC, Nock and the rest of the panel. I've learned so much from all of you. I appreciate the chance to grow and I'm grateful for the opportunity.
Bill, you and David Lucken who does an Electic mix show called Electro Lounge on our local public station both illustrate how the artistry of putting music mixes together enhances the artistry that went into creating the music. People "get" this too when they hear it but it's a subiminal thing that cannot be measured by standard research studies (it is impossible to quantify emotion or feelings) so it is extremely undervalued.
I just got the new Oli Silk "single" and feel the same way about it. Almost fell asleep driving to work! My childhood piano lessons fail me here as far as terminology but that thing where you hit a key lightly then slide it to the note you are actually playing drives me nuts, especially when overdone and done so Lite-ly. I think that's why I don't enjoy most "smooth jazz" piano but do enjoy lots of the so-called New Age pianists - Jim Brickman, Michael Gettel, Suzanne Ciani, Mark Sloniker, etc - when it comes to mellow music...they don't do that.
I just got the new Oli Silk "single" and feel the same way about it. Almost fell asleep driving to work! My childhood piano lessons fail me here as far as terminology but that thing where you hit a key lightly then slide it to the note you are actually playing drives me nuts, especially when overdone and done so Lite-ly. I think that's why I don't enjoy most "smooth jazz" piano but do enjoy lots of the so-called New Age pianists - Jim Brickman, Michael Gettel, Suzanne Ciani, Mark Sloniker, etc - when it comes to mellow music...they don't do that.
M
majaman78
Guest
AnotherCat said:
I used to listen to Electro Lounge on WJCT quite frequently until one night I heard him play the entire Allman Brothers Live At Fillmore East LP.
Never tuned in again.
Was basically a potporri of tunes ranging from the likes of Simon and Garfunkel to chill and basically remined me of college radio where the program had no real structure. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
There are a lot of great piano players to take the lead with-Joe sample being one of them. he understands the whole dynamic of melody being commercial yet having some creativity and bite to the music. You always have to learn from someone who knows more than you. A master is amaster
Joe Sample, obviously..most smooth jazz payers seem to be taking more of a clue from Ferrante and Teischer (Sp?) and Roger williams
Now here's how to do keyboards. Jay Rowe with Chieli Minucci at JavaJazz...solo starts at about 7:00
http://www.chielimusic.com/index2010.htm Rowe needs to do what Minucci and Navarro - the main guys he gigs with - have done and put out a CD that sounds like himself
Check out his song "End of Summer" too...it's brilliant and he said it was influenced by the Gin Blossoms - one of my fave 90s bands.
http://www.chielimusic.com/index2010.htm Rowe needs to do what Minucci and Navarro - the main guys he gigs with - have done and put out a CD that sounds like himself
Check out his song "End of Summer" too...it's brilliant and he said it was influenced by the Gin Blossoms - one of my fave 90s bands.
M
majaman78
Guest
Jonathan Fritzen's "Diamonds" as far as listening to all of the tracks I 've heard is a straight A project.
ANY smooth jazz fan trashing CD this is not a fan of the format, period.
BETTER than his previous project VIP.
Just a great CD with a tremendous vibe.
Thank god for artists like Jonathan Fritzen!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With at least 4 great tracks, this is my personal BEST selection for smooth jazz CD for 2010 (so far LOL!!).
ANY smooth jazz fan trashing CD this is not a fan of the format, period.
BETTER than his previous project VIP.
Just a great CD with a tremendous vibe.
Thank god for artists like Jonathan Fritzen!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With at least 4 great tracks, this is my personal BEST selection for smooth jazz CD for 2010 (so far LOL!!).
OK..I'll fess up. I love contemporary instrumental music, contemporary jazz, pop instrumental, adult alternative instrumental, all very much. easy listening/quiet storm smooth jazz not so much and the "fomat" not at all. On third listen this doesn't seem so bad and we put two trax on the show that will show up mostly during the first hour which is the most mellow. I still cant listen to it straight through, especially while driving or operating heavy machinery and I think part of that is because it's almost all programmed and to me programmed music is starting to sound all alike.. but then again, you're right. I'm not a smooth jazz person...
and I think part of that is because it's almost all programmed and to me programmed music is starting to sound all alike.. but then again, you're right. I'm not a smooth jazz person...Two things that were just said
It's not so Bad
I'm not a SJ person
You are being too kind to this CD.Does being a SJ person mean you are willing to settle for the bar being lowered. Lets put this CD in comparison to another SJ CD by another piano player-Brian Simpson. He has played with Dave Koz for years and has 2 CDs out that I'm aware of. When you listen to Brian however you hear a pianist who has command of the piano and even though it is smooth jazz his ideas are thoughtful and well executed. I personally hear nothing on Mr Fritzen's Cd that comes close to that. I will stay by original statement that the writing and playing on this CD is nothing special.
I'm supposed to convince myself to like this because someone said I'm wrong with my original statement? You don't have to be a SJ person to like music that feels and sounds right.
It's not so Bad
I'm not a SJ person
You are being too kind to this CD.Does being a SJ person mean you are willing to settle for the bar being lowered. Lets put this CD in comparison to another SJ CD by another piano player-Brian Simpson. He has played with Dave Koz for years and has 2 CDs out that I'm aware of. When you listen to Brian however you hear a pianist who has command of the piano and even though it is smooth jazz his ideas are thoughtful and well executed. I personally hear nothing on Mr Fritzen's Cd that comes close to that. I will stay by original statement that the writing and playing on this CD is nothing special.
I'm supposed to convince myself to like this because someone said I'm wrong with my original statement? You don't have to be a SJ person to like music that feels and sounds right.
- Status